Increase in T doc says no treatment. - AnabolicMinds.com

Increase in T doc says no treatment.

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    Increase in T doc says no treatment.


    Im 31 yrs old and i have been waiting for a month to go to a clinic who specializes in fertility and sex hormones, i got a referal from my last endo. Been exp low T issues for 18 month or so since quitting propecia.

    Instead of a confirmation of appointment i get a notice saying my T has gone from 12 to 14 nmol/L and as such is not a cause for concearn. scale beeing 10-30.

    My problem was only partly low TT but prolly more so an elevated shbg at 45 out of 10-50 at last check. This so called specialst says Bio T measurements are not an accurate way of testing and as such he cannot treat me on my clinical low Bio T of 5 out of 6.5-16.

    So my options now are slim. go back to last doc and get him to subscribe Testogel at possibly a larger dose. I dont know if this makes sence considering i have gyno worries even on 50 mg / day. My E2 tested low at 12 american values on gel so dont know whats up wif that. So what else could be at play? i cant test for progesteron, total Es or estrone with this doc.. Could e2 spike at much larger than 12 even if thats what bw said only 3 hours or so after application of gel? my TT on gel also at 3 hours after application stayed at pretreatment values of 12 nmol/L.

    If TT dont go up on Tgel 3 hours after application, would that be an indiation of having even lower T levels than b4 treatment during the later part of day? If this happends could this be a likely cause for gyno, rather than elevated Es themselves?

    I dont know what to think now, i have 3 docs saying i could try treatment cause im low on bio T, and 2 docs saying im fine and the bio T test is not accurate. And the docs willing to treat me have no clue how to counter possible sideeffects from supplemented T.

    I know u dont have the awnsers, just want some feedback on where u think i should go from here.

    Anyone having good response with something like supermiraforte in regards to Bio T levels?

    thx in advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nallepuh View Post
    Im 31 yrs old and i have been waiting for a month to go to a clinic who specializes in fertility and sex hormones, i got a referal from my last endo. Been exp low T issues for 18 month or so since quitting propecia.

    Instead of a confirmation of appointment i get a notice saying my T has gone from 12 to 14 nmol/L and as such is not a cause for concearn. scale beeing 10-30.

    My problem was only partly low TT but prolly more so an elevated shbg at 45 out of 10-50 at last check. This so called specialst says Bio T measurements are not an accurate way of testing and as such he cannot treat me on my clinical low Bio T of 5 out of 6.5-16.

    So my options now are slim. go back to last doc and get him to subscribe Testogel at possibly a larger dose. I dont know if this makes sence considering i have gyno worries even on 50 mg / day. My E2 tested low at 12 american values on gel so dont know whats up wif that. So what else could be at play? i cant test for progesteron, total Es or estrone with this doc.. Could e2 spike at much larger than 12 even if thats what bw said only 3 hours or so after application of gel? my TT on gel also at 3 hours after application stayed at pretreatment values of 12 nmol/L.

    If TT dont go up on Tgel 3 hours after application, would that be an indiation of having even lower T levels than b4 treatment during the later part of day? If this happends could this be a likely cause for gyno, rather than elevated Es themselves?

    I dont know what to think now, i have 3 docs saying i could try treatment cause im low on bio T, and 2 docs saying im fine and the bio T test is not accurate. And the docs willing to treat me have no clue how to counter possible sideeffects from supplemented T.
    I know u dont have the awnsers, just want some feedback on where u think i should go from here.

    Anyone having good response with something like supermiraforte in regards to Bio T levels?

    thx in advance.
    I thought you are reading this board, answers are right here.
    All you have to do is provide consistently blood tests that are required and be able to get scripts for few medications.

    You may already know, I am not a proponent of transdermals, too many uncertainties.
    Use apropriate amount of injected testosterone.
    Check all estrogens then adjust all of them, it is not only E2.
    That should do best possible for your gyno.
    ============================== ======
    In my opinion you are set better than most of people.

    You have a doctor who is willing to treat you.
    Yes, he does not have a clue. Do you realy care about it?
    (since he is your best option).
    I have situation resembling yours, it is best, you direct your own treatment.

    I also note that you are able to get SuperMiraforte (from LEF) that tells me you are able to get other LEF products (that are of superior quality).

    Something is fishy with your very low E2 and gyno.
    Low E2 and gyno usually do not go together.
    There is other that E2 reason for gyno, it was written on this board within last two months, somebody please help.
    Other than that repeat e2 test.
    -------------------------------------------------
    Do not pay much attention to claims of tests inacuracies,
    unless well documented.

    Often it is discussion between purists, it does not make a difference for practical applications.
    AFAIK, only FreeT when tested using run of the mill RIA test kits are worthless. For other tests I have not seen any back-up to those claims.
    --------------------------------------------------
    You have to deal with your hormones one at the time.
    With your current low T and E2 and high SHBG
    you may get some increase of E2 if you "overdose" on testosterone, not much, 10%.
    Make sure you do not kill the E2 with Arimidex, that you do not need.
    When you use HCG that supposedly may also help your low E2.
    Also over shooting T should lower your SHBG

    SHBG=45
    to get desired FreeT~250
    requires
    TotalT~1200 add 10%, 1300

    per post #40
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    you need 195mg/week
    it is a lot of volume, play safe use E3D schedule
    also on the same schedule use use 500iu hcg

    your Depo-Testosterone or testosterone enathate should be 200mg/mL
    accelerate your dose to get levels up quicker.

    195mg/week=195/7*3/200=0.42cc=42units on insuline syringe

    every day you have injection use
    T=42unit
    HCG=500iu
    using study post#22
    your accelerated schedule is

    Day1-T=2.5 doses, hcg=1dose
    Day-2-T=1dose,
    Day-3-nothing
    Day-4-T=1dose, hcg=1dose
    Day-4-nothing
    Day-5-nothing
    Day-6-T=1dose, hcg=1dose
    continue your E3D schedule

    use this needle for subq T&hcg shots
    BD Ultrafine U-100 Insulin Syringe 30 Gauge 1/2cc 1/2Inch 100/Box Price: $23.50
    BD Ultrafine U-100 Insulin Syringe 30 Gauge 1/2cc 1/2Inch 100/Box
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Direct me to your lattest blood tests.
    Most everybody benefit from prescription compounded pregnenolone cream
    use 1gram/day, 100mg/mL

    To lower your SHBG use as directed
    Super Miraforte With Max Strength Chrysin, 120 Caps
    Advanced Natural Prostate Formula With 5-Loxin, 60 Softgels


    Your other than E2 estrogens are questionable, either test them or just use
    4 pills of this
    Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
    and 2 pills of
    Tmg (Trimethylglycine), 500 Mg 180 Tablets
    and 2 pills of this for good measure
    Resveratrol Caps, 100 Mg 60 Vegetarian Capsules

    Do the above for 2-3 months then retest.
    You may want to test your estrogens sooner.

    .
  3. New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I thought you are reading this board, answers are right here.
    All you have to do is provide consistently blood tests that are required and be able to get scripts for few medications.

    You may already know, I am not a proponent of transdermals, too many uncertainties.
    Use apropriate amount of injected testosterone.
    Check all estrogens then adjust all of them, it is not only E2.
    That should do best possible for your gyno.
    ============================== ======
    In my opinion you are set better than most of people.

    You have a doctor who is willing to treat you.
    Yes, he does not have a clue. Do you realy care about it?
    (since he is your best option).
    I have situation resembling yours, it is best, you direct your own treatment.

    I also note that you are able to get SuperMiraforte (from LEF) that tells me you are able to get other LEF products (that are of superior quality).

    Something is fishy with your very low E2 and gyno.
    Low E2 and gyno usually do not go together.
    There is other that E2 reason for gyno, it was written on this board within last two months, somebody please help.
    Other than that repeat e2 test.
    -------------------------------------------------
    Do not pay much attention to claims of tests inacuracies,
    unless well documented.

    Often it is discussion between purists, it does not make a difference for practical applications.
    AFAIK, only FreeT when tested using run of the mill RIA test kits are worthless. For other tests I have not seen any back-up to those claims.
    --------------------------------------------------
    You have to deal with your hormones one at the time.
    With your current low T and E2 and high SHBG
    you may get some increase of E2 if you "overdose" on testosterone, not much, 10%.
    Make sure you do not kill the E2 with Arimidex, that you do not need.
    When you use HCG that supposedly may also help your low E2.
    Also over shooting T should lower your SHBG

    SHBG=45
    to get desired FreeT~250
    requires
    TotalT~1200 add 10%, 1300

    per post #40
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    you need 195mg/week
    it is a lot of volume, play safe use E3D schedule
    also on the same schedule use use 500iu hcg

    your Depo-Testosterone or testosterone enathate should be 200mg/mL
    accelerate your dose to get levels up quicker.

    195mg/week=195/7*3/200=0.42cc=42units on insuline syringe

    every day you have injection use
    T=42unit
    HCG=500iu
    using study post#22
    your accelerated schedule is

    Day1-T=2.5 doses, hcg=1dose
    Day-2-T=1dose,
    Day-3-nothing
    Day-4-T=1dose, hcg=1dose
    Day-4-nothing
    Day-5-nothing
    Day-6-T=1dose, hcg=1dose
    continue your E3D schedule

    use this needle for subq T&hcg shots
    BD Ultrafine U-100 Insulin Syringe 30 Gauge 1/2cc 1/2Inch 100/Box Price: $23.50
    BD Ultrafine U-100 Insulin Syringe 30 Gauge 1/2cc 1/2Inch 100/Box
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Direct me to your lattest blood tests.
    Most everybody benefit from prescription compounded pregnenolone cream
    use 1gram/day, 100mg/mL

    To lower your SHBG use as directed
    Super Miraforte With Max Strength Chrysin, 120 Caps
    Advanced Natural Prostate Formula With 5-Loxin, 60 Softgels


    Your other than E2 estrogens are questionable, either test them or just use
    4 pills of this
    Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
    and 2 pills of
    Tmg (Trimethylglycine), 500 Mg 180 Tablets
    and 2 pills of this for good measure
    Resveratrol Caps, 100 Mg 60 Vegetarian Capsules

    Do the above for 2-3 months then retest.
    You may want to test your estrogens sooner.

    .

    Yes i do read the board. I dont agree, the awnsers are not right here. I appreciate yr trying to help out alot, but i was doing well on 50mg/day TDs with TT at 12 nmol/L to me this is an indication that maybe my problem isent low T initself maybe its too little DHT considering im a former propecia user or similar metabolite issues.

    And when doing okay on TT about 450 it makes no sence injecting mega shots of T. In my mind the least amount i need to feel well again is the best solution. Not aiming for TT 1300 and needing to deal with high Es etc considering i got issues even with low Es. I will only that this option if all else fails. Im only 31 yrs old and i have a long life ahead of me, i messed up b4 using propecia i wont mess up again and pay yet another high price.

    However the products u listed are something i will try out. I also mailed my old doc telling him i was rejected at specialists and asking if he would take me on again trying low dose anti E together with 75 mg Tgel instead of 50. Im hoping he says yes or atleast is open for a discussion.

    Thx again.
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by nallepuh View Post
    Yes i do read the board. I dont agree, the awnsers are not right here. I appreciate yr trying to help out alot, but i was doing well on 50mg/day TDs with TT at 12 nmol/L to me this is an indication that maybe my problem isent low T initself maybe its too little DHT considering im a former propecia user or similar metabolite issues.

    And when doing okay on TT about 450 it makes no sence injecting mega shots of T. In my mind the least amount i need to feel well again is the best solution. Not aiming for TT 1300 and needing to deal with high Es etc considering i got issues even with low Es. I will only that this option if all else fails. Im only 31 yrs old and i have a long life ahead of me, i messed up b4 using propecia i wont mess up again and pay yet another high price.

    However the products u listed are something i will try out. I also mailed my old doc telling him i was rejected at specialists and asking if he would take me on again trying low dose anti E together with 75 mg Tgel instead of 50. Im hoping he says yes or atleast is open for a discussion.

    Thx again.
    In my mind it was not important that you had few good days while having low T, (TT at 12 nmol/L). Unles it was good enough that you stop there and go thru life in this state.

    The idea of HRT is to keep your hormone levels at the top range of healthy young people.

    Your SHBG is high, your E2 is low.
    That is fortunate element in bad situation.
    For your SHBG level you need TT~1200
    that amount of T should not change (much) your estrogens.
    To increase your E2 and lower your SHBG I suggested the additional raise for TT.
    Remember, there is periodic blood testing involved, this is not a dose for life.
    As you SHBG gets lower you need for T will be less.
    ---------------------------------------

    You still may look for more information.

    1.-Where is your detailed blood test, you may have other needs?

    2.-There is two conditions asscociated with gyno,
    one is high estrogens

    what is the other


    Your gyno is not due to estrogen, your estrogen is low.
    ============================== ============================== =======
    I have no idea why would you ask you doctor for AI while you have low E condition.

    I hope hi does not give it to you.

    Quote from you:
    My E2 tested low at 12 american values.
    ============================== ============================== ========
    I suggest you take a rest for a while, I think thru how HRT works.
    I understand, when trying things for a while and hitting a wall, it can get confusing.
    ============================== ============================== ==========
    Read Dr Delgado's post:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/967090-post93.html

    Quote:

    one of the simple ways to clear SHBG is consistent use of the herb Avena Sativa (usually oral capsules) with 10 to 1 concentrate so a 300 mg capsule might be like taking 3000 mg of Avena Sativa, We usually use around 300 to 800 mg a day to clear the SHBG,
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    In my mind it was not important that you had few good days while having low T, (TT at 12 nmol/L). Unles it was good enough that you stop there and go thru life in this state.

    The idea of HRT is to keep your hormone levels at the top range of healthy young people.

    Your SHBG is high, your E2 is low.
    That is fortunate element in bad situation.
    For your SHBG level you need TT~1200
    that amount of T should not change (much) your estrogens.
    To increase your E2 and lower your SHBG I suggested the additional raise for TT.
    Remember, there is periodic blood testing involved, this is not a dose for life.
    As you SHBG gets lower you need for T will be less.
    ---------------------------------------

    You still may look for more information.

    1.-Where is your detailed blood test, you may have other needs?

    2.-There is two conditions asscociated with gyno,
    one is high estrogens

    what is the other


    Your gyno is not due to estrogen, your estrogen is low.
    ============================== ============================== =======
    I have no idea why would you ask you doctor for AI while you have low E condition.

    I hope hi does not give it to you.

    Quote from you:
    My E2 tested low at 12 american values.
    ============================== ============================== ========
    I suggest you take a rest for a while, I think thru how HRT works.
    I understand, when trying things for a while and hitting a wall, it can get confusing.
    ============================== ============================== ==========
    Read Dr Delgado's post:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/967090-post93.html

    Quote:

    one of the simple ways to clear SHBG is consistent use of the herb Avena Sativa (usually oral capsules) with 10 to 1 concentrate so a 300 mg capsule might be like taking 3000 mg of Avena Sativa, We usually use around 300 to 800 mg a day to clear the SHBG,

    Yes i hear what u are saying. the other reason for gyno would be low T or is there a 3rd reason am not aware about that in the end do not come down to estrogens or T? I guess im just abit scared of what i need to do. Having gyno along with my other conditions would make me very depressed. So im moving very slowly.

    Im allergic to gluten, wonder if i can try avenia Sativa anyways, any1 have any info regarding this? guess i can live with an upset stomach a few days if i cant tolerate it..

    Doc agreed to c me and says he will provide scripts for anti E if it will come to that, and let me use nolva if gyno rears its ugly face, so thats a good thing. He was amazed the wouldent treat me at the "specialists". He seems like a nice guy, not very knowledgeble in this field but as u say that may not be very important anyways.

    Scheduled for tomorrow, ill push for new baseline testing including all Es and progesterone.

    Let u know how it goes.
  6. Professional Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by nallepuh View Post
    Yes i hear what u are saying. the other reason for gyno would be low T or is there a 3rd reason am not aware about that in the end do not come down to estrogens or T? I guess im just abit scared of what i need to do. Having gyno along with my other conditions would make me very depressed. So im moving very slowly.

    Im allergic to gluten, wonder if i can try avenia Sativa anyways, any1 have any info regarding this? guess i can live with an upset stomach a few days if i cant tolerate it..

    Doc agreed to c me and says he will provide scripts for anti E if it will come to that, and let me use nolva if gyno rears its ugly face, so thats a good thing. He was amazed the wouldent treat me at the "specialists". He seems like a nice guy, not very knowledgeble in this field but as u say that may not be very important anyways.

    Scheduled for tomorrow, ill push for new baseline testing including all Es and progesterone.

    Let u know how it goes.
    definitely not low T

    if I had to bet

    I think it was thyroid problems
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    definitely not low T

    if I had to bet

    I think it was thyroid problems
    why do u say definetly not low T? remember im under the scale on Bat.

    Hyperthyriod and gyno comes down to high shbg due to an increase of shbg due to increase in thyriod hormones and as such a propertional increase in free E vs free T. Atleast thats what i have understood when investigating hyperthyriod gyno, meaning it comes down to Estrogen again. U seem to have come to another conslusion, or did i missunderstand u?

    cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by nallepuh View Post
    why do u say definetly not low T? remember im under the scale on Bat.

    Hyperthyriod and gyno comes down to high shbg due to an increase of shbg due to increase in thyriod hormones and as such a propertional increase in free E vs free T. Atleast thats what i have understood when investigating hyperthyriod gyno, meaning it comes down to Estrogen again. U seem to have come to another conslusion, or did i missunderstand u?

    cheers
    Like I said, I do not remember details.

    possibly someone who remember the discussion will chime in.
  

  
 

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