Androgel application question

rick055

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If you look at the site for Testim, it says only apply to shoulders and upper arms whereas Androgel says that plus abdomen is okay.

I stumbled across this for a compounded gel:

"It is also recommended that the sites of application around the body are rotated so that optimal absorption is maintained. The best application areas include the chest, abdomen or inner thigh."

The same article also mentions the inner forearm as suitable for application.

So what's the consensus? Are all of those areas suitable for application?

It would sure make it easier to rotate sites; I generally need any two of those sites just to apply 5 ml of gel.
 
RugbyHooligan

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I use upper arms/shoulders.

inner upper arm, abdomen and occasionally forearm

I am using 7.5g a day
 

rick055

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I use upper arms/shoulders.

inner upper arm, abdomen and occasionally forearm

I am using 7.5g a day
Does it "take a lot of skin" to apply the 7.5?

For me, just to get 5g, I need both shoulders and upper arms. Another 2.5 and I'm thinking I have to hit the abdomen.

Are you rotating sites? What does your rotation look like? Can you fit all of the 7.5 on "one side"?
 
RugbyHooligan

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it takes some skin, thats for sure, but luckily I am a large man :)

yes both arms and I use the abs as well. Rotating application sites isn't what I do, especially on the 7.5g per day.
 

rick055

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I wish my arms were big enough to be able to apply the 7.5 to one of them!!
 

hardasnails1973

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I wish my arms were big enough to be able to apply the 7.5 to one of them!!
Slap it on your nuts it might make it grow :blink:
you can split the dosage up 5 grams morning and then 2.5 later for better pulsing
 

TiredOldFart

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Slap it on your nuts it might make it grow :blink:
you can split the dosage up 5 grams morning and then 2.5 later for better pulsing
I do this. (not the nuts part, the splitting the dose part) It seems to help reduce afternoon pain and fatigue to split the does at 75/25 percent.
 

aculpep

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why cant you use it on your chest or stomach? dont understand why they say arms. i use it on my chest and stomach but stopped when i read androgel instructions. just not sure why.
 

rick055

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why cant you use it on your chest or stomach? dont understand why they say arms. i use it on my chest and stomach but stopped when i read androgel instructions. just not sure why.
The first few days I used androgel, I applied it to my chest and noticed I had some palpitations. I don't know if it was related to the chest application or simply that I had started testosterone (and would have gotten palps, anyways).

That said, I read an insert for a compounded product and it says chest is okay.
 

b4554

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Not positive, but I think the goal is to keep it away from bodyfat areas to help reduce aromitization.
 

pmgamer18

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Yes you have it right. Also using testim rub it in well real good. I was putting it on my upper arms and shoulders and down my back as far as I could reach. I did 5 grams on each side. Still it drove my DHT and E2 way up and my Total and Free T was not all that good. Many men are finding after useing Androgel and Testim for 2 yrs there levels started going down the gels did something to the skin and it was not getting into the blood. We have all gone to shots. One thing I noticed after my first shot was the joint and mucle pain I had started going away. The gels did not help with this we feel the testosterone was not getting into the joints and muscles today I am pain free. On the gels I could hardly walk.
Not positive, but I think the goal is to keep it away from bodyfat areas to help reduce aromitization.
 
JanSz

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Yes you have it right. Also using testim rub it in well real good. I was putting it on my upper arms and shoulders and down my back as far as I could reach. I did 5 grams on each side. Still it drove my DHT and E2 way up and my Total and Free T was not all that good. Many men are finding after useing Androgel and Testim for 2 yrs there levels started going down the gels did something to the skin and it was not getting into the blood. We have all gone to shots. One thing I noticed after my first shot was the joint and mucle pain I had started going away. The gels did not help with this we feel the testosterone was not getting into the joints and muscles today I am pain free. On the gels I could hardly walk.
I just got my first DHT reading while on (subq) T shots.
Post #62
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/newreply/1028790/

It is within range, first time ever during my blood tests.
DHT=69 (25-75)ng/dL Quest

While on 10grams Androgel DHT=226ng/dL(30-85) LabCorp
when added Avodart DHT=29
--------------------------------------
My new DHT values (are over phone), I am still missing my FreeDHT value but already have

FreeDHT%=1.90%(0.62-1.10) Quest

so I am already scratching my head (slightly) of what to do if anything.
 

pmgamer18

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My last time I had DHT checked it was 46 same range as yours my DHT on Gels was 3x's above the top of the range. I would not do anything if you feel good and have good wood.
I just got my first DHT reading while on (subq) T shots.
Post #62
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/newreply/1028790/

It is within range, first time ever during my blood tests.
DHT=69 (25-75)ng/dL Quest

While on 10grams Androgel DHT=226ng/dL(30-85) LabCorp
when added Avodart DHT=29
--------------------------------------
My new DHT values (are over phone), I am still missing my FreeDHT value but already have

FreeDHT%=1.90%(0.62-1.10) Quest

so I am already scratching my head (slightly) of what to do if anything.
 
JanSz

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My last time I had DHT checked it was 46 same range as yours my DHT on Gels was 3x's above the top of the range. I would not do anything if you feel good and have good wood.
The numbers I posted were obtained by phone.
I just got the actual copy.
It is little better, freeDHT% got extra zero.
DHT=69(25-75)
freeDHT%=1.09 (0.62-1.10)
FreeDHT=7.52(1.00-6.20) high

I would consider my DHT close to perfect, thanks to subq T shots.

=========================
I have a "problem" with the part I underlined in red, I have a great need to screw and finaly have something to do it with, and wife is severly limiting my advances.
 

rick055

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The numbers I posted were obtained by phone.
I just got the actual copy.
It is little better, freeDHT% got extra zero.
DHT=69(25-75)
freeDHT%=1.09 (0.62-1.10)
FreeDHT=7.52(1.00-6.20) high

I would consider my DHT close to perfect, thanks to subq T shots.

=========================
I have a "problem" with the part I underlined in red, I have a great need to screw and finaly have something to do it with, and wife is severly limiting my advances.
JanSz, First of all I am glad you are feeling well.

Second, what is this free DHT? Is this a similar concept to free test? i.e. DHT that can do it's job?

Hypothetical question: Is free DHT a more important factor in things like male pattern baldness than total DHT? Do we know?
 

eddyfinster

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If you look at the site for Testim, it says only apply to shoulders and upper arms whereas Androgel says that plus abdomen is okay.

I stumbled across this for a compounded gel:

"It is also recommended that the sites of application around the body are rotated so that optimal absorption is maintained. The best application areas include the chest, abdomen or inner thigh."

The same article also mentions the inner forearm as suitable for application.

So what's the consensus? Are all of those areas suitable for application?

It would sure make it easier to rotate sites; I generally need any two of those sites just to apply 5 ml of gel.
I just had a question for you. I started on androgel but I didnt really like it, it took a long time for the application sites to dry, and even after it was dry, if I started to sweat it would get slimy. I also didnt think it worked particulary well. I used the shoulder and abdomen. I finnaly switched to a patch then finnaly a testosterone cypionate injection. Does the androgel work for you?
 

rick055

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I just had a question for you. I started on androgel but I didnt really like it, it took a long time for the application sites to dry, and even after it was dry, if I started to sweat it would get slimy. I also didnt think it worked particulary well. I used the shoulder and abdomen. I finnaly switched to a patch then finnaly a testosterone cypionate injection. Does the androgel work for you?
I have been on Androgel (5 grams/day) for about 2.5 weeks. I don't feel like I have a "kick in the pants", so to speak, but I have noticed some positive changes.

I have morning wood again, I am a little more motivated and my general stamina has increased. I have also noticed that my sleep quality is better.

That is especially interesting considering my total T and Free T - per my most recent labs - is lower than when I started 2.5 weeks ago. That said, my DHT is higher and my E2 is lower, to which I'm attributing the positive changes.

I am switching to a 5% compounded PLO gel mid next week. I am also increasing my dosage to 75 mg/day (up from 50 mg on the a-gel). It is my hope that the better absorbtion and increased dose will increase total/free T.

My DHT is a little over the high end of normal, and, although not grossly elevated, I think I will make the switch to shots if I cannot get it a little closer to the normal range with pregnenolone.

I am also planning on visiting the great Dr. Crisler for his advice, I am saving up to do so.

Remember also that part of this equation is maintaining endogenous production and controlling E, among other things. Do you have any insight there? There's plenty of people more knowledgeable than I, but that's a big part of it as well.

I hope this helps.
 

eddyfinster

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I have been on Androgel (5 grams/day) for about 2.5 weeks. I don't feel like I have a "kick in the pants", so to speak, but I have noticed some positive changes.

I have morning wood again, I am a little more motivated and my general stamina has increased. I have also noticed that my sleep quality is better.

That is especially interesting considering my total T and Free T - per my most recent labs - is lower than when I started 2.5 weeks ago. That said, my DHT is higher and my E2 is lower, to which I'm attributing the positive changes.

I am switching to a 5% compounded PLO gel mid next week. I am also increasing my dosage to 75 mg/day (up from 50 mg on the a-gel). It is my hope that the better absorbtion and increased dose will increase total/free T.

My DHT is a little over the high end of normal, and, although not grossly elevated, I think I will make the switch to shots if I cannot get it a little closer to the normal range with pregnenolone.

I am also planning on visiting the great Dr. Crisler for his advice, I am saving up to do so.

Remember also that part of this equation is maintaining endogenous production and controlling E, among other things. Do you have any insight there? There's plenty of people more knowledgeable than I, but that's a big part of it as well.

I hope this helps.
I was diagnosed with hypogonadism, my free and total test was really low, my doc had hoped the gel would work, but I just wasnt happy with it. I really dont like giving myself shots but after about a month the shots were worth it. I started off with 200 ml biweekly but was steped up to once a week after 2 months. Ive been on that regime for about nine months now and Im real happy. However 2 months ago my e was a little high so I was put on a half milligram of arimedex twice a week which brought my e down to a good range. Also in my last labs my dht and cortisol was low so I was also put on 7 keto dhea and isocort. For the most part Im happy with my energy and work outs, now my only problem is no sex drive what so ever, which makes no sense to me considering my total test is 905 and my free test is a little over 200, go figure. Let me know if youve ever heard about that.
 

eddyfinster

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The numbers I posted were obtained by phone.
I just got the actual copy.
It is little better, freeDHT% got extra zero.
DHT=69(25-75)
freeDHT%=1.09 (0.62-1.10)
FreeDHT=7.52(1.00-6.20) high

I would consider my DHT close to perfect, thanks to subq T shots.

=========================
I have a "problem" with the part I underlined in red, I have a great need to screw and finaly have something to do it with, and wife is severly limiting my advances.
Ive never heard of subq t shots, right now im on 200 ml depo t shots in the ass once a week. My igf-i is 292(117-344) my dhea sulfate is 119(280-640) and my cortisol is 8.5(4-22)My doc put me on isocort for the low cortisol and 7keto for the low dhea. My free and total t is great but I have absolutey no sex drive. Do you think raising the dhea and cortisol will help? how do I find out about the subq t shots?
 

rick055

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Do you think raising the dhea and cortisol will help? how do I find out about the subq t shots?
I don't know anything about cortisol, but I have heard that adding DHEA can impact libido if it is low.

But why are you going to add 7-Keto? I thought most doctors recommend regular DHEA?

Glad you're doing well on the shots.

Are you on any meds that would work against libido? Antidepressants?
 
JanSz

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JanSz, First of all I am glad you are feeling well.

Second, what is this free DHT? Is this a similar concept to free test? i.e. DHT that can do it's job?

Hypothetical question: Is free DHT a more important factor in things like male pattern baldness than total DHT? Do we know?
Since I have found proper tests at Quest Diagnostics, I am in favor of
FreeT (goal ~300 per dr Delgado)
FreeE2 (goal is to be at top range but not over)
FreeDHT (goal is to be at top range but not over)

I have a list of blood tests tha I do on my thread, post #44
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-3.html

I assume that the best I can do is to have all of my hormones at close to the top of their respective ranges but not over it.
 
JanSz

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Ive never heard of subq t shots, right now im on 200 ml depo t shots in the ass once a week. My igf-i is 292(117-344) my dhea sulfate is 119(280-640) and my cortisol is 8.5(4-22)My doc put me on isocort for the low cortisol and 7keto for the low dhea. My free and total t is great but I have absolutey no sex drive. Do you think raising the dhea and cortisol will help? how do I find out about the subq t shots?
Post your complete blood tests, all that you have.
Name, number, units, ranges, laboratory name.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Change your schedule of T shots to E3D.
When adjusting T dose
your goal is FreeT~300 on dr Shippen chart, post #41
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html
or better use proper blood testing, post#44
also see how I approach T dose adjustment, post #62
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Isocort is a last resort, many people do not get good results.
Use Cortef 5mg, use 4 pill/day divided. Up to 30mg/day if you really need.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7keto is good but it will not raise your DHEAs.
Use 2 pills/day
DHEA Complete
100 mg 7-Keto® DHEA & 25 mg DHEA, 60 capsules
Item Catalog Number: 850
Dhea Complete, 60 Capsules
Read description, consider adding recomended there other supplements.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Use 1pill/day
DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) Free Base
100 mg, 60 capsules
Dhea (Dehydroepiandrosterone) Free Base, 100 Mg 60 Capsules
May not be enough.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get script for compounded pregnenolone cream
get cream from womens international
strenght 100mg/gram
dose 2grams/day
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get script for hcg Novarel 10000iu
use 500iu on the day of the T shot
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get Liquidex
Get results of E2 ultrasensitive
or better yet FreeE2
use LiquiDex as need
see my story on Liquidex dose adjustment, post #62
Proper E2 level is frequently a good first step for erectile disfunction help.
Use Cialis 2x/week
There is also LiquiCia, less $$
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Use this needle for T and HCG shots, subQ around navel.
BD Ultrafine U-100 Insulin Syringe 30 Gauge 1/2cc 1/2Inch 100/Box Price: $23.50
BD Ultrafine U-100 Insulin Syringe 30 Gauge 1/2cc 1/2Inch 100/Box
Takes about 4 minutes to draw Depo-T, do not worry, be patient.
Make sure that injection lasts 1 minute, then it will be totally painless.
 

Scottyo

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Post your complete blood tests, all that you have.
Name, number, units, ranges, laboratory name.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Change your schedule of T shots to E3D.
When adjusting T dose
your goal is FreeT~300 on dr Shippen chart, post #41
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html
or better use proper blood testing, post#44
also see how I approach T dose adjustment, post #62
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Isocort is a last resort, many people do not get good results.
Use Cortef 5mg, use 4 pill/day divided. Up to 30mg/day if you really need.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7keto is good but it will not raise your DHEAs.
Use 2 pills/day
DHEA Complete
100 mg 7-Keto® DHEA & 25 mg DHEA, 60 capsules
Item Catalog Number: 850
Dhea Complete, 60 Capsules
Read description, consider adding recomended there other supplements.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Use 1pill/day
DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) Free Base
100 mg, 60 capsules
Dhea (Dehydroepiandrosterone) Free Base, 100 Mg 60 Capsules
May not be enough.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get script for compounded pregnenolone cream
get cream from womens international
strenght 100mg/gram
dose 2grams/day
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get script for hcg Novarel 10000iu
use 500iu on the day of the T shot
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get Liquidex
Get results of E2 ultrasensitive
or better yet FreeE2
use LiquiDex as need
see my story on Liquidex dose adjustment, post #62
Proper E2 level is frequently a good first step for erectile disfunction help.
Use Cialis 2x/week
There is also LiquiCia, less $$
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Use this needle for T and HCG shots, subQ around navel.
BD Ultrafine U-100 Insulin Syringe 30 Gauge 1/2cc 1/2Inch 100/Box Price: $23.50
BD Ultrafine U-100 Insulin Syringe 30 Gauge 1/2cc 1/2Inch 100/Box
Takes about 4 minutes to draw Depo-T, do not worry, be patient.
Make sure that injection lasts 1 minute, then it will be totally painless.


Good recommendations...although according to dr. Crisler, Women's international is not the best. Cheapest, yes but he thinks the quality is pretty subpar. I am now using college pharmacy's cream and the transdermal is much better...not sure how each is effecting my body as i added in test gel again as well, but definetly feeling much better.
 
JanSz

JanSz

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Good recommendations...although according to dr. Crisler, Women's international is not the best. Cheapest, yes but he thinks the quality is pretty subpar. I am now using college pharmacy's cream and the transdermal is much better...not sure how each is effecting my body as i added in test gel again as well, but definetly feeling much better.
Specifically about compounded pregnenolone cream,
do you (or anybody else) have any experience that is supported by blood testing?

I am interested only in situation as follows:
#1 blood test show pregnenolone level XXX
#2 applied so many grams of (describe your cream)
#3 blood test show pregnenolone level YYY

I was trying to get such information on my own, unfortunately in my Apr13/07 Quest ignored my request for preg testing.

All the while I was on 1gram of of 100mg/gram precription pregnenolone cream from womens international.

On Aug30/07
Pregnenolone=11(10-200)ng/dL
I increased cream to 2 grams will do my next test in few months, did not decided yet when.
I have a series of tests at Genova planned and some already pending, have to see them first.

I currently have one months supply of preg cream, shortly will have to think of what to order.
Am rather uneasy on making any unsupported changes.
 

rick055

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I am now using college pharmacy's cream and the transdermal is much better
Scottyo-

Is the pregnenolone cream you get a prescription item or can anyone buy it?

I know pregnenolone is available OTC.
 
JanSz

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Scottyo-

Is the pregnenolone cream you get a prescription item or can anyone buy it?

I know pregnenolone is available OTC.
The conventional wizdom says
otc creams have unspecified (and low) content of pregnenolone.

At the moment there may even be a question of
which compounding pharmacy makes preg cream that actually works.
 

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