Nettle root extract and SHBG
- 10-24-2007, 09:49 AM
Nettle root extract and SHBG
I have made some search on the effects of nettle root extract on SHBG. In theory the lignans of the root should bind SHBG and thus increase free testosterone levels. The reason why I'm looking answers is my low libido, probably caused by quite low free testosterone level. I have ordered 500 mg capsules of 8:1 nettle root extract, hoping that they will work.
But what about reality? Have someone tried nettle root extracts? If so, what was the daily intake and was it "standard" nettle root extract or for example ActivaTe? And what were the results?
Thanks for your answers
- 10-24-2007, 10:02 AM
- 10-24-2007, 11:13 AM
10-24-2007, 03:39 PM
Actually I'm not 100% sure whether my SHBG is high, but I'm guessing so because my total testosterone is normal and free is low-normal. Blood profile looks like this: (measurements taken period of July-August)
Total testosterone 22 nmol/l (range 10-38) = 630 ng/dl?
Free testosterone 238 pmol/l (range 150-500) = 6,9 pg/ml?
Estradiol 90 pmol/l (range <160) = 24,5 pg/ml?
LH 10 IU/I
FSH 18 IU/I
Prolactin 289 mU/I (70-300)
TSH 1,6 mU/I (0,3-4,5)
cholesterol, total: 5,3 mmol/l
cholesterol, HDL: 1.42 mmol/l
cholesterol, LDL: 3.7 mmol/l
triglyserides: 0.59 mmol/l
Glucose: 5.0 mmol/l (range 4.2-6)
Hemoglobin: 158 g/l (range 132-167)
GT (liver value?) 21 U/I (range 10-80)
ALAT (liver value?) 25 U/I (range 10-70)
Crea (kidney value?) 92 umol/l (range 60-115)
So: LDL could be lower, high FSH correlates my poor semen quantity, and free testosterone could be higher?
Please comment. Also you mentioned about diet?
And comments regarding to Nettle Root Extracts from everybody are still welcome.
10-24-2007, 06:54 PM
10-24-2007, 11:50 PM
10-25-2007, 10:39 AM
Estradiol 90 pmol/l (range <160)
There is number of estradiol tests.
or lattest from Quest (my prefered)
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
"ordinary" Estradiol test is not sensitive enough to be used for men.
The above is for those in USA.
People outside of USA have even harder situation when it comes to testing.
They have different units, ranges and what not.
Quality of information dilutes quickly.
SI vs american units coversion does not solve much.
10-25-2007, 12:09 PM
FWIW - Your T and free T seem to be middle of the range. That doesn't mean that maybe they should not be higher, but they don't appear to be low. (i.e. my T is 187 on a range of 300-1100, which IS low)
10-25-2007, 03:46 PM
I guess the values as US units for total test, free test and estradiol are 630 ng/dl, 6,9 pg/ml and 24,5 pg/ml, respectively. Please correct if I'm wrong.
Yes, and any experiences from nettle root extracts?
10-30-2007, 12:09 PM
I really didn't see any specific answers to the nettle root extract question here. Does it actually bind to SHBG and increase free test or not? If it does, then by how much and how soon do you notice the effects of this? Some help here please!!
10-30-2007, 01:22 PM
I have not concrete evidence, but I believe my use of Nettle Root extract has helped in with libido and strength. Just a very subjective observation.
10-31-2007, 02:46 AM
Thanks wildfox for your reply. So you have taken root extract capsules, not pure root powder? What is your daily dosing and is the extract a "standard product", instead of a "refined one", such as LEF's or Activate?
Subjective observations are exactly what I'm hoping to hear, because I have already read all the scientific articles what are behind the nettle root hype.
10-31-2007, 07:56 AM
The results were increased libido, better overall feeling, increased strength...I was using nothing else and used this protocol for 2 months.
From my research I discovered that all the ligands in nettle Root have a propensity to bind to SHBG except one. But also I found one of those ligands had the highest propensity to bind to SHBG. This ligand is found in concentrated form in DS Activate and bulk Nettle Root standardized for this ligand at Nutra Planet.
I have used the bulk extract from Nutra Planet and had the same effect w/ a couple of 1/4 tsps as I did w/ those mega doses of bulk herb.
I have used DS original Activate as well w/ great results (similiar to Nutra's bulk extract). Somewhere along the line I had some bloodwork done while on the extract and my free test had increased over older previous numbers taken a year before (i.e. not using nettle).
In a month or so I will be using Nutra's bulk extract again w/ an AI...I love the stuff. I like the way it makes me feel and I believe it is even better than the Saw Palmetto for my prostate.
By-the-way I'm 41 years old....but I have a 22 year old fiancee...so I'm always looking for ways to help my libido along...Nettle Root extract helps me in that regard.
10-31-2007, 04:11 PM
11-01-2007, 07:53 AM
I take the root extract capsules as well at 500 mg. at a time , 4 times a day. I spread it out every 5 hours upon waking. I really like how it makes me feel. I fell very confident and strong all the time. I am more agressive with the weights and my mate , if you know what I mean!!!
11-01-2007, 08:18 AM
Thanks guys for your experiences! I started yesterday taking my extract capsules (brown powder inside a cellulose capsule), 2x500 mg a day, hopefully it is as potent stuff what you are taking..
Are any of you concerned about the fact that nettle lignans are most likely converted to phytoestrogens (enterodiol, enterolactone, enterofuran) by colon bacterias? Phytoestrogens are said to be "weak estrogen/weak antiestrogens". In vivo studies are showing that phytoestrogens (from soy, flax etc.) INCREASED SHBG, at least in postmenopausal women? Studies of men have mixed results.. in some studies, free testosterone decreased, while in some it increased. Damn I'm confused.
11-01-2007, 10:42 AM
11-01-2007, 11:29 AM
Chill out, man. I haven't put the powder to the capsules, they have been packed in this way. English info says "vegetarian capsules", in german "Zellulosekapsel". Of course I can brake the capsule and eat the powder, but why? I guess the capsule should brake in acidic conditions?
And what did you mean about dosage? 500 mg each, "8:1 standardised root extract".
11-06-2007, 01:54 PM
11-06-2007, 02:00 PM
I had "okay", but not really decent levels of Total T - but very poor Free T while on various transdermal gels (AndroGel, Testim). I was - it turned out - a very poor skin absorber. I also had elevated Total Estrogens and elevated E2. And elevated (high normal range - but very high normal range) of SHBG.
We switched to Test Cyp IM injections (first 100 mg a week and then 50 mg twice a week). E2 was helped significantly - but still above reference range noticeably. SHBG pretty much unchanged. Total T now pretty darn good... but Free T still on the poor side (my Lab switched from numbers of percentage figures during the course of this, but the reference range was - as I recall - 1.0% to 3.1%). Prior to switching to IM injections, my Total T was generally (even with higher doses of gels) under 475. I hit 500 once (reference range of 220 - 1000). Anyway, after switching to IM injections, SHBG was still up there and so Free T levels were around 1.9 - 2.1 range.
I then began a regimen (with NO other changes) of taking nettles root extract (300 mg tablet of 5% extract ONCE a day). When I was next tested (about 6 weeks later), my SHBG was in the range of 18 - 20... and my Free T was 3.3%. Since then, my SHBG has stayed in that same range and my Free T levels have ran in the range of 3.0 - 3.4% consistently.
I cannot say this will work for everybody simply due to the fact that there can be multiple unrelated reasons for elevated SHBG. And then we are all different when it comes to how we respond to various medications, herbals, etc.
For example, I have read many anecdotal stories of males who have done well (or at least "okay") in regards to controlling their estrogens via either DIM or transdermal Chrysin (as long as it has been micropulverized) or even a micropulverized DIM / Chrysin compounded mixture. Yet I personally had NO real help in using any of those combinations. The best that I got was in using very high doses of Rite Aid's brand DIM (about three times the recommended amount)... and yet I only achieved an extremely small improvement in my E2 levels - while Total Estrogen levels increased by over 25%!
Also... going by how you feel obviously has a degree of importance, but I would also recommend getting the Labs done - even if just SHBG and Free T - to see if the compound or extract is doing what it is supposed to be doing... or are you simply obtaining a placebo effect that is going to be only short to medium term?
It HAS to be nettles root EXTRACT... not powdered nettles root (not strong enough) nor nettles leaf powder or etract (the leaves don't contain the active ingredients necessary.
And it should be a strong extract (8:1 ratio for example means that 8 unts of nettles root barks was concentrated down to 1 unit of extract). Also, it is NOT really dose dependent. I achieved my results on taking 300 mgs of the root extract at a level of once a day. I imagine that it might be possible that too strong a dose of too much root extract could drive SHBG levels too low... IF they work for you.
11-06-2007, 05:05 PM
11-09-2007, 10:33 PM
Sorry for the dlay.
I used an unknown (cant recall brand name) that was 25o mg of active nettle root extract when I first started, but can't recall the name of it. Just used it for the first bottle of 60 I believe. That was like in the Summer of 2005.
Since then have used Nettle Root Power by Nature's Herbs (a subdivision - I believe - of TwinLabs, so good quality). It has 300 mgs of active nettle root extract in it. I get it through (hope I'm allowed to say this???) VitaCost at a really decent price. And I only have been taking 1 cap a day, so two bottles lasts me four months. Pretty damn cost effective.
Hope that it works as well for you!
11-09-2007, 11:49 PM
Thanks for all the information
total test was 924
dht - 3 times top end
free t 2.1
and still having low t symptoms
- memory, motivation, poor wound healing, weight gain, ect, ibs.
11-10-2007, 07:23 AM
Causes of Poor healing - WrongDiagnosis.com
22 medical conditions causing Poor healing
Adrenal adenoma, familial ... poor wound healing
Adrenal Cancer ... poor wound healing
Adrenal gland hyperfunction ... poor wound healing
Adrenal incidentaloma ... poor wound healing
Adrenocortical carcinoma ... poor wound healing
Back tumour ... difficulty recovering from minor infections
Congenital disorder of glycosylation type X - Bombay blood group phenotype ... poor wound healing
Cushing syndrome, familial ... slow-healing skin
Cushing's syndrome ... poor healing, slow-healing skin
Diabetes ... Poor healing
Ehlers-Danlos syndrome type VIII ... poor wound healing
Functioning pancreatic endocrine tumor ... poor wound healing
Hip cancer ... difficulty recovering from minor infections
Hyperadrenalism ... poor wound healing
Leukocyte Adhesion Defect ... poor healing, poor wound healing
Mandibuloacral dysplasia with type B lipodystrophy ... poor wound healing
Pituitary cancer, childhood ... poor wound healing
Pituitary tumors, adult ... poor wound healing
Rib Tumor ... difficulty recovering from minor infections
Scurvy ... poor healing
Type 2 diabetes ... Poor healing
11-10-2007, 08:45 AM
Factor in there also estrogen imbalances for wound healing
Estrogen modulates cutaneous wound healing by downregulating macrophage migration inhibitory factor -- Ashcroft et al. 111 (9): 1309 -- Journal of Clinical Investigation
saturated fats help to going to go with cooconut oil 2 TBSP a day may HDL are low despite naicin, but at that time my e2 where also low
lack of progesterone is a biggy which is over rided when free e2/ free test levels are high
11-10-2007, 08:55 AM
Test ONE from Genova should answer many of this type questions,
corrective action ---- specific supplements, name & dose
sugested further testing
GDX ONE - Optimal Nutrition Evaluation
The ONE - Optimal Nutrition Evaluation - consists of:
Amino Acid Analysis
Oxidative Stress Analysis
The ONE's innovative “Interpretation at a Glance”:
• Highlights individualized nutritional recommendations
• Provides insight into disease risk and treatment options:
- Gastrointestinal Dysfunction
- Detoxification & Methylation
- Neurotransmitter imbalance
- Need for Probiotics
They just changed this test. Now it is urine only, sample report dated October 23/2007, really new stuff.
I got home all the kits for the testing that I need, my doc took off for three weeks vacation, bummer.
Actually wondering, I can stop all supplements, clean my system for three weeks.
Just take medicines
When I am clean like that, possibly I can do chelation therapy.
But I think for chelation one have to be clean for 3 monts first.
There is new non-invasive way, suppositories.
Detoxamin Chelation Suppositories
11-14-2007, 02:59 PM
CAn someone please link Nutraplanets' nettle root product? I can't seem to find it on the store site when searching, thx...
11-14-2007, 03:26 PM
11-14-2007, 03:35 PM
Coconut oil is also great applied topically to wounds.
I've had good experiences with bulk 95% nettle root..great sleep, mood, libido et cetera. Never had any bloodwork done but my skin gets oily within a few days of use. Also, I often mix the bulk nettle with Avena sativa powder in a 50/50 ratio and this seems to heighten the libido response even more.
11-14-2007, 03:56 PM
11-14-2007, 04:35 PM
11-14-2007, 07:57 PM
11-14-2007, 11:23 PM
I believe that people avg about 400 mg bulk nettle three to four times a day...don't quote me on it though....400mg doseages will get you 125 "servings". Not sure how the new Activate compares to that though.
RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
11-15-2007, 10:36 PM
Doing PCT from test only cycle here soon and I'm gonna do 20mg tamox/derm-sustain/PFull for 4 weeks, and then sustain/nettle root/Pfull and maybe camphibolic as my staple supps for the next 6 months or so and see how it goes. Not sure yet about the camp, if I can think of something else to get I may do it instead.
**sorrry for getting off topic
11-16-2007, 04:01 PM
11-25-2007, 06:26 PM
Yes, had moderately hgigh (above normal range at times - right at top end of normal ref range at other times) oof SHBG. No other variable in HRT treatment. Already had been put on an AI (weeks previously) for high E2 and Total Es (we later tweaked that AI dosing - but long after I had added the Nettles Extract). And yes, the SHBG - beore and after was confirmed via SHBG results shown in Lab tests (blood draws). Went from previous high ranges to very low normal ranges - and Free T increased to slightly above ref. range levels.
Again, I am not saying that nettles root extract will workfor everyone. I know of guys who swear that DIM works very well for controlling their E2 levels, but while it lowered my E2 a couple of points (and I needed it lowered a LOT more than that), it raised my Total Es very noticeably. I also had one poster on another board who PMed me that he had tried it for a couple months and nothing... actually a slight increase. Then - when I checked - I found that he was using nettles leaf powder.... not nettles root... not nettles root extract. EAven though I had emphasized the difference, he assumed it was "all the same". A couple months later (on the right stuff) and he was also reporting SHBG way down and Free T way up.
Again, am talking as relates to HRT / TRT and not AAS. And throughout (like most recently) am taking ONE cap that is an 8:1 extract of 300 mgs per day.
(Sorry for delay but was in hospital for a while there and have recently found out I need some back surgery. Fortunately is work related so State's workers comp will be picking up the tab).
11-25-2007, 06:45 PM
right now I am taking a prostate DIM /nettle supplement with 300 mgs DIM PRO with nettle root exact 300 at 16:1 ratio and nothing else for now to alter the SHBG. And I am going to get shbg checked in about a month, I am picking up my RBC fattty acid testng from genova to test for that as well.. DIM at 600 mgs a day did jack for my e2. I think topical pregeneolone, fish oils, calcium D is a better for e2 control then DIM EVER WILL BE
11-26-2007, 10:32 AM
There are two products at LEF to do this job.
Reason for use of DIM is to control 2/16 hydroxyestrones.
Even for that DIM is nor really the only thing that should be used.
Check their list of ingredients
desriptions of what their action is.
Breast Health Formula, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
Breast Health Formula
60 vegetarian capsules
Item Catalog Number: 999
Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw
60 vegetarian capsules
Item Catalog Number: 969
After my first half/ass Estroessence test am starting to see that Genova is expanding list of helpfull ingredients.
Cant wait when I will have good Estroessence test.
12-01-2008, 02:59 PM
any info about Nettle Root extract (Divanex) and hair loss prevention.
Most articles I see say Nettle is GOOD for preventing hair loss.
But I have also come across the opposite opinion.Any thoughts?
10-26-2010, 11:17 AM
Hardasnails, your hormone levels are actually excellent readings.
what are your symptoms?
have you ever thought of this.
hormones can only work when receptors are upregulated enough.
fish oil's DHA destroys ESTROGEN RECEPTOR ALPHA
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