LEF DIM I3C, "bad" 16 alpha-hydroxyestrone

  1. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2416
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    61.33%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    LEF DIM I3C, "bad" 16 alpha-hydroxyestrone


    Current, November 07, LEF magazine is not on the web as I am writting this.
    Nice discussion on 2/16 hydroxyestrones


    There is new supplement that I learned about.
    Breast Health Formula
    60 vegetarian capsules
    Item Catalog Number: 999
    Breast Health Formula, 60 Vegetarian Capsules

    They specifically mention there the:
    the "good" 2-hydroxyestrone and the "bad" 16 alpha-hydroxyestrone.

    My problem,
    untill now I was using
    Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Cat's Claw
    60 vegetarian capsules
    Item Catalog Number: 968
    Le Magazine November 1999

    Both products have identical DIM content
    and similar Cruciferous Vegetable Blend.

    But the new product is probaly more focussed.

    I just bough fresh supply of DualAction
    so I am going to continue taking it, but I have to get the new product.

    Question/problem;
    currenty I am taking 4 DualAction and 1000iu vit D3

    New plan (until DualAction and D3 supplies run out, approx 3 months)
    2 pills DualAction
    2 pills Breast Health Formula
    1-1000iu D3

    latter change to
    3 or four pills Breast Health Formula

    Comments???
    -------------------------
    My Estroessence results are expected any day,
    should have more solid basis for even more changes.
    ============================== =============================
    Breast Health Formula

    Supplement Facts
    Serving Size 2 vegetarian capsules

    Servings Per Container 30

    Amount Per Serving
    Vitamin D (as cholecalciferol)
    1000 IU

    Calcium (as Calcium D-Glucarate)
    16.5 mg

    Iodine (as potassium iodide)
    2 mg

    Phytoestrogens (isoflavones) and Group-B Saponins [from 111.5 mg SoySelect® soybean (Glycine max) 70:1 extract]
    34.5 mg

    Proprietary Cruciferous Vegetable Blend
    550 mg

    Broccoli (Brassica oleracea l.) GMO-free Extract [std. to 4% glucosinolates]

    Watercress (Nasturtium officinale) 4:1 extract (leaf)

    Sawasabi™ Wasabi (Wasabia japonica) powder (rhizome) [std. to 12,000 ppm Total Isothiocyanate]

    Calcium D-Glucarate
    137.5 mg

    Indole-3-Carbinol
    100 mg

    Proprietary Enterolactone Precursors Blend

    25 mg

    HMRlignan™ Norway spruce (Picea abies) lignan extract (knot wood) [std. to 90% Hydroxymatairesinol potassium acetate complex]

    Secoisolariciresinol diglucoside (SDG) [from ActiFlax™ flax lignan (Linum Usitatissimum L.) extract (seed)]

    DIM (3, 3-Bis (indolyl)methane)
    14 mg


    ============================== ============================== =
    Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Cat's Claw

    Supplement Facts
    Serving Size 1 capsule

    Servings Per Container 60

    Amount Per Serving
    Broccoli (Brassica oleracea l.) Super Concentrate Extract
    400 mg

    (plants and sprouts) [std. to 4% glucosinolates (16 mg)]


    Watercress (Nasturtium officinale) 4:1 Extract (leaf)
    100 mg

    Indole-3-Carbinol (I3C)
    80 mg

    Rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis) Extract (leaves)
    50 mg

    [std. to 20% diterpenic compounds (10 mg), providing


    carnosic acid/carnosol]


    Cat's Claw (Uncaria tomentosa) Extract (bark)
    50 mg

    [std. to 8% carboxy alkyl esters (4 mg)]


    DIM (Di-indolyl-methane)
    14 mg
    ============================== ============================== ====

  2. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1161
    Level
    32
    Lv. Percent
    83.78%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Better off just using DIM and iodoral, calcium d glucurate cheaper and you know it clinically works ...and IC3 if you have thyroid and adrenal issues stomach acids can not break it down any way to dim so its wasted.

    I use
    1000 BID calcium d glucruate by biotics research
    50 mgs iodoral
    400-600 mgs DIM bioresponse
    400 mgs SAM-E BID drs best
    2 tsp fish oils
    covers all my basis

    My main problem is undermethyatation and build up of 4 and 16 hydroxy estrones and not being able to methyate them..
  3. Elite Member
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    513538
    Level
    59
    Lv. Percent
    87.34%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Methyl B12 shots would probably smooth that out. They're amazing but now next to impossible to get.
    •   
       

  4. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1161
    Level
    32
    Lv. Percent
    83.78%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Methyl B12 shots would probably smooth that out. They're amazing but now next to impossible to get.
    Not sublingual ?
  5. New Member
    methodice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    417
    Rep Power
    346
    Level
    16
    Lv. Percent
    54.32%

    Hardasnails, how did you find this out about yourself?

    "My main problem is undermethyatation and build up of 4 and 16 hydroxy estrones and not being able to methyate them.."
  6. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1161
    Level
    32
    Lv. Percent
    83.78%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by methodice View Post
    Hardasnails, how did you find this out about yourself?

    "My main problem is undermethyatation and build up of 4 and 16 hydroxy estrones and not being able to methyate them.."
    It is roughly estimated that 60% of people are either undermethyated or slow converters. First it showed up in a urine test that drs could not freaken read and after 6 months of research I figured out that "how can I have a folic acid deficiency when i have an over load of folic acid in my blood" I was not coverting it to proper form. Majority of bodybuilders are undermethyated and would respond good to 400 mgs sam-e BID with 500 mg BID TMG. TMG will only work if you are not zinc deficient other wise your body does not reciruclate properly and it gets diverted to other pathways. I knew I was undermethylated because of my low homocysteine levels but trying to convinece drs was like a vigin trying to get laid in nun's house. So i finally had the estroessence test done and it just further confirmed it that I was not methyated the estrogen and also 16/2 ratio was altered because of lack of fish oils (long story),

    Reason I got ito this mess in the first place was excessive flax seed oil from YEARS of consumption reducing arachondinc acid and then taking more fish oils on top of it with out dr check to see what was going on. I self induced insulin resistance through dietary imbalnces (ca/mg, zn,). The excessive flax seed oil over time caused a zinc defiecny due to the fact that I was low on arachondonic acid which is needed to absorb zinc in the digestion track and transport it to the cells was low couple that with loe melatioin and serotnin imbalnces fueling undermetylation even more..
  7. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2416
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    61.33%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by methodice View Post
    Hardasnails, how did you find this out about yourself?

    "My main problem is undermethyatation and build up of 4 and 16 hydroxy estrones and not being able to methyate them.."
    My post #44

    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    contains (among other tests)

    EstroEssence
    and
    (GDX - Metabolic Analysis Profile) including (GDX - Cellular Energy Profile)

    (I also included the ICD-9 codes that hopefully will help getting them pay by insurance.)

    Read the sample reports for this tests, they include sample interpretations, suggestions for corrective actions and suggestions for further testing.
    ============================== ===
    I am waiting for the reports on this three tests, will post the results here.
    ============================== ===

    Genova also have a test
    ONE Optimal Nutrition Evaluation
    GDX ONE - Optimal Nutrition Evaluation
    Sample report
    http://www.gdx.net/home/images/reportpdf/ONE.pdf

    I found about this test after my above three tests were already ordered.
    This test (ONE) look really promissing, any comments?
  8. Elite Member
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    513538
    Level
    59
    Lv. Percent
    87.34%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Not sublingual ?

    I don't have blood work to confirm so this is iffy but..

    After having used both for the last year or so, I have to say I hardly feel the effects of sublinguals at all compared to injectible. I've taken upwards of 10 mg per day of sublinguals just to get a little energy going but one mL of mB-12 pinned has me rearing to go within an hour.

    Also, the sub form isn't nearly as effective as pinned for allergies.

    I've read that sub MB-12 is 3x better absorbed than cyanocobalamin..but 3x better than 0 is still 0.

    Might be worth a try if you can get some from a naturopath.
  9. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1161
    Level
    32
    Lv. Percent
    83.78%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    I don't have blood work to confirm so this is iffy but..

    After having used both for the last year or so, I have to say I hardly feel the effects of sublinguals at all compared to injectible. I've taken upwards of 10 mg per day of sublinguals just to get a little energy going but one mL of mB-12 pinned has me rearing to go within an hour.

    Also, the sub form isn't nearly as effective as pinned for allergies.

    I've read that sub MB-12 is 3x better absorbed than cyanocobalamin..but 3x better than 0 is still 0.

    Might be worth a try if you can get some from a naturopath.
    I had access to from my dr...
  10. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2416
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    61.33%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    I had access to from my dr...
    HAN
    on my last visit my doctor said that he have all kind of intravenous substances that I may consider in the future.
    That is after the results from
    (GDX - Metabolic Analysis Profile) including (GDX - Cellular Energy Profile)
    tests are known.
    That is during 1/2 to 1 hr in the office session when the intravenous dripping is taking place.
    At first he suggested I may try vitamin C but he said he have other substances.

    Any idea what he was talking about?
    Is this any good?
  11. Elite Member
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    513538
    Level
    59
    Lv. Percent
    87.34%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    intra V vitamin C sounds pretty cool. Charles Poliquin has written about it quite a bit and there's quite a few info sources on the web.
  12. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1161
    Level
    32
    Lv. Percent
    83.78%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    HAN
    on my last visit my doctor said that he have all kind of intravenous substances that I may consider in the future.
    That is after the results from
    (GDX - Metabolic Analysis Profile) including (GDX - Cellular Energy Profile)
    tests are known.
    That is during 1/2 to 1 hr in the office session when the intravenous dripping is taking place.
    At first he suggested I may try vitamin C but he said he have other substances.

    Any idea what he was talking about?
    Is this any good?
    Try myers cocktail with gluthione push 2-3 grams to start out with with 1 cc methycobalmin 1 cc folonic acid.
  13. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2416
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    61.33%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Try myers cocktail with gluthione push 2-3 grams to start out with with 1 cc methycobalmin 1 cc folonic acid.
    Thank you.
    Do you have any links to the description of what that does.
  14. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1161
    Level
    32
    Lv. Percent
    83.78%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Thank you.
    Do you have any links to the description of what that does.
    It basically I multi vitamin /mineral IV which helps detoxify heavy metals and rejuvenates cellular damage..It used for autism and minor detoxifcation..Gluthione is strongest antioxident in body and gets depleted as we age due to enviormant and cellular damages
  15. Senior Member
    Scottyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,001
    Rep Power
    643
    Level
    24
    Lv. Percent
    60.3%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    what about IV mag?
  16. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2416
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    61.33%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottyo View Post
    what about IV mag?
    What is IV mag?
  17. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1161
    Level
    32
    Lv. Percent
    83.78%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    What is IV mag?
    Magneisum IV its in the myers cocktail. IV mg is good stuff too but verfiy VIa WBC mineral testing ..
  18. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2416
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    61.33%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Magneisum IV its in the myers cocktail. IV mg is good stuff too but verfiy VIa WBC mineral testing ..
    Intravenous Nutrient Therapy: the "Myers’ Cocktail"

    Myer's Cocktail



    Intravenous Nutrient Therapy: the "Myers’ Cocktail"

    By Alan R. Gaby, M.D.

    Abstract

    Building on the work of the late John Myers, MD, the author has used an intravenous vitamin-and-mineral formula for the treatment of a wide range of clinical conditions. The modified “Myers’ cocktail,” which consists of magnesium, calcium, B vitamins, and vitamin C, has been found to be effective against acute asthma attacks, migraines, fatigue (including chronic fatigue syndrome), fibromyalgia, acute muscle spasm, upper respiratory tract infections, chronic sinusitis, seasonal allergic rhinitis, cardiovascular disease, and other disorders. This paper presents a rationale for reviews the relevant published clinical research, describes the author’s clinical experiences, and discusses potential side effects and precautions. (Alternative Medical Review 2002;7(5):389-403)


    Index of topics;


    Introduction
    Theoretical Basis for IV Nutrient Therapy
    The Modified Myers’ Cocktail
    Table 1. Nutrients in Myers’ Cocktail
    Asthma
    Migraine
    Fatigue
    Fibromyalgia
    Depression
    Cardiovascular Disease
    Upper Respiratory Tract Infections
    Seasonal Allergic Rhinitis
    Narcotic Withdrawal
    Chronic Urticaria
    Athletic Performance
    Hyperthyroidism
    Other Conditions
    Choice of Ingredients and Administration
    Side Effects and Precautions
    Cost Considerations

    Conclusion
    References
    Send for Article
    Copyright
  19. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1161
    Level
    32
    Lv. Percent
    83.78%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Intravenous Nutrient Therapy: the "Myers’ Cocktail"

    Myer's Cocktail



    Intravenous Nutrient Therapy: the "Myers’ Cocktail"

    By Alan R. Gaby, M.D.

    Abstract

    Building on the work of the late John Myers, MD, the author has used an intravenous vitamin-and-mineral formula for the treatment of a wide range of clinical conditions. The modified “Myers’ cocktail,” which consists of magnesium, calcium, B vitamins, and vitamin C, has been found to be effective against acute asthma attacks, migraines, fatigue (including chronic fatigue syndrome), fibromyalgia, acute muscle spasm, upper respiratory tract infections, chronic sinusitis, seasonal allergic rhinitis, cardiovascular disease, and other disorders. This paper presents a rationale for reviews the relevant published clinical research, describes the author’s clinical experiences, and discusses potential side effects and precautions. (Alternative Medical Review 2002;7(5):389-403)


    Index of topics;


    Introduction
    Theoretical Basis for IV Nutrient Therapy
    The Modified Myers’ Cocktail
    Table 1. Nutrients in Myers’ Cocktail
    Asthma
    Migraine
    Fatigue
    Fibromyalgia
    Depression
    Cardiovascular Disease
    Upper Respiratory Tract Infections
    Seasonal Allergic Rhinitis
    Narcotic Withdrawal
    Chronic Urticaria
    Athletic Performance
    Hyperthyroidism
    Other Conditions
    Choice of Ingredients and Administration
    Side Effects and Precautions
    Cost Considerations

    Conclusion
    References
    Send for Article
    Copyright
    See i have been around the naturopathic and alternative medicine block alot more then majority of drs..
  20. Elite Member
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    513538
    Level
    59
    Lv. Percent
    87.34%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Children who take FlintStones vitamins are already more experienced than most Drs in alternative treatments
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Forskolin/DIM/I3C Question
    By symbianblack in forum Supplements
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-15-2014, 10:18 PM
  2. very high estrogen low test? dim i3c results
    By patrickb123 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-09-2014, 08:31 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-03-2009, 01:52 PM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-11-2007, 02:31 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in