Bloodwork Results Are In! Help!

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    Bloodwork Results Are In! Help!


    Ok, I finally got my labs. My normal doc is on vacation, his partner evaluated the results and told me I'm fine.

    Before we get going, I take 20 mg simvastatin and 20 mg citalopram. I had been taking 20 mg Adderall XR, which I d/c 7 days before the draw.


    TEST, TOTAL.....342.....(400 - 1080 ng/dL) LOW

    TEST, FREE.....75.0.....(47 - 244 pg/mL)

    SHBG.....22.....(11 - 80 nmol/L)

    TEST, %FREE.....2.2.....(1.6 - 2.9%)

    DHT.....565.6.....(155 - 553 pg/mL) HIGH
    (the lab notes that the DHT test uses a kit designed by mfr for research use and although the performance characteristics of the test were validated it is not approved by FDA)

    LH.....7.0.....(1.5 - 9.3 mIU/mL)
    FSH.....7.7.....(1.4 - 18.1 mIU/mL)

    PROLACTIN.....7.7.....(2.1 - 17.7 ng/mL)
    CORTISOL, RANDOM.....4.8 ug/dL.....(no reference range given)

    PSA.....0.61.....(0.00 - 4.00 ng/mL

    ESTRADIOL.....35.....(0 - 52 pg/mL)

    T3.....119.....(60 - 181 ng/dL)
    FREE T4.....1.1.....(0.9 - 1.8 ng/dL)
    TSH.....1.71....(0.35 - 5.50 uIU/mL)


    (ARRRGH, didn't run a FREE T3)


    My blood chemistry/hematology was normal with the following exceptions:

    ALB 5.0 (3.2 - 4.8 g/dL) H
    ALK PHOS 41 (45 - 129 U/L) L
    AST 41 (0 - 34 U/L) H
    ALT 58 (12 - 49 U/L) H

    LIPIDS:

    CHOL 194 mg/dL (<200 Desirable)
    TRIGLY 261 mg/dL (<150 normal) HIGH
    HDL 40mg/dL NORMAL
    LDL 101 mg/dL NEAR OPTIMAL


    OKAY, total test is clearly low. Their reference range is for a 20 - 39 yr old male, I am 36. The lowest of their reference ranges, for a 60 and older male, is 350, which I am below!

    Free Test, while in the "normal range" is clearly in the pits. Interesting, because SHBG seems low. Wouldn't you think my free test would be higher?

    I also don't understand how DHT could be that high, given my libido and energy, although the lab does point out that specific test is for research, not clinical use.

    LH seems ok, FSH a little low? PSA is fine. It looks like estradiol could be lower.

    Even more interesting is the thyroid tests. TSH is 1.71 and my free T4 is at the low end? Total T3 seems ok but I know, they didn't run a Free T3 value. I'm going to have to get that done through LEF.

    Cortisol also seems awful low...adrenal fatigue? My 10 day average morning temperature is 96.5 degrees.

    Everything else is beyond me.



    GIMME YOUR THOUGHTS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    Ok, I finally got my labs. My normal doc is on vacation, his partner evaluated

    the results and told me I'm fine.

    Before we get going, I take 20 mg simvastatin and 20 mg citalopram. I had been taking 20 mg Adderall

    XR, which I d/c 7 days before the draw.


    TEST, TOTAL.....342.....(400 - 1080 ng/dL) LOW

    TEST, FREE.....75.0.....(47 - 244 pg/mL)

    SHBG.....22.....(11 - 80 nmol/L)

    TEST, %FREE.....2.2.....(1.6 - 2.9%)

    DHT.....565.6.....(155 - 553 pg/mL) HIGH
    (the lab notes that the DHT test uses a kit designed by mfr for research use and although the

    performance characteristics of the test were validated it is not approved by FDA)

    LH.....7.0.....(1.5 - 9.3 mIU/mL)
    FSH.....7.7.....(1.4 - 18.1 mIU/mL)

    PROLACTIN.....7.7.....(2.1 - 17.7 ng/mL)
    CORTISOL, RANDOM.....4.8 ug/dL.....(no reference range given)

    PSA.....0.61.....(0.00 - 4.00 ng/mL

    ESTRADIOL.....35.....(0 - 52 pg/mL)

    T3.....119.....(60 - 181 ng/dL)
    FREE T4.....1.1.....(0.9 - 1.8 ng/dL)
    TSH.....1.71....(0.35 - 5.50 uIU/mL)


    (ARRRGH, didn't run a FREE T3)


    My blood chemistry/hematology was normal with the following exceptions:

    ALB 5.0 (3.2 - 4.8 g/dL) H
    ALK PHOS 41 (45 - 129 U/L) L
    AST 41 (0 - 34 U/L) H
    ALT 58 (12 - 49 U/L) H

    LIPIDS:

    CHOL 194 mg/dL (<200 Desirable)
    TRIGLY 261 mg/dL (<150 normal) HIGH
    HDL 40mg/dL NORMAL
    LDL 101 mg/dL NEAR OPTIMAL


    OKAY, total test is clearly low. Their reference range is for a 20 - 39 yr old male, I am 36. The lowest

    of their reference ranges, for a 60 and older male, is 350, which I am below!

    Free Test, while in the "normal range" is clearly in the pits. Interesting, because SHBG seems low.

    Wouldn't you think my free test would be higher?

    I also don't understand how DHT could be that high, given my libido and energy, although the lab does

    point out that specific test is for research, not clinical use.

    LH seems ok, FSH a little low? PSA is fine. It looks like estradiol could be lower.

    Even more interesting is the thyroid tests. TSH is 1.71 and my free T4 is at the low end? Total T3

    seems ok but I know, they didn't run a Free T3 value. I'm going to have to get that done through LEF.

    Cortisol also seems awful low...adrenal fatigue? My 10 day average morning temperature is 96.5

    degrees.

    Everything else is beyond me.

    FYI, I had an undescended test (rt side) which was surgically corrected when I was about 10 y/o. Left

    side has hydrocoele and small varicocoele.

    GIMME YOUR THOUGHTS!
    Simvastatin
    Simvastatin is used together with lifestyle changes (diet, weight-loss, exercise) to reduce the amount of

    cholesterol
    MedlinePlus Drug Information: Simvastatin
    =========================
    Citalopram is used to treat depression. Citalopram is in a class of antidepressants called selective

    serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs).
    MedlinePlus Drug Information: Citalopram
    ===========================
    MEDICATION GUIDE ADDERALL XR
    http://www.adderallxr.com/assets/pdf...tion_Guide.pdf
    Adderall is a central nervous system stimulant. It affects chemicals in the brain and nerves that

    contribute to hyperactivity and impulse control.

    Adderall is used to treat narcolepsy and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).
    ============================== =
    You are missing FreeT3, FreeT4=on bottom of range, body temp low=96.5F=35.8C
    You already know that you are low on Thyroid.
    Get Armour Thyroid, 1/2 grain pills.
    Use STTM criteria but mostly your feelings, body temperature and pulse as a guideline.
    Keep on adding Armour but slow down, plus back down for two or three days when your resting pulse

    starts getting over 90bpm most of the time and stop increases when your temp reaches close but

    below
    37.00C=98.60F
    Blood test FreeT3 and FreeT4 at that time.
    ============================== =====
    LH.....7.0.....(1.5 - 9.3 mIU/mL)
    FSH.....7.7.....(1.4 - 18.1 mIU/mL)
    SHBG.....22.....(11 - 80 nmol/L)
    TEST, TOTAL.....342.....(400 - 1080 ng/dL)

    I would give up on any restoration effort.
    Just add Depo-T and Novarel hcg and live happy.
    You need
    TotalT~900
    to get there you need 125mg/week
    If you do not have any special aversy I would use E3D schedule for all
    (T+hcg+Liquidex)
    and use 31ga 3/10cc 5/15"long needle for subq T&hcg, two needles.
    Depo-Testosterone 200mg/mL
    125mg/week=125/200/7*3=0.27cc/shot on E3D schedule
    This is preliminary dose. Blood test should be bade in two to three months.
    Preferably at Quest per the list on post#44
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
    if not, do TotalT and SHBG and read dr Shippen's chart.
    Goal FreeT~250 on that chart.
    Also re-test E2 and DHT, use "ultra-sensitive" estradiol test if possible.
    --------------
    Also add prescription compounded pregnenolone cream, 100mg/1gram, use 1gram/day
    On day of shots do
    27 units Depo_t
    500iu Novarel
    0.5cc LiquiDex
    following two days are free of shots, but keep using preg cream.
    do not worry about DHT at this time
    Every other or third shot, little oil leaks out, I am using 5/16" needle, tiny and short.
    I increased by one tick the test I am using, in your case that would be 28 units rather than 27.
    Not sure if really necessary, it will not hurt anything if done uniformly.
    Will find out when blood test results come in.
    -------------
    ============================== =========================
    Check Adrenals, or at least have Cortef handy when using Armour, and use it when you feel that you

    need it.
    ============================== ==========================
    Using excessive amount of Armour can result in:
    irregular heartbeets
    nervousness
    weight loss
    insomnia
    elevated body temp

    Using sudden larger dose of Cortef may cause thyroid dump, careful.
    ============================== ============================== ====

    ALB 5.0 (3.2 - 4.8 g/dL) H
    ALK PHOS 41 (45 - 129 U/L) L
    AST 41 (0 - 34 U/L) H
    ALT 58 (12 - 49 U/L) H

    try to raise cipeil2 to coment on this.
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    I am going to get my the entire thyroid panel completely redone, including Free T3 and thyroid antibodies.

    I think I'll just do it through LEF, although I don't know if they have to use a certain lab; my choices are limited around here.

    JanSz, as I think I told you, I was also on augmentin which can throw off TSH, I think. My last TSH a year ago was 3.12.

    At any rate, thyroid needs to be redone.
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    I am going to get my the entire thyroid panel completely redone, including Free T3 and thyroid antibodies.

    I think I'll just do it through LEF, although I don't know if they have to use a certain lab; my choices are limited around here.

    JanSz, as I think I told you, I was also on augmentin which can throw off TSH, I think. My last TSH a year ago was 3.12.

    At any rate, thyroid needs to be redone.
    No mater how you turn things around it all comes down to proper level of

    FreeT3
    FreeT4
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    No mater how you turn things around it all comes down to proper level of

    FreeT3
    FreeT4
    Does the total level of T3 make a difference? Although my Free T4 was at the very low end, my Total T3 seemed mid normal.

    What makes Free T3 "free"? Is it like free vs. total testosterone?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    Does the total level of T3 make a difference? Although my Free T4 was at the very low end, my Total T3 seemed mid normal.

    What makes Free T3 "free"? Is it like free vs. total testosterone? Yes
    You can get to STTM site and get good education.

    My take home message,

    do not do other thyroid test until you got

    FreeT3
    FreeT4

    First
    FreeT3 at the top (use original not generic Armour)
    then
    FreeT4 close to top (may need little Synthroid)

    Other test make one asking questions that do not help in solving problem.
    But they are good for inteligent conversation.
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    The other thing that "weirds me out" is the cortisol number, which seems very low.

    I would hate to have to take cortisone, too, but I was on augmentin when I took these labs (minor mouth infection because I decided to perform minor surgery on myself so I'm wondering if that could skew that result.

    Also, the test was done at about noon, not first thing a.m.

    Isn't there a better type of cortisol test to do?
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    Is there anything you can do to free up more T3/T4 (like you supposedly can with testosterone) as opposed to just increasing the total levels with armour or synthroid?

    Any other comments on the labs in general?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post

    ALB 5.0 (3.2 - 4.8 g/dL) H
    ALK PHOS 41 (45 - 129 U/L) L
    AST 41 (0 - 34 U/L) H
    ALT 58 (12 - 49 U/L) H


    Increased albumin suggests you were fluid-depleted when the blood was drawn.

    The irregularities in AST and ALT are very mild - could be a result of the simvastatin. They could also result from a hypothyroid condition.

    Decreased ALK PHOS could reflect compromised nutritional status as a result of poor diet. It could also result from a hypothyroid condition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    Increased albumin suggests you were fluid-depleted when the blood was drawn.

    The irregularities in AST and ALT are very mild - could be a result of the simvastatin. They could also result from a hypothyroid condition.

    Decreased ALK PHOS could reflect compromised nutritional status as a result of poor diet. It could also result from a hypothyroid condition.
    I was a little fluid depleted when I took the test, no doubt.

    As to the AST/ALT, I have been on a statin for years and never had any problems.

    That said, my ALK PHOS is ALWAYS a little low, I remember reading about it at least a couple of times before. I know my diet is not perfect, but I don't think I have the type of deficiencies that would cause a consistently higher value, and I'm not wondering if it's the thyroid.

    Naturally, the one test they didn't run was Free T3. But don't my other thyroid values look a little off?

    Funny side story - I took my dog in to have her thyroid tested as she's putting on weight and her coat is getting ratty. When I asked the vet what tests he was running, it looked like an anti aging panel!! Sum and substance he said that looking at TSH only is way flawed and some vets have forgotten how to think.

    Now if only he'd call my doctor...I can't stand the low mood/energy much longer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    Increased albumin suggests you were fluid-depleted when the blood was drawn.

    The irregularities in AST and ALT are very mild - could be a result of the simvastatin. They could also result from a hypothyroid condition.

    Decreased ALK PHOS could reflect compromised nutritional status as a result of poor diet. It could also result from a hypothyroid condition.
    Spot on.

    Another little monkey wrench in the engine is that being dehydrated causes a false increase in T levels(probably a survival mechanism that dates back to caveman days)
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    One more note,

    I believe that cholesterol lowering drugs will lower androgenic hormones. It is an undeniable link, no matter what the MD's are spewing out nowadays.

    Cholesterol is the mother to ALL androgenic hormones, including T. Lower cholesterol, and the rest will follow.

    I could go on all day about cholesterol, but I will sum it up like this - I believe that they are one of the biggest scams pulled on the american public today. There is very little evidence that they decrease chances of heart disease, and in fact, cause more problems than they treat. My issue with them stems from the fact that they work TO WELL. They are way, way to potent.

    MD's are treating heart disease based on numbers - I.E cholesterol. This is how they think - numerically. This is flawed. Heart disease is a disease of inflammation. That is a number that is difficult to pinpoint.

    Red Yeast Rice is a much more natural, less potent, and safer way to use a statin. I have seen some very impressive cholesterol changes with it. Combine that with fish oil + vit E
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Simvastatin
    Simvastatin is used together with lifestyle changes (diet, weight-loss, exercise) to reduce the amount of

    cholesterol
    MedlinePlus Drug Information: Simvastatin
    =========================
    Citalopram is used to treat depression. Citalopram is in a class of antidepressants called selective

    serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs).
    MedlinePlus Drug Information: Citalopram
    ===========================
    MEDICATION GUIDE ADDERALL XR
    http://www.adderallxr.com/assets/pdf...tion_Guide.pdf
    Adderall is a central nervous system stimulant. It affects chemicals in the brain and nerves that

    contribute to hyperactivity and impulse control.

    Adderall is used to treat narcolepsy and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).
    ============================== =
    You are missing FreeT3, FreeT4=on bottom of range, body temp low=96.5F=35.8C
    You already know that you are low on Thyroid.
    Get Armour Thyroid, 1/2 grain pills.
    Use STTM criteria but mostly your feelings, body temperature and pulse as a guideline.
    Keep on adding Armour but slow down, plus back down for two or three days when your resting pulse

    starts getting over 90bpm most of the time and stop increases when your temp reaches close but

    below
    37.00C=98.60F
    Blood test FreeT3 and FreeT4 at that time.
    ============================== =====
    LH.....7.0.....(1.5 - 9.3 mIU/mL)
    FSH.....7.7.....(1.4 - 18.1 mIU/mL)
    SHBG.....22.....(11 - 80 nmol/L)
    TEST, TOTAL.....342.....(400 - 1080 ng/dL)

    I would give up on any restoration effort.
    Just add Depo-T and Novarel hcg and live happy.
    You need
    TotalT~900
    to get there you need 125mg/week
    If you do not have any special aversy I would use E3D schedule for all
    (T+hcg+Liquidex)
    and use 31ga 3/10cc 5/15"long needle for subq T&hcg, two needles.
    Depo-Testosterone 200mg/mL
    125mg/week=125/200/7*3=0.27cc/shot on E3D schedule
    This is preliminary dose. Blood test should be bade in two to three months.
    Preferably at Quest per the list on post#44
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
    if not, do TotalT and SHBG and read dr Shippen's chart.
    Goal FreeT~250 on that chart.
    Also re-test E2 and DHT, use "ultra-sensitive" estradiol test if possible.
    --------------
    Also add prescription compounded pregnenolone cream, 100mg/1gram, use 1gram/day
    On day of shots do
    27 units Depo_t
    500iu Novarel
    0.5cc LiquiDex
    following two days are free of shots, but keep using preg cream.
    do not worry about DHT at this time
    Every other or third shot, little oil leaks out, I am using 5/16" needle, tiny and short.
    I increased by one tick the test I am using, in your case that would be 28 units rather than 27.
    Not sure if really necessary, it will not hurt anything if done uniformly.
    Will find out when blood test results come in.
    -------------
    ============================== =========================
    Check Adrenals, or at least have Cortef handy when using Armour, and use it when you feel that you

    need it.
    ============================== ==========================
    Using excessive amount of Armour can result in:
    irregular heartbeets
    nervousness
    weight loss
    insomnia
    elevated body temp

    Using sudden larger dose of Cortef may cause thyroid dump, careful.
    ============================== ============================== ====

    ALB 5.0 (3.2 - 4.8 g/dL) H
    ALK PHOS 41 (45 - 129 U/L) L
    AST 41 (0 - 34 U/L) H
    ALT 58 (12 - 49 U/L) H

    try to raise cipeil2 to coment on this.
    Great post, I agree. You summed it up well.

    I would wait for a FT3 number first before jumping on thyroid.

    I would also like to add that often with a proper HRT regimine like T + Preg + DHEA + AI thyroid issues magically correct themselves

    And I like the idea of using a transermal first as a method to administer T.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post

    Funny side story - I took my dog in to have her thyroid tested as she's putting on weight and her coat is getting ratty. When I asked the vet what tests he was running, it looked like an anti aging panel!! Sum and substance he said that looking at TSH only is way flawed and some vets have forgotten how to think.

    Now if only he'd call my doctor...I can't stand the low mood/energy much longer.
    LOL this guy treats dogs better than 90 percent of the endo's that treat people!
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    One more note,

    I believe that cholesterol lowering drugs will lower androgenic hormones. It is an undeniable link, no matter what the MD's are spewing out nowadays.

    Cholesterol is the mother to ALL androgenic hormones, including T. Lower cholesterol, and the rest will follow.

    I could go on all day about cholesterol, but I will sum it up like this - I believe that they are one of the biggest scams pulled on the american public today. There is very little evidence that they decrease chances of heart disease, and in fact, cause more problems than they treat. My issue with them stems from the fact that they work TO WELL. They are way, way to potent.

    MD's are treating heart disease based on numbers - I.E cholesterol. This is how they think - numerically. This is flawed. Heart disease is a disease of inflammation. That is a number that is difficult to pinpoint.

    Red Yeast Rice is a much more natural, less potent, and safer way to use a statin. I have seen some very impressive cholesterol changes with it. Combine that with fish oil + vit E
    Lets work on inflamation, many other problems will go away.
    Protecting Against Inflammatory-Related Disease
    What Causes Elevated C-reactive Protein?

    Elevated C-Reactive Protein and Interleukin-6 Predict Type II Diabetes
    C-Reactive Protein and IL-6 Predict Death
    The following acronyms represent the most dangerous pro-inflammatory cytokines.
    TNF-a tumor necrosis factor-alpha
    IL-6 interleukin-6
    IL-1(b) interleukin-1 beta
    IL-8 interleukin-6

    Methods of Lowering Elevated C-Reactive Protein
    Print Friendly

    Inflammation (Chronic) - Page 2 Of 3: Online Reference For Health Concerns

    Because PTX, fish oil, and nettle directly suppress TNF-a, these agents should be temporarily discontinued during the time when one has an active infection.
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    One more note,

    I believe that cholesterol lowering drugs will lower androgenic hormones. It is an undeniable link, no matter what the MD's are spewing out nowadays.

    Cholesterol is the mother to ALL androgenic hormones, including T. Lower cholesterol, and the rest will follow.

    I could go on all day about cholesterol, but I will sum it up like this - I believe that they are one of the biggest scams pulled on the american public today. There is very little evidence that they decrease chances of heart disease, and in fact, cause more problems than they treat. My issue with them stems from the fact that they work TO WELL. They are way, way to potent.

    MD's are treating heart disease based on numbers - I.E cholesterol. This is how they think - numerically. This is flawed. Heart disease is a disease of inflammation. That is a number that is difficult to pinpoint.

    Red Yeast Rice is a much more natural, less potent, and safer way to use a statin. I have seen some very impressive cholesterol changes with it. Combine that with fish oil + vit E

    I believe statins have been found to exert quite an antiinflammatory effect. People taking statins often notice an improvement in inflammatory conditions unrelated to cholesterol.
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    I find my TSH number interesting. I took a TSH test last year and it was 3.42. Now my number is 1.71, but my Free T4 is on the low end. That said I was on an antiobiotic when these labs were run (doc said augmentin wouldn't skew anything) but I think I saw a reference that said TSH could be skewed. I don't know.

    Do any of you think I should have (some) of the labs redrawn without taking meds like the statin?

    Plymouth - do I correctly understand your post to suggest that if I was also a low/normal Free T3 (as I seem to be Free T4) that you would start with testosterone before you thought of doing something with the thyroid? I know I've read that low thyroid can cause low test, I didn't know that it went the other way, too.

    Also, does the cortisol number bother anybody? The labs were drawn at around noon, but that cortisol number seems awful low. Would you do a follow up test? I had discontinued adderall xr for a week before the labs (taken for fatigue), but have heard it can affect cortisol.

    And JanSZ, you said you would give up on any restoration affect. Why? Did your comment have something to do with the LH/FSH numbers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    I find my TSH number interesting. I took a TSH test last year and it was 3.42. Now my number is 1.71, but my Free T4 is on the low end. That said I was on an antiobiotic when these labs were run (doc said augmentin wouldn't skew anything) but I think I saw a reference that said TSH could be skewed. I don't know.

    Do any of you think I should have (some) of the labs redrawn without taking meds like the statin?

    Plymouth - do I correctly understand your post to suggest that if I was also a low/normal Free T3 (as I seem to be Free T4) that you would start with testosterone before you thought of doing something with the thyroid? I know I've read that low thyroid can cause low test, I didn't know that it went the other way, too.

    Also, does the cortisol number bother anybody? The labs were drawn at around noon, but that cortisol number seems awful low. Would you do a follow up test? I had discontinued adderall xr for a week before the labs (taken for fatigue), but have heard it can affect cortisol.

    And JanSZ, you said you would give up on any restoration affect. Why? Did your comment have something to do with the LH/FSH numbers?
    T4 to t3 conversion could mean low zinc, magnesium, selenium,high or low cortisol as well as depletion of antioxidant gluthione. Been here before many times. Also indication of liver congestion which can be affected by toxins or estrogens
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    I believe statins have been found to exert quite an antiinflammatory effect. People taking statins often notice an improvement in inflammatory conditions unrelated to cholesterol.
    I agree. My issue with them stems from the fact that they are way to potent. We cannot throw out the proverbial baby with the bathwater. We should never sacrifice T for the sake of lowering cholesterol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    Plymouth - do I correctly understand your post to suggest that if I was also a low/normal Free T3 (as I seem to be Free T4) that you would start with testosterone before you thought of doing something with the thyroid? I know I've read that low thyroid can cause low test, I didn't know that it went the other way, too.
    There are two sides of the fence on this.

    Some MD's feel like T should be treated first - then thyroid after. The opinion on that is proper T levels can often help restore so so thyroid functioning. Note that Im not saying full blown hypothyroidism. Im talking slightly lower than normal thyroid functioning. And it seems like that is what you probably have. Your numbers, even without a FT3 number, suggest your thyroid could probably be better, but not bad enough to jump on drugs - yet. There is much improvement that can be made without thyroid drugs. When one jumps on T + other androgenic hormones such as DHEA + Preg, often it wips a slightly sluggish thyroid into shape. More often than not, the general weight loss and all around improvement in health that often accompanies a HRT program will do this.

    Others feel like thyroid issues CAUSE low T levels. I think that is the case in some situations when we see a so so T level, like in the 400 - low 500's, and really bad thyroid numbers that suggest full blown thyroid issues. Im talking the bottom third of the range.

    But this is not your case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    There are two sides of the fence on this.

    Some MD's feel like T should be treated first - then thyroid after. The opinion on that is proper T levels can often help restore so so thyroid functioning. Note that Im not saying full blown hypothyroidism. Im talking slightly lower than normal thyroid functioning. And it seems like that is what you probably have. Your numbers, even without a FT3 number, suggest your thyroid could probably be better, but not bad enough to jump on drugs - yet. There is much improvement that can be made without thyroid drugs. When one jumps on T + other androgenic hormones such as DHEA + Preg, often it wips a slightly sluggish thyroid into shape. More often than not, the general weight loss and all around improvement in health that often accompanies a HRT program will do this.

    Others feel like thyroid issues CAUSE low T levels. I think that is the case in some situations when we see a so so T level, like in the 400 - low 500's, and really bad thyroid numbers that suggest full blown thyroid issues. Im talking the bottom third of the range.

    But this is not your case.
    Very well articulated, gotcha. That not only relieves some of my anxiety (although I agree, I still have to see the Free T3 number) about the thyroid, it makes my apparent plan of action pretty clear.

    It also leaves only a couple of remaining questions:

    1. Would you retest total/free T before beginning exogenous T (and maybe even d/c the statin) or do I just go for it. I can add that my last T test, one year ago, without a statin was still only 455 AND I was on 1 mg finasteride at the time, which can increase that number a little, I think (naturally, my chol and triglys were high).

    2. Does the cortisol number bother you? Again, it was at 12 pm for the draw.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    Very well articulated, gotcha. That not only relieves some of my anxiety (although I agree, I still have to see the Free T3 number) about the thyroid, it makes my apparent plan of action pretty clear.

    It also leaves only a couple of remaining questions:

    1. Would you retest total/free T before beginning exogenous T (and maybe even d/c the statin) or do I just go for it. I can add that my last T test, one year ago, without a statin was still only 455 AND I was on 1 mg finasteride at the time, which can increase that number a little, I think (naturally, my chol and triglys were high).

    2. Does the cortisol number bother you? Again, it was at 12 pm for the draw.
    Where did you have BW done?

    Do you have a DHEA number?

    I need a reference range for cortisol

    Do not sweat the fin use. No big deal. Your DHT numbers are sky high, so it looks like no long term damage was done.

    Given high DHT, get Preg cream. 100mg per day.

    Also, your one of the few that I would recommend to start with shots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Where did you have BW done?

    Do you have a DHEA number?

    I need a reference range for cortisol

    Do not sweat the fin use. No big deal. Your DHT numbers are sky high, so it looks like no long term damage was done.

    Given high DHT, get Preg cream. 100mg per day.

    Also, your one of the few that I would recommend to start with shots.
    Labs drawn locally (no other labs around), results from ARUP Labs, 500 Chipeta Way, SLC, UT where they were sent.

    No DHEA number, what will it tell relative to the rest?

    There was no reference range given for the cortisol, it was given in ug/dL and described as CORT,RANDOM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    I find my TSH number interesting. I took a TSH test last year and it was 3.42. Now my number is 1.71, but my Free T4 is on the low end. That said I was on an antiobiotic when these labs were run (doc said augmentin wouldn't skew anything) but I think I saw a reference that said TSH could be skewed. I don't know.

    Do any of you think I should have (some) of the labs redrawn without taking meds like the statin?

    Plymouth - do I correctly understand your post to suggest that if I was also a low/normal Free T3 (as I seem to be Free T4) that you would start with testosterone before you thought of doing something with the thyroid? I know I've read that low thyroid can cause low test, I didn't know that it went the other way, too.

    Also, does the cortisol number bother anybody? The labs were drawn at around noon, but that cortisol number seems awful low. Would you do a follow up test? I had discontinued adderall xr for a week before the labs (taken for fatigue), but have heard it can affect cortisol.

    And JanSZ, you said you would give up on any restoration affect. Why? Did your comment have something to do with the LH/FSH numbers?
    LH.....7.0.....(1.5 - 9.3 mIU/mL)
    FSH.....7.7.....(1.4 - 18.1 mIU/mL)
    TEST, TOTAL.....342.....(400 - 1080 ng/dL)
    I think your testis are stimulated enough and are not able to produce more T.

    Also I would make attempt to adjust all hormones (and other indicators) at the same time. Watch them using frequent tests and adjust all of them.
    This is on assumption that with this method one would feel better faster. You can always re-adjust (all of them) after next blood test. After a while, like Phil does, he readjust after two tests in the row show certain trend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    LH.....7.0.....(1.5 - 9.3 mIU/mL)
    FSH.....7.7.....(1.4 - 18.1 mIU/mL)
    TEST, TOTAL.....342.....(400 - 1080 ng/dL)
    I think your testis are stimulated enough and are not able to produce more T.

    Also I would make attempt to adjust all hormones (and other indicators) at the same time. Watch them using frequent tests and adjust all of them.
    This is on assumption that with this method one would feel better faster. You can always re-adjust (all of them) after next blood test. After a while, like Phil does, he readjust after two tests in the row show certain trend.
    I am in agreeance with JansZ.

    We do need a DHEA number. This will give us a general idea of androgenic hormone production like pregnenolone, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    I am in agreeance with JansZ.

    We do need a DHEA number. This will give us a general idea of androgenic hormone production like pregnenolone, etc.
    I'll get the DHEA #, but would you still start with testosterone (vs thyroid or in combination)?

    In other words which part do you agree with? JanSz seems to suggest treating everything at once, you seemed to suggest earlier that since my thyroid was low normal it made sense to start with TRT and see how the thyroid responded.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    I'll get the DHEA #, but would you still start with testosterone (vs thyroid or in combination)?

    you seemed to suggest earlier that since my thyroid was low normal it made sense to start with TRT and see how the thyroid responded.
    Yep.
  

  
 

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