An update from me, plus some questions.

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    An update from me, plus some questions.


    I've been on 1 tube of 1% Testim per day for 13 days now. The first 6 or 7 days were pretty uneventful, although I think my mood was slightly elevated from before. The last week has been horrible though. Lethargy is way up, soreness is way up, and I just have an overall fatigued tired feeling all the time.

    I also noticed something weird with the gel that started happening 3 days ago. When I shower before bed at night (12 hrs after application of gel) there is a film-like substance over the area of application, almost like the gel is not absorbing and it's just sitting in the top layer of my skin all day and then being washed off at night. I also noticed that when I workout (4 hrs after application), my shirt is soaked on the areas of application and I never used to sweat that much before. I wonder if the gel is not absorbing? I certainly feel like my T has dropped even lower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I've been on 1 tube of 1% Testim per day for 13 days now. The first 6 or 7 days were pretty uneventful, although I think my mood was slightly elevated from before. The last week has been horrible though. Lethargy is way up, soreness is way up, and I just have an overall fatigued tired feeling all the time.

    I also noticed something weird with the gel that started happening 3 days ago. When I shower before bed at night (12 hrs after application of gel) there is a film-like substance over the area of application, almost like the gel is not absorbing and it's just sitting in the top layer of my skin all day and then being washed off at night. I also noticed that when I workout (4 hrs after application), my shirt is soaked on the areas of application and I never used to sweat that much before. I wonder if the gel is not absorbing? I certainly feel like my T has dropped even lower.
    When you are on a gel you should blood test at the end of two weeks.
    You are on day 13.
    I suggest you do blood test asap.
    Use part of my list post #44

    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    Ask your doc to write this straight on script paper and not use Quest's forms.
    At minimum the items designated (LC/MS/MS)

    40 T3 Free
    43 T4,Free
    54 DHEA sulfate
    55 Prolactin
    58 Progesterone, LC/MS/MS
    59 Pregnenolone
    60 Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
    63 Estrogens, Fractionated, LC/MS/MS (36742X)
    67 Estrogen, Total, Serum (439X)
    68 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
    74 Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)

    After you get results, proceed accordingly.
    If low on T, do not popo, ask for DepoT shots and HCG and arimidex (so you can have it just in case)
    When starting T shots, do not start on "standard" 100mg/week weekly shots.
    Calculate your dose per your SHBG level.
    Also if your SHBG is around 20-22 or lower do frequent injections, E3D or even E2D if SHBG is real low.
    Use 31ga needles subq shots for T&hcg so you avoid pain and other lasting discomforts related to deep IM shots.

    You probably will need script for compounded pregnenolone cream, possibly also Armour.
    -----------------------------------------------------
    If you have patience experiment with different kind of transdermals to further sicientific discoveries.
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    After one month you will know if gels are good for you. If you are hypothyroid or suspect thyroid problems then after 1 month and no increase from gels goto depot shots. Do not wait around. IF thyroid is the problem correcting thyroid will increase absorption of the gel. TEst accordingly
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    After one month you will know if gels are good for you. If you are hypothyroid or suspect thyroid problems then after 1 month and no increase from gels goto depot shots. Do not wait around. IF thyroid is the problem correcting thyroid will increase absorption of the gel. TEst accordingly
    I'm not gonna wait around if my doctor will allow me to switch, I'm gonna ask to switch this week. It's not just that I dont feel better on the gel, it's because it's a pain in the ass to use. It smells even though they claim it is odorless. My friends have asked me why I smell weird. Plus, the other people in my family are concerned about transfer to them. I told them not to worry, but I dont like having it on my mind that my family is worrying about touching the doorknob after me . I just hope the doc isnt stuck on gels and opposed to injections . We'll see I guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I'm not gonna wait around if my doctor will allow me to switch, I'm gonna ask to switch this week. It's not just that I dont feel better on the gel, it's because it's a pain in the ass to use. It smells even though they claim it is odorless. My friends have asked me why I smell weird. Plus, the other people in my family are concerned about transfer to them. I told them not to worry, but I dont like having it on my mind that my family is worrying about touching the doorknob after me . I just hope the doc isnt stuck on gels and opposed to injections . We'll see I guess.
    Where are you located at?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Where are you located at?
    Atlanta, Georgia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Where are you located at?
    Got any suggestions based on my location HAN?

    It might not matter, I might just give up and see Dr. John. I'm still gonna give my regular doc a few months before I give up on him, but today when I went for my glucose tolerance test I asked him to recheck my T levels since it's been 2 weeks on the gel. He said it takes 6 weeks so checking now would do no good. I also told him about the filmy **** that is on me when I shower and sweat and he said I shouldnt be doing any of that within 4 hrs of application! On Testim's freakin patient info slip inside the box it says you can do all that within 2 hrs....Dr. John says it's ok within 1 hour. Why so many differing opinions? 4 hours is ridiculous.

    So I'll be patient still. Let him wait for the recheck, fine. But if my levels still suck on recheck and his solution is to deny my injections and make me apply even more of that smelly pain-in-the-ass gel, I guess the cost of Dr. John would be worth it to not play these games anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Got any suggestions based on my location HAN?

    It might not matter, I might just give up and see Dr. John. I'm still gonna give my regular doc a few months before I give up on him, but today when I went for my glucose tolerance test I asked him to recheck my T levels since it's been 2 weeks on the gel. He said it takes 6 weeks so checking now would do no good. I also told him about the filmy **** that is on me when I shower and sweat and he said I shouldnt be doing any of that within 4 hrs of application! On Testim's freakin patient info slip inside the box it says you can do all that within 2 hrs....Dr. John says it's ok within 1 hour. Why so many differing opinions? 4 hours is ridiculous.

    So I'll be patient still. Let him wait for the recheck, fine. But if my levels still suck on recheck and his solution is to deny my injections and make me apply even more of that smelly pain-in-the-ass gel, I guess the cost of Dr. John would be worth it to not play these games anymore.
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
    bottom of post #56
    you will find
    The World Health Network - Anti-Aging and Longevity
    look under directory
    under Atlanta, Georgia, USA
    within 50 miles radius you get
    list of doctors I post below.
    When you click on each name you get phone and some additional info
    Anti-Aging Directory






    Search in Category: All CategoriesAnti-Aging Health ProfessionalsAnti-Aging Clinics and Medical SpasAnti-Aging Products and Services-- Associations-- Compounding Pharmacies-- Dermatology-- Education-- Fitness / Sports-- Instruments / Tools / Hardware-- Insurance / Finance-- Laboratory Services-- Mesotherapy-- Pharmaceuticals / Drugs-- Resource Sites-- Software-- Spa Products-- Vitamin / Nutrition
    Name:
    City:
    State: -- Select State --AlabamaAlaskaArizonaArkansasCa liforniaColoradoConnecticutD.C .DelawareFloridaGeorgiaHawaiiI dahoIllinoisIndianaIowaKansasK entuckyLouisianaMaineMarylandM assachusettsMichiganMinnesotaM ississippiMissouriMontanaNebra skaNevadaNew HampshireNew JerseyNew MexicoNew YorkNorth CarolinaNorth DakotaOhioOklahomaOregonPennsy lvaniaRhode IslandSouth CarolinaSouth DakotaTennesseeTexasUtahVermon tVirginiaWashingtonWest VirginiaWisconsinWyomingAlbert aBritish ColumbiaLabradorManitobaNew BrunswickNewfoundlandNorthwest TerritoriesNova ScotiaNunautOntarioPrince Edward IslandQuebecSaskatchewanYukon
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Atlanta, Georgia.
    Me too, if you find somebody good local (or somebody willing to work with Dr John) let me know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Got any suggestions based on my location HAN?

    It might not matter, I might just give up and see Dr. John. I'm still gonna give my regular doc a few months before I give up on him, but today when I went for my glucose tolerance test I asked him to recheck my T levels since it's been 2 weeks on the gel. He said it takes 6 weeks so checking now would do no good. I also told him about the filmy **** that is on me when I shower and sweat and he said I shouldnt be doing any of that within 4 hrs of application! On Testim's freakin patient info slip inside the box it says you can do all that within 2 hrs....Dr. John says it's ok within 1 hour. Why so many differing opinions? 4 hours is ridiculous.

    So I'll be patient still. Let him wait for the recheck, fine. But if my levels still suck on recheck and his solution is to deny my injections and make me apply even more of that smelly pain-in-the-ass gel, I guess the cost of Dr. John would be worth it to not play these games anymore.

    From guys that I know who have used testim its seems to be not as effective as androgel. I have heard this from numerious people. Why can't you dr call in a compunded cream for you and save you and your insurance major bucks and the embarassment of smelling like a walking phamaacy. CF10 call a local compunding pharamcy and see where most of there testosterone creams and gels are prescribe from and then go from there..Usually they have in database names of drs that prescribes from and then they can refer you..

    Welcome to Pavilion Compounding Pharmacy's Website
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    From guys that I know who have used testim its seems to be not as effective as androgel. I have heard this from numerious people. Why can't you dr call in a compunded cream for you and save you and your insurance major bucks and the embarassment of smelling like a walking phamaacy. CF10 call a local compunding pharamcy and see where most of there testosterone creams and gels are prescribe from and then go from there..Usually they have in database names of drs that prescribes from and then they can refer you..

    Welcome to Pavilion Compounding Pharmacy's Website
    Thanks, and thanks to you too JanSz for that link. And Jeff if I find something locally I will tell you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Thanks, and thanks to you too JanSz for that link. And Jeff if I find something locally I will tell you.
    Get the compounded cream, 200mg/ml.

    Your looking at applying a whole lot less cream.

    Give it a while.

    Remember you need hcG and Preg cream soon.

    I do not understand why alot even try and deal with Docs.

    I don't care where I lived in the US I would make the drive to Lansing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Get the compounded cream, 200mg/ml.

    Your looking at applying a whole lot less cream.

    Give it a while.

    Remember you need hcG and Preg cream soon.

    I do not understand why alot even try and deal with Docs.

    I don't care where I lived in the US I would make the drive to Lansing.
    This is new one, 200mg/ml------------20%


    Last I was using 100mg/1gram-------10%
    previously Androgel ---------------1%

    dr John uses three kinds

    1%
    5%
    10%

    http://www.allthingsmale.com/pricelist.html

    who is recomending 20%, who is making it ?
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    JansZ,
    Mis type.

    I ment the 10% strength.

    You have used both.

    How much less liquid was the compounded cream.
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    JansZ,
    Mis type.

    I ment the 10% strength.

    You have used both.

    How much less liquid was the compounded cream.
    I used 2 packs of Androgel, 1grams.
    That is a lot of gel, covered both sides from top down to tighs, but quick, 2 minutes or so ready to go.
    TT=932(241-827)
    DHT=226(30-85)
    DHT=20 or 29 when on Avodart

    I used 1gram of crem, 100mg/1gram, because by my calculation it contained the same amount of testosterone as previusly on Androgel.

    TT=456(250-1100)
    DHT=143(25-75)

    When I got this blood test I changed to 2grams of T cream, close to half hour drying time with no clothes.
    Latter I decided on Depo-Testosterone
    I calculated required (preliminary) dose based on my SHBG level and the charts on my thread.
    Doing this since 6/19/06

    Newer felt better since I started on testosterone supplementation about Jan 2003.

    Today is day #64, wonder if that is some kind of rebound or (hopefully) steady state getting possibly better.
    If only the girl was cooperating it would be cloose to real good.

    Will get my blood test soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I used 2 packs of Androgel, 1grams.
    That is a lot of gel, covered both sides from top down to tighs, but quick, 2 minutes or so ready to go.
    TT=932(241-827)
    DHT=226(30-85)
    DHT=20 or 29 when on Avodart

    I used 1gram of crem, 100mg/1gram, because by my calculation it contained the same amount of testosterone as previusly on Androgel.

    TT=456(250-1100)
    DHT=143(25-75)

    When I got this blood test I changed to 2grams of T cream, close to half hour drying time with no clothes.
    Latter I decided on Depo-Testosterone
    I calculated required (preliminary) dose based on my SHBG level and the charts on my thread.
    Doing this since 6/19/06

    Newer felt better since I started on testosterone supplementation about Jan 2003.

    Today is day #64, wonder if that is some kind of rebound or (hopefully) steady state getting possibly better.
    If only the girl was cooperating it would be cloose to real good.

    Will get my blood test soon.
    You mean taking the girl for a test drive LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Get the compounded cream, 200mg/ml.

    Your looking at applying a whole lot less cream.

    Give it a while.

    Remember you need hcG and Preg cream soon.

    I do not understand why alot even try and deal with Docs.

    I don't care where I lived in the US I would make the drive to Lansing.

    I would have made the trip long ago trust me, but there is a problem. I can afford the trip and the fees Dr. John charges but I cannot afford the labs and drugs needed for the TRT process. Thats why I am hoping to get through to my PCP, because insurance will cover it.

    Also, I know that you advocate gel or cream HAN but the amount of cream is the least of my worries with it. I do not like the fact that my family is scared to touch what I touch. I also do not like waiting to sweat, because often times I am working outdoors first thing in the AM and there is no time to let it dry. Also, I do seem to have an absorbtion problem even though my doc said the filmy residue was normal.

    Finally, I want to ask, what is the reason for using pregnenolone cream? I have a pretty decent knowledge of test, E2, thyroid and the drugs needed like T, A-dex (maybe), Armour (or synthroid, cytomel, etc), and HCG....but I havent gotten into pregnenolone much. Little help to get me started?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I would have made the trip long ago trust me, but there is a problem. I can afford the trip and the fees Dr. John charges but I cannot afford the labs and drugs needed for the TRT process. Thats why I am hoping to get through to my PCP, because insurance will cover it.

    Also, I know that you advocate gel or cream HAN but the amount of cream is the least of my worries with it. I do not like the fact that my family is scared to touch what I touch. I also do not like waiting to sweat, because often times I am working outdoors first thing in the AM and there is no time to let it dry. Also, I do seem to have an absorbtion problem even though my doc said the filmy residue was normal.

    Finally, I want to ask, what is the reason for using pregnenolone cream? I have a pretty decent knowledge of test, E2, thyroid and the drugs needed like T, A-dex (maybe), Armour (or synthroid, cytomel, etc), and HCG....but I havent gotten into pregnenolone much. Little help to get me started?
    AS plymouth said..
    The reason we add Preg/Dhea is because any time you start adding in exogenous T your body will cease to make other androgenic hormones. By adding in Preg, which is the mother hormone of all others, you replenish what your body has stopped making becuase of being on HRT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I would have made the trip long ago trust me, but there is a problem. I can afford the trip and the fees Dr. John charges but I cannot afford the labs and drugs needed for the TRT process. Thats why I am hoping to get through to my PCP, because insurance will cover it.

    Also, I know that you advocate gel or cream HAN but the amount of cream is the least of my worries with it. I do not like the fact that my family is scared to touch what I touch. I also do not like waiting to sweat, because often times I am working outdoors first thing in the AM and there is no time to let it dry. Also, I do seem to have an absorbtion problem even though my doc said the filmy residue was normal.

    Finally, I want to ask, what is the reason for using pregnenolone cream? I have a pretty decent knowledge of test, E2, thyroid and the drugs needed like T, A-dex (maybe), Armour (or synthroid, cytomel, etc), and HCG....but I havent gotten into pregnenolone much. Little help to get me started?
    Pregnenolone, DHEA, Chrysin if you need
    it is going to be hard not to use as a cream.
    But you can try first as pills and see how you respond.
    Testosterone, ask for Depo-T 200mg/mL
    If you short on money, you can get very inexpensive from compounding paharmacy, PM me.

    I stopped Androgel and Tcream for exactly the reasons you have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Pregnenolone, DHEA, Chrysin if you need
    it is going to be hard not to use as a cream.
    But you can try first as pills and see how you respond.
    Testosterone, ask for Depo-T 200mg/mL
    If you short on money, you can get very inexpensive from compounding paharmacy, PM me.

    I stopped Androgel and Tcream for exactly the reasons you have.
    LEF believes that adding in sesame seads with chrysin it increases oral absortion for their chrysin product.

    I believe this has some merit.

    Worth a try.
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    LEF believes that adding in sesame seads with chrysin it increases oral absortion for their chrysin product.

    I believe this has some merit.

    Worth a try.
    You were probably thinking of:
    Bioperine® piperine (from black pepper)
    as used to increase absorbtion.

    http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00615.html
    Super MiraForte with Maximum Strength Chrysin
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    The drugs for TRT are cheap, I dont even use insurance for them . (assuming you need trt ) You can still push the labs needed through your PCP to get insurance to pay for them. Exactly what I do. Think about what's most important in your life and go from there. I went to see Dr John 2 weeks ago and wish I hadn't jacked around with a local Dr who isnt really up on the stuff. I'm very happy to have made the trip! I decided my health is number one important to me and I want to be able to look back and say I went all out and saw the best. With the other Dr I'd always be looking back thinking, "Is this the right thing, do I really need TRT? Is there something else but since she doesnt have the experience she doesnt know?" I'd never feel confident and always be wondering. Dr John is really a cool guy. There's a reason guys from Australia come to see him. I was in the same mindset you are but most of what was stopping me wasnt based on fact. I love not having the burden of trying to research and figure out this stuff on my own!

    Good luck to you bro.

    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I would have made the trip long ago trust me, but there is a problem. I can afford the trip and the fees Dr. John charges but I cannot afford the labs and drugs needed for the TRT process. Thats why I am hoping to get through to my PCP, because insurance will cover it.

    Also, I know that you advocate gel or cream HAN but the amount of cream is the least of my worries with it. I do not like the fact that my family is scared to touch what I touch. I also do not like waiting to sweat, because often times I am working outdoors first thing in the AM and there is no time to let it dry. Also, I do seem to have an absorbtion problem even though my doc said the filmy residue was normal.

    Finally, I want to ask, what is the reason for using pregnenolone cream? I have a pretty decent knowledge of test, E2, thyroid and the drugs needed like T, A-dex (maybe), Armour (or synthroid, cytomel, etc), and HCG....but I havent gotten into pregnenolone much. Little help to get me started?
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    The drugs for TRT are cheap, I dont even use insurance for them . (assuming you need trt ) You can still push the labs needed through your PCP to get insurance to pay for them. Exactly what I do. Think about what's most important in your life and go from there. I went to see Dr John 2 weeks ago and wish I hadn't jacked around with a local Dr who isnt really up on the stuff. I'm very happy to have made the trip! I decided my health is number one important to me and I want to be able to look back and say I went all out and saw the best. With the other Dr I'd always be looking back thinking, "Is this the right thing, do I really need TRT? Is there something else but since she doesnt have the experience she doesnt know?" I'd never feel confident and always be wondering. Dr John is really a cool guy. There's a reason guys from Australia come to see him. I was in the same mindset you are but most of what was stopping me wasnt based on fact. I love not having the burden of trying to research and figure out this stuff on my own!

    Good luck to you bro.
    Keep on posting on your experience.
    Provide as much details as you feel comfortable.

    But you know, if you wish for others to learn anything,
    details are important.

    Wish you luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    You were probably thinking of:
    Bioperine® piperine (from black pepper)
    as used to increase absorbtion.

    http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00615.html
    Super MiraForte with Maximum Strength Chrysin
    Yes thats it.

    Its sesame seeds in resveratrol

    and bioperine piperine in chrysin
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Yes thats it.

    Its sesame seeds in resveratrol

    and bioperine piperine in chrysin
    There is another product that LEF sells, which contains Bioperine
    Super Curcumin With Bioperine, 800 Mg 60 Capsules
    Super Curcumin with Bioperine®




    For some reason I connect Resveratol to grapes.
    But here it is what i just found:
    Food to fight pain - Pain management diet for arthritis and other pain - MetabolismAdvice.com
    ---------------
    Resveratrol
    Bilberries
    Blueberries
    Cranberries
    Grapes
    Mulberries
    Peanuts
    ------------

    Omega-3
    Anchovies
    Bluefish
    Capeline
    Dogfish
    Herring
    Mackerel
    Salmon
    Sardines
    Shad
    Sturgeon
    Tuna
    Whitefish

    Brazil Nuts
    Eggs
    Flaxseed/Linseed
    Hazelnuts
    Hemp Seeds
    Pecans
    Pumpkin Seeds
    Sesame Seeds
    Spinach
    Walnuts
    -----------------------------

    Anti-Oxidants
    Asparagus
    Avocados
    Berries
    Broccoli
    Cabbage
    Cauliflower
    Grapefruit
    Kiwi Fruit
    Oranges
    Peaches
    Tomatoes
    -----------------------------

    Flavanoids List
    Apples
    Grapes
    Green Tea
    Onions
    Soy
    ============================== ===

    Had I new the that Dogfish are good for something (omega-3) I would have brought ton of them when I was Giant Tuna fishing, during my fishing days.

    Those sons of dogfish eate my bait and I could not get any tunas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Those sons of dogfish eate my bait and I could not get any tunas.
    Hence the name Dog Fish
  

  
 

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