Topical ZMA (magnesium in particular) to raise DHEA naturaly
- 10-11-2007, 05:59 PM
Topical ZMA (magnesium in particular) to raise DHEA naturaly
I'm currently taking Pregnenolone @ 25mg 3x ed, and am looking for other ways to improve my natural DHEA levels without supplementing with DHEA or anything supressive.
Do topical ZMA products exist and / or would topical magnesium also benefit me in this case? Would there be anything else I could supplement with to raise DHEA levels naturally or does this about cover it? I am thinking of purchasing Penetrate and adding ZMA + 7-Keto DHEA for other benefits. Would adding Pregnenolone to my topical solution also benefit?
I'm also attacking possible adrenal fatigue that could likely be causing this, but as far as I know my DHEA levels have always been low. I have no prior bloodwork to base this upon, besides what I have done recently. From what I've been told, I also need to increase my saturated fats + cholesterol , particularly beef fat.
btw, my DHEA-S is currently at a low 196.
- 10-11-2007, 06:02 PM
Oh, and here is my latest bloodwork. Not as thorough as I had wished for. Will be going back to request new tests.
Test: (1) CBC With Differential/Platelet
WBC 6.3 x10E3/uL 4.0-10.5
RBC 5.01 x10E6/uL 4.10-5.60
Hemoglobin 15.2 g/dL 12.5-17.0
Hematocrit 45.7% 36.0-50.0
MCV 91 fL 80-98
MCH 30.3 pg 27.0-34.0
MCHC 33.2 g/dL 32.0-36.0
RDW [H] 15.1% 11.7-15.0
Platelets 260 x10E3/uL 140-415
Neutrophils 55% 40-74
Lymphs 34% 14-46
Monocytes 7% 4-13
Eos 4% 0-7
Basos 0% 0-3
Neutrophils (absolute) 3.5 x10E3/uL 1.8-7.8
Lymphs (absolute) 2.1 x10E3/uL 0.7-4.5
Monocytes (absolute) 0.4 x10E3/uL 0.1-1.0
Eos (absolute) 0.3 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.4
Baso (absolute) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.2
Tests: (2) Comp. Metabolic Panel
Glucose, Serum 84 mg/dL 65-99
BUN 20 mg/dL 5-26
Creatinine, Serum 1.0 mg/dL 0.5-1.5
Bun/Creatinine Ratio 20 8-27
Sodium, Serum 141 mmol/L 135-148
Potassium, Serum 4.9 mmol/L 3.5-5.5
Chloride, Serum 104 mmol/L 96-109
Carbon Dioxide, Total 29 mmol/L 20-32
Calcium, Serum 9.2 mg/dL 8.5-10.6
Protein, Total, Serum 6.9 g/dL 6.0-8.5
Albumin, Serum 4.4 g/dL 3.5-5.5
! Globulin, Total 2.5 g/dL 1.5-4.5
A/G Ratio 1.8 1.1-2.5
Bilirubin, Total 0.3 mg/dL 0.1-1.2
Alkaline Phospatase, S 82 IU/L 25-150
AST (SGOT) 26 IU/L 0-40
ALT (SGPT) 28 IU/L 0-55
Tests: (3) Lipid Panel
Cholesterol, Total 132 mg/dL 100-199
Tryglycerides 42 mg/dL 0-149
HDL Cholesterol 59 mg/dL 40-59
! VLDL Cholesterol 8 mg/dL 5-40
LDL Cholesterol 65 mg/dL 0-99
Test: (4) Testosterone, Free and Total
! Testosterone, Serum 381 ng/dL 241-827
Free Testosterone (Direct) 10.5 pg/mL 9.3-26.5
Test: (5) Dehydroepiandrosterone Sulfate
DHEA-Sulfate [L] 196 ug/dL 280-640
Test: (6) Vitamin B12 and Folate
Vitamin B12 [H] 1359 pg/mL 211-911
Folate (Folic Acid), Serum 20.1 ng/mL >5.4
Test: (7) TSH
TSH 2.582 uIU/mL 0.350-5.500
Test: (8) Thyroxine (T4)
Thyroxine (T4) [L] 4.4 ug/dL 4.5-12.0[/QUOTE]
- 10-11-2007, 07:55 PM
Cholesterol is low. Cholesterol is what DHEA is made from. It's the raw material. Ask me how I know. Minimum should be 160, preferably 180-190.
Tell us what you're eating - cholesterol, saturated fat, etc.
Are you on a calorie restricted diet?
10-11-2007, 08:10 PM
I've been cutting / recomping for a while now, but even while I'm on a calorie surplus, I've been only eating turkey and chicken, cheese, milk, yogurt, lots of carbs and fish oil, nuts, eggs whites etc.
I've been on this type of diet for ages now, guess it's time to change it. I occasionally enjoy a nice big steak, I should definately be eating more beef, red meats and more eggs.
10-11-2007, 08:16 PM
Dang wasnt this blood work taken after pct of a SD cycle? Your HDL is very good considering the circumstances...
10-11-2007, 08:22 PM
10-11-2007, 08:41 PM
10-11-2007, 08:43 PM
10-11-2007, 08:47 PM
10-11-2007, 10:44 PM
Travis, to tell you the truth, I was only taking either cycle support or life support to help lipid values. For most of the time I was taking Life Support from AI (in caps) since I couldn't stand the taste of AI's CS.
I think my lipid values were fairly good (my ratios, outside of total cholesterol) because I have basically been starving my body of cholesterol in general (not a good thing), especially bad cholesterol. Most fats I've been eating are from various nuts, mostly almonds + peanuts, for as long as I can remember. Probably not a good thing...will have to fix that asap but also looking for other good methods to help increase DHEA.
I don't even know if transdermal ZMA / magnesium is even possible, I need to research more, but it would be the best way to absorb magnesium I would think, outside of injecting it.
10-12-2007, 03:13 AM
I know you can buy magnesium cream... I dunno if it would work as expected.
10-12-2007, 08:13 AM
some people love and swear by magnesium chloride cream/gels. Also, epsom salt (mag sulfate) baths is an option. I think zinc absorbs fairly well, so probably no need for transdermal on that one.
10-12-2007, 09:22 AM
That "bad" LDL cholesterol is what makes the hormones. Mainstream medicine gives us a lot of oversimplifications. IMHO, high HDL is good (for the heart) and total of 180 or so is good for everything else.
My diet used to be like yours, except more vegetables. Now I'm still eating the vegetables, but adding eggs, beef, bacon. I'm eating all the fat on the meat and also eating some coconut oil (Nutriva). I'm basically adding the saturated fat and cholesterol that my body hasn't been getting. Guess what? I feel better. Not all the way better, but better. Also my body fat has not increased.
I also was taking a digestive supplement which contained Ox Bile. Per HAN on this board, I learned that bile is what absorbs fats and cholesterol from your food. However bile is made from cholesterol so people with low cholesterol have less bile and can thus absorb less cholesterol. This is a vicious cycle. Ox Bile supplements help you to absorb the cholesterol and fats and get your lipids and bile back to normal.
10-12-2007, 10:19 AM
10-12-2007, 10:53 AM
Thanks for all the great info.
My multi-v has ox-bile in it (taking Universal Animal Pak) but I guess it's not doing too much for me now with such a low-cholesterol diet.
Since I've gone on a calorie surplus again, I bought virgin coconut oil to use as spread on whole wheat toast. I guess I should be using a lot of this now. Haven't actually started eating it yet, but will now. Also going to start eating more beef and bacon again. I never really read into it before, but now it makes sense why they call the 'Anabolic Diet' as such.
Also I read that a certain oil in almonds will cause magnesium to be poorly absorbed. I eat almonds everyday and love my almond butter, I guess I should be careful with the amount I eat or start using topical magnesium and/or epsom salts as well.
10-12-2007, 11:22 AM
Epsom salt baths do work pretty well. Try them particularly after a heavy lifting workout..you'll be amazed at how much better you sleep and recover.
10-12-2007, 12:56 PM
Niacin (not no-flush) can raise HDL, and lowers LDL. You need to be monitored by a doc if you take that. I think there can be liver reactions, but its safe for most. Even though my cholesterol was 130, I'm taking Niacin. I figure I'll offset the LDL lowering effect by eating a ton of cholesterol Hopefully I'll end up with more HDL and LDL.
I was taking Solgar Digestive Aid which had Oxbile, Papain, Pancreatin as I recall. I just finished the bottle and I'm going to see how I do without taking it now. I've noticed my digestion seems to be better. My stool is solid and used to be more loose.
Blood tests next week and I'll post the results in my thread.
10-12-2007, 02:01 PM
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