- 10-30-2007, 08:12 PM
Ok some of you may be familiar with my posts. i am 22 years old, and on TRT. i have had low e2 and low libido. i started doing e5d injections instead of e3d, taking dhea, and pregnenolone. this got my e2 to rise and i had some medicore erections/arousal then it dissapeared. i figured i must now be a little high with e2 from all those changes. (i waited weeks between dosing changes/starting new things dont worry) i took a .5mg dose of arimidex, and the same day felt different. then the next day better. random erections, quicker erections induced by sexual thoughts or porn. so my question to you is this: if i have increased my e2, then took arimidex to lower it, and have started seeing results very very quickly am i
A) really close to my target e2 zone, and the little effect that it would have on day one was enough to push me into the "zone"?
B) i am really far from it, and even the slight change that it would make on day one seemed significant because i am so far away, getting closer has to be "felt" relatively easily.
my current plan of action, before taking your opinions into hand are to start dosing .3mg e4d of a'dex.
thank you for your time spent helping raise my quality of life.
- 10-31-2007, 12:10 AM
22, and on TRT? Just curious, but what is your level of health? (I.E. - weight/diet/training regimen)
11-05-2007, 03:17 AM
11-05-2007, 09:15 AM
11-05-2007, 10:43 AM
11-05-2007, 11:46 AM
Previously T+(500iu HCG)+Liquidex on the same day, E3D schedule.
Now, I keep T+Liquidex as it was but
hcg 250iu I do on the two days in between the T shots.
My balls got little bigger (I think) and scrotum is hanging low all the time. Previously I had tighter scrotum from time to time.
There are no other niticeable changes.
Wonder which way is better way.
In my youunger days my scrotum was not constantly low.
It would go up or down.
IIRC it would be tighter when colder or I was concentrated or in some stressfull situation and hanging lower when warm and when I was relaxed.
11-05-2007, 03:43 PM
The hcg may be giving you 200-300 dl of t boost if that being older its more for decoration then anything.
Give the change 4 weeks and see how your test results are.
You will find e2 will drop and may actually go in the normal range and over time e2 may be controlled with natural things other then armidex. I would check into urine testing for iodine. I feel that now being iodine replenish that its really affecting estrogen metabolism to the point where it lower the estrone and estrodial why making hcg a must to keep e2 levels at optimal level due to high shbg. Even with t of 1200 shbg was still not lowering..
11-06-2007, 02:33 PM
My version of this the same as yours. Only using Arimidex and slightly lower dose of HcG. When doing it this was noticed definitincrease in size of testicle and lower hanging scrotum. Also a slight increase in Free Test (which was already excellent to begin with once I got SHBG levels down in lower 1/4th of reference range). I do T twice a week (IM) and the HcG (subQ) the day before - and the (small amount) of Arimidex on the day of the T injection.
11-08-2007, 02:29 PM
WARNING!: this post is loaded with details so that you can provide me with your most educated current best thoughts. i promise its a fun read haha.
Ok guys heres my latest science experiment haha. I switched from e3d injections to e5d. My reasoning for this was that I think I have low e2 nautrally. I have used test gels and shots for months and months with no libido like i had when i was natural. So i switched to less frequent injections to increase aromatization. i also started taking 100mg of pregnenolone in the morning, 100mg of dhea in the morning, and 100mg of dhea in the afternoon. (previously 200mg of dhea kept me within the normal range so im not overdosing trust me). Now with the pregnenolone, dhea, and injections fueling aromatization, i "knew" my e2 would go high. so after being on this new regiment for about 2 weeks with no libido returning, i started adding arimidex to the mix. here is my recent injections/arimidex ingestions.
Oct 28th, sunday, i took .5mg arimidex
oct 30th tuesday, 100mg of test cyp
nov 1st thursday, I WAKE UP WITH MORNING WOOD. i also take another .3mg arimidex, since its 4 days since my last dosing. I ALSO GET ERECTIONS FROM WATCHING PORN.
nov 4th sunday, 100mg of test cyp
nov 5th monday, 2.mg arimidex
nov 6th tuesday, MORNING WOOD, PORN ERECTIONS, RANDOM ERECTIONS
nov 7th weds, .4mg arimidex. PORN ERECTIONS AGAIN.
nov 8th thursday, MORNING WOOD
sadly so far no increase in libido, just in erections a little, and thats with cialis
so what dosing of arimidex should i use? two days after my 100mg inject was when i got the best day of erections, but thats probably due to increasing TT.
Should i be getting libido response by now?
is my libido problem not e2 related if im getting morning wood but no increase in desire or sexual thoughts? or do those changes take longer?
the arimidex is leading to wood, so it is a good idea for me to continue it. i also found it strange that i responded to the arimidex the first day i took a dose. i have only read of one other person on these boards having such an atypical response.
should i start maintaining a .3mg of arimidex e3d? .2 e3d? .5 2x a week? taking all this detailed knowledge i have given you into account what would you do?
(and i know your all going to tell me to get a blood test and its the only way to know. please even if this is not kosher for me to figure this out by "feel", please help. i can assure you their are extenuating circumstances as to why i cant right now. trust me all i want is to do things "right".)
UPDATE: sorry to keep talking about porn and my steeple, but i just opened up some porn as this is my easiest barometer for erections. i got hard, no hands in like 30 seconds...im obviously on the right track! even more important I HAD MY FIRST SEX DREAM WHERE I BANGED SOME IMAGINARY CHICK IN MAYBE A FREAKIN YEAR. guys i am so close to figuring this all out!
11-08-2007, 05:07 PM
Sounds to me like you are primarily self-diagnosing and self-medicating. Your regimen is all over the place. No wonder you developed unusual symptoms (as in your above post on "moles"). You need to get some actual Labs done and then set up a consistent specific regimen.
Personally, I don't think that you should be taking the pregnenolone as you have no idea as to whethe or not you need it. And pregnenolone is considered the "Mother Hormone" as it is used in making most other hormones... so you may be having an excess of pregnenolone that is causing excesses in things like E2 and other estrogens, etc.
Also, do you KNOW that you are low in DHEA? You are taking about four times what I would consider the maximum dose for males who are low and need it!
You do know, for example, that there is very minimal increase in levels of T in males who take DHEA, even in high doses - but that even in moderately high doses of DHEA there is significant increases in estrogens (including E2)??? But that females do get a moderate "bump" in T levels in taking DHEA?
Morales AJ, Haubrich RH, Hwang JY, Asakura H, Yen SS. The effect of six months treatment with a 100 mg daily dose of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on circulating sex steroids, body composition and muscle strength in age-advanced men and women. Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1998 Oct;49(4):421-32
• In women, but not in men, serum A, T and DHT were increased
Biotransformation of oral dehydroepiandrosterone in elderly men: significant increase in circulating estrogens
Arlt W, Haas J, Callies F, Reincke M, Hubler D, Oettel M, Ernst M, Schulte HM, Allolio B., Department of Endocrinology, Medical University Hospital Wuerzburg, Germany
In other words, there was NO change in levels of T or DHT in males taking either 50 mg or especially 100 mg of DHEA - but there was a noticeable increase in estrogen levels - especiallty as the doses were increased!The intake of 50 mg DHEA led to an increase in serum DHEAS to mean levels of young adult men, whereas 100 mg DHEA induced supraphysiological concentrations [placebo vs. 50 mg DHEA vs. 100 mg DHEA; area under the curve (AUC) 0-12 h (mean +/- SD) for DHEA, 108 +/- 22 vs. 252 +/- 45 vs. 349 +/- 72 nmol/L x h; AUC 0-12 h for DHEAS, 33 +/- 9 vs. 114 +/- 19 vs. 164 +/- 36 micromol/L x h]. Serum testosterone and dihydrotestosterone remained unchanged after DHEA administration. In contrast, 17beta-estradiol and estrone significantly increased in a dose-dependent manner...
And you are taking 200 mgs a day???
11-08-2007, 06:07 PM
11-08-2007, 07:50 PM
i am not self diagnosing. i have a endocrinologist that i see. the only thing i am doing that is self medicating is the arimidex. and many on here have done this liquidex experiment on their own with great results. if i feel ****tier on it then i would stop. i dont. i feel alot better.Sounds to me like you are primarily self-diagnosing and self-medicating. Your regimen is all over the place. No wonder you developed unusual symptoms (as in your above post on "moles"). You need to get some actual Labs done and then set up a consistent specific regimen.
dr. jon crisler himself has said that he has stopped checking pregnenolone and dhea. its always low in TRT patients. this is due to the exogenous test throwing the system whack. an excess of e2 is ok because then i can reduce it with arimidex. a low e2 is not ok. there is nothing i could do when my e2 was too low. getting hcg could solve my previous low e2 problem but that is not an option for myself personally in my current life situation.Personally, I don't think that you should be taking the pregnenolone as you have no idea as to whethe or not you need it. And pregnenolone is considered the "Mother Hormone" as it is used in making most other hormones... so you may be having an excess of pregnenolone that is causing excesses in things like E2 and other estrogens, etc.
i know that taking 200mg of dhea keeps me at the 400s in dhea, which is easily within the normal range. yes i may be taking more dhea than YOU would consider the maximum dose but realize everyne absorbs everything differently. i apparently need more.Also, do you KNOW that you are low in DHEA? You are taking about four times what I would consider the maximum dose for males who are low and need it!
i am not in any way whatsoever taking DHEA for higher T levels. I am taking it primarily because it is low and i would like my hormones in the upper range. dhea is good for you. its natural to have it, we make it ourselves normally. the e2 increase is actually nice for my specific case, and any excessive e2 can be reduced with arimidex.You do know, for example, that there is very minimal increase in levels of T in males who take DHEA, even in high doses - but that even in moderately high doses of DHEA there is significant increases in estrogens (including E2)??? But that females do get a moderate "bump" in T levels in taking DHEA?
i am not an elderly man. i am 22 years old. older people aromatize much more than younger people.Biotransformation of oral dehydroepiandrosterone in elderly men: significant increase in circulating estrogens
yes i am. i have ulcerative colitis a very painful and permanent auto immune disorder. many stuides have shown that 200mg of dhea a day reduces inflammation. to not be in horrible pain and ****ting blood, i dont mind taking some dhea.And you are taking 200 mgs a day???
11-08-2007, 07:52 PM
can anybody offer me dosing advice for starting out? i see people ask for dosing advice for starting liquidex becasue of high e2 symptoms and they dont catch all the flak im catching. just answer the specific question, dont diagnose my entire situation. im merely asking for your help to solve this one specific problem. what arimidex dosage and how often seems to be a good starting point. from there i can ramp up/down the dose.
11-08-2007, 09:07 PM
My TRT male patients who suffer E2 elevations above the top of normal range are placed on 0.25mg of Arimidex every third day. If that is not enough, I use the same dose EOD. It is possible to cut the tiny 1mg tabs into quarters, but here a gel or cream preparation, compounded to convenient dosing, makes a lot of sense. A month later I recheck E2, and make further adjustment if necessary. It is important to not lower estrogen too far, which is easy to do with an AI, as doing so has disastrous effects on the Lipid Profile, bone deposition, etc. I prefer to maintain E in mid-range
11-08-2007, 10:32 PM
yeah i know ive read that many many times. i was just pouring my heart and soul into journal information to get a more personalized recommendation as to dosage and timing. i can see that i will not receive the answers i am looking for so lets just all forget it.
11-08-2007, 10:57 PM
11-09-2007, 10:49 AM
Let's take your word for it.
You are seeing an Endo.
Post your numbers (and reference ranges) for your Lab results (not everything, just what you have as relates to Total T, Free T - or Bioavailable T, E2, Total Estrogens, SHBG, and DHT) from your last 2 or 3 Lab tests... or just your last one if you just have the one.
If your Endo did no testing, then you need to switch doctors - and report your old Endo to the medical board for your state!
As to self-medicating with Arimidex.
You simply cannot do that. Arimidex is an extremely strong AI. It was originally developed for women with estrogen induced breast cancer for the purposes of knoking out their estrogen production - in taking it at levels of 1 mg a day. Doses taken by men for HRT for controlling their much lower as compared to women) excess estrogen are in the range of 1/4th mg a day to maybe as high as 1/2 mg every three days - very infrequently higher than that. What is the "half-life' of Arimidex? (You would need to know that also in attempting to do any self-medicating). Is your Endo prescribing you Arimidex at just whatever levels you want to have?
As to DHEA, that study quoted also works that way for young men also...
I can dig up that study also and where it shows where healthy young men, aged 21 - 30, had slightly over 50% increases in E2 when taking 100 mg of DHEA daily. That surge of E2 lasted for several hours before declining - as the DHEA in the blood was metabolized. The increase for 50 mg a day was much less. These were done in taking it in single doses at that level. They found that taking 25 mg twice a day not only kept DHEA-S levels in the bloodstream much more consistent, but that there was basically no increases in E2 with those levels.
11-09-2007, 12:25 PM
11-09-2007, 02:00 PM
One newer know for sure unless (properly) tested.
Try going to the moon using gas and break pedal only and have blocked windshield.
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