Looking for advice on Hormone Problems due to Antidepressants
11-01-2007 12:46 AM
Looking for advice on Hormone Problems due to Antidepressants
Hey guys, sorry to be yet another case to ask for help, but I decided that it would probably be better just to ask for help than to continue confusing myself with more hours of reading. I greatly appreciate all replies.
I just started seeing two doctors. One is from BodyLogicMD.com, he is a hormone doctor and also works with the adrenals. The other is from theElementsOfHealth.com. He is chiropractic doctor and leans more towards natural healing and is working to get my nervous system under control.
Build: Slim, with a fair amount of fat around my waist
Diet: Has always been great (hardly ever anything bad, no smoking, alcohol, etc)
Symptoms: total loss of penile sensation, libido, erections, insomnia, wake up during the night, extreme fatigue, burning eyes and recurring infections, stiff neck/shoulders, depression (80% fixed), low back pain, tinnitus, get sick constantly, zinc deficiency (white spots on nails).
I took a general blood test in May that showed a few things wrong:
- Testosterone = 4.8 (2.5 to 11.5)
- Free Testosterone = 14.25 (9.00 to 47.00)
- Thyroxine FT4 = 2.1 (supposed to be 0.8 - 1.6)
- WBC = 4.4 (4.0 to 10.6)
Next, I took a saliva test on August 27th. The most noticeable was the super high DHEAS and morning cortisol:
- Estradiol (E2): 0.8 (0.5 to 2.2)
- Pregesterone: 70 (12 to 100)
- Testosterone: 88 (44 to 148)
- DHEAS: 32.7 (2 to 23)
- Cortisol 7:30am: 12.3 (3.7 to 9.5)
- Cortisol 11:30am: 1.8 (1.2 to 3.0)
- Cortisol 4:30pm 1.2 (0.6 to 1.9)
- Cortisol 9:30pm 0.2 (0.4 to 1.0)
Finally, a comprehensive blood test taken on August 28th (ask if more values are needed, these are the ones that are off):
Estradiol, Ultrasensitive LC/MS/MS: 29pg/mL (less than 29... is this the correct Estradiol test?)
DHT: 45ng/dL (25-75)
DHEA Sulfate: 327 mcg/dL (110-510)
Total Testosterone: 560ng/dL (700-1000)
Free Testosterone: 134pg/mL (34 to 194)
White Blood Cell Count: 3.3 (3.8-10.8 thousand/uL)
Absolute Neutrophils: 1416 (1500-7800 cells/uL)
Absolute Monocytes: 96 (200-950 cells/uL)
Without a doubt, the sexual problems are due to the Zoloft and Effexor I took. I was placed on zoloft when I was 17 due to feeling "bad," then switched to effexor when I was 21. I got off, went through extreme withdrawal, then got back on. I went through dry heaving, a fever, insomnia, a bunch of overdose symptoms, then the next morning I couldn't feel my penis. I have been off of them for 8 months now.
I seriously wonder if the antidepressants screwed up my liver somehow? I just read in Shippen's book that they, like alcohol, inhibit the P450 system, which in turn causes Estrogen to build up. (A possible reason why antidepressants and alcohol don't mix?) And judging by the blood test, my Estradiol is at the top of the scale, which could be the reason for the low Testosterone. My thyroid is obviously off as well, I'll be doing a blood test on it in a few weeks.
The first doctor had me on Clomid, 25mg five days a week. I felt hopeless, depressed, and couldn't stop crying, so I quit after 3 weeks. Next up, he wants me to try HCG injections to see what happens.
My 2nd doctor performed some tests on me and confirmed zinc deficiency, poor adrenal function, and used a heart-rate test graphing test to show that my sympathetic nervous system is in overdrive while my parasympathetic is mostly off. He says one cause is probably the zinc problem.
As for supplements, I began Dr. Wilson's adrenal formulas in August after finding out that my adrenals are out of whack. My doctor kept me on them. There are three tablets, taken three times a day:
- 920mg of Adrenal, Gonadal, Hypothalamus, Pituitary, Thyroid concentrate from Porcine Sources
-Vitamin C 580mg
-Citrus Bioflavinoids 300mg
- Vitamin A 12500IU
- Vitamin C 1540mg
- Vitamin E 60IU
- Vitamin B1 25mg
- Vitamin B2 25mg
- Vitamin B3 130mg
- Vitamin B5 1200mg
- Vitamin B6 150mg
- Biotin 500mcg
- Folic Acid 1000mcg
- Magnesium 200mg
- Manganese 10mg
- Zinc 15mg
- Chromium 1000mcg
- Copper 1mg
- Selenium 50mcg
- 5-HTP 50mg
- Choline 50mg
- Kelp 50mg
- PABA 35mg
- Citrus Bioflavinoids 500mg
I also take the following each day:
Cat's Claw 500mg
Fish Oil 1000mg
ZMA 2 each night (one week so far)
And a bunch of stuff to make me sleep
Soooo.... any ideas?
Again, very much thanks for helping me out.
11-01-2007 12:51 AM
One more thing. I wore a device called the Ring of Power a few months ago that seemed to have very positive results. It is a zinc/copper device worn around your package. (More info at megabiz.net/).
I stopped wearing it because, well, it just seems weird and could potentially cause something bad to happen. But I am definitely zinc deficient and am tempted to try it again.
11-01-2007 09:20 AM
I am going thru testing and corecting process that you may possibly apply to to your case.
You may read my story here:
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
JanSz-Metabolic Analysis and Cellular Energy
Depending on you perceived level of misery.
If you are not busy, have some cash and/or insurance, do these tests (that I list below) in Genova Diagnostics.
For me the beauty of these tests come on the end of report that contains suggested corrective action.
First read the logic that they applied in one case:
Genova Diagnostics - Anti-Aging Digest
You can probably find more examples, post them as you find them.
Now the tests:
Metabolic Analysis and Cellular Energy
Essential & Metabolic fatty acid Analysis,
Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis (CDSA)
Comprehensive Detoxification Profile.
Hair Elemental Analysis
I think there is also
Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis (CDSA) 2.0
not sure if this one is lattest or possibly both apply.
Genova Diagnostics is accessible world wide.
I am in a process of going thru these tests.
In a hind side, I should have ordered them all ay once.
Logically with the test results at hand you could also go to:
and they could make custom supplements for you.
I just send them the order form with my current (incomplete) test results and my complaints.
I will report on my thread of my progress.
11-01-2007 09:43 AM
I just read the website and am confused.
Originally Posted by mastershay
This device is supposed to, among other things, increase your libido, erections, (not to mention size), etc...
You claim earlier that you have had problems with all of these issues.
But then you state that you "seemed to have very positive results" from wearing it.
These two positions seem irreconcilable. Please explain.
11-01-2007 01:37 PM
Sounds like your in a tough spot. I've been there and things look hopeless but there always a way to get through difficult times. It just takes the right questions/right answers and direction.
Depression and hormonal issues are a daily task. I have major dep. bi-polar, low test, hypo thyroid and it takes allot of work and inner strength to deal with all this stuff at times.
Any questions or information you have on depression please feel free to contact me. I have over a decade of dealing in this and have tried over 30 diff. meds so I might be able to help out in this are at least with what I know.
are you on anti dep. meds now
did you start you TRT (hcg) treatment if so what is it
Dont get me wrong but in my own opinion I have almost zero faith in supplements. I do take fish oil, multi, vit c and just started ZMA because I have a hemoglobin problem and just read that it could be due to deficiency in zinc, magn, so trying it out
11-01-2007 03:09 PM
Janz, I'll take a look at getting some of those. Looks like they have everything you could dream of.
Rick, what I meant was that the RoP did seem to work pretty well, but I stopped because I don't know how safe wearing the thing is. Wearing a zinc/copper rod around my balls just seems weird, but hey, if there's no danger then I'll do it again.
Corndog, I beat the depression through lots of research, experimentation and persistence. I have been off of antidepressants since February. It was rough, but I managed to survive and found out that the whole depression industry is wrong, especially with all the pills. I can provide more info if you'd like (I kept a journal the whole time), but it had to a lot to do with the nervous system and cortisol levels, and letting out stuff that had been stuffed inside.
11-01-2007 03:33 PM
Mastershay - First, congtats on beating the big D. Its a daily fight and I am the type of person who hates taking pills and at one point I was on 6 or 7. I'm down to wellbutrin, lamictal and klonopin for sleep.
I take zyprexa when I hit a major low but never take it longer than 2 weeks. Funny thing is I was really down a week or so ago so I started taking it again and I'm feeling better (placibo effect maybey) but yesturday I notice I felt I had gained some weight and check my BP. iT HAD SKY ROCKETED. I stopped it as of last night.
I dont have much faith or beleive much of anything from the pharm companies and supplement industry at all but do know that I need some type of help.
I would love any info you have. I'm a dedicated educator in mental health, overall health and bodybuilding lifestyle so reading and reserching is a part of my life.
I found a wesite a year ago called crasymeds.com. Great info and based on people that suffer mental issues not industry trying to push pills.
Please send me your info and data I look forward to reading it and possibly improving my life.
11-03-2007 12:31 PM
Matersay, have you checked your prolactin? I thought Zoloft and SSRI's in general raise prolactin. I wonder if this is still happening even though youve stopped taking the drug.
How is your sugar and simple carbohydrate intake? Do you balance your carbs with protein? How much water do you drink a day? How is your diet all round?
How are your liver function tests? A lot of what your describing sounds like straight out toxicity. If your P450 enzyme was underactive already, then anything that inhibits it further might cause you problems.
Thats interesting that Dr Shippen says in his book that alcohol INHIBITS the P450 enzyme. I was told by a Dr a while back that it actually speeds up the the P450 making it overactive (over a long period of time) as your liver tries to clear alcohol quicker, leaving it permanently overactive. Caffeine I thought also speeds it up. If I see him again I will ask him about it. Do you consume grapefruit juice regularly?
The same Dr thinks that this is the problem with guys who have trouble with Finasteride. The liver is not metabolising the drug and so it is the equivilent of taking a mega dose of it. I often wonder if these drugs are still floating around in our system. I noticed your withdrawel symptoms were pretty bad and also that you had symptoms of "overdose"....hmmm. I would be looking into your liver. Are you generally hyper-sensitive to taking meds?
Are you familiar with the Yahoo Group called PSSD? They are all suffering from similar lingering side effects after using SSRI's. They dont have the answers there yet, but its good to know your not on your own.
SSRIsex : Persistent SSRI sexual side effects
Its uncanny the similarity between you SSRI guys and the Finasteride guys. A lot of similar symptoms. I would love to know what causes the penis to go numb. High E? Lack of DHT? Is it somthing in the brain?
11-03-2007 01:46 PM
Originally Posted by jaydee
Yeah I've been a part of the PSSD group for while now. I've expanded to a few other places over time, trying to get to the root cause of whatever is happening because there definitely isn't just one thing wrong here.
According to the blood test, prolactin is good. Or at least that is what the doc said. I received a copy of the test in the mail, but page 4 (with prolactin) was missing.
My diet has always been good, and has been great over the last few months. Nothing but food that is good for me: no sugar, hardly any alcohol, a liter of water each day, raw eggs, all pasta/bread is wheat, organic foods, etc. I don't eat grapefruits at all after reading a while back that they interfere in antidepressant metabolism (back when I was on them).
At this point I would not be surprised if the liver had a lot to do with it. I read that Vitamin B12 can possibly be stored in the liver for 10 years, so maybe the effexor is still lodged in there. My 2nd doc knows a ton about detox and fasting, so I'll probably doing that in the near future. Right now he just wants me to balance my parasympathetic system so that I can heal better. Another thing I noticed was that norepinephrine has a lot to do with keeping the parasympathetic system off, and effexor and wellbutrin are norepinephrine inhibitors.
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