22 years old.....low test
- 10-19-2007, 08:55 PM
22 years old.....low test
Background info here: (May be irrelavant but this is all I can think of to put here)
Oct '06- caught a nasty virus which caused pericarditis and ended up in the hospital for 5 days, had a heart cathe...came home..back to the hospital again as throat had ulcers and I couldnt drink anything! Went from 240-215 in a matter of a couple weeks.
Nov- '06 got back into the gym and lifting and got back up to about 230ish by x-mas
April '07- did a bb comp weighing about 195. Felt pretty good, just tired from dieting. Took a week off after the show to just rest. Then started to hit the weights hard again to prepare for a couple fall shows.
July '07- start dieting for sept. shows. About 4-6 weeks out as I recall I just started to feel really run down and just weak. Toughed it out and did two shows.
Now its been about a month after the shows with a full week+ off of doing nothing I started lifting again and I still just feel run down, wore out, and it seems like my recovery sucks, I have become anti-social, depressed and I have no sex drive, and then I think back and it seems like my sex drive was pretty lacking all summer as well...just never thought much of it.. (no g/f) then I look back and I really havent made very good gains in the gym either. It seems like it has all been going on since spring (maybe before) and that is has finally just hit rock bottom for me.
Supps: which i even stopped taking for 10 days to see if I felt better...no change
-pslin, 4 x a week before weights
-anabolic pump, 1-2 times a day depending on carb intake
-Orange Triad, 6/day
-Xtend, 10 scoops during workout
-Primal N2O, 4/wk before weights
-Super EPA, 6/day
So I had blood work done: mine (reference range)
*Testosterone, free: 7.34 (8.69-54.69 pg/ml)
Calcium: 9.6 (8.9-10.3 mg/dL)
Total protein: 6.1 (6.1-7.9 g/dL)
Albumin: 4.1 (3.5-4.8 g/dL)
alkaline phos: 41 (38-126 U/L)
Bilirubin Total: 1.1 (0.3-1.2 mg/dL)
*AST: 45 (15-41 U/L)
*ALT: 65 (17-63 U/L)
A/G Ratio: 2.1 (1.1-2.1 ratio)
Globulin: 2.0 (2.0-3.7 g/dL)
TSH: 4.85 (0.34-5.60 uIU/mL)
Cholesterol: 130 (90-200 mg/dL)
*Triglycerides: 30 (35-150 mg/dL)
Platelet count: 152
*Neutrophils: 1.5, 48%
Lymphocytes: 1.4, 45%
Monocytes: 0.2, 5%
Eosinophils: .1, 2%
Basophils: 0.0, 0%
RBC Morphology: normal
Carbon Dioxide: 29
Let me know if u need the ranges...got sick of typing them
My Dr. does not like creatine. He said to just stop taking it. "Its not really going to help you that much. You will be leaps and bounds a better bodybuilder once we get your test levels back up to where they should be." He just said we have to find out whether its a primary cause or secondary. Also, testes are of normal size....
Any thoughts for me. My diet during contest prep never dropped below 50g of fat a day. Currently I am taking in 80-100 grams depending on carb intake as well.
- 10-19-2007, 09:06 PM
also, going to have blood drawn tomorrow as close to 8am as possible for:
- 10-19-2007, 09:58 PM
20-30mg Cortef/day (splitted thruout the day), get Cortef 5mg pills.
Slowly ramp up the Cortef over about 2 weeks.
see if that makes a difference.
When doing tests, blood, urine, get ideas from my post #44
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
============================== ============================== =============
add to the script for tommorow's testing, (use your own hand writting):
Change Cortisol AM
that is add
10-19-2007, 10:30 PM
10-20-2007, 11:30 AM
You sound similar to me, actually you and a few others share a lot in common with me. Your bloodwork is almost identical to mine and I'm beginning to see it more and more with people our age. Something's up. One thing is possible overtraining/overdieting. But that doesnt seem like enough to cause everything. I know I have dieted the same way for years and never hit a brick wall like I did this past february.
This is why I think your results are interesting. My test and free test were low (on TRT now), my WBC count mirrors yours and likewise so do the neutrophil count, my RBC count is almost exactly the same, my liver enzymes mirror yours, my thyroid is identical to yours, my alakline phosphotase is very close to yours. You didnt list the ranges for MCV and MCH but one of mine is slightly high (cant remember which). We differ slightly on triglycerides, mine are 50....and on cholesterol, mine is 190. But overall I would look at list and say, hey is that my bloodwork?
Your explanation of your symptoms sounds spot-on with mine. Here's an interesting thing too, you mentioned the virus you had last year. Right around the time I got hammered with my symptoms in february, my dad had a virus that affected his heart. At first we thought it was a heart attack, but they said it was just a virus. He was in the hospital for a few days. I'm wondering if there is a connection. Maybe he had it and I caught a piece, or maybe I had it and passed it off to him. EIther way, it didnt give me heart trouble so I dunno. But interesting nonetheless.
1. Do you get hypoglycemic symptoms?
2. Joint pain?
4. History of stomach/digestion troubles?
5. Notice any changes in skin color (i.e. bronzing of a local area like a patch, or even a general overall tint)?
10-20-2007, 12:46 PM
Your profile is typical of that of a person who uses alot of fish oil not balanced with other essential fats. Look at your platet count and also your alkaline phospotasae they are low. Your zinc levels are in the toilet and are you eating only egg whites are also how many whole eggs a day and red meat. Add in some ZMA and and evening primose oil 1000-1300 mgs 6-8 a day away from fish oils to balance them out. If you are eating fish 3 times a week drop fish oils to 2 a day thats plenty. I will just add you to the number of people to my list..Using fish oils is fine as long as you balnce them in a 2-4:1 ratio with GLA being the higher of the 2. How much flaxseed oil you taking ect ? Your skin is probably dry and cracking as well plus you are probably having bad insomina. Dietary imbalnces are at root cause of your problem as well as mag and zinc deficeincy couple that with over training and undereating you are just opening up the door to bigger problems !!
10-20-2007, 12:53 PM
Maybe you could loosen up on your diet some. Your lipid profile suggests you are overdoing. Low normal triglycerides and total cholesterol of 160-180 would be more healthful. A healthier lipid profile could help your hormone profile.
I think it is premature to say you have adrenal dysfunction. Wait for results of adrenal studies.
10-20-2007, 01:18 PM
10-20-2007, 01:25 PM
10-20-2007, 01:35 PM
10-20-2007, 03:10 PM
10-20-2007, 04:51 PM
10-20-2007, 04:59 PM
I eat a lot of eggs. On average I would say 4-5 whole eggs each day then more whites as well. I don't use flax very often, use a few tbsp in shakes throughout the week. My skin is not dry or cracking at all and I have been sleeping very well. Just wake up to take a leak if I drank a bunch of water that evening.
I took a 10 day break from any exercise at all. I just vegged out, and now my diet is roughly 3,200 cals a day with more carbs around workouts.
Also I should note that my appetite is absolutely outta control. I am so effin hungry...ALL THE TIME!
10-20-2007, 05:11 PM
10-20-2007, 05:13 PM
Today I didnt take any stims at all...no tea or anything and I am going to lay off for a couple weeks to see if that helps. (hey it cant hurt right?)
I think I may drop back to 3 caps of fish oil a day and then add in some borage oil for the GLA content....
10-20-2007, 06:19 PM
Did you notice a change after your illness?
I know quite a bit of people who develop low T after infection / illnes
10-20-2007, 06:53 PM
10-20-2007, 07:22 PM
10-20-2007, 07:59 PM
i bank on the fact that you had a zinc deficiency from over training under eating and excessive oxidative stress from stress on the entire body. You sucked out gluthione levels why your t4 to t3 ratio has dorpped. Since this is needed for thyroid conversion. Do your self a favor what types of EFA's fats did you use during diet (flax or udos ?)
Taking ZMA , GLA , biotin 10 mgs a day should off set alot of your problems and bring body back into homostasis.
BTW did you use ALa or krala doing dieting if so how much ?
Cut fish caps to no more then 1-2 a day depending on dosage
keep GLA at 1000-1300 a day and fish oils to 300 mgs TOTAL for atleast 1- 2 months
Also use hemp seed oil or seeds them selves they are perfect 4:1 ratio as natural intended it to be
10-20-2007, 08:12 PM
What multi did he recommend to you? I am thinking of going with Total EFA for my EFA intake next time I order anything as well...
10-20-2007, 08:12 PM
10-20-2007, 08:13 PM
10-20-2007, 08:17 PM
10-20-2007, 08:26 PM
i just notice your VDL is low which means you are not transporting fats from the liver so hence you are stoing fat in your liver and not burining it and this would be reflective in your liver enzymes as well. GET SOME CHOLINE or LEcithan to help emulsify fats and transport them out of the liver. Sam-e may also help here as well 200 mgs BID to increase gluthione levels. You have semi - self induced fatty liver. Look at your tongu its probably swollen and heavily coated in the middle and red on the sides. Called liver stagnation my freind
10-20-2007, 08:28 PM
10-20-2007, 08:28 PM
10-20-2007, 08:32 PM
And yes, thyroid effects every system in your body just about, and I would not be surprised to learn of thyroid and nuerotransmitter connections that signal food cravings. Havent look for it, but it wouldnt surprise me if it exists.
10-20-2007, 08:34 PM
10-20-2007, 08:35 PM
Estradiol was 26 (0-53)...would you say that this is bad, because it is mid-range? I am sure it has risen since I started test cyp.
Had a GTT, confirmed hypoglycemia. But carbs are no longer low and havent been for about 7 months. The thyroid problems are not due to low carbing, it's something else, maybe simple zinc deficiency.
10-20-2007, 08:37 PM
10-20-2007, 08:37 PM
10-20-2007, 08:39 PM
10-20-2007, 08:40 PM
300 mgs panthitheine x 3
1000 mgs b-5
1000 mgs x 3 ester C a day
theanine 200 mgs x2
low estrogen can cause adrenal fatigue as well plus alter cholesterol levels, triglycerides due to lack of inuslin. Keeping body fat to low for too long will cause low estrogen as well
Low estrogen will also bring protein synthesis to a grinding halt as well as fat metabolism and result in fat being stored not burned. Where you on any anti estrogens id so which ones?
sound to be like prolong imbalanced dieting and self induced hypoglycemia mixed with EC stack caused your adrenal imbalnces. your e2 will be the tell tell story !! bank on it being LOW !! low estrogen increases inuslin sensitivity
10-20-2007, 08:42 PM
10-20-2007, 08:47 PM
10-20-2007, 08:50 PM
EDIT: To make it clear what I mean by crazy slin sensitivity, as I mentioned before, after 75g glucose my blood sugar only goes up to 105 and then drops off to 45. That is extreme insulin sensitivity. But my e2 is not low, and may actually be a little too high.
10-20-2007, 09:13 PM
Hypoglycemia chromium depletion
if you are on a low carb diet for too long your insulin sensitivity will be increased tremendously. you need to make a slow transition and gradually increase carb to 100-150 grams a day to ring up t3 and to drive down reverse t3 if present
why do people with low thryoid have low testosterone could it possible due to improper zinc transport and uptake into the body which would lower LH levels resulting in low testosterone
Point if you are feeling better then you were then that the most important thing !!
correcting thyroid will also correct zinc defiency and at same time correcting zinc defieincy will bring up testosterone and thyroid, and possible adrenals
You know when taking biotin you need b-5 as well other wise it can be depelted since they compete for same receptors. hence 1000 mgs of b-5 a day away from biotin will work just fine
i did alot of resarch on Biotin last night and it was very interesting about how it correlates to both of our situaitoins. First of all it is a known fact that excessive ALA with out biotin causes biotin defieincy. Upon futher investigation it does not matter how many eggs or red meat you suck up or AA untill Biotin has been replenish then your arachonic acid will start to repelete. Now AA is needed for zinc up take by the digestive track and its actually one of the least none but most important transport mechanism for zinc uptake into the cell. With out AA zinc can not be ulitized by the body and the resulting affect is that of lowered of all zinc enzymes :alkaline phosphotase, LH hormone, t4 to t3 conversion, and adrenal cortex hormone as well, not to mention gluthione and problems with methyation as I have preveiously empahisised. Your hyoglycmeia is coming from your increase insulin ssneitivity from the ALA need to just rebalance with biotin.
10-21-2007, 11:29 AM
10-21-2007, 11:31 AM
10-21-2007, 11:52 AM
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