Varicoceles - New Research & Findings
- 02-04-2008, 12:37 PM
- 02-04-2008, 12:57 PM
- 02-05-2008, 02:33 PM
02-05-2008, 03:40 PM
02-22-2008, 02:21 PM
We have not heard from Megazoid in a while .... Wonder how he is doing ....
Maybe we need to have a chime in for all .... Let everyone know how things are progressing ?
I finally found a place on the net to get the nolvadex .... So I am going to give that a try when it comes in ....
All and All my head seems to be more and more clear of thought and not as depressed as before .....
02-23-2008, 10:32 PM
03-02-2008, 02:08 PM
I've just scheduled my Varicoceles surgery for the end of May. It is not either the embolization or the traditional.
"Laparoscopic varicocele ligation has been performed by many urologists, and reports from several medical centers have been published. The data suggest that laparoscopic varicocele ligation is therapeutically superior to open surgical and radiographic (embolization) techniques. Laparoscopic varicocelectomy appears to reduce postoperative morbidity. Whether it is necessary to identify and preserve the testicular artery during laparoscopic varicocelectomy remains controver*sial. Loughlin and Brooks reported on the use of a laparoscopic Doppler probe that they believe facilitates the identification and preservation of the testicular artery. Matsuda and coworkers claim that the testicular artery does not have to be preserved; they clip the testicular artery and veins en bloc. Further multicenter experience is needed to resolve whether the testicular artery should be preserved dur*ing laparoscopic varicocele ligation. Because the testicular artery is preserved during open surgical repair or radiographic embolization procedures. We generally preserve the testicular artery during varicocelectomy."
You could read more about it and see pictures here:
03-04-2008, 12:54 PM
That is too funny .... When I went to the interventional raiologist for a consult on the embolization procedure, I asked him if there was a method similar to what this article describes and said no .... I think i would have liked this procedure better than the Micro-Surgery I elected ....
03-13-2008, 10:39 AM
Hey i am 21 years old and i was diagnosed with a first degree varicocele. I have had pain for about 2 weeks about a month ago, and thats when i went to check it out. And the doctor said i should refrain from lifting weights for about six months. I just want to know? did any of you guys continue to lift weights, even though you had the varicocele? does bodybuilding make it worse? i havent been to the gym in two months. and thats driving me crazy.
I dont feel the pain now, even though it comes every once and a while. but i have noticed that when i ejaculate there isnt much pressure? is that because of the varicocele?
03-13-2008, 11:09 AM
For me .... I noticed pain after orgasm\ejecatulation .... I had a Grade 3 on Left side and Grade 1 on Right .... I had the thing for months, maybe a year at most .... I started having ED issues .... For your Grade 1 I would suggest getting some pycogynol and wearing a jock strap instead of underwear .... That helped me at first and subdued the pain a bit, but I was in a more severe situation than you .... I would lift if you want to lift, I just would not push myself beyond my limits, mainly just to keep tone .... IE I lifted 100, I would cut that to 50 .... It is the straining .... I would also recommend that you lay down for about 30 minutes before work out and an hour after to releive the pressure .... Just my thoughts ....
03-13-2008, 11:41 AM
Yeah my situation is not as bad as yours, but are things better now, i mean after the surgery? i don't know if i should get one or wait until later, cause i read on many websites that varicocele will worsen in time.
But i guess i will wear a jock strap. did you work out before the surgery? and if you did do you feel more pain?
03-13-2008, 11:49 AM
Yes .... There was more pain associated with working out .... But the lying down before and after helped a little .... If you are a Grade 1, I would be concerned if it got larger .... Most urologists won't even look at it from the point of view that it could harm your testes .... So Unfortunately you are in a worse position than me in that respect .... With mine it was pain and Grade 3 .... Bilateral at that .... You are most likely stuck at waiting until it gets larger and then a doc will take the pain and size into consideration for the surgical route .... I have the microsurgery .... LeanGuy had the Embolization I beleive .... We both had it done around the same time and from what he has written on here seems we are both progressing well .... I still have anxiety and ED issues .... The Endo i went to says I am normal and that it is in my head .... So I decided to go back on the welbutrin and see if it really is in my head .... I know it isn't but at least if I go on it again for a month or two or three .... It is harder for them to say it is in my head if i am on a head med .... SMILE .... Sides the welbutrin really did help me for the three months before I had the surgery done .... Right now I am on pycogonal, 1000mg l-arginine and welbutrin .... i have buspar and ativan for the anxiety .... I just started back today on the welbutrin .... Still himing and hawing over starting the Nolvadex ....
No history of steroids .... At all ....
03-13-2008, 12:05 PM
Thanks a lot man. i am glad that the surgery went well. and i wish you all the luck with the Ed and anxiety. i don't know much about the medication for those. And i dont think its all in your head. and hopefully knowing that your varicocele is better will help ease those issues.
03-13-2008, 12:38 PM
I am just seeing this thread too.. Great info.. I was diagnosed with v.c. about 7 years ago and was brushed off by my urologist.. I had a sperm count of zero and test level of 201.. I was honest and told him I had used aas steriods over the years and that I had low test since around 21, but he did not care.. Said I had done this to myself and left it at that.. I had issue's before I ever did juice..
I found an endo and he has taken care of me ever since very nicely ( and I was honest with him too.. ).. I had no idea that the vc was harmful to the boys though.. Funny thing, first appointment with the endo and he said " You have small testicles", with my newly married wife setting in there.. Oh that one hurt.. Now I see maybe why they are "smaller" than average..
I also see a difference from time to time in size.. Sometimses they seem to be much larger than others.. Seems like Clomid really makes them bigger.. Could just be my immagination..
Im going to discuss this with my endo, in 4 months when I go back to see him..
03-13-2008, 03:38 PM
The thing I hate is that my TT is 293 (241-827) He says because i am overweight that I am normal .... If I do the math, on average, and I am not average, as I am overweight, 14.5% loss of T over 10 years 251 puts me at TRT at 46 ....
So for the next ten years, unless my boys start working better, which may happen, although I may be too optimistic, I have the T of a 60YO .... I made another appointment with another Endo .... Second opinion .... I had to do the same thing for the urologist .... First one was useless ....
Can someone tell me what the scale is for Calculated Free T and Calculated bioavailable T would be ? I am 7.81 ng/dl and 183 ng/dl (respectively)
03-13-2008, 05:41 PM
Try locating osteopath.
If you did thise tests at Quest diagnostics:
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)
You would be good and happy if you had:
FreeE2(0.45 - 0.6)
If natural or on HCG only
FreeT over 160
If on supplemented Testosterone
FreeT (250 - 300)
better indicator would be
If you had above results and still had problems,
you should keep above at those levels
look for other reasons.
03-18-2008, 11:53 AM
Okay .... My ....
Calculated Free T is 7.81 ng/dl
Calculated BioAvailable T is 183 ng/dl
No reference ranges given ....
Tests done at LabCorp - Directed By Endo .... Said the Labs I had done at the hospital testing center were wrong/not done correctly ....
Testosterone, Free/Tot Equilib
Testosterone, Serum is 293ng/dl (241-827)
Testosterone, Free is 10.25ng/dl (5.00-21.00)
% Free Testosterone is 3.50 (1.50-4.20)
LH is 3.8mIU/ml (1.5-9.3)
TSH is .935iI/ml (0.350-5.500) Grandmother on Mother's side has Grave's disease.
SHBG, Serum 18nmol/L (13-71)
So JanSZ .... Should I be a happy camper ? Or is there still something not right .... I am not on anything but the following
Wellbutrin 150mg daily (Seems to help with the brain fog and anxiety issues)
L-Arginine 1000mg daily (Helps the Nitric Oxide from what I have read, essential for erection)
Pycogynol 60mg daily (Helps with vein strength from what I have read)
Daily multi Vit
I think the TT is low .... and the calculated numbers seem low but I do not have reference ranges to go on ....
I bought some Tamoxifen Citrate BP 30.4mg tablets and have not yet tried them .... Kinda a wimp about trying them ....
My confidence and mind seem to either adjusting to the new T levels or my T levels are increasing slightly as time goes by since my surgery .... Or the wellbutrin is just masking the issues ....
I started back on the wellbutrin on the 13th of March ....
04-19-2008, 05:12 PM
my testis are left is smaller than right. they both shrank on bold2oo majorly... didnt take any trib with that run.. i have been taking tribulus for a year now and the boys seem to work just fine.. i may be a odd case here... i take ph's then do pct and all seem to be fine... i do however take trib through out the entire cycle... i found that the best pct for me is the mass fx hyperdrol retain stack...gained more lean muscle on the pct... i have gone from 145lbs this time last year to 175 now... i dont have any bad side effects to speak of... maybe im the exception to the rule.. not sure... but i plan on running h drol and trenadrol in a week and gaining 7-10 lean lbs... my labido gets better on trib on dhea i get really angry... so i stay away from that... my body really likes trenadrol... responds to in great.. does not really respond to the superdrol all that well... mostly water weight... got the flu right after pct and lost 11lbs and all the strength with it... so i will not be taking it again...
good luck fellas
04-19-2008, 06:46 PM
04-21-2008, 01:23 PM
I was put on Androgel 4 pumps a day, on April 4 08 .... I was doing 20MG Nolvadex on M-W-F for the first week then cut it out and went just to Androgel .... My first week and a half was AWESOME ! .... I am now in my thrid week and not so great .... Although my head is better depression is clear ED is spotty at best ....
I was wondering if anyone else has combined the nolvadex with Adrogel to see what the results of continuing therapy would be ....
04-21-2008, 06:47 PM
Unless one have low DHT, testosterone should be injected.
But for some it is more convenient to use transdermal delivery.
If you are responding normally, you will end up around 10grams.
Some people, specially with thyroid problems, have a difficulty accepting transdermal delivery.
04-22-2008, 08:12 AM
Thanks Jan .... I stopped the Nolvadex 1 week after starting the Androgel ....
I have been reading on a yahoo support group/forum for androgel that there is a week to two week stage where you are almost in a eurphoric state .... Sexually emotionally energy wise ....
I went through this stage and now am in what is called a crash .... I guess it is when your own body's T stops or is starting to stop and the androgel will be the only source of T .... Many on that site say that it is a normal occurence .... And that after about the third week the androgel becomes more stable in your system ....
My question to any and all is this ....
Would using Nolvadex 20MG on M-W-F help or hinder my progress .... does any one have any info on this ?
Some on that site said that they upped their dosage once they hit this point and adjusted the does every two weeks depending on their symptoms, if they returned ....
The first week and half two weeks were AWESOME on this stuff .... I felt 100% normal .... Sexual energy mood and all that were GONE .... Anxiety Gone .... I mean I was 100% cured .... Some say that it is the fact that you have your T and the androgel in your system ....
Has anyone else experienced this ?
04-22-2008, 12:56 PM
is taking (at least when starting).
He is the only one who follows Cegenetic's protocol and posts around here..
There are two schools of thought, (A4M and Cegenetics) on this Anti-Aging/TRT experiment.
Without too much being said, the way I see it, A4M assumes that all TRT is treated as if we all were primary to start with.
Cegenetics, with this large doses of HCG, gives a chance to testis to produce as much as they could.
04-24-2008, 08:51 AM
Okay now that we are getting better with the HRT ....
How do we fix the whole bedroom situation ....
I can't be the only one that is nervous and scare of going back into the bedroom and making love ....
IT's been over a month and a half since me and the other half have done the actual deed ....
Last night I played with my flesh light and the other half watched .... And kinda helped a little bit .... Later on, about two hours or so i was hard again and playing in the general area and was getting hot and bothered again .... My partner didn't want to so a little later I was able to get it up and off again while being watched ....
Now this morning I'm told let's do it this evening .... I am nervous now ....
HAs this happened to anyone else and how do you overcome it ?
04-16-2010, 02:18 PM
Received a SOLID kick to the jewels sparring when I was about 17. Shortly after that I was told i had varicocele. Left, of course. All I was told is that I would probably have trouble have a daughter. It's true... i have all boys!
There were no real problems until starting around 2002-2003. There was gradual weight gain, constant fatigue, sleep issues. Finally in 2006 it got so bad I finally saw an endocrinologist that confirmed low thyroid/low pituitary function. MRI showed primary empty sella. I thought the synthroid would make me normal again. Nope. Continued. Had 2nd and 3rd opinions on endo. Saw neurosurgeon and neurologist that had no real answers.
Finally an internist found I was positive for lyme and a couple of co-infections. I've been on the abx for that since 7/09. While the lyme is probably doing a number, what you have above could certainly be contributing factor. If surgery would correct at least some of it, I would have a chance of being myself again.
- Before synthroid, TSH was running 4+, now it's around 0.6 but I don't feel any better (as I should)
- T was 180-200 and had to go back on injections, around 600 for now
- still gaining weight slowly despite the volume of exercise (normal is 200, I'm 235)
- prolactin had crept up to 30+ so i got put on dostinex (dosage recently doubled)
- fatigue is still relentless (again, lyme probably a major factor)
- have to take BP med (thyroid related most likely)
I've been trying to find the root cause of the crap I've been dealing with and the above has major potential. So any kind of source or input would be greatly appreciated!
04-18-2010, 04:19 AM
I have bilateral varicoceles and was tested for lyme and other infections which came back negative. But the varicoceles I feel have lowered my T. I'm 21 and my total T is at 400 (tested several times). Just thinking ahead several years I don't think my T will increase based on how I feel now (depressed and unmotivated to do anything) and yet all doctors tell me this is normal levels. I've had terrible joint pain in my knees and wrists that is also unexplainable. I want to get the varicoceles repaired if nothing else for the dull pain it causes. I feel what your going through even though my situation may not be as bad. My advice is to seriously talk to your doctor about all your options. Most docs will send you away until you have something that is very obvious regardless of what your symptoms may be.
04-18-2010, 09:46 AM
When people talk about one of their testicles being smaller than the other due to a varicose, or atrophied, how much smaller are we talking?
Also, is there a way for this to just go away with time? Or once you have it, it is forever until surgery?
04-19-2010, 02:54 PM
04-19-2010, 02:56 PM
04-21-2010, 05:55 AM
As long as I can remember my left teste was noticeably smaller than the right, never thought much of it until I had a fleeting case of ED with my girlfriend. She was great about it, but it got me researching causes. i thought it was everything from my melatonin use to stress to too much working out. I finally landed on a varicocele.
The ED was much more apparent after I started worrying, so I'd say some of the horror stores on this board from varicocele sufferers are very magnified due to stress and anxiety! I never thought I had a problem until I diagnosed it, then it became a huge problem that I'm going to have surgically fixed before I'll be able to forget about it. I'm just now getting over the insomnia from the worry.
Anyway, my grade 2 left side varicocele includes a smaller left nut. Volume is 15-18 ml vs 20-22 ml on the right. The range is because I have no way how accurate my ellipsoid measurement was.
Remember this, stress, anxiety, and lack of sleep will destroy libido and T levels, as much or more as your varicocele. Try not to worry about it, get it fixed, and focus on how you felt before you 'knew' you had a varicocele.
The last statement isn't true for all, but I think is for me and is important to keep in perspective! If you weren't broke before why are you now that you know about the varicocele.
07-08-2010, 06:25 PM
I am a 21 year old male you has been diagnoses with a varicocele 2 years ago. Just recently, I have had problems achieving an erection and have had a lowered libido. My testosterone and free testosterone are on the low end of "normal", but I feel as if this is my problem.
I wake up each morning with a tight scrotal sack, which loosens and drops to normal position throughout the day. Does any one have this symptom as well? I also do not wake up with morning erections.
My sex drive 2 years ago was completely normal, and I could have sex multiple times a day if desired. But over the past couple months things are much different.
07-09-2010, 04:29 AM
Hey guys.. thought I would chime in here..
I too have a vericocele, on the left side.. although ive never done an ultrasound my urologist told me it was large.. In general it doesnt bother me much, although its a little anooying when I get the 'back of worms' sensation.
I always had a really high sex drive.. and wanted to have sex with my girlfriend numerous times a day.
Then around a year ago I started having bad anxiety problems.. sleeping problems.. panic attacks.. shortly after that started i started having erection problems and "prostatitis".. Since then i havent been quite the same, sexually, mentally, emotionally..
A lot of my anxiety has gone away thankfully.. but im still having sexual problems. No libido, sometimes my erections work well, other-times not. My ejaculations are very weak. I used to shoot out with powerful ejaculations, since this prostate things started, it just oozes out.. pretty unsatisfying.
Ive had this vericocele for years.. probably started in my teens.. potentially from some hard hits to the nuts (still remember them ). When the uro first told me i had a vericocele was when I was 18, we checked my sperm count and it was normal. This year when i started having problems we checked it again and it was pretty low at 15 mil.. but checked it again a month later and it was 45 mil.. almost normal. Havent had it tested since.
I dunno what role the vericocele has played or not.. but I feel my adrenals have become wacked out, i think my thyroid levels are also a little wacky, potentially hypothryoid. Also my SHBG level is very high at the moment around 90!! Havent seen anyone else on the board with that high of an SHBG.. But my total T level tested a few months ago was good at 745. So my total T seems good, but its all being bound up by SHBG and Albumin.. So I believe im suffering from symptoms of LOW T.. = no libido, erection issues etc.
It is interesting to see those studies about adrenal function.. It could certainly explain what happened / is happening to me..
however.. im curious.. so it says that blood could be back flowing into the adrenals having an effect on them.. that makes sense.. BUT, if you block up that vein, then isnt is possible that could also have a negative effect on the adrenals? maybe less blood flow there? I doubt thats been studied.
Also, I had the vericocele for years without a problem.. and my sex drive was very good as were my erections. Why would there be a sudden change? It is plausible to me, but there are many reasons for low T/sex drive in young men, we live in a messed up world full of chemicals and stress.. But I would like to investigate this further..
I would just get the surgery done but in general im not a fan of getting this cut out/messed with.. especially if it may not even work..
09-22-2011, 06:33 AM
Varicocele Sufferer (Help!)
I've recently self-diagnosed myself with 3rd Grade "Varicocele" through research via the internet. I'm only 16 years of age yet I've had an enlarged and unusual left testicle for as long as I can remember. I got used to it and have only recently begun to question whether Varicocele effects hormone production.
You see, the left side of my body is considerably more muscular and "developed" than my left side. I used to put this down to being right-handed but now am beginning to believe that my Varicocele problem might be the issue. For example,
- My right arm, leg and shoulder are all larger than their counterparts.
- Hair is starting to grow on the right side of my chin and under my right arm... but not my left side.
I'm probably over-reacting but my disproportionate arms and hands in particular seem to get noticed a lot and it is affecting my self-consciousness.
What I'm trying to say is, "Is Varicocele effecting my testosterone production and can that be linked to my growth and development?"
I hope you reply and I hope that what I've said doesn't sound too farfetched or "over reacting'ish".
09-22-2011, 08:44 AM
In my clinical.experience it.may cause low testosterone. One.needs.to.get proper evaluation.and testing to.confirm results. As to.the uneven growth patterns i.have not seen.it. .Hormones levels are.felt.through.out the body not disproportionate. I would seek a specialist.in bone development who is.more.qualified to.answer that.
I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
09-22-2011, 03:49 PM
My Dr noticed my varicocele after I started TRT, and said the test could've caused it. True/false?
kinda like the whole chicken/egg thing, I'm trying to figure out which came first for me to see why I had low T, but I guess it's too late to tell now since I'm on TRT.
Getting an ultrasound in October. Seems like I have a lot of reading to do here.
My labs support the findings at the start of this thread.
Lower DHT, high progesterone, adrenal issues etc
09-22-2011, 10:35 PM
Its Russian roulette ..
I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
01-22-2013, 09:02 AM
I have very large varioceles, and After seeing 2 urologists and lots of money and blood tests. I found out my hormones are out of whack, some blood tests show high prolactin, others show very low free testosterone, and the free T is around 450. I'm a 25 year old male and my sex drive has completely died as of about a year ago. Now i researched and found a specialist that specializes in varioceles, hopefullly he can treat me and maybe give me the go ahead to get an embolization.
This thread has given me hope that an embolization will fix my problems. My question is, why do so many urologists ignore varioceles as a possible cause of hormonal problems? I was always told by urologists that i shouldn't worry about them until i have problems conceiving.
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