High Total Estrogen - Low Estradiol

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    High Total Estrogen - Low Estradiol


    My estrogen is too high and my estradioil is too low.

    Total estrogen is 188
    Estradiol is 7

    I have been using 250 mg of arimidex eod, talked my doctor and she said it is ok to take 250mg every day.

    Am I at risk of totalling killing my Estradiol?

    I need to get my Estrogen down because while I do not have gyno, at times my chest feels funny and itchy.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks

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    Total Estrogen blood assay is invalid, and that's per Dr. Crisler's opinion.. lol Stop taking the Arimidex.

    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAk View Post
    Total Estrogen blood assay is invalid, and that's per Dr. Crisler's opinion.. lol Stop taking the Arimidex.

    .

    Yes I do remember him saying that but I am way out of range and I am having some slight chest issues. You really think I should stop?
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
    Yes I do remember him saying that but I am way out of range and I am having some slight chest issues. You really think I should stop?
    I don't know doughboy.... Your thread caught my eye and made me laugh... That's because we are identical in this respect. My E2 is 7 ... My total T is 116 (upper max is 115)... I am a patient of Dr. Crisler and although I had major concerns about my total E, he dismissed it as invalid. When you mention this to any Dr. they get this puzzled disbelief look on their faces. On one hand I want to believe in Dr. John as he's a poineer in his field. On the other hand I can't help but wonder if my total T not going up due to my high total Estrogen??? which I don't know if it's truly high or not??? See my delimma?? hahah...

    I think the best way to dermine the truth is via 24hr urine test... But, those cost about $225 and my insurance won't cover it... Arrrrgggg... makes me mad...

    But, yea.. I don't think you should take the Arimidex if you're E2 is seven. If Dr. Crisler is right, you'll be doing some major harm to your health taking the Arimidex..
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAk View Post
    I don't know doughboy.... Your thread caught my eye and made me laugh... That's because we are identical in this respect. My E2 is 7 ... My total T is 116 (upper max is 115)... I am a patient of Dr. Crisler and although I had major concerns about my total E, he dismissed it as invalid. When you mention this to any Dr. they get this puzzled disbelief look on their faces. On one hand I want to believe in Dr. John as he's a poineer in his field. On the other hand I can't help but wonder if my total T not going up due to my high total Estrogen??? which I don't know if it's truly high or not??? See my delimma?? hahah...

    I think the best way to dermine the truth is via 24hr urine test... But, those cost about $225 and my insurance won't cover it... Arrrrgggg... makes me mad...

    But, yea.. I don't think you should take the Arimidex if you're E2 is seven. If Dr. Crisler is right, you'll be doing some major harm to your health taking the Arimidex..

    Thanks for the info.
    Does Dr Crisler still reply to posts here?


    One other problem I am having is that my urine flow is weak.
    I thought that was caused by high estrogen. So confused.
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
    Thanks for the info.
    Does Dr Crisler still reply to posts here?
    Dr. Crisler does not reply to posts here anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAk View Post
    Dr. Crisler does not reply to posts here anymore.

    Is he posting on any forums anywhere?

    Someone also told me that his website (I don't have its specific URL handy anywhere) also had been changed and that the "free pprotocols" formerly listed on his site have been removed (???)

    Thanks for any info.

    TJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAk View Post
    If Dr. Crisler is right, you'll be doing some major harm to your health taking the Arimidex..
    What do you mean by this? Arimidex in and of itself is not harmful...but taking your estrogens too low is. Is that what you meant?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightship3 View Post
    What do you mean by this? Arimidex in and of itself is not harmful...but taking your estrogens too low is. Is that what you meant?
    I think Arimidex can lower your estraiol too much which happened to me and that is not a good thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
    I think Arimidex can lower your estraiol too much which happened to me and that is not a good thing.
    I use Quest

    Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)

    to figure out my E2 status.
    The result of the test is

    Estradiol, Free (Males (Adult): < or = 0.45 pg/mL )
    Estradiol (Males (Adult): < or = 29 pg/mL)

    On my last test I had
    E2=29 that would be acceptable

    but I got

    Estradiol, Free=0.75 that is high

    I increased my LiquiDex from 0.5cc to 0.6cc (E3D schedule)

    next blood test will tell the rest of the story.

    I list the test and adjustments made based on results of the test, in my post #62
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    I look at E2 the same way as I do look at
    T, DHT, T3 and T4
    only the Free part is really important.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    My e2 is also at 75 at least last reading it was. I think I am very senitive to AI as well. I know that my dosage is between .30 and .50 mgs a week. So in case point the DIM did not lower your e2 and just probably changed the pathways it was metabolized. What was your last e2 reading and what is your current protocol. Are you on hcg as well? I have altered 2/16 ratio why i am on DIm right now, but like you said i do not think it affects e2 as people thing.
    HAN
    look at my post #10 on this thread.

    I suggest you do your Arimidex (better LiquiDex) adjustments based on FreeE2.
    SensitiveE2 may not be telling the whole story.

    FreeE2 is the way to go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    HAN
    look at my post #10 on this thread.

    I suggest you do your Arimidex (better LiquiDex) adjustments based on FreeE2.
    SensitiveE2 may not be telling the whole story.

    FreeE2 is the way to go.
    I know we can estimate free T using Total T and SHBG: Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator

    I looked but could not find a similar calculator for free E2. I don't see why it's not possible as it is the same concept. I also wonder whether the same calculator might already figure free E2. The only difference between T and E2 is one carbon, perhaps it binds in the same way?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    HAN
    look at my post #10 on this thread.

    I suggest you do your Arimidex (better LiquiDex) adjustments based on FreeE2.
    SensitiveE2 may not be telling the whole story.

    FreeE2 is the way to go.
    i just talked representative from energetic nutriton about DIM and they told me that it will actually bind to shbg and reduce shbg that would be produced by the liver. So hence low 2/16ratio would caused increased shbg which is a BIG issue in my case and may be as well as many other cases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    i just talked representative from energetic nutriton about DIM and they told me that it will actually bind to shbg and reduce shbg that would be produced by the liver. So hence low 2/16ratio would caused increased shbg which is a BIG issue in my case and may be as well as many other cases.
    Let me get it straight.

    bad--> 16 alpha-hydroxyestrone
    good--> 2-hydroxyestrone

    we want high 2/16 ratio

    also

    when 2/16 ratio is low ---> it promotes higher SHBG

    so when we use DIM to increase 2/16 that should also reduce SHBG
    ============================== ========

    Usually, when we age SHBG is increasing
    Using DIM increases 2/16 ratio and lowers SHBG
    both are desirable conditions.
    ============================== ========
    But someone with low SHBG should be carefull when using DIM


    Did I got your message?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkLA View Post
    I know we can estimate free T using Total T and SHBG: Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator

    I looked but could not find a similar calculator for free E2. I don't see why it's not possible as it is the same concept. I also wonder whether the same calculator might already figure free E2. The only difference between T and E2 is one carbon, perhaps it binds in the same way?
    It is often said here that SHBG preferentially binds with T over E2. I don't have an opinion on this, but if it is correct, then given equimolar amounts of T and E2, a given quantity of SHBG would bind a greater number of T molecules than it would E2 molecules.

    Looking at it another way, you could say that there is a greater probability that a single molecule of SHBG will bind one or more T molecules than that it will bind one or more E2 molecules.

    Of course this is a simplisticmodel because it ignores a lot of other stuff that needs to be considered. For example, are there conditions that would favor E2 binding over T binding?


    Also, a lot of algorithms that predict free T may not be accurate because older ones assume that SHBG has a single binding site. There is new evidence that SHBG actually has two binding sites. JanZ has a lot to say about this.

    This raises some questions that may be more interesting than useful - Could one of the binding sites bind a T molecule and the other site bind an E2 molecule? Would it affect the affinity of the remaining binding site? Would steric interactions or hydrogen bonding between the bound molecules influence the type of molecule being bound?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkLA View Post
    I know we can estimate free T using Total T and SHBG: Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator

    I looked but could not find a similar calculator for free E2. I don't see why it's not possible as it is the same concept. I also wonder whether the same calculator might already figure free E2. The only difference between T and E2 is one carbon, perhaps it binds in the same way?
    From my observations it looks that the
    Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator,
    the Bioavailable part,
    is totally out and erratic when comparing to blood tests from Quest. I did little study on BioT on separate thread, that I can't locate now.

    The FreeT part is rather accurate (stable may be better word) and it follows
    dr Shippen's chart
    both are over estimating available FreeT from Quest.


    I compared my lattest blood test from Quest to chart and calculator on my post #62
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    Blood test FreeT=248.5
    chart FreeT=325
    calculator FreeT=343

    343/248.5=1.4

    I feel the best is to do the test at Quest.

    Second best would be to use chart or calculator but
    keep in mind that actuall FreeT may be over-estimated by 40%.

    There is no way to tell where is BAT with out actual testing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    This raises some questions that may be more interesting than useful - Could one of the binding sites bind a T molecule and the other site bind an E2 molecule? Would it affect the affinity of the remaining binding site? Would steric interactions or hydrogen bonding between the bound molecules influence the type of molecule being bound?
    Thanks for your reply. It's clear now that the calculator is more of a curiosity than a tool you can rely on for diagnostics.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Second best would be to use chart or calculator but keep in mind that actuall FreeT may be over-estimated by 40%.

    There is no way to tell where is BAT with out actual testing.
    Agreed. 40% is way too high of a variance.

    Thanks,

    Mark
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    Ok I just got lab results back I still can not put the pieces together although my insulin sensitivity may hold the key to lower shbg.

    TT - 924
    E2- 28
    shbg - 42

    Ok from this Obviously 600 mgs of DIM was holding e2 in check, but on the other hand it may have been increasing the shbg. Ok to lower shbg - increase insulin levels, eat more caloires (protien and carbs), gh, avenia stevia, nettles.

    Now since e2 is 28 and shbg 42 this could present a slight estrogen defieincy since alot of it is being binded along with testoserone. Now we got e2 pretty much stabilized with DIM or other possibility would be I have been shooting into my shoulders vs quads because of less fat,

    I will continue shootin in my shoulders - to rule out that variable
    Keep DIm going - 400 mgs vs 600 mgs
    reduce shbg- increasing insulin levels more caloires and carbo hydrates, may be added in stinging nettles 300 mgs x 3 (does any one know of stanaardized version of this)
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Ok I just got lab results back I still can not put the pieces together although my insulin sensitivity may hold the key to lower shbg.

    TT - 924
    E2- 28
    shbg - 42

    Ok from this Obviously 600 mgs of DIM was holding e2 in check, but on the other hand it may have been increasing the shbg. Ok to lower shbg - increase insulin levels, eat more caloires (protien and carbs), gh, avenia stevia, nettles.

    Now since e2 is 28 and shbg 42 this could present a slight estrogen defieincy since alot of it is being binded along with testoserone. Now we got e2 pretty much stabilized with DIM or other possibility would be I have been shooting into my shoulders vs quads because of less fat,

    I will continue shootin in my shoulders - to rule out that variable
    Keep DIm going - 400 mgs vs 600 mgs
    reduce shbg- increasing insulin levels more caloires and carbo hydrates, may be added in stinging nettles 300 mgs x 3 (does any one know of stanaardized version of this)
    TT - 924
    shbg - 42

    Requires TT-1350
    to get
    FreeT~300

    to get TT~1350
    requires

    200mg/week Depo-testosterone

    use e3d schedule

    200/7*3/200=0.43cc=43units on insuline syringe
    I would use 500iu Novarel on the day of the shot.
    If you want to be of totally theoretical, use hcg day before T.

    The above dose is high but may not be enough.
    On my last test the dr Shippen chart lags blood test by 40%
    So do not be surprised if you will need more than 200mg/week of T.
    OTOH, this level of Test may suppress somewhat your SHBG.
    Only test will tell.
    But feel free to use up to about 250mg/week, on divided (E3D) schedule.

    do at least these tests within 6 weeks on new schedule;

    T3 Free
    T4,Free
    Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
    Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)

    consider adding these (unless you have recent results:

    Estrogens, Fractionated, LC/MS/MS (36742X)
    Estrogen, Total, Serum (439X)
    Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)

    well also:

    DHEA sulfate
    Prolactin
    Progesterone, LC/MS/MS
    Pregnenolone
    ============================== ================

    HAN;
    question

    From my last Aug30 blood test I have all those estrogens tested as I advised you (above).

    Next week I am going to get results from Estroessence,
    urine tests from Genova.

    I am sure I will se some puzzle that will ned to be reconciled.

    What would be the right approach to look at these two tests side by side.???
    ============================== ============================== ===========
    Note;
    from some recent posts I see that dr Shippen may not wait the usual 6 weeks from change of schedule to new blood twst.
    I would say that my study, post #22
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
    supports that way.
    Specially if one would use accelerated schedule on first couple days.

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/404im...eek-tcypionate

    I am saying that because your estrodial status is up in the air and needs to be under control ASAP.
    You need good E2 test and FreeE2 (test as above) to figure out where you are.
    Accelerate your T dose (per chart post #22)
    test after 4 weeks.

    Day#1--use 2.5 dose
    Day#2 --use one dose
    Day#3 -- no shots
    Day#4 -- use 1 dose
    continue E3D schedule
  

  
 

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