Tcyp and high Estrogens

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    Tcyp and high Estrogens


    Hello, I’m somewhat new with TRT. Several months ago I was borderline hypogonadism (total T 332) with all the symptoms so my doctor agreed to Androgel, two packs a day (10mg). This worked well, bringing my total T to around 840, but each day was an up and down ride.

    For a couple of months I’ve been injecting T-Cyp, 150mg per week. The first injection was 200mg and I felt great for the next week or so. Since then I’ve felt pretty good for the first few days after the injection, then less alert and more tired each day until the next dosage. My libido is moderate I would estimate, but lower now than on Androgel. Had a blood test ordered by my primary care doctor at my HMO and my estrogen is high while my Estradiol appears to be more average. No this isn’t the full test one should have, but I’m working on my HMO doc to add more items.

    I have an independent Endo who is reluctant to start me on HCG, and believes that estrogen is ok if one does not have swelling breasts. He’s not seen this test yet. Will see him in 4 weeks.

    Will Armidex help my estrogen and/or my Estradiol. I’m taking zinc 50mg a day and Indoplex w/DIM 120mg per day. I’ve started taking Pregnelonone tablets 50mg, having read posts regarding DHEA levels, mine seem low?

    How does one interpret my Thyroid levels?

    Storks 8/15 Blood test:

    Testosterone/Tot(day 6 after inj.) 740 280-800 ng/dl

    Prolactin……………………………………… 8.1 2.1-17.7 ng/dl

    LH & FSH……………………………………. <1.0

    TSH…………………………………………….. 0.70 0.4-4.0 uiU/ml

    T3……………………………………………….. 91 58-159 ng/dl

    T4 FREE………………………………………. 0.85 0.70-1.48 ng/dl

    Estradiol……………………………………… 27.2 7.63-42.6 pg/ml

    Estrogen/Tot.Serum………………….. 187 130 or less pg/ml

    DHEAS………………………………………… 81.4 44.3-331 ug/dl


    I’m 54 yrs old, 6’4” 220lbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stork View Post
    Hello, I’m somewhat new with TRT. Several months ago I was borderline hypogonadism (total T 332) with all the symptoms so my doctor agreed to Androgel, two packs a day (10mg). This worked well, bringing my total T to around 840, but each day was an up and down ride.

    For a couple of months I’ve been injecting T-Cyp, 150mg per week. The first injection was 200mg and I felt great for the next week or so. Since then I’ve felt pretty good for the first few days after the injection, then less alert and more tired each day until the next dosage. My libido is moderate I would estimate, but lower now than on Androgel. Had a blood test ordered by my primary care doctor at my HMO and my estrogen is high while my Estradiol appears to be more average. No this isn’t the full test one should have, but I’m working on my HMO doc to add more items.

    I have an independent Endo who is reluctant to start me on HCG, and believes that estrogen is ok if one does not have swelling breasts. He’s not seen this test yet. Will see him in 4 weeks.

    Will Armidex help my estrogen and/or my Estradiol. I’m taking zinc 50mg a day and Indoplex w/DIM 120mg per day. I’ve started taking Pregnelonone tablets 50mg, having read posts regarding DHEA levels, mine seem low?

    How does one interpret my Thyroid levels?

    Storks 8/15 Blood test:

    Testosterone/Tot(day 6 after inj.) 740 280-800 ng/dl

    Prolactin……………………………………… 8.1 2.1-17.7 ng/dl

    LH & FSH……………………………………. <1.0

    TSH…………………………………………….. 0.70 0.4-4.0 uiU/ml

    T3……………………………………………….. 91 58-159 ng/dl

    T4 FREE………………………………………. 0.85 0.70-1.48 ng/dl

    Estradiol……………………………………… 27.2 7.63-42.6 pg/ml

    Estrogen/Tot.Serum………………….. 187 130 or less pg/ml

    DHEAS………………………………………… 81.4 44.3-331 ug/dl


    I’m 54 yrs old, 6’4” 220lbs.
    Estradiol looks ok
    Switch to E3D injections, keep the current weekly dose.
    Get more blood work, post #44:
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    Pregnenolone and DHEA pills did not worked for me, but prescription compounded pregnenolone cream does work for me.

    I do not use pure DIM, instead I use
    2 pills
    http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00359.html
    and 4 pills
    http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00969.html
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    [QUOTE=JanSz;977964]Pregnenolone and DHEA pills did not worked for me, but prescription compounded pregnenolone cream does work for me.

    Thank you JanSz. My endo will ask me to detail the dosage of the cream I'm sure. I assume you feel my estrogens are elevated due to the large dosage all in one injection?

    In terms of blood tests, I cannot afford the $400 Quest test, if I read their costs correctly, so I'll see how many I can get.
    •   
       

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    [QUOTE=Stork;978043]
    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Pregnenolone and DHEA pills did not worked for me, but prescription compounded pregnenolone cream does work for me.

    Thank you JanSz. My endo will ask me to detail the dosage of the cream I'm sure. I assume you feel my estrogens are elevated due to the large dosage all in one injection?

    In terms of blood tests, I cannot afford the $400 Quest test, if I read their costs correctly, so I'll see how many I can get.
    The blood test list cost $3500
    so be careful.
    OTOH, the whole list is paid fully by my insurance.
    I am 67yo, my insurance is Medicare.
    Any other insurance is probably better.

    For insurance to pay, you need to to do test per doctors perceived/suspected problem that you have. To document that, doctor uses ICD-9 codes.
    So really doctor can cause you not being paid, because he do not take time to figure your ICD-9 codes.
    You do not have to have that problem, all is need that you are suspected of having it.

    I posted my codes on the bottom of blood test list,
    some people may use that, others can use that as a starting point when asking doctor for the codes.

    And do not take doctor's BS for the face value, because that what it is, BS, no proper codes no insurance coverage.
    Rather simple, and nothing stops them from giving you good code except they often do not want to put their time into it.
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    [QUOTE=JanSz;978757]
    Quote Originally Posted by Stork View Post

    The blood test list cost $3500
    so be careful.
    OTOH, the whole list is paid fully by my insurance.
    I am 67yo, my insurance is Medicare.
    Any other insurance is probably better.

    For insurance to pay, you need to to do test per doctors perceived/suspected problem that you have. To document that, doctor uses ICD-9 codes.
    So really doctor can cause you not being paid, because he do not take time to figure your ICD-9 codes.
    You do not have to have that problem, all is need that you are suspected of having it.

    I posted my codes on the bottom of blood test list,
    some people may use that, others can use that as a starting point when asking doctor for the codes.

    And do not take doctor's BS for the face value, because that what it is, BS, no proper codes no insurance coverage.
    Rather simple, and nothing stops them from giving you good code except they often do not want to put their time into it.
    I am starting to no be a believer in liquidex stuff is just in consitant for my taste. I had a guy stay on exact same protocol for 4 weeks e2 was 20 and everything was the same next blood e2 48 ..
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    why 2x a week?


    Why switch to more than 1x per week injection?

    there seems to be a constant push from everyone here to do this, but unless totally necessary why do it.

    I have send Dr. Crisler comment on this as well (although I don't want to speak for him)

    2 times as many injections = 2 times as many holes in your leg = 2 times the risk of infection x every week for the rest of your life.

    unless a very good reason - maintain protocol.



    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Estradiol looks ok
    Switch to E3D injections, keep the current weekly dose.
    Get more blood work, post #44:
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    Pregnenolone and DHEA pills did not worked for me, but prescription compounded pregnenolone cream does work for me.

    I do not use pure DIM, instead I use
    2 pills
    http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00359.html
    and 4 pills
    http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00969.html
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    added another comment to bottom of my previous post...

    Why switch to more than 1x per week injection?

    there seems to be a constant push from everyone here to do this, but unless totally necessary why do it.

    I have send Dr. Crisler comment on this as well (although I don't want to speak for him)

    2 times as many injections = 2 times as many holes in your leg = 2 times the risk of infection x every week for the rest of your life.

    unless a very good reason - maintain protocol.

    ADDITIONAL COMMENT - without seeing BW when on Androgel, is it possible that libido is less due to less DHT than what results from a transdermal?
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    Thanks Wondering,
    I believe you are correct about the DHT from Androgel. The injections are easier and cheaper for me. How does one gain DHT?

    As for more frequent injections, my endo told me to stick to once a week until further notice. He's methodical and wants to change only one variable at a time–I'm working on him to allow HCG, which he says is expensive and for people who want children. He also was disinclined to allow SubQ injections, claiming that fat tissue is more prone to allergic reactions.
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    [QUOTE=hardasnails1973;978850]
    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post

    I am starting to no be a believer in liquidex stuff is just in consitant for my taste. I had a guy stay on exact same protocol for 4 weeks e2 was 20 and everything was the same next blood e2 48 ..
    I let you know my position in about two weeks.
    I had my blood drawn today.

    June 19/2007 I stopped Tcream and switched to 140mg/week Depo_testosterone.
    At that time I also added 0.5cc liquidex
    I changed my hcg schedule and dose.
    HCG 500iu per shot.
    Everything, (T + HCG + LiquiDex) are taken at the same time, E3D routine.
    I took my shots today after I came back from blood draw.

    T+hcg I take subq around navel, I use two same size
    31ga 3/10cc 5/16"long needles

    Note; people are arguing/objecting to frequent injections because they use large IM needles. This is my point.
    When my blood test results came I will have more proof that SubQ shots work.
    It is up to others to use it or keep arguing.
    So far I have a good results, also no pain, no infections etc.

    -------------------------------
    On Androgel and latter on Tcream I did not used Arimidex or Liquidex. My only AI was Chrysin in SuperMiraForte. I was also using
    Advanced Natural Prostate Formula with 5-Loxin
    for their content of Stinging Nettle that inhibits SHBG.
    My E2 was ok in last test (27), my SHBG=20, I thought it is kind of low, so I stopped the above pills when I changed to T shots on June 19/2007.
    Going by my pines behaviour, I feel good, this week is another week with three ejaculations which is my long term average since about 40yo, I am 67 now. So I hope for rather good test results, if anything, whatewer it will show will be my next baseline.
    ------------------------------------

    I could use somewhat more energy, I am going by how I felt when I was 27yo, my next hope is the comming "Metabolic oxidative profile" that I am going to talk about on my next dr visit.
    ============================== ===============

    Twice a week I have now profesional girl that I dance with for 1 1/2 hours.
    About 45 minutes into it I am sweating little more than I think that I should.
    I am not tired just sweating.
    Any reason for extra sweating?
    Compare dancing to aerobics.
    -----
    In mean time the girl is cooll no signs of sweat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stork View Post
    Thanks Wondering,
    I believe you are correct about the DHT from Androgel. The injections are easier and cheaper for me. How does one gain DHT?

    As for more frequent injections, my endo told me to stick to once a week until further notice. He's methodical and wants to change only one variable at a time–I'm working on him to allow HCG, which he says is expensive and for people who want children. He also was disinclined to allow SubQ injections, claiming that fat tissue is more prone to allergic reactions.
    I am not sure about total price, but there is DHT cream available.
    You could keep (inexpensive) injections and add DHT cream if blood test shows that you need extra DHT.

    I am not going to try to convice your doctor who likes you to stick with large needle.

    I am happy with my SubQ since June 19/2007 for both T&hcg on E3D schedule, both shots separately but at the same sitting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I am not sure about total price, but there is DHT cream available.
    You could keep (inexpensive) injections and add DHT cream.

    I am not going to try to convice your doctor who likes you to stick with large needle.

    I am happy with my SubQ since June 19/2007 for both T&hcg on E3D schedule, both shots separately but at the same sitting..
    Thanks JanSz; you are a very helpful person. Is it true that DHT can exacerbate BPH symptoms? I have a slight enlargement but very low PSA ( .52 ). I use Terazosin HCL, 5mg per day and that helps.

    My doctor is quite new to some of this. He prefers Testim(which worked well for me). Otherwise he injects his HRT gents with 200mg every two weeks but isn't too happy with the fluctuations he sees!
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    If he doesn't like the fluctuations, why doesn't he go to 1x per week instead of every other week.

    Amazing how people can be smart enough to go to med school, but not smart enough to think that thru. Look at half-life of Test Cyp and the peak of a single 200mg injection.

    It took me 2 seconds to figure that one out, why can't these doctors see it. It truly amazes me how many doctors are so behind the times and refuse to think for themselves.

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Stork View Post
    Thanks JanSz; you are a very helpful person. Is it true that DHT can exacerbate BPH symptoms? I have a slight enlargement but very low PSA ( .52 ). I use Terazosin HCL, 5mg per day and that helps.

    My doctor is quite new to some of this. He prefers Testim(which worked well for me). Otherwise he injects his HRT gents with 200mg every two weeks but isn't too happy with the fluctuations he sees!
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    I hope I don't come across as arguing, just offering alternative viewpoint.

    Again, I am not a doctor, so my info is not based on clinical practice, just regurgitating things I pick up from Dr. Crisler or Marianco, etc.

    You mention SUBQ T injections. Even there ,there isn't consensus - Dr. Crisler isn't sold yet, but Dr. Shippen is.

    Constantly evolving.


    [QUOTE=JanSz;979001]
    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post

    I let you know my position in about two weeks.
    I had my blood drawn today.

    June 19/2007 I stopped Tcream and switched to 140mg/week Depo_testosterone.
    At that time I also added 0.5cc liquidex
    I changed my hcg schedule and dose.
    HCG 500iu per shot.
    Everything, (T + HCG + LiquiDex) are taken at the same time, E3D routine.
    I took my shots today after I came back from blood draw.

    T+hcg I take subq around navel, I use two same size
    31ga 3/10cc 5/16"long needles

    Note; people are arguing/objecting to frequent injections because they use large IM needles. This is my point.
    When my blood test results came I will have more proof that SubQ shots work.
    It is up to others to use it or keep arguing.
    So far I have a good results, also no pain, no infections etc.

    -------------------------------
    On Androgel and latter on Tcream I did not used Arimidex or Liquidex. My only AI was Chrysin in SuperMiraForte. I was also using
    Advanced Natural Prostate Formula with 5-Loxin
    for their content of Stinging Nettle that inhibits SHBG.
    My E2 was ok in last test (27), my SHBG=20, I thought it is kind of low, so I stopped the above pills when I changed to T shots on June 19/2007.
    Going by my pines behaviour, I feel good, this week is another week with three ejaculations which is my long term average since about 40yo, I am 67 now. So I hope for rather good test results, if anything, whatewer it will show will be my next baseline.
    ------------------------------------

    I could use somewhat more energy, I am going by how I felt when I was 27yo, my next hope is the comming "Metabolic oxidative profile" that I am going to talk about on my next dr visit.
    ============================== ===============

    Twice a week I have now profesional girl that I dance with for 1 1/2 hours.
    About 45 minutes into it I am sweating little more than I think that I should.
    I am not tired just sweating.
    Any reason for extra sweating?
    Compare dancing to aerobics.
    -----
    In mean time the girl is cooll no signs of sweat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wondering View Post
    If he doesn't like the fluctuations, why doesn't he go to 1x per week instead of every other week.

    Amazing how people can be smart enough to go to med school, but not smart enough to think that thru. Look at half-life of Test Cyp and the peak of a single 200mg injection.

    It took me 2 seconds to figure that one out, why can't these doctors see it. It truly amazes me how many doctors are so behind the times and refuse to think for themselves.

    ---
    Absolutely; he should look at the Roid Calculator ( www.come.to/roidcalc )

    At least he's not the endo from Kaiser (hmo in CA) who told me to take anti-depressives and that all of us were suffering from the placebo effect!

    The one thing that bothers me is my slump in energy and mood about day four after the shot. From then until day seven I'm waiting to feel "light" again. HCG I'm thinking is one answer?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stork View Post
    Thanks JanSz; you are a very helpful person. Is it true that DHT can exacerbate BPH symptoms? I have a slight enlargement but very low PSA ( .52 ). I use Terazosin HCL, 5mg per day and that helps.

    My doctor is quite new to some of this. He prefers Testim(which worked well for me). Otherwise he injects his HRT gents with 200mg every two weeks but isn't too happy with the fluctuations he sees!
    Terazosin is a Hytrin.
    If you have a problems with it, try Flomax.
    I was using it for a while, it worked good.
    I stopped because of retrograte-ejaculations.
    They were driving me nuts.
    It was not the lack of ejaculate to the outside, it was the feeling of sperm going backward.
    I pee slow but empty my blader without any help, so I do not use Flomax now.

    There is a new procedure to do TURP.

    At Sloan Kettering Memorial (where I go) it is performed by
    Jaspreet Sandhu
    Greenlight Photovaporization of the prostate.
    Drive your self in the morning, have procedure done, drive your self back home after noon.

    I may consider it at one time.
    ========================
    Uroxatral
    another medicine for ease of urination, but there was a thread here of people not being happy about it.
    Try searching here.
    ==============================
    I am serious, try E3D and use 31ga needle, subq, you are going to escape ups and downs.
    That is why people like pellets, even levels.
    Except pellets are expensive and people wait too long for next set of pelets and go down too low.
    ============================== =
    Think estrogens when having prostate problems.
    Not only E2, all of estrogens.
    Proper testing of E2 is just a good start.
    There is 2, 4, 16, 2/16 to worry about.
    Often people have wrong E2 test done.
    I think the next step is FreeE2
    I am supposed to have it done with my today's blood draw, but they been known to screw up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Terazosin is a Hytrin.
    If you have a problems with it, try Flomax.

    Think estrogens when having prostate problems.
    Not only E2, all of estrogens.
    Proper testing of E2 is just a good start.
    There is 2, 4, 16, 2/16 to worry about.
    Thanks again,
    I do not know the significance of a Hytrin. As far as the estrogens are concerned, I've tested high in estrogens:

    Estrogen/Tot.Serum………………….. 187 130 or less pg/ml

    Any thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stork View Post
    Thanks again,
    I do not know the significance of a Hytrin. As far as the estrogens are concerned, I've tested high in estrogens:

    Estrogen/Tot.Serum………………….. 187 130 or less pg/ml

    Any thoughts?
    You are going to be told that you can't get it down that it is insignificant test and so on.
    Do not believe that.
    Get all estrogens tested, make effort to get them right.

    Use estrogen part on my list plus ether go to RheinLabs
    or (I will go there) or go to Great Smokies.
    GDX Endocrinology Laboratory Assessments
    get the 2,4,16 2/16 checked.
    -----------------------------
    I edited my previus post while you were writting.
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    Jansz,

    How do you lower total estrogens?

    Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT2 View Post
    Jansz,

    How do you lower total estrogens?

    Thanks!
    Identify where the metabolic blockage is and correct it. No drugs can do this only lifestyle changes and proper supplementations

    actually very simple
    1. If 16:2 ratio is out of balance - fish oil, exercise, DIM, cruicerious veggetables, iodoral, get off your fat ass and loss some weight, reduce (red meats,whole milk, butters, omega 6 oils)
    2. If 16:2 is fine but methyation is not working then sam-e, TMG, PC
    3. last part of the puzzle is still being worked on the quiones

    Others
    1. Add in calcium d glucurate to prevent reabsorption
    2.probiotic is prevent the prevent increase of beta glucoidnaise - breaks bonds of bounded estrogen and releases it back into the blood stream
    3. reservatrol to prevent attaching of estrogen receptors
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT2 View Post
    Jansz,

    How do you lower total estrogens?

    Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Identify where the metabolic blockage is and correct it. No drugs can do this only lifestyle changes and proper supplementations

    actually very simple
    1. If 16:2 ratio is out of balance - fish oil, exercise, DIM, cruicerious veggetables, iodoral, get off your fat ass and loss some weight, reduce (red meats,whole milk, butters, omega 6 oils)
    2. If 16:2 is fine but methyation is not working then sam-e, TMG, PC
    3. last part of the puzzle is still being worked on the quiones

    Others
    1. Add in calcium d glucurate to prevent reabsorption
    2.probiotic is prevent the prevent increase of beta glucoidnaise - breaks bonds of bounded estrogen and releases it back into the blood stream
    3. reservatrol to prevent attaching of estrogen receptors
    Thanks HAN, I am not a scientist but with HAN on board we had it made.

    What is PC?

    In my case I had about the whole above list covered and still on Oct2006 came up with

    Total Estrogens=260pg/mL(40-115)
    estrone, serum=78 pg/mL(12-72)
    Estradiol, sensitive=27pg/mL (3-70)

    but 13April2006

    Estrogens, Total, Serum=60pg/mL(130 or less)
    Estrone,serum=33pg/mL(<or=68)
    Estradiol, Ultra-sensitive=27pg/mL(10-50)
    Estradiol=45pg/mL(<52)wrong for men
    ============================== ================
    My "standard" supplements are Top 10 from LEF
    Top 10 Steps For Achieving Optimal Health
    plus few more. They did not cut it, as you see in first test.

    Then I increased DualAction from one pill to 6. (I decreased to 3 now).

    Also I added 2 TMG pills
    Tmg (Trimethylglycine), 500 Mg 180 Tablets

    I did not tested my 2/16 & 4
    but my guess is that they made the difference.
    ============================== =================
    After April's test I added Lugol's solution 4-6 drops daily.
    I also added 2-100mg Resveratols
    Note; DualAction already contains Resveratol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Thanks HAN, I am not a scientist but with HAN on board we had it made.

    What is PC?

    In my case I had about the whole above list covered and still on Oct2006 came up with

    Total Estrogens=260pg/mL(40-115)
    estrone, serum=78 pg/mL(12-72)
    Estradiol, sensitive=27pg/mL (3-70)

    but 13April2006

    Estrogens, Total, Serum=60pg/mL(130 or less)
    Estrone,serum=33pg/mL(<or=68)
    Estradiol, Ultra-sensitive=27pg/mL(10-50)
    Estradiol=45pg/mL(<52)wrong for men
    ============================== ================
    My "standard" supplements are Top 10 from LEF
    Top 10 Steps For Achieving Optimal Health
    plus few more. They did not cut it, as you see in first test.

    Then I increased DualAction from one pill to 6. (I decreased to 3 now).

    Also I added 2 TMG pills
    Tmg (Trimethylglycine), 500 Mg 180 Tablets

    I did not tested my 2/16 & 4
    but my guess is that they made the difference.
    Each client I have tested have come up high normal total estrogens. PRobably the reason is that its compsed of e1,e2,e3 and pssoible e1sulfate. Now the ratio of what those are needs to be determined through urine or further blood testing.

    one of my clients which has TT of 465 and shbg 20 and e2 of 22 has put on close to 20-30 lbs of muscle over a 6 months peroid now the problem is lean all over except abs so after having his thyroid checked its mid range. I decided to try and give him long jack, trans reservatrol, calcium D, TMG, before adding in natural thyroid and get his blood work done in 4-5 weeks to see what improvements he has made. I think this combination might be all he needs to goose up his hormones. He will be positing on here as a journal with blood test results from DR for verification. I had people accuse this client of being on juice and his blood test total off set that theory.

    I belive you can achieve just about optimal results with out TRT when examining the many variables to find the root cause of things which dr john does extremely well. I'm going to put this long jack, reservatrol, calcium D, TMG mixture to the test and see how well it goes throuigh actual blood results..

    PC= phosphodyl choline 98% not the crap you get in health food stores.

    NOTE ESTROGEN IMBALANCES WILL AFFECT CHOLINE AND IODINE UPTAKE INTO THE BODY .... POSSIBLE ANOTHER MECHANISM THROUGH HOW CANCERS ARE FORMED (ALTERED METHYLATION)
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Each client I have tested have come up high normal total estrogens. PRobably the reason is that its compsed of e1,e2,e3 and pssoible e1sulfate. Now the ratio of what those are needs to be determined through urine or further blood testing.

    one of my clients which has TT of 465 and shbg 20 and e2 of 22 has put on close to 20-30 lbs of muscle over a 6 months peroid now the problem is lean all over except abs so after having his thyroid checked its mid range. I decided to try and give him long jack, trans reservatrol, calcium D, TMG, before adding in natural thyroid and get his blood work done in 4-5 weeks to see what improvements he has made. I think this combination might be all he needs to goose up his hormones. He will be positing on here as a journal with blood test results from DR for verification. I had people accuse this client of being on juice and his blood test total off set that theory.

    I belive you can achieve just about optimal results with out TRT when examining the many variables to find the root cause of things which dr john does extremely well. I'm going to put this long jack, reservatrol, calcium D, TMG mixture to the test and see how well it goes throuigh actual blood results..

    PC= phosphodyl choline 98% not the crap you get in health food stores.

    NOTE ESTROGEN IMBALANCES WILL AFFECT CHOLINE AND IODINE UPTAKE INTO THE BODY .... POSSIBLE ANOTHER MECHANISM THROUGH HOW CANCERS ARE FORMED (ALTERED METHYLATION)
    What is the deal with Long Jack?

    It was recomended to me few years back by Herbal Powers Inc.,
    LJ100 Eurycyma Longifolia 100:1 extract Tongkat Ali

    That and their Alpha Male.

    The Long Jack did absolutely squat for me.
    For few months Alpha Male was working good, but then it went down hill.

    I still have a large supply of both of them.
  23. TT2
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Identify where the metabolic blockage is and correct it. No drugs can do this only lifestyle changes and proper supplementations

    actually very simple
    1. If 16:2 ratio is out of balance - fish oil, exercise, DIM, cruicerious veggetables, iodoral, get off your fat ass and loss some weight, reduce (red meats,whole milk, butters, omega 6 oils)
    2. If 16:2 is fine but methyation is not working then sam-e, TMG, PC
    3. last part of the puzzle is still being worked on the quiones
    Thanks HANs... (saw your video you were in amazing shape)

    What's 16:2, can you please explain that to me. Also what's PC?

    Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT2 View Post
    Thanks HANs... (saw your video you were in amazing shape)

    What's 16:2, can you please explain that to me. Also what's PC?

    Thanks!
    http://www.bodybio.com/downloads/pho...dylcholine.pdf

    16:2 relates to bad to good ratio of estrogens
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