womens health

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    womens health


    my wife is 24 and has had zero sex drive for over a year. she asked her obgyn if that was normal and she said yes. she has another appt. comin up and gonna get blood work. is there any certain levels that i should make sure get checked? estrogen, progest, test, ????. also if any women you know has this problem at this age, i would appreciate any personal experience.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ms84 View Post
    my wife is 24 and has had zero sex drive for over a year. she asked her obgyn if that was normal and she said yes. she has another appt. comin up and gonna get blood work. is there any certain levels that i should make sure get checked? estrogen, progest, test, ????. also if any women you know has this problem at this age, i would appreciate any personal experience.
    I suspect that a lots of woodo is going on with women HRT.
    They go lots of time by (subjective) feelings rather than by numbers from tests.
    I think that we on this board have a workable system, even if there are discussions about details.

    Women are different than men, not only because of their different hormone levels but also because of menstrual cycles.
    I think that older women that are after menopause could use our system,
    test blood (or also urine & saliva)
    make needed changes using human hormones.

    With younger, menstruating ladies it is more complicated, and menstrual cycle have to be accounted for.

    Amount of hormones used by women are much smaller and easier transferable as transdermals or intra-vaginaly.

    I think good education can be had by watching the sample test reports by (former Great Smokies Laboratory) Genova Diagnostics.

    Genova Diagnostics
    look at
    Women's Hormonal Health Assessment
    GDX - Women's Hormonal Health Assessment
    and
    Sample report
    GDX Women's Hormonal Health Assessment Sample Reports
    There is three reports
    premenopausal women (500K),
    menopausal women (500K),
    or women on HRT (552K).
    http://www.gdx.net/images/reportpdf/WHHA_premeno.pdf
    http://www.gdx.net/home/images/repor...Menopausal.PDF
    http://www.gdx.net/home/images/repor...opausalHRT.pdf


    Wish men's reports from Quest were arranged in such easy to read way.

    Note time when testing should happen, specially for premenaposal women.
    ============================== ========

    The other way would be to contact compounding pharmacies.
    Specially those ran by FIACP's.

    Described in my post #56
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    As for blood test at the moment I have nothing better than my list, save that PSA.

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    http://www.gdx.net/home/assessments/womenshealth/



    Women's Hormonal Health Assessment
    FAQ | Sample Report | Order | HRT Monograph
    This test provides a focused overview of hormonal balance in both pre-and post-menopausal women, using a single serum sample to evaluate dynamics of sex steroid metabolism that can profoundly affect a woman's health throughout her lifetime.

    Assessment Specifics
    Analytes:

    Total levels: estrone(E1) estradiol (E2) estriol (E3) testosterone (T) progesterone (P) DHEA-S
    sex-hormone-binding globulin (SHBG)
    2-hydroxyestrone(2-OHE1)
    16alpha-hydroxyestrone (16alpha-OHE1)

    Ratios:
    P/E2
    2/16 alpha-OHE1 Free Androgen Index
    E3/(E1 + E2)

    Percents:
    E1
    E2 and E3 in relation to total estrogen

    Estrogen Metabolism Assessment (subpanel) Analytes: n 2-OHE1,16alpha-OHE1 n Ratio: 2/16alpha-OHE1 n Estrogen Metabolism Index


    Specimen Requirement:
    6ml serum in SST (frozen)

    Modulation of hormonal balance in women is strongly linked to the genetic expression of aging and disease. Specifically, serum imbalances of sex steroid hormones-and their metabolites-have been shown important in influencing critical parameters of the degenerative aging process as well as the etiology of chronic health disorders in women.

    Assessment of serum hormone levels provides important clinical information about a powerful central aspect of female physiological balance. This profile measures circulating levels of the three major estrogens, two major estrogen metabolites, two major androgens, progesterone, and sex-hormone-binding-globulin (SHBG). A growing body of research links the balance of these hormones and their metabolites with primary mechanisms of bone turnover, lipid metabolism, cardiac function, cognitive and emotional health, immune function, as well as hormone-dependent diseases, such as breast and endometrial cancers and lupus.

    This one-day, single-sample serum assessment provides a comprehensive picture of hormonal balance in both pre- and post-menopausal women and includes clinically useful ratios. Using innovative, new assays to measure hydroxyestrone metabolites in serum, the analysis offers higher specificity, more streamlined processing, and a direct measure of circulating hormones that does not depend on renal function (unlike urine). All assays in this profile are fully validated and meet FDA requirements for in-vitro diagnostic use.

    Essence provides clinicians with a deeper, more precise clinical understanding of sex steroid metabolism, enabling them to better assess its unique impact on each woman's health. Specific ratios shed additional light on the bioactivity of sex hormones and their potential stimulatory effect on target tissues. This allows the detection and treatment of subtle aberrations that may promote hormone-dependent degenerative conditions, such as osteoporosis or breast cancer, even when total hormone levels are normal.

    Using test results, practitioners can quickly hone in on specific disruptions of hormone metabolism. Since most test markers can be modified by changes in supplementation, lifestyle, and diet, practitioners can develop and monitor customized therapies to optimize hormonal balance, improve symptoms of chronic disorders, and help prevent degenerative aging. This profile has important applications in the prevention and treatment of the most common and the most critical health conditions facing women, including PMS, Perimenopause, Polycystic Ovary Syndrome, Dysmenorrhea, Fibrocystic Breast Disease, Sexual Dysfunction, Breast Cancer, Heart Disease, Dementia, and Osteoporosis.

    ============================== ============================== =======================
    http://www.gdx.net/home/assessments/...rts/index.html

    View a full page sample report(40k) or download PDF files for: premenopausal women (500K), menopausal women (500K), or women on HRT (552K).
    ============================== ============================== =======================

    •   
       

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    http://www.gdx.net/home/news/2002/HRT_monograph.pdf
    ============================== ==============
    Hormone Replacement: Individualizing Treatment
    Mary James, N.D.
    Patrick Hanaway, M.D.
    After years of promotional messages about the benefits of hormone replacement therapy (HRT), the results from the recent
    Women’s Health Initiative1 (WHI) have come as a surprise to patients and health care providers alike, leaving them with more
    questions than answers. Results from this 5.2-year study of more than 16,000 women suggest an increased risk of breast
    cancer, heart attacks, stroke, and blood clots from using Prempro™, the most widely prescribed HRT regimen for women.
    Although some protective benefits from HRT were observed for hip fracture and colorectal cancer, the study was halted
    three years early on the grounds that the risks outweighed the benefits.
    Clearly the conclusions of this study are disconcerting and leave women with a decision that feels no more certain than a roll of
    the dice. There is no question that an increased number of HRT-supplemented women in the study experienced coronary heart
    disease, strokes, pulmonary embolism, and breast cancer. Additional studies such as the Heart and Estrogen/Progestin
    Replacement Study Follow-up (HERS II) corroborate these findings, demonstrating that cardiovascular risk occurs primarily in the
    first year of treatment.2
    It is important to bear in mind that the WHI trial tested only one drug regimen—a combination of conjugated equine
    estrogens (CEE), and medroxyprogesterone acetate (MPA), a synthetic progestin. The study’s results do not necessarily
    apply to the more bio-identical hormones, including estriol, estradiol, and oral micronized progesterone, which appear to
    have less adverse impact on health, particularly in breast cancer3,4 and vascular disease.5 Nor do these results apply to
    regimens utilizing lower dosages or non-oral routes of administration, both of which appear to be safer.5,6 It is not clear what
    the outcome would have been, had the study incorporated less potent hormones, along with a better assessment of the
    contributing risk factors.
    What can we safely conclude from these study results? The answer lies in biochemical individuality. Since disease results
    from a combination of genetic predisposition and environmental stressors, HRT may be the defining factor in whether a
    woman who is genetically predisposed to cardiovascular disease or breast cancer actually develops disease. It is probably
    safe to assume that many women who experience heart attacks, stroke, blood clots, or breast cancer after undergoing HRT
    are already at risk for these conditions before starting treatment.
    The WHI Study highlights the perils of applying “one-size-fits-all” medicine, but also plants the seed for better understanding
    the specific patients in whom HRT will be beneficial. Our goal is to better understand HRT: to apply it properly, individualize it
    appropriately, and monitor it thoroughly.
    We can do this by carefully evaluating each woman’s unique set of genetic, environmental, and physiological risk factors.
    Advanced and specialized laboratory markers are available to help practitioners and their patients more accurately assess
    the potential risks and benefits of HRT for each patient. The information gleaned from these laboratory assessments might
    have helped us understand why some HRT users in the WHI trial developed breast cancer or heart disease, while others
    didn’t (or, for that matter, why so many women not on HRT still develop the diseases).
    More importantly, these genetic and biochemical evaluations allow health care providers to practice a level of personalized
    medicine that provides the clinical foundation for individualized approaches to HRT.
    Š 2007 Genova Diagnostics
    MONOGRAPH
    1. PRE-HRT EVALUATION: To identify women with a high risk of developing negative health conditions from HRT, as well as
    those most likely to benefit from HRT with minimal associated risks. This allows each woman to make a more informed
    decision about the use of HRT based on her unique array of personal risk factors. In addition, it ensures that the
    physiologic systems of women who decide not to use HRT are adequately assessed and supported by other treatment
    strategies.
    2. HRT MONITORING: To monitor the potential safety and efficacy of HRT in women who decide to undergo such therapy.
    This allows women to be treated for any imbalances, including sex steroid hormones, which could lead to problems if
    unchecked.
    1) PRE-HRT EVALUATION: Weighing the Risks and Benefits of HRT
    As many as 85% of women in the perimenopausal period experience vasomotor symptoms and vaginal atrophy.7 Although
    HRT has been proven effective in alleviating these symptoms, a determination of the risks and benefits is necessary to
    individualize the decision about HRT.
    Given the results of the WHI study, it seems clear that a woman with a personal history of heart disease, stroke, or breast
    cancer should avoid HRT. For women whose individual disease risk is less certain, functional laboratory evaluation of each
    woman’s unique and dynamic physiology (described later in this article) can reveal high-risk, pre-disease imbalances that
    can lead to a cardiovascular event or cancer. Supportive therapies may be instituted to remedy these imbalances; in severe
    cases, HRT may be considered a contraindication.
    Along with the functional assessments, a one-time measurement of genetic susceptibility to disease can help determine the
    likelihood of these genes being switched "on" or "off" by environmental factors. For a woman with a strong genetic
    predisposition to problems such as clot formation or inflammation, for example, HRT may be considered too risky a venture.
    On the other hand, a woman showing high genetic risk for osteoporosis, but low risk in these other areas, may be a good
    candidate for HRT.
    Assessing Genetic Predisposition
    Breast Cancer Risk
    Interleukin-6 (IL-6) and tumor necrosis factor-α (TNF-α) are pro-inflammatory cytokines that play important roles in
    regulating estrogen synthesis in peripheral tissues, including breast. Both cytokines tend to increase estrogen production via
    key enzymes.8 Although environmental factors influence the activity of cytokines such as IL-6 and TNF-α, genetic variations
    will predispose a woman to their increased activity, raising the risk of associated estrogen–dependent health conditions,
    such as breast cancer.
    How estrogen is metabolized in a woman’s body is another determinant in breast cancer risk. Estrogen is metabolized either
    to 16α-hydroxyestrone (16α-OHE1), high levels of which are associated with breast cancer,9 or to 2-hydroxyestrone (2-OHE1)
    which, in turn, is methylated to the more protective methoxyestrone. The ratio between these metabolites is considered an
    important factor in evaluating estrogen’s potential stimulatory effect on target tissues.10
    In addition, research has demonstrated an inverse correlation between intake of dietary folate (a critical cofactor in
    methylation) and breast cancer risk.11 An inborn defect in this methylation process, as measured by a common genetic
    variation (or “polymorphism”) in the MTHFR enzyme, may predispose a woman to less favorable estrogen metabolism, thus
    increasing her chances of developing cancer.
    Heart Disease Risk
    With menopause comes an increase in cardiovascular risk; inflammation is one of the primary mechanisms involved. The
    activity of certain cytokines can signal this. Increased activity of IL-6 and TNF-α predicts a poor prognosis in patients with
    acute coronary syndromes.12 IL-6 is also a powerful inducer of the acute phase response, which leads not only to intimal
    Š 2007 Genova Diagnostics
    thickening and plaque disruption but also to increases in fibrinogen, and in C-reactive protein (CRP), a strong predictive risk
    factor for cardiovascular events.13 Furthermore, IL-6 stimulates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis; chronic
    overactivation of this system is associated with central obesity, hypertension, and insulin resistance—factors that may raise
    cardiovascular risk in menopause.12
    Clot Formation Risk
    For the women using HRT in the WHI study, the increase in the rate of vascular disorders was higher than that for any other
    condition. While the route of administration of the drugs may have had a bearing on the results (oral hormones stimulate
    hepatic production of proteins, including clotting factors5), not all of the women on HRT developed clots.
    One key point to keep in mind is each woman’s genetic susceptibility to blood clotting mechanisms. Polymorphisms in the
    genes regulating coagulation, such as Factor II and Factor V, may explain why, despite the various cardiovascular benefits
    afforded by estrogen replacement, a subset of women still show an increase in cardiovascular events after initiating HRT.14
    In general, persons who are heterozygous or homozygous for a Factor V Leiden mutation have 4-7 times and 50-100 times
    increased risk, respectively, for venous thromboembolism (VTE). The presence of this polymorphism in combination with HRT
    appears to increase the risk of VTE as much as 15-fold compared with non-carriers who use HRT.15
    Treatment with estrogens significantly increases clotting factors, including Factor II, with the degree of elevation correlating
    with dose.
    16 A recent study demonstrated the role of the Factor II mutation in nonfatal heart attacks in women, at least in
    those with hypertension.17 Women on HRT who carried the Factor II polymorphism showed an 11-fold increased risk of nonfatal
    myocardial infarctions compared with non-carriers and nonusers of HRT. A polymorphism in this gene should be considered
    a contraindication for HRT.
    Osteoporosis Risk
    On the benefit side of HRT, research has fairly consistently demonstrated estrogen’s ability to retard bone resorption.18,19 For a
    woman at low risk of breast cancer, heart disease, and thromboembolism, but at high genetic risk of osteoporosis, the
    benefits of HRT for bone may outweigh the risks.
    Polymorphisms related to bone can not only help determine which women are at high risk of osteoporosis, but also which
    women with high risk are most likely to benefit from HRT. For example, a polymorphism in the vitamin D receptor gene
    indicates a higher risk of osteoporosis. HRT, however, increases bone mineral density substantially more in women who have
    the polymorphism in both chromosomes (homozygotes) than in those who only have the polymorphism in one chromosome
    (heterozygotes).20
    Genomics Assays
    The following evaluations can be used to examine inborn, genetic risk of cardiovascular disease, breast cancer, and
    osteoporosis in women considering HRT:
    • ImmunoGenomic™ Profile—Measures a variety of cytokines related to inflammation (relevant to breast cancer,
    cardiovascular disease, and osteoporosis), including IL-1b, IL-1RN, TNF-a, IL-4, IL-6, IL-10, and IL-13
    • CardioGenomic™ Profile—Measures genetic predisposition to cardiovascular problems, including coagulation defects
    (Factors II and V), methylation impairment (MTHFR), lipid defects, atherosclerosis, hypertension, and oxidative stress
    • OsteoGenomic™ Profile—Examines genetic predisposition to osteoporosis, including type I collagen, calcitonin receptor,
    vitamin D receptor, parathyroid hormone receptor, IL-1RN, and TNFa
    Once genetic susceptibility to cardiovascular problems, breast cancer, and osteoporosis has been assessed, functional
    assays in these areas can be used to evaluate current health status. Similar to the genetic testing, such assays can help
    determine risks in advance of HRT; however, they are also valuable in monitoring health risks during therapy. With the added
    clinical insight these evaluations provide, practitioners have the opportunity to treat pre-disease imbalances developing from
    HRT before they progress to overt disease.
    Š 2007 Genova Diagnostics
    2) HRT-MONITORING: How can the women who decide to use HRT feel safe?
    HRT has primarily been prescribed for symptoms such as hot flashes. Many of the 17 million women currently using HRT
    experience significant relief from these symptoms and may be reluctant to discontinue HRT. Some women on HRT already
    have osteoporosis and/or a family history of the disease and therefore choose to take advantage of the bone-preserving
    benefits of HRT. How can these women feel safe while using HRT?
    Breast Cancer
    Hormone levels can serve as very important indicators of breast cancer risk during HRT. Several studies
    have linked high levels of bioavailable estrogen or testosterone with increased incidence of breast cancer.21 Estrogens are
    believed to promote breast cancer by encouraging cell proliferation in the breast. On the other hand, estradiol bound to sex
    hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) is associated with a lower risk,22 presumably because of the lower amount of bioavailable
    hormone. SHBG concentrations, as well as aromatase activity (converting androgens to estrogens), are modified by
    numerous environmental factors. Monitoring levels of SHBG and sex steroids can alert the practitioner to advise
    adjustments in diet, lifestyle, and HRT regimens to restore hormonal balance.
    As mentioned above, some of the risk associated with estrogen is dependent upon how this hormone is metabolized. The
    ratio of the primary estrogen metabolites 2-OHE1 to 16α-OHE1 correlates highly with breast cancer risk.10,23 The ratio is often
    easily modified by various dietary and lifestyle factors. Monitoring these metabolites in serum or urine can reveal how
    endogenous or exogenous estrogen is being broken down, so that the physician can better gauge how the body’s
    breakdown of the hormones used in HRT may be affecting the patient’s breast cancer risk.
    Cardiovascular Disease
    The inflammation that drives the synergistic process of cardiovascular disease is reflected by acute-phase markers such as
    CRP. Although estrogen replacement decreases cell adhesion molecules that promote fatty plaque build-up in the arteries, it
    also increases CRP, which stimulates their expression.24 This paradoxical effect illustrates the importance of monitoring CRP
    during estrogen therapy. It is possible that estrogen-induced elevations of CRP—signifying heightened inflammation—could
    explain the increased number of cardiac events observed in the WHI study.
    Monitoring estrogen’s effect on cholesterol metabolism is also crucial. Although estrogen replacement generally has a
    favorable impact on lipids, lowering LDL-cholesterol, the actual risk associated with LDL depends upon its composition. A
    predominance of small, dense LDL particles—associated with hyperfibrinogenemia in postmenopausal women—is linked to
    a 2- to 3-fold increase in coronary heart disease risk.25 LDL particles that are larger and more buoyant do not seem to be as
    potentially detrimental to cardiac health.26
    Lipoprotein (a) (Lp(a)) is an independent hereditary risk factor for heart attack and stroke.27 Studies such as the
    Postmenopausal Estrogen/Progestin Intervention (PEPI) have demonstrated the ability of estrogen therapy to produce
    reductions in both Lp(a)28 and homocysteine29 concentrations in postmenopausal women.
    Individual evaluation of lipid fractions and independent risk factors for cardiovascular disease, such as CRP, fibrinogen,
    Lp(a), and homocysteine (and the related MTHFR polymorphism), enables the practitioner to weigh the potential cardiac
    risks and benefits associated with HRT.
    Monitoring key markers of fat and blood sugar metabolism is also important. The menopausal transition is often associated
    with an increase in abdominal and visceral adipose tissue accumulation.30 Increased visceral fat appears to play a major role
    in the pathogenesis of insulin resistance, which increases the risk of type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease,31 as well as
    breast cancer.32 Although estrogen replacement appears to attenuate some of these tendencies toward central fat and
    insulin resistance,30 additional or alternative measures may be required for some women. Monitoring glucose and insulin
    dynamics can help in making this determination.
    Osteoporosis
    HRT is recognized for its ability to inhibit the increased rate of bone resorption at menopause. The clinical impact of HRT on
    bone tissue can be easily monitored with biochemical markers of bone turnover such as Deoxypyridinoline (Dpd). Urine
    Š 2007 Genova Diagnostics
    levels typically decline within about 30 days of starting estrogen therapy33 and correlate over time with increases in bone
    mineral density (BMD).34
    As with other interventions, however, HRT is likely to be more effective for some women than for others. Photon
    absorptiometry can indicate changes in BMD over time. However, these measurements should only be used infrequently, so
    a significant amount of bone may be lost between them. Research also suggests that bone turnover may be a better
    indicator of fracture risk than bone density.35 Periodic measurements of Dpd in the urine enable the practitioner to more
    accurately gauge the patient’s response to treatment.
    Functional Assessments
    For a woman taking HRT, the following assessments are useful in monitoring her health status over time. If HRT is observed
    to increase her risks, or if supportive therapies fail to compensate for observed imbalances, then a decision may be rightly
    made to stop HRT.
    • Comprehensive Cardiovascular Profile 2.0—Provides a comprehensive serum assessment of total cholesterol, LDL and
    HDL cholesterol (including fractionation), Relative Risk Indices, ratios, and the independent risk factors Lp(a), homocysteine,
    CRP, and fibrinogen
    • Estrogen Metabolism Assessment—Provides a urinary or serum evaluation of estrogen metabolism, including 2- and 16a-
    OHE1, 2:16a-OHE1 ratio, and Estrogen Metabolism Index
    • Women’s Hormonal Health Assessment—Provides a comprehensive serum assessment of sex steroid hormones and their
    metabolism. Includes a serum Estrogen Metabolism Assessment, estradiol, estrone, estriol, progesterone, DHEA-S,
    testosterone, SHBG, and ratios
    • Metabolic Dysglycemia Profile—Provides blood measurements of fasting and 2-hour post-prandial glucose and insulin,
    along with other hormonal factors influencing fat and blood sugar metabolism
    • Bone Resorption Assessment—Provides urinary measurement of pyridinium crosslinks, including bone-specific
    deoxypyridinoline
    Should HRT be the goal?
    Results from the WHI study suggest that HRT offers fewer protective health benefits than previously thought. Although
    ovarian function declines with menopause, a healthy woman continues to produce small amounts of hormones, mostly from
    adrenal precursors and aromatization in adipose tissue. Some women are able transition through menopause with a
    minimum of symptoms. With proper attention to evaluation and therapeutic support, many women can avoid symptoms
    associated with menopause.
    Although HRT issues are complex, advanced diagnostic tools enable practitioners to implement a personalized medicine
    approach to women’s healthcare—one that promises to more effectively address each patient’s individual needs and
    concerns about HRT.
    Questions?
    For more information, or to order the tests described above, please call our Clinical Support Department at (800) 522-4762.
    You can find detailed information on the functional assessments by visiting our website: www.GDX.net. For information on
    the genomic profiles, log on to Genovations- Predictive Genomics.
    Š 2007 Genova Diagnostics

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    From previous post:
    ============================== =================
    Treatment with estrogens significantly increases clotting factors, including Factor II, with the degree of elevation correlating
    with dose.

    ============================== ==============

    I conclude that keeping all estrogens in their respective ranges is also important for men, if not for erection then for blood clothing reasons.

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    Good starting tests (woman or man):



    http://www.gdx.net/home/news/2002/HRT_monograph.pdf

    Functional Assessments
    For a woman taking HRT, the following assessments are useful in monitoring her health status over time. If HRT is observed
    to increase her risks, or if supportive therapies fail to compensate for observed imbalances, then a decision may be rightly
    made to stop HRT.
    Comprehensive Cardiovascular Profile 2.0—Provides a comprehensive serum assessment of total cholesterol, LDL and
    HDL cholesterol (including fractionation), Relative Risk Indices, ratios, and the independent risk factors Lp(a), homocysteine,
    CRP, and fibrinogen
    Estrogen Metabolism Assessment—Provides a urinary or serum evaluation of estrogen metabolism, including 2- and 16a-
    OHE1, 2:16a-OHE1 ratio, and Estrogen Metabolism Index
    Women’s Hormonal Health Assessment—Provides a comprehensive serum assessment of sex steroid hormones and their
    metabolism. Includes a serum Estrogen Metabolism Assessment, estradiol, estrone, estriol, progesterone, DHEA-S,
    testosterone, SHBG, and ratios
    Metabolic Dysglycemia Profile—Provides blood measurements of fasting and 2-hour post-prandial glucose and insulin,
    along with other hormonal factors influencing fat and blood sugar metabolism
    Bone Resorption Assessment—Provides urinary measurement of pyridinium crosslinks, including bone-specific
    deoxypyridinoline

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    Unless her dr is fairly progressive (which it doesn't sound like) then the blood tests they do will be virtually useless. They rarely test the actual hormone levels, instead testing FSH/LH, or they use inaccurate tests for hormone levels. I know some people have a problem with saliva testing, but in my experience it has served patients well. You can do this on your own normally through a compounding pharamcy, while you're there, ask them for a reccomendation for a good dr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    Unless her dr is fairly progressive (which it doesn't sound like) then the blood tests they do will be virtually useless. They rarely test the actual hormone levels, instead testing FSH/LH, or they use inaccurate tests for hormone levels. I know some people have a problem with saliva testing, but in my experience it has served patients well. You can do this on your own normally through a compounding pharamcy, while you're there, ask them for a reccomendation for a good dr.
    I can go to compounding pharmacy and get a help ordering the tests that I want.

    Did not knew that, any specifics you may want to add.

    What are your recomended tests
    for women
    for men

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    Estrogens, progesterone, dhea, free testosterone, FAI, shbg, fsh, lh

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    Any history with birth control?

    If so it is likely her hormone profile is fuked up. Expect to see a SHBG reading 7-10 times above normal and a T level of a eunich.

    This is permanent FYI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Any history with birth control?

    If so it is likely her hormone profile is fuked up. Expect to see a SHBG reading 7-10 times above normal and a T level of a eunich.

    This is permanent FYI.
    I have heard this story about birth control pills.
    I suspect that close to 100% women is/was on those pills.

    I also think that it may be a similar to finasteride.
    The 2-3% who used it get really screwed, for most it is easily reversible situation.

    Nothing to back it up, just a guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I can go to compounding pharmacy and get a help ordering the tests that I want.

    Did not knew that, any specifics you may want to add.

    What are your recomended tests
    for women
    for men
    I was referring to saliva/blood spot testing. Many states allow pts to self order labs, so compounding pharmacies often sell the kits. Of course these are not as elaborate as the testing many on this board do, but it is a start. I know there is some argument with this type of testing, but I have found it very useful.
    Depending on what the pt will pay for, I want testosterone, estradiol, dhea-s, and cortisol (x4 samples throughout day), progesterone (at least in women), and SHGB (esp men), PSA in men.

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    Someone posted a really neat study on here and I can't remember who about how DHEA is responsible for a women's libido.

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    DHEA helps to lower SHBG as well as provide minor test/androgen support. IMO, test or preg supplementation should also be considered based on what the labs look like.

    My wife was on oral BC for about 10 years and it totally killed off her libido. With the help of our naturopath, we supplemented her on 10 mg of DHEA and there was a significant increase in her libido once her DHEA-S levels reached mid/high normal range. It still wasn't quite as high as used to be which I think has more to do with free test and prog levels but we still need to get her tested first.

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    well im happy to say, that i once again laid out my issues with our sex life, put it tactfully that things needed to change or this might not work. that night we had the best sex ever in our relationship. the trick now is to see if it continues. i also told her this will be the last time i want to have to deal with this. i hope and think she got the message.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ms84 View Post
    well im happy to say, that i once again laid out my issues with our sex life, put it tactfully that things needed to change or this might not work. that night we had the best sex ever in our relationship. the trick now is to see if it continues. i also told her this will be the last time i want to have to deal with this. i hope and think she got the message.
    Do not stop talking about it.

    Talking is part of sex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    I was referring to saliva/blood spot testing. Many states allow pts to self order labs, so compounding pharmacies often sell the kits. Of course these are not as elaborate as the testing many on this board do, but it is a start. I know there is some argument with this type of testing, but I have found it very useful.
    Depending on what the pt will pay for, I want testosterone, estradiol, dhea-s, and cortisol (x4 samples throughout day), progesterone (at least in women), and SHGB (esp men), PSA in men.
    Mark,
    What is YOUR opinion of saliva and bloodspot testing as far as accuracy.

    One sure can't beat the prices

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    i dont plan to stop talking about our sex life, but if it gets to this point again, i really will consider divorce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Mark,
    What is YOUR opinion of saliva and bloodspot testing as far as accuracy.

    One sure can't beat the prices
    I know Dr. John and some others disagree, but I have had very good success using blood spot/saliva testing. It seems to be accurrate according to some studies I have seen comparing them with other testing methods at the same time (admittedly this was done by ZRT labs who sells the testing). It has also almost always corresponded with the symptoms a pt is having. It gets a bit more tricky after HRT is started though, especially with saliva testing. I use primarily troches or topicals with my pts (mostly women), and finding the right timing to take the sample can be difficult with troches. One of the limitations Dr. John talks about is with topical therapy the saliva results can be all over the map, and that can be true (don't have a good explanation here that is easy to explain). I have been using blood spot more recently and it seems to be working out well (including on myself after starting my T therapy) with fewer limitations on timing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ms84 View Post
    i dont plan to stop talking about our sex life, but if it gets to this point again, i really will consider divorce.
    Thats not a good idea. What if you had a low libido? Would you want your wife to do that to you? Marriage can't be based of sex alone. What if she was medically unable to have sex, would you divorce her then? Don't get offended by this, but maybe its you, bro. Just clean up your house before she gets home then I guarantee she will be in the mood

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    i think your way off hyde. she definatley can have sex, i do most of the housework. if her libido is effected by hormones, etc. i would understand. my reasoning has to do with her total lack of effort or consideration for me. she also wont talk to me about our sex life, and i understand that marriage is not all about sex, but when there isnt even passion, it sucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ms84 View Post
    i think your way off hyde. she definatley can have sex, i do most of the housework. if her libido is effected by hormones, etc. i would understand. my reasoning has to do with her total lack of effort or consideration for me. she also wont talk to me about our sex life, and i understand that marriage is not all about sex, but when there isnt even passion, it sucks.
    How long have you been married?
    Children?
    Was she like that before you got married?

    Mine changed after first child was born, (33 years ago).

    If someone can figure out the lack of effort part on topic of sex while being able to muster passion on many other topics, I am all ears.

    Mine at least brings in her (unwilling) body to do the duty.
    -----------------------
    If you do not have children, I would say run.
    OTOH, if she is dutiful about sex and acceptable with the rest of life, you may want to suck it up, like I did.
    The next one may also be good for one or two years and then same story.
    -----------------------

    For me the most puzzling part is unwillingness of taking care of health while at the same time being passionate about nice clothing and keeping proper weight. Just weigh, but eating junk.

    As I am learning about hormones, I am starting to think that all mine is missing is couple grams of proper cream every day.
    The thing is, she is unwilling to try.
    As all know that it is long road of trial and error, but often succesful and worth the effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ms84 View Post
    i think your way off hyde. she definatley can have sex, i do most of the housework. if her libido is effected by hormones, etc. i would understand. my reasoning has to do with her total lack of effort or consideration for me. she also wont talk to me about our sex life, and i understand that marriage is not all about sex, but when there isnt even passion, it sucks.
    Has your wife ever been on any type of birth control?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    I know Dr. John and some others disagree, but I have had very good success using blood spot/saliva testing. It seems to be accurrate according to some studies I have seen comparing them with other testing methods at the same time (admittedly this was done by ZRT labs who sells the testing). It has also almost always corresponded with the symptoms a pt is having. It gets a bit more tricky after HRT is started though, especially with saliva testing. I use primarily troches or topicals with my pts (mostly women), and finding the right timing to take the sample can be difficult with troches. One of the limitations Dr. John talks about is with topical therapy the saliva results can be all over the map, and that can be true (don't have a good explanation here that is easy to explain). I have been using blood spot more recently and it seems to be working out well (including on myself after starting my T therapy) with fewer limitations on timing.
    RHPMark,
    I was thinking the EXACT same thing about bloodspot testing.....I just can't see how there would be much of a difference(if any) in bloodspot versus actual blood draw.

    I am of the opinion that urines can't be beat(for what they test) but I never belived any of the criticism against bloodspots.

    I think it might have more to do with the fact that doctors don't like patients doing any self work.

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    key word
    steroidogenic pathway
    ============================== ===================
    http://ssl.adhost.com/yourmenopauset...nal_search.cfm
    Find a Healthcare Professional
    who is Menopause TypeŽ Certified
    Order Menopause TypeŽ Test & Wellness Report
    ============================== ================
    For New Jersey
    Results of Find a Healthcare Professional
    who is Menopause TypeŽ Certified
    Order Menopause TypeŽ Test & Wellness Reports This is the list of healthcare professionals that have completed the Management of Menopause TypeŽ Program and are active Menopause TypeŽ Certified members in your area. They may also provide you with Menopause TypeŽ Approved Formulations, and the Menopause TypeŽ Test & Wellness Report.



    Results of Search:
    Amjad Abukwaik, R.Ph.
    1029 Main St
    Paterson, NJ 07503
    Phone: 973-345-4242
    Web: http://www.sheefa.com
    Services: Menopause TypeŽ Approved formulations, Order the Menopause TypeŽ Test and Wellness Report, Registered Pharmacist, Hormonal Therapy

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Healer Within, Inc.
    Arlene J. Reardon
    2101 Park Place
    Springfield , NJ 07081
    Phone: 908-265-2908
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    Services: Health Coach, Touch For Health IV Certification, Menopause TypeŽ Approved Formulations, Order the Menopause TypeŽ Test and Wellness Report.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Bunn Compounding & Nutrition Center
    Allen Bunn
    211 W. Millstream Rd.
    Creamridge, NJ 08514
    Phone: 609-758-4726
    Fax: 609-758-6123
    Services: Menopause TypeŽ Approved formulations, Order the Menopause TypeŽ Test and Wellness Report.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Holistic Naturopathic Center
    Glenn B. Gero , ND, RNC, MH, CES,CLC
    256 Colfax Avenue
    Clifton, NJ 07013-1702
    Phone: 973-471-5758
    Fax: 973-471-1776
    Email: njnaturaldoc@aol.com
    Web: http://www.holisticnaturopath.com
    Services: Menopause TypeŽ Approved formulations, Order the Menopause TypeŽ Test and Wellness Report, Board Certified Naturopath, Registered Nutritionist, Master Herbalist, Medical Exercise Specialist, Natural Hormone Consultant & Certified Lifestyle Counselor

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Medicine Shoppe Compounding Pharmacy
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    Services: Menopause TypeŽ Approved formulations, Order the Menopause TypeŽ Test and Wellness Report., Menopause TypeŽ Approved formulations, Compounding of Natural Hormones, Durable Medical Equipment

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Natural Harmony LLC
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Optimal Wellness
    Robert Lukasik, DCN, FACACN, Clinical Nutritionist
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Services: Menopause TypeŽ Approved formulations, Order the Menopause TypeŽ Test and Wellness Report.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Wonder if this questionare could make resonable substitution for blood/hormone testing?

    Your Menopause Type - Questionnaire

    http://www.yourmenopausetype.com/MTQ.pdf
    -----------------------------------------------------
    As noted, it is also important to evaluate the objective signs of menopause. Objective signs can be observed by a healthcare professional directly or with the use of medical instruments or tests. Rashes, lumps, X-ray reports, bone density studies, EKG readouts, hormone levels and other lab tests are examples of objective signs.

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    she has been on birth control, but has off for over a year. i read how bc can screw a girls libido for life, etc. we have no children yet. and like you said jansz, she unwilling does it, but with all the complaining, being told to hurry up, i can barely get a rock solid bone unless i do it myself.

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    JanSz, You can use questions like those to successfully treat/diagnose pts; I did for years, but the labs sure help.

    ms84- I don't know you and I'm not judging, but keep in mind 90% or more of a woman's libido is from the neck up. I think the thing that gets my wife the hottest is me doing the dishes (and at least acting like I don't hope for anything in return

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    JanSz, You can use questions like those to successfully treat/diagnose pts; I did for years, but the labs sure help.

    ms84- I don't know you and I'm not judging, but keep in mind 90% or more of a woman's libido is from the neck up. I think the thing that gets my wife the hottest is me doing the dishes (and at least acting like I don't hope for anything in return
    Recently, for very short time, I was playng games with my wife (with out her knowledge) and was able to tune in with her mind. Indeed worked like a charm.
    I cannot do this on long term basis, exhausting.
    I felt like a puppet.

    Have a friend, hi is able to do it on permanent basis, he reaps the rewards, 8 children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ms84 View Post
    she has been on birth control, but has off for over a year. .
    That sucks.

    The invention of the birth control has probably been one of the worst things to ever happen to womens health in the last 50 years.

    It basically destroys testosterone and cranks up SHBG levels 10 times higher than normal. I akin it to female castration.

    This is permanent. Do not fuk with mother nature, we will lose every time.

    Check out this article.
    http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1621518

    "The pill decreases ovarian production of Testosterone, along with increasing levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) production by the liver up to 10-fold. In turn, the SHBG binds up most remaining Testosterone, thereby killing sex drive, muting or nullifying orgasms, and making intercourse all but impossible without petroleum jelly."

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    , but keep in mind 90% or more of a woman's libido is from the neck up. I
    Mark,

    I do not believe this is true. This train of thought is no different than when a guy goes into a Dr office complaining of all the low T symptoms that we are familiar with, and told it is all in his head.

    I am from the school of thought that men and women are very similar, especially from a hormonal standpoint.

    They need/respond/act/feel/behave/look/ in according to testosterone levels, just like we are.

    There is alot of scientific proof behind this.

    Women are suffering from low T just as men are

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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Mark,

    I do not believe this is true. This train of thought is no different than when a guy goes into a Dr office complaining of all the low T symptoms that we are familiar with, and told it is all in his head.

    I am from the school of thought that men and women are very similar, especially from a hormonal standpoint.

    They need/respond/act/feel/behave/look/ in according to testosterone levels, just like we are.

    There is alot of scientific proof behind this.

    Women are suffering from low T just as men are
    Without a doubt many are low in T which can absolutely crash their libido in addtion to problems with vaginal dryness/pain and that's not even considering more profound problems caused by low E. But women are so much more complicated in this area than men. There is an oxytocin cascade of events that simply won't happen if things aren't right. Beyond that, they simply have to be more "into it" mentally than we do to be in the mood, much less enjoy it. I can't speak for all men, but I don't know many who can get/keep and erection but don't have an orgasm because they just couldn't get into it that night. It's not at all normal for a woman to have no sex drive, but where in men T is the first place I would look in women it's probably 2 or 3 after how they feel about their husband and how much stress and/or depression they are going through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    Without a doubt many are low in T which can absolutely crash their libido in addtion to problems with vaginal dryness/pain and that's not even considering more profound problems caused by low E. But women are so much more complicated in this area than men. There is an oxytocin cascade of events that simply won't happen if things aren't right. Beyond that, they simply have to be more "into it" mentally than we do to be in the mood, much less enjoy it. I can't speak for all men, but I don't know many who can get/keep and erection but don't have an orgasm because they just couldn't get into it that night. It's not at all normal for a woman to have no sex drive, but where in men T is the first place I would look in women it's probably 2 or 3 after how they feel about their husband and how much stress and/or depression they are going through.
    Men won't feel "into it" if they are low on Testosterone. Men also have a cascade of events that includes Oxytocin. Some people buy Oxytocin as a research chem and it is said to provide instant erections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    But women are so much more complicated in this area than men. .
    Maybe yes, maybe no.....

    There are quite a few ladies doing well on transdermal preg + trandermal Dhea, very low dose.....

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    Anyone ever heard of this place? My sister in law in florida is looking for a good doctor and was asking about them.

    http://www.bodylogicmd.com/

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