Should I go on HRT?

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  1. Should I go on HRT?


    I am 38 years old and starting to show the signs of (aging) lower test levels. I still have a great body, strong as a bull, and have never used any steriods. I don't say this to brag just as backround information. It has been a lot harder lately to stay in shape, having problems sleeping, don't have the libido I once had, don't have the mental clarity I once had, recovery is horrible, jewels have gotten smaller, and most heart breaking I can not stay awake around 4:00 PM. No drugs or alcohol problems ever. I have had serious blows and injuries to the body thou. An MRI of my head was done and everything came back OK. Aches and pains in the joints and muscles are getting worse and worse.

    My blood work was at:

    total was at 429 ng/dL reference scale of 241-827
    free was at 15.8 PG/ml reference scale of 8.7 - 25


    Heart desease and bad lipid profiles are rampid in my family. Father and uncle have had open heart surgery and other uncles have had stints. I myself have Cholesterol levels of 200-225 and horrific tryglecerides eating healthy and working out 6 times a week. I am now on Vytorin that have corrected my levels and I am now at 140 total cholestoral.

    Also having children is not a concern as I have had a vasectomy.


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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis RR View Post
    I am 38 years old and starting to show the signs of (aging) lower test levels. I still have a great body, strong as a bull, and have never used any steriods. I don't say this to brag just as backround information. It has been a lot harder lately to stay in shape, having problems sleeping, don't have the libido I once had, don't have the mental clarity I once had, recovery is horrible, jewels have gotten smaller, and most heart breaking I can not stay awake around 4:00 PM. No drugs or alcohol problems ever. I have had serious blows and injuries to the body thou. An MRI of my head was done and everything came back OK. Aches and pains in the joints and muscles are getting worse and worse.

    My blood work was at:

    total was at 429 ng/dL reference scale of 241-827
    free was at 15.8 PG/ml reference scale of 8.7 - 25


    Heart desease and bad lipid profiles are rampid in my family. Father and uncle have had open heart surgery and other uncles have had stints. I myself have Cholesterol levels of 200-225 and horrific tryglecerides eating healthy and working out 6 times a week. I am now on Vytorin that have corrected my levels and I am now at 140 total cholestoral.

    Also having children is not a concern as I have had a vasectomy.
    Keep cholesterol (180-200)
    Do blood list, post #44.
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    Expand that test a little on Adrenals area

  4. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Keep cholesterol (180-200)
    Do blood list, post #44.
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    Expand that test a little on Adrenals area
    I agree with Jan... Low cholesterol around 140 will have a negative impact on Testosterone levels.

    Do not go on HRT if you don't have to... It's a bigger can than most people think. I've learned over the years, HRT is word that people throw around very very lightly.... big mistake!!!

  5. Quote Originally Posted by BigAk View Post
    I agree with Jan... Low cholesterol around 140 will have a negative impact on Testosterone levels.

    Do not go on HRT if you don't have to... It's a bigger can than most people think. I've learned over the years, HRT is word that people throw around very very lightly.... big mistake!!!
    I am in the same boat. I turn 35 next month and the Dr.'s are talking HRT but I am doing everything I can to avoid it. I am working with my Naturopath to come up with a solid solution for non hormonal test and GH boosts and we are making progress in the right direction I think!
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by windwords7 View Post
    I am working with my Naturopath to come up with a solid solution for non hormonal test and GH boosts and we are making progress in the right direction I think!
    Non hormonal test and GH?? Could you expand more on that please?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by BigAk View Post
    I agree with Jan... Low cholesterol around 140 will have a negative impact on Testosterone levels.

    Do not go on HRT if you don't have to... It's a bigger can than most people think. I've learned over the years, HRT is word that people throw around very very lightly.... big mistake!!!
    I am on the lowest possible dose. Without the vytorin my triglycerides skyrocket. The only thing I can think of is to eat junk. BigAk why did you not like it? I see you are trying to recover but what would be the negative impact of having levels between 700 and 900 as long as E2 is controlled?

  8. Nemisis,
    the low cholesterol thing is an issue right away.

    I would not opt for HRT right now.

    Do you get adequate sunlight? Go to bed early? and rise early?

    To ramp up cholesterol production I suggest getting in adequate amounts of red meat and fish oil(I like carlsons cod liver oil)

    Lose weight. Ideally we males should ALL carry a single digit BF%. If this is not the case, make it.

    We also need a more complete BW. I would especially like to see DHEA and E2.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis RR View Post
    I am on the lowest possible dose. Without the vytorin my triglycerides skyrocket. The only thing I can think of is to eat junk. BigAk why did you not like it? I see you are trying to recover but what would be the negative impact of having levels between 700 and 900 as long as E2 is controlled?
    How many carbs do you eat in any given day?

    You do realize that excess carbohydrate intake converts to triglycerides.

    I have seen a multitude of people who went low carb go off cholesterol meds, forever.

    I like red yeast rice as a natural statin

  10. Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Nemisis,
    the low cholesterol thing is an issue right away.

    I would not opt for HRT right now.

    Do you get adequate sunlight? Yes Go to bed early? 11:30and rise early? 07:00

    To ramp up cholesterol production I suggest getting in adequate amounts of red meat averageand fish oil(I like carlsons cod liver oil)a lot of omega 3

    Lose weight. Ideally we males should ALL carry a single digit BF%. If this is not the case, make it. Not going to happen but I do carry some abs

    We also need a more complete BW. I would especially like to see DHEA and E2.
    coming soon

  11. Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    How many carbs do you eat in any given day? Don't like sweets or pasta but I would say average. Avoid insulin spikes as I know what they cause.

    You do realize that excess carbohydrate intake converts to triglycerides. Did not know that.

    I have seen a multitude of people who went low carb go off cholesterol meds, forever.

    I like red yeast rice as a natural statin
    I will give it a try.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis RR View Post
    I am on the lowest possible dose. Without the vytorin my triglycerides skyrocket. The only thing I can think of is to eat junk. BigAk why did you not like it? I see you are trying to recover but what would be the negative impact of having levels between 700 and 900 as long as E2 is controlled?
    The T level not a precise indicator.
    The goal is
    FreeT~250 per dr Shippen
    or
    FreeT~300 per dr Delgado

    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
    post #58

  13. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    The T level not a precise indicator.
    The goal is
    FreeT~250 per dr Shippen
    or
    FreeT~300 per dr Delgado

    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
    post #58
    What does 15.8 PG/ml convert to on Dr. Shippen and Dr. Delgado's scale?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by BigAk View Post
    Non hormonal test and GH?? Could you expand more on that please?
    What I mean by that is not straight Test or GH but ways that you can increase your hormone level without surpression.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis RR View Post
    What does 15.8 PG/ml convert to on Dr. Shippen and Dr. Delgado's scale?
    Look at post #41
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
    There is dr Shippens chart.
    On that chart FreeT have both units systems.
    also:
    Testosterone Conversion Factor: pg/ml x 3.47 = pMol/L


    15.8*3.47=54.8 pMol/L
    -------------------------------------
    you want to have 250 or 300 of pg/mL , you have 15.8 pg/mL
    time to get some shots.
    What is your SHBG?
    Where is your complete blood test?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis RR View Post
    BigAk why did you not like it? I see you are trying to recover but what would be the negative impact of having levels between 700 and 900 as long as E2 is controlled?
    Freedom...

  17. 20-40


    Originally Posted by DrDelgado:

    and Free T at upper range of 200 to 300 (or 20 to 40 pg/ml depending on the nomenclature)


    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis RR View Post
    What does 15.8 PG/ml convert to on Dr. Shippen and Dr. Delgado's scale?

  18. Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    20-40


    Originally Posted by DrDelgado:

    and Free T at upper range of 200 to 300 (or 20 to 40 pg/ml depending on the nomenclature)
    Getting a grip on FreeT is a chore.
    Bottom line, do not rely on its numbers when gotten as result of testing,
    do not try to make units conversion.

    #1 FreeT tests are useless (there is a paper on this) with exception of one that is done at Quest diagnostics. Even Quest have more than one FreeT test. Only the one that is on my blood test list is any good, (I hope), {Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)}

    #2 To find out FreeT use a chart and TotalT and SHBG values.
    Values of TotalT and SHBG can (I hope) be converted from one unit system to another if need arises.

    #3 There used to be Freet testosterone calculator on the internet, luckily it is gone.

    #4 possibly dr Delgado will find time and elucidate. His numbers (or 20 to 40 pg/ml) may fit the FreeT test as given by LabCorp. Once I had it done, the range there is (6.6-18.1)pg/mL
    the Quests FreeT test I have on my list have a range (46.0-224.0)pg/mL
    The (200-300) numbers mentioned by dr Delgado may fit Quest's test or dr Shippen's use of the chart.
    ============================== ============================== ============
    I am posting this response here and on the thread where dr Delgado made his statement.
    Hopefully we will get some words from him.


    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/991716-post165.html
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/991863-post166.html
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDelgado View Post
    I will also suggest that aging is going to include a decline of hormones,
    within genetic differences, expect to augment back Testosterone,
    I keep mime and my clients under doctors monitoring,
    around 1000 to 1,200 ng/ml Total T,
    and Free T at upper range of 200 to 300 (or 20 to 40 pg/mldepending on the nomenclature)
    Aldosterone is best at 10 to 40 ug/24 hr,
    IGF-1 around 250 to 400 ng/ml.
    DHT 60 to 70 ng/dl,
    DHEA 300 ug/dl,
    insulin under 5,
    SHBG 10 to 30 nmol/l,
    Estradiol 35 pg/ml,
    with about 20 (2OHE) to 1 -16aOHE.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by BigAk View Post
    Freedom...
    From one shot a week? Complications? Side effects?

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis RR View Post
    I am 38 years old and starting to show the signs of (aging) lower test levels. I still have a great body, strong as a bull, and have never used any steriods. I don't say this to brag just as backround information. It has been a lot harder lately to stay in shape, having problems sleeping, don't have the libido I once had, don't have the mental clarity I once had, recovery is horrible, jewels have gotten smaller, and most heart breaking I can not stay awake around 4:00 PM. No drugs or alcohol problems ever. I have had serious blows and injuries to the body thou. An MRI of my head was done and everything came back OK. Aches and pains in the joints and muscles are getting worse and worse.

    My blood work was at:

    total was at 429 ng/dL reference scale of 241-827
    free was at 15.8 PG/ml reference scale of 8.7 - 25


    Heart desease and bad lipid profiles are rampid in my family. Father and uncle have had open heart surgery and other uncles have had stints. I myself have Cholesterol levels of 200-225 and horrific tryglecerides eating healthy and working out 6 times a week. I am now on Vytorin that have corrected my levels and I am now at 140 total cholestoral.

    Also having children is not a concern as I have had a vasectomy.
    Bioavailable testosterone range 120 to 600 ng/dl men (women 2 to 20) it is free testosterone pluse testosterone loosely bound to albumin. the higher the better, get the calculation at Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator

    So look up your albumin (protein in blood) and SHBG with your numbers plug them in to the calulation.

    I would predict your levels have declined and will continue to decline, working out will help, more sex will help (but which comes first the interest to have sex with good levels of Testosterone or sex, i think interest has to start with a great partner and good hormone levels.

    Your cholesterol is a time bomb, I know you guys dont want to hear this, yet your body without adding exogenous cholesterol (from your diet) will produce all that you need and in free living populations where they have a lot of sex and have high testosterone levels, they have very low cholesterol levels, further proof it doesnt take much cholesterol to make your own steriods. I maintain a cholesterol level of 120 to 150, and an HDL of 60, LDL of under 90. Triglycerides of under 100, and even after eating they dont go much higher than 150 unless i eat junk high fat, high meat eaters do. complex Carbs dont elevate triglycerides when taken in like titration, like a carbrator on the older muscle cars, fuel in with current activity level burned then no spill over to excess-triglycerides fat in the blood. Do the Delgado protocol at least just add one blended drink a day, do add Avena Sativa found in Lean N Fit (new), to release more free testosterone, clear the bad estrones, with DIM in Estroblock and raw blended drinks (Bok Choy and Napa cabbage, add USC -Ultimate Skin Charge cream, see science journals and read the ones on powerpoint and see the video and be sure to listen to the audio coaching of my clients posted for you for free.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis RR View Post
    What does 15.8 PG/ml convert to on Dr. Shippen and Dr. Delgado's scale?
    Get the book Forever Ageless, Advanced edition, by Ron Rothenberg, MD,
    P 277 -
    Bioavailable testosterone range 120 to 600 ng/dl men (women 2 to 20) it is free testosterone pluse testosterone loosely bound to albumin. the higher the calculated number the better, get the calculation at www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm

    I will announce a coming date to order his book to get a gift from UltimateMedicalResearch.com to assist his amazon rating, as Dr Rothenberg is one of top 5 guys in anti aging, including Shippen, Hertoghe, Steenblock, Crisler, and yours truely, Delgado, as I am in a brain trust with each of these guys to develop and teach the Delgado protocol

  22. Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    How many carbs do you eat in any given day?

    You do realize that excess carbohydrate intake converts to triglycerides.

    I have seen a multitude of people who went low carb go off cholesterol meds, forever.

    I like red yeast rice as a natural statin
    Leading causes of high triglycerides:
    Excess simple carbs, or fat, oils (virgin olive oil), I like virgins but not in my oil! cheese, meat,
    excess calories in relation to activity,
    Cholesterol meds are unncessary -see Statin vs High complex carb 70%, low fat under 20%, adequate protein 15% powerpoint posted at each of my talks Doctors get CME credits
    Last edited by Dwight Schrute; 11-14-2007 at 06:31 PM. Reason: to clarify statement

  23. Quote Originally Posted by windwords7 View Post
    I am in the same boat. I turn 35 next month and the Dr.'s are talking HRT but I am doing everything I can to avoid it. I am working with my Naturopath to come up with a solid solution for non hormonal test and GH boosts and we are making progress in the right direction I think!
    Read our book How to Look Great and Feel Sexy, by Nick Delgado and see for science articles to understand your problem, take the wellness survey at this site

  24. Dr. Delgado thank you for taking the time to respond. As far as the Cholesterol it is a huge heriditary problem in my family. My father takes in no cholesterol, exercises 2x a day, is not overweight, eats no red meat, no alcohol, no smoking, in bed and up early, takes vytorin and huge amounts of omega 3s and still has bad triglycerides. I will try your suggestions but I don't think I can do it without the vytorin. I will also be trying it out on my father.

    I will be following up with more bloodwork on 10/04/07. Would you consider HRT for me at this point?

    As far as sex and working out both are in good order. I just don't crave sex as I once did. No morning wood ever. If I wasn't in a loving relationship I don't know how the sex life would be. Working out has just become a chore. I would go into the gym like an animal wanting to tear everything apart. Now I just want to get the workout over and go home.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis RR View Post
    From one shot a week? Complications? Side effects?
    Nemesis... Freedom from many issue that will arise due to HRT; and there are many of them. A very few are:

    1) Dependency on life long meds that your body will not function without.
    2) Constant tuning, adding, adjusting meds in order to fall back in the normal ranges.
    3) Money and unreliable US health insurance.

    etc...

    again... just a few...
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