22 years old.....low test

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    22 years old.....low test


    Background info here: (May be irrelavant but this is all I can think of to put here)
    Oct '06- caught a nasty virus which caused pericarditis and ended up in the hospital for 5 days, had a heart cathe...came home..back to the hospital again as throat had ulcers and I couldnt drink anything! Went from 240-215 in a matter of a couple weeks.

    Nov- '06 got back into the gym and lifting and got back up to about 230ish by x-mas
    April '07- did a bb comp weighing about 195. Felt pretty good, just tired from dieting. Took a week off after the show to just rest. Then started to hit the weights hard again to prepare for a couple fall shows.

    July '07- start dieting for sept. shows. About 4-6 weeks out as I recall I just started to feel really run down and just weak. Toughed it out and did two shows.

    Now its been about a month after the shows with a full week+ off of doing nothing I started lifting again and I still just feel run down, wore out, and it seems like my recovery sucks, I have become anti-social, depressed and I have no sex drive, and then I think back and it seems like my sex drive was pretty lacking all summer as well...just never thought much of it.. (no g/f) then I look back and I really havent made very good gains in the gym either. It seems like it has all been going on since spring (maybe before) and that is has finally just hit rock bottom for me.

    Supps: which i even stopped taking for 10 days to see if I felt better...no change
    -pslin, 4 x a week before weights
    -anabolic pump, 1-2 times a day depending on carb intake
    -Orange Triad, 6/day
    -Xtend, 10 scoops during workout
    -Primal N2O, 4/wk before weights
    -Super EPA, 6/day
    -protein powders



    So I had blood work done: mine (reference range)
    *Testosterone, free: 7.34 (8.69-54.69 pg/ml)
    Calcium: 9.6 (8.9-10.3 mg/dL)
    Total protein: 6.1 (6.1-7.9 g/dL)
    Albumin: 4.1 (3.5-4.8 g/dL)
    alkaline phos: 41 (38-126 U/L)
    Bilirubin Total: 1.1 (0.3-1.2 mg/dL)
    *AST: 45 (15-41 U/L)
    *ALT: 65 (17-63 U/L)
    A/G Ratio: 2.1 (1.1-2.1 ratio)
    Globulin: 2.0 (2.0-3.7 g/dL)
    TSH: 4.85 (0.34-5.60 uIU/mL)

    Cholesterol: 130 (90-200 mg/dL)
    *Triglycerides: 30 (35-150 mg/dL)
    HDL: 57
    LDL-C: 67
    VLDL-C: 6

    *WBC: 3.2
    RBC: 4.32
    HGB: 13.8
    HCT: 39.9
    MCV: 92.4
    MCH: 32.0
    MCHC: 34.6
    RDW: 13.9
    Platelet count: 152
    MPV: 10.0
    *Neutrophils: 1.5, 48%
    Lymphocytes: 1.4, 45%
    Monocytes: 0.2, 5%
    Eosinophils: .1, 2%
    Basophils: 0.0, 0%
    RBC Morphology: normal

    Sodium: 141
    Potassium: 4.2
    Chloride: 103
    Carbon Dioxide: 29
    glucose: 83
    *BUN: 27
    *Creatinine: 1.5

    Let me know if u need the ranges...got sick of typing them



    My Dr. does not like creatine. He said to just stop taking it. "Its not really going to help you that much. You will be leaps and bounds a better bodybuilder once we get your test levels back up to where they should be." He just said we have to find out whether its a primary cause or secondary. Also, testes are of normal size....


    Any thoughts for me. My diet during contest prep never dropped below 50g of fat a day. Currently I am taking in 80-100 grams depending on carb intake as well.

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    also, going to have blood drawn tomorrow as close to 8am as possible for:

    Hepatitis panel-active
    Cortisol (AM)
    Ferritin
    FSH
    Iron
    LH
    Prolactin
    Testosterone Total
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    Quote Originally Posted by rysigpi View Post
    Background info here: (May be irrelavant but this is all I can think of to put here)
    Oct '06- caught a nasty virus which caused pericarditis and ended up in the hospital for 5 days, had a heart cathe...came home..back to the hospital again as throat had ulcers and I couldnt drink anything! Went from 240-215 in a matter of a couple weeks.

    Nov- '06 got back into the gym and lifting and got back up to about 230ish by x-mas
    April '07- did a bb comp weighing about 195. Felt pretty good, just tired from dieting. Took a week off after the show to just rest. Then started to hit the weights hard again to prepare for a couple fall shows.

    July '07- start dieting for sept. shows. About 4-6 weeks out as I recall I just started to feel really run down and just weak. Toughed it out and did two shows.

    Now its been about a month after the shows with a full week+ off of doing nothing I started lifting again and I still just feel run down, wore out, and it seems like my recovery sucks, I have become anti-social, depressed and I have no sex drive, and then I think back and it seems like my sex drive was pretty lacking all summer as well...just never thought much of it.. (no g/f) then I look back and I really havent made very good gains in the gym either. It seems like it has all been going on since spring (maybe before) and that is has finally just hit rock bottom for me.

    Supps: which i even stopped taking for 10 days to see if I felt better...no change
    -pslin, 4 x a week before weights
    -anabolic pump, 1-2 times a day depending on carb intake
    -Orange Triad, 6/day
    -Xtend, 10 scoops during workout
    -Primal N2O, 4/wk before weights
    -Super EPA, 6/day
    -protein powders



    So I had blood work done: mine (reference range)
    *Testosterone, free: 7.34 (8.69-54.69 pg/ml)
    Calcium: 9.6 (8.9-10.3 mg/dL)
    Total protein: 6.1 (6.1-7.9 g/dL)
    Albumin: 4.1 (3.5-4.8 g/dL)
    alkaline phos: 41 (38-126 U/L)
    Bilirubin Total: 1.1 (0.3-1.2 mg/dL)
    *AST: 45 (15-41 U/L)
    *ALT: 65 (17-63 U/L)
    A/G Ratio: 2.1 (1.1-2.1 ratio)
    Globulin: 2.0 (2.0-3.7 g/dL)
    TSH: 4.85 (0.34-5.60 uIU/mL)

    Cholesterol: 130 (90-200 mg/dL)
    *Triglycerides: 30 (35-150 mg/dL)
    HDL: 57
    LDL-C: 67
    VLDL-C: 6

    *WBC: 3.2
    RBC: 4.32
    HGB: 13.8
    HCT: 39.9
    MCV: 92.4
    MCH: 32.0
    MCHC: 34.6
    RDW: 13.9
    Platelet count: 152
    MPV: 10.0
    *Neutrophils: 1.5, 48%
    Lymphocytes: 1.4, 45%
    Monocytes: 0.2, 5%
    Eosinophils: .1, 2%
    Basophils: 0.0, 0%
    RBC Morphology: normal

    Sodium: 141
    Potassium: 4.2
    Chloride: 103
    Carbon Dioxide: 29
    glucose: 83
    *BUN: 27
    *Creatinine: 1.5

    Let me know if u need the ranges...got sick of typing them



    My Dr. does not like creatine. He said to just stop taking it. "Its not really going to help you that much. You will be leaps and bounds a better bodybuilder once we get your test levels back up to where they should be." He just said we have to find out whether its a primary cause or secondary. Also, testes are of normal size....


    Any thoughts for me. My diet during contest prep never dropped below 50g of fat a day. Currently I am taking in 80-100 grams depending on carb intake as well.
    Adrenal Fatigue

    20-30mg Cortef/day (splitted thruout the day), get Cortef 5mg pills.
    Slowly ramp up the Cortef over about 2 weeks.

    see if that makes a difference.

    When doing tests, blood, urine, get ideas from my post #44

    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
    ============================== ============================== =============
    add to the script for tommorow's testing, (use your own hand writting):
    SHBG
    E2 sensitive
    FreeT3
    FreeT4


    Change Cortisol AM
    to
    Cortisol AM/PM
    that is add
    /PM
    ---------
    •   
       

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    Thank you.
    I imagine I should lay off any caffiene/ other stims?
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    You sound similar to me, actually you and a few others share a lot in common with me. Your bloodwork is almost identical to mine and I'm beginning to see it more and more with people our age. Something's up. One thing is possible overtraining/overdieting. But that doesnt seem like enough to cause everything. I know I have dieted the same way for years and never hit a brick wall like I did this past february.

    This is why I think your results are interesting. My test and free test were low (on TRT now), my WBC count mirrors yours and likewise so do the neutrophil count, my RBC count is almost exactly the same, my liver enzymes mirror yours, my thyroid is identical to yours, my alakline phosphotase is very close to yours. You didnt list the ranges for MCV and MCH but one of mine is slightly high (cant remember which). We differ slightly on triglycerides, mine are 50....and on cholesterol, mine is 190. But overall I would look at list and say, hey is that my bloodwork?

    Your explanation of your symptoms sounds spot-on with mine. Here's an interesting thing too, you mentioned the virus you had last year. Right around the time I got hammered with my symptoms in february, my dad had a virus that affected his heart. At first we thought it was a heart attack, but they said it was just a virus. He was in the hospital for a few days. I'm wondering if there is a connection. Maybe he had it and I caught a piece, or maybe I had it and passed it off to him. EIther way, it didnt give me heart trouble so I dunno. But interesting nonetheless.

    Couple questions:

    1. Do you get hypoglycemic symptoms?
    2. Joint pain?
    3. Irritable/moody/depressed?
    4. History of stomach/digestion troubles?
    5. Notice any changes in skin color (i.e. bronzing of a local area like a patch, or even a general overall tint)?
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    Your profile is typical of that of a person who uses alot of fish oil not balanced with other essential fats. Look at your platet count and also your alkaline phospotasae they are low. Your zinc levels are in the toilet and are you eating only egg whites are also how many whole eggs a day and red meat. Add in some ZMA and and evening primose oil 1000-1300 mgs 6-8 a day away from fish oils to balance them out. If you are eating fish 3 times a week drop fish oils to 2 a day thats plenty. I will just add you to the number of people to my list..Using fish oils is fine as long as you balnce them in a 2-4:1 ratio with GLA being the higher of the 2. How much flaxseed oil you taking ect ? Your skin is probably dry and cracking as well plus you are probably having bad insomina. Dietary imbalnces are at root cause of your problem as well as mag and zinc deficeincy couple that with over training and undereating you are just opening up the door to bigger problems !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by rysigpi View Post
    Background info here: (May be irrelavant but this is all I can think of to put here)
    Oct '06- caught a nasty virus which caused pericarditis and ended up in the hospital for 5 days, had a heart cathe...came home..back to the hospital again as throat had ulcers and I couldnt drink anything! Went from 240-215 in a matter of a couple weeks.

    Nov- '06 got back into the gym and lifting and got back up to about 230ish by x-mas
    April '07- did a bb comp weighing about 195. Felt pretty good, just tired from dieting. Took a week off after the show to just rest. Then started to hit the weights hard again to prepare for a couple fall shows.

    July '07- start dieting for sept. shows. About 4-6 weeks out as I recall I just started to feel really run down and just weak. Toughed it out and did two shows.

    Now its been about a month after the shows with a full week+ off of doing nothing I started lifting again and I still just feel run down, wore out, and it seems like my recovery sucks, I have become anti-social, depressed and I have no sex drive, and then I think back and it seems like my sex drive was pretty lacking all summer as well...just never thought much of it.. (no g/f) then I look back and I really havent made very good gains in the gym either. It seems like it has all been going on since spring (maybe before) and that is has finally just hit rock bottom for me.

    Supps: which i even stopped taking for 10 days to see if I felt better...no change
    -pslin, 4 x a week before weights
    -anabolic pump, 1-2 times a day depending on carb intake
    -Orange Triad, 6/day
    -Xtend, 10 scoops during workout
    -Primal N2O, 4/wk before weights
    -Super EPA, 6/day
    -protein powders



    So I had blood work done: mine (reference range)
    *Testosterone, free: 7.34 (8.69-54.69 pg/ml)
    Calcium: 9.6 (8.9-10.3 mg/dL)
    Total protein: 6.1 (6.1-7.9 g/dL)
    Albumin: 4.1 (3.5-4.8 g/dL)
    alkaline phos: 41 (38-126 U/L)
    Bilirubin Total: 1.1 (0.3-1.2 mg/dL)
    *AST: 45 (15-41 U/L)
    *ALT: 65 (17-63 U/L)
    A/G Ratio: 2.1 (1.1-2.1 ratio)
    Globulin: 2.0 (2.0-3.7 g/dL)
    TSH: 4.85 (0.34-5.60 uIU/mL)

    Cholesterol: 130 (90-200 mg/dL)
    *Triglycerides: 30 (35-150 mg/dL)
    HDL: 57
    LDL-C: 67
    VLDL-C: 6

    *WBC: 3.2
    RBC: 4.32
    HGB: 13.8
    HCT: 39.9
    MCV: 92.4
    MCH: 32.0
    MCHC: 34.6
    RDW: 13.9
    Platelet count: 152
    MPV: 10.0
    *Neutrophils: 1.5, 48%
    Lymphocytes: 1.4, 45%
    Monocytes: 0.2, 5%
    Eosinophils: .1, 2%
    Basophils: 0.0, 0%
    RBC Morphology: normal

    Sodium: 141
    Potassium: 4.2
    Chloride: 103
    Carbon Dioxide: 29
    glucose: 83
    *BUN: 27
    *Creatinine: 1.5

    Let me know if u need the ranges...got sick of typing them



    My Dr. does not like creatine. He said to just stop taking it. "Its not really going to help you that much. You will be leaps and bounds a better bodybuilder once we get your test levels back up to where they should be." He just said we have to find out whether its a primary cause or secondary. Also, testes are of normal size....


    Any thoughts for me. My diet during contest prep never dropped below 50g of fat a day. Currently I am taking in 80-100 grams depending on carb intake as well.

    Maybe you could loosen up on your diet some. Your lipid profile suggests you are overdoing. Low normal triglycerides and total cholesterol of 160-180 would be more healthful. A healthier lipid profile could help your hormone profile.

    I think it is premature to say you have adrenal dysfunction. Wait for results of adrenal studies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    Maybe you could loosen up on your diet some. Your lipid profile suggests you are overdoing. Low normal triglycerides and total cholesterol of 160-180 would be more healthful. A healthier lipid profile could help your hormone profile.

    I think it is premature to say you have adrenal dysfunction. Wait for results of adrenal studies.
    the caffine and ephederine can deplete melatonin and cause neurotransmitters imbalnces as well. I have been down that road as well. May be add some ALC to help balance things out. Keep up this patterna and your digestion is going to take hit next and you will be losing all that muscle mass as I did over 70lbs of it to be exact
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Your profile is typical of that of a person who uses alot of fish oil not balanced with other essential fats. Look at your platet count and also your alkaline phospotasae they are low. Your zinc levels are in the toilet and are you eating only egg whites are also how many whole eggs a day and red meat. Add in some ZMA and and evening primose oil 1000-1300 mgs 6-8 a day away from fish oils to balance them out. If you are eating fish 3 times a week drop fish oils to 2 a day thats plenty. I will just add you to the number of people to my list..Using fish oils is fine as long as you balnce them in a 2-4:1 ratio with GLA being the higher of the 2. How much flaxseed oil you taking ect ? Your skin is probably dry and cracking as well plus you are probably having bad insomina. Dietary imbalnces are at root cause of your problem as well as mag and zinc deficeincy couple that with over training and undereating you are just opening up the door to bigger problems !!


    Where did he report a zinc level? Or are you speculating that his zinc level is low?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Your profile is typical of that of a person who uses alot of fish oil not balanced with other essential fats. Look at your platet count and also your alkaline phospotasae they are low. Your zinc levels are in the toilet and are you eating only egg whites are also how many whole eggs a day and red meat. Add in some ZMA and and evening primose oil 1000-1300 mgs 6-8 a day away from fish oils to balance them out. If you are eating fish 3 times a week drop fish oils to 2 a day thats plenty. I will just add you to the number of people to my list..Using fish oils is fine as long as you balnce them in a 2-4:1 ratio with GLA being the higher of the 2. How much flaxseed oil you taking ect ? Your skin is probably dry and cracking as well plus you are probably having bad insomina. Dietary imbalnces are at root cause of your problem as well as mag and zinc deficeincy couple that with over training and undereating you are just opening up the door to bigger problems !!
    HAN your fish oil theory doesnt apply to me and my blood is very close to his. I take 3 fish oil caps a day (3g) and I eat 8 egg yolks a day. If anything I'm under-doing the fish oils in comparison to other fats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    HAN your fish oil theory doesnt apply to me and my blood is very close to his. I take 3 fish oil caps a day (3g) and I eat 8 egg yolks a day. If anything I'm under-doing the fish oils in comparison to other fats.
    I've been eating about 2 dozen eggs a week and thought that was a lot. What's the hypothesis on 8 yolks a day?

    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    You sound similar to me, actually you and a few others share a lot in common with me. Your bloodwork is almost identical to mine and I'm beginning to see it more and more with people our age. Something's up. One thing is possible overtraining/overdieting. But that doesnt seem like enough to cause everything. I know I have dieted the same way for years and never hit a brick wall like I did this past february.

    This is why I think your results are interesting. My test and free test were low (on TRT now), my WBC count mirrors yours and likewise so do the neutrophil count, my RBC count is almost exactly the same, my liver enzymes mirror yours, my thyroid is identical to yours, my alakline phosphotase is very close to yours. You didnt list the ranges for MCV and MCH (ranges are MCV (80-99fL) and MCH (27-34pg) but one of mine is slightly high (cant remember which). We differ slightly on triglycerides, mine are 50....and on cholesterol, mine is 190. But overall I would look at list and say, hey is that my bloodwork?

    Your explanation of your symptoms sounds spot-on with mine. Here's an interesting thing too, you mentioned the virus you had last year. Right around the time I got hammered with my symptoms in february, my dad had a virus that affected his heart. At first we thought it was a heart attack, but they said it was just a virus. He was in the hospital for a few days. I'm wondering if there is a connection. Maybe he had it and I caught a piece, or maybe I had it and passed it off to him. EIther way, it didnt give me heart trouble so I dunno. But interesting nonetheless.

    Very weird coincidences.

    Couple questions:

    1. Do you get hypoglycemic symptoms? When I stand real quick quite often I get light headed and feel out of it.
    2. Joint pain? no
    3. Irritable/moody/depressed? YES, also quite anti-social as well
    4. History of stomach/digestion troubles? no
    5. Notice any changes in skin color (i.e. bronzing of a local area like a patch, or even a general overall tint)?
    nope
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Your profile is typical of that of a person who uses alot of fish oil not balanced with other essential fats. Look at your platet count and also your alkaline phospotasae they are low. Your zinc levels are in the toilet and are you eating only egg whites are also how many whole eggs a day and red meat. Add in some ZMA and and evening primose oil 1000-1300 mgs 6-8 a day away from fish oils to balance them out. If you are eating fish 3 times a week drop fish oils to 2 a day thats plenty. I will just add you to the number of people to my list..Using fish oils is fine as long as you balnce them in a 2-4:1 ratio with GLA being the higher of the 2. How much flaxseed oil you taking ect ? Your skin is probably dry and cracking as well plus you are probably having bad insomina. Dietary imbalnces are at root cause of your problem as well as mag and zinc deficeincy couple that with over training and undereating you are just opening up the door to bigger problems !!
    -They never tested for zinc levels in that blood test.

    I eat a lot of eggs. On average I would say 4-5 whole eggs each day then more whites as well. I don't use flax very often, use a few tbsp in shakes throughout the week. My skin is not dry or cracking at all and I have been sleeping very well. Just wake up to take a leak if I drank a bunch of water that evening.

    I took a 10 day break from any exercise at all. I just vegged out, and now my diet is roughly 3,200 cals a day with more carbs around workouts.

    Also I should note that my appetite is absolutely outta control. I am so effin hungry...ALL THE TIME!
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    Maybe you could loosen up on your diet some. Your lipid profile suggests you are overdoing. Low normal triglycerides and total cholesterol of 160-180 would be more healthful. A healthier lipid profile could help your hormone profile.

    I think it is premature to say you have adrenal dysfunction. Wait for results of adrenal studies.
    Diet is a bit looser now.
    Weight days are about 250g protein, 500g carbs, 80g fat
    non weight days are about 300g protein, 150g carbs, 100g fat

    Also have been going out to eat once a week as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    the caffine and ephederine can deplete melatonin and cause neurotransmitters imbalnces as well. I have been down that road as well. May be add some ALC to help balance things out. Keep up this patterna and your digestion is going to take hit next and you will be losing all that muscle mass as I did over 70lbs of it to be exact
    I stopped all caffiene intake (other than about 2 cups of green tea a day) for about 10 days. For 10 days there I stopped all supps, didnt lift or do cardio, and cut the caffiene to almost none....

    Today I didnt take any stims at all...no tea or anything and I am going to lay off for a couple weeks to see if that helps. (hey it cant hurt right?)

    I think I may drop back to 3 caps of fish oil a day and then add in some borage oil for the GLA content....
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    Did you notice a change after your illness?

    I know quite a bit of people who develop low T after infection / illnes
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECTOmorph View Post
    Did you notice a change after your illness?

    I know quite a bit of people who develop low T after infection / illnes
    Right after my illness I dont think I noticed a change. I was dating a girl in the beginning of this year and "it" was working then...although it seemed to take forever to get off but I believe that was due to the meds they had me on (Altace). It seems like this is something that has just slowly happened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rysigpi View Post
    When I stand real quick quite often I get light headed and feel out of it.
    Add that to the list of similarities then. I had a glucose tolerance test done and my sugar drops off really quickly after 2 hours. The weird thing is that it never rises like you would see in a case of insulin resistance. The highest it ever went was 105 and then shot down to 45. You may wanna look into a GTT, although from my experience the most "treatment" you will get for hypoglycemia is the doc telling you to follow a diet that you most likely already follow (frequent meals, complex carbs, no junk).
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Add that to the list of similarities then. I had a glucose tolerance test done and my sugar drops off really quickly after 2 hours. The weird thing is that it never rises like you would see in a case of insulin resistance. The highest it ever went was 105 and then shot down to 45. You may wanna look into a GTT, although from my experience the most "treatment" you will get for hypoglycemia is the doc telling you to follow a diet that you most likely already follow (frequent meals, complex carbs, no junk).

    i bank on the fact that you had a zinc deficiency from over training under eating and excessive oxidative stress from stress on the entire body. You sucked out gluthione levels why your t4 to t3 ratio has dorpped. Since this is needed for thyroid conversion. Do your self a favor what types of EFA's fats did you use during diet (flax or udos ?)

    Taking ZMA , GLA , biotin 10 mgs a day should off set alot of your problems and bring body back into homostasis.

    Alkaline Phosphatase

    BTW did you use ALa or krala doing dieting if so how much ?
    Cut fish caps to no more then 1-2 a day depending on dosage
    keep GLA at 1000-1300 a day and fish oils to 300 mgs TOTAL for atleast 1- 2 months
    Also use hemp seed oil or seeds them selves they are perfect 4:1 ratio as natural intended it to be
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    What multi did he recommend to you? I am thinking of going with Total EFA for my EFA intake next time I order anything as well...
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I have started ZMA and switched to the multi you recommended. No more animal pak. I used fish oil during dieting and still do, always have. No flax. I will say the ZMA has already started to give me deeper sleep. You think ZMA alone will bring my T3 back up?
    Yes zinc defieincy take about 2-3 months at 50-80 mgs a day to fully recovery depending on intestinal transport is intact as your seems to be. You are ok with fish oils because you are off setting them with the eggs which is excellent idea. rysigpi on the other hand (untill I thorughly probe his contest prep) may not be as safe to use them. I need to know how strong the fish oils were !! I'm glad to see you making progress and getting back on the right track. Did you also use ALA and krala alot? remember if you did you need to offset with biotin at leat 10 mgs a day. Biotin will not hurt you there are no toxcities and aids in hypoglycemia too. Just hang in there bud things will balnace out. Also zinc is needed for thymus and WBC counts as well !! Which rysigpi is really depelted in. I'm glad to see things are progressing.. i would not be surprised if you testosterone comes up as well as your alkaline phosphotase too. My levels where low until I got my zinc levels up. Look for whie spots on fingernails too as possible indicator they should disappear as zinc gets repleted
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    Quote Originally Posted by rysigpi View Post
    What multi did he recommend to you? I am thinking of going with Total EFA for my EFA intake next time I order anything as well...
    Total EFA is still incorrect balance stick to hempseed oil it tastes a hell of alot better and will not cause a balance over a life time of use. Oryou will be back in the same boat as you were before
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    i bank on the fact that you had a zinc deficiency from over training under eating and excessive oxidative stress from stress on the entire body. You sucked out gluthione levels why your t4 to t3 ratio has dorpped. Since this is needed for thyroid conversion. Do your self a favor what types of EFA's fats did you use during diet (flax or udos ?)

    Taking ZMA , GLA , biotin 10 mgs a day should off set alot of your problems and bring body back into homostasis.

    Alkaline Phosphatase

    BTW did you use ALa or krala doing dieting if so how much ?
    Cut fish caps to no more then 1-2 a day depending on dosage
    keep GLA at 1000-1300 a day and fish oils to 300 mgs TOTAL for atleast 1- 2 months
    Also use hemp seed oil or seeds them selves they are perfect 4:1 ratio as natural intended it to be

    I didnt use ala or krala at all during my diet. I will pick up some borage oil soon, very rich in GLA. Thanks for your help thus far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rysigpi View Post
    I didnt use ala or krala at all during my diet. I will pick up some borage oil soon, very rich in GLA. Thanks for your help thus far.
    Use evening primose oil you have to take alot more and all clincal studies are done with EPO not borage. Yes borage is higher in gla but its less bioavialble to the body.
    i just notice your VDL is low which means you are not transporting fats from the liver so hence you are stoing fat in your liver and not burining it and this would be reflective in your liver enzymes as well. GET SOME CHOLINE or LEcithan to help emulsify fats and transport them out of the liver. Sam-e may also help here as well 200 mgs BID to increase gluthione levels. You have semi - self induced fatty liver. Look at your tongu its probably swollen and heavily coated in the middle and red on the sides. Called liver stagnation my freind
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Use evening primose oil you have to take alot more and all clincal studies are done with EPO not borage. Yes borage is higher in gla but its less bioavialble to the body.
    Rock on! Any products that contain ZMA and biotin together?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rysigpi View Post
    What multi did he recommend to you? I am thinking of going with Total EFA for my EFA intake next time I order anything as well...
    He recommended Country Life Max for men, mainly because animal pak contains several vitamins in forms that arent easily absorbed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rysigpi View Post
    I guess the thyroid and adrenals can affect your whole body then, no? On another note, was/ is your appetite absolutely outta control?? Mine is terrible...I can barely control myself to keep from eating myself sick it seems....
    Yes it is unreal, that is due to the low blood sugar. I am constantly hungry, and it isnt a "normal" hunger where you just want food, it is like an addictive hunger where you want to binge eat a ton of junk. On my cheat days, I consume 8000 cals and even though my stomach is full my brain wants more.

    And yes, thyroid effects every system in your body just about, and I would not be surprised to learn of thyroid and nuerotransmitter connections that signal food cravings. Havent look for it, but it wouldnt surprise me if it exists.
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    Anyone ever heard/used Reset-AD. Suppossed to help with adrenal fatigue..
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    What was your shbg?
    t3 is mainly gluthione depletion which ZMA will help with so will sam-e, nac, p5p
    zinc feeds the pituitary so it can actually cause adrenal secretions
    SHBG was 28 (13-71)

    Estradiol was 26 (0-53)...would you say that this is bad, because it is mid-range? I am sure it has risen since I started test cyp.

    Had a GTT, confirmed hypoglycemia. But carbs are no longer low and havent been for about 7 months. The thyroid problems are not due to low carbing, it's something else, maybe simple zinc deficiency.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Yes it is unreal, that is due to the low blood sugar. I am constantly hungry, and it isnt a "normal" hunger where you just want food, it is like an addictive hunger where you want to binge eat a ton of junk. On my cheat days, I consume 8000 cals and even though my stomach is full my brain wants more.

    And yes, thyroid effects every system in your body just about, and I would not be surprised to learn of thyroid and nuerotransmitter connections that signal food cravings. Havent look for it, but it wouldnt surprise me if it exists.

    OMG!!! Seriously I have soooo much will power and would eat dog pooh if I knew it would help me make gains....but lately my hunger is outta control. I just crammed myself full for the past 1.5 hours and i still want more. My stomach is bulging and I want more food....
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    Quote Originally Posted by rysigpi View Post
    Anyone ever heard/used Reset-AD. Suppossed to help with adrenal fatigue..
    Yes I have heard of it but dont get on anything new now, wait for proper testing to be done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rysigpi View Post
    OMG!!! Seriously I have soooo much will power and would eat dog pooh if I knew it would help me make gains....but lately my hunger is outta control. I just crammed myself full for the past 1.5 hours and i still want more. My stomach is bulging and I want more food....
    Same here man, you are the same as me almost to a T. My best advice is to take that same determination I know you have in the gym and apply it to getting healthy. Learn and research. I am damn sure gonna get myself normal again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rysigpi View Post
    Anyone ever heard/used Reset-AD. Suppossed to help with adrenal fatigue..
    For adrenals
    300 mgs panthitheine x 3
    1000 mgs b-5
    1000 mgs x 3 ester C a day
    theanine 200 mgs x2

    low estrogen can cause adrenal fatigue as well plus alter cholesterol levels, triglycerides due to lack of inuslin. Keeping body fat to low for too long will cause low estrogen as well

    Low estrogen will also bring protein synthesis to a grinding halt as well as fat metabolism and result in fat being stored not burned. Where you on any anti estrogens id so which ones?

    sound to be like prolong imbalanced dieting and self induced hypoglycemia mixed with EC stack caused your adrenal imbalnces. your e2 will be the tell tell story !! bank on it being LOW !! low estrogen increases inuslin sensitivity
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    For adrenals
    300 mgs panthitheine x 3
    1000 mgs b-5
    1000 mgs x 3 ester C a day
    theanine 200 mgs x2

    low estrogen can cause adrenal fatigue as well plus alter cholesterol levels, triglycerides due to lack of inuslin. Keeping body fat to low for too long will cause low estrogen as well

    Low estrogen will also bring protein synthesis to a grinding halt as well as fat metabolism and result in fat being stored not burned. Where you on any anti estrogens id so which ones?

    No anti-e's. The only supps I have been using and used during my contest diet were:
    -ap and pslin
    -orange triad multi vit.
    -super epa fish oils
    -dialene 4
    -xtend
    -primal n2o

    ..thats it
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    Quote Originally Posted by rysigpi View Post
    No anti-e's. The only supps I have been using and used during my contest diet were:
    -ap and pslin
    -orange triad multi vit.
    -super epa fish oils
    -dialene 4
    -xtend
    -primal n2o

    ..thats it
    People on low carb low fats diets have increased rt3 from starvation mood and honestly going up and down with caloiric intake during offseason and fluctuating by 1000-1500 caloires is asking for trouble, 200-500 is fine. Bring your diet back to a 40/40/20 diet and keep it there for 4 weeks and if you get a little soft just add cardio in. STOP FLUCUTATING SO MUCH KEEP IT SIMPLE. Keep protein 300-400 and carbs 200-300 and fats 70-100> YOU ARE STILL DIETING !!! GIVE BODY A BREAK !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post

    sound to be like prolong imbalanced dieting and self induced hypoglycemia mixed with EC stack caused your adrenal imbalnces. your e2 will be the tell tell story !! bank on it being LOW !! low estrogen increases inuslin sensitivity
    This may be true, but to add a different perspective, there are no guarantees. I have crazy slin sensitivity but mid-range E2. And I would not bank on adrenal fatigue. Get proper testing, do not assume.

    EDIT: To make it clear what I mean by crazy slin sensitivity, as I mentioned before, after 75g glucose my blood sugar only goes up to 105 and then drops off to 45. That is extreme insulin sensitivity. But my e2 is not low, and may actually be a little too high.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    This may be true, but to add a different perspective, there are no guarantees. I have crazy slin sensitivity but mid-range E2. And I would not bank on adrenal fatigue. Get proper testing, do not assume.

    EDIT: To make it clear what I mean by crazy slin sensitivity, as I mentioned before, after 75g glucose my blood sugar only goes up to 105 and then drops off to 45. That is extreme insulin sensitivity. But my e2 is not low, and may actually be a little too high.
    TRue zinc defiency will also cause insulin abnomalities too and here is the kicker. If you are low thyroid you can not uptake zinc efficienctly from the intestinal track and with out zinc thyroid does not function properly. one vicous cycle. What came first the chicken or the egg

    Hypoglycemia chromium depletion
    if you are on a low carb diet for too long your insulin sensitivity will be increased tremendously. you need to make a slow transition and gradually increase carb to 100-150 grams a day to ring up t3 and to drive down reverse t3 if present

    why do people with low thryoid have low testosterone could it possible due to improper zinc transport and uptake into the body which would lower LH levels resulting in low testosterone
    HMMMMMMM

    Point if you are feeling better then you were then that the most important thing !!
    correcting thyroid will also correct zinc defiency and at same time correcting zinc defieincy will bring up testosterone and thyroid, and possible adrenals

    FYI!!
    You know when taking biotin you need b-5 as well other wise it can be depelted since they compete for same receptors. hence 1000 mgs of b-5 a day away from biotin will work just fine

    Cf10
    i did alot of resarch on Biotin last night and it was very interesting about how it correlates to both of our situaitoins. First of all it is a known fact that excessive ALA with out biotin causes biotin defieincy. Upon futher investigation it does not matter how many eggs or red meat you suck up or AA untill Biotin has been replenish then your arachonic acid will start to repelete. Now AA is needed for zinc up take by the digestive track and its actually one of the least none but most important transport mechanism for zinc uptake into the cell. With out AA zinc can not be ulitized by the body and the resulting affect is that of lowered of all zinc enzymes :alkaline phosphotase, LH hormone, t4 to t3 conversion, and adrenal cortex hormone as well, not to mention gluthione and problems with methyation as I have preveiously empahisised. Your hyoglycmeia is coming from your increase insulin ssneitivity from the ALA need to just rebalance with biotin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Well he may want you to organic acids test if he does DO IT !! It will reveal alot.. LEt him guide you I have done as much as I can ..Atleast I have got you back on track so thats a big start !!
    http://www.gdx.net/home/assessments/fattyacids/reports/
    Essential and Metabolic Fatty Acids Analysis (RBC)

    Next on my list
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    http://www.gdx.net/home/assessments/fattyacids/reports/
    Essential and Metabolic Fatty Acids Analysis (RBC)

    Next on my list
    i recommend that one first to every body it priority for optimal body functioning . If cell membrane is altered no nutrients can get in and toxins can not get out ..
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    ..Atleast I have got you back on track so thats a big start !!
    Yep you sure have. I cant thank you enough for the help.
  

  
 

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