Anyman's personal journal: May it help me and others to follow

JanSz · 01-27-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyman

To recap- On 160mg/week of T cyp (2 shots/week @ 80mg each) brought me to 566 or so, with E under 32. Still waiting for the OK to get an "ultra sensitive" Estrogen test.

After 2 weeks on a full 180mg (90mg 2x/week) I got tested again Get this: T DROPPED to 422, although E was still "below 32". Explains why I am still often tired and cranky.

WTF?? This is not making any sense. I am on a compounded T3/T4 pill, hcg, topical selegiline and various vitamins, etc. How the hell could this happen? I have triple checked and the 1mL syringes are indeed being filled to .45 for the 200mg/mL T I have or .9mL or the 100 mg/mL bottle I had.

This isn't just puzzling. Now it's really starting to piss me off!

Any suggestions or ideas?

Consider:

switching to EOD schedule, if that is easy, do ED.
T shots every day, until next blood test.
HCG do E2D, every other day.

when testing do:

Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)
-----------------------------

At the same time, two other ideas:

Do test NutrEval at Genova

Also:
Zinc Tally
and
Betaine HCL + Pepsin

read what and how:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1257805
-------------------------------------------------------

anyman · 01-30-2008, 06:28 PM

I am beginning to get both pissed and quite concerned.

180mg/week of T cyp have done not a damned thing. Still feeling fatigued and a frequent malaise. At this level of T I should be a damned bodybuilder.

Bottom line: Dr now thinks I may some some as yet undiagnosed metabolic issue that is causing my liver, etc to rip through T (and likely other hormones as well) like they aren't even there. In his words "the drain is way bigger than the spigot". Good analogy.

Since hcg seems to have brought on some of the depression, I am to temporarily stop it and see what happens for a few weeks. He does not think I'll lose anything substantial by trying this for a few weeks. I am also to try "cobalt" drops to slow the metabolic process and then, once add'l blood is drawn, likely do a full Rhein labs 24hr urine/hormone profile. We go from there. Never heard of this stuff.

I admit to becoming a bit discouraged. Never wanted to become a goddamned living science experiment, but here I am. So much for living a normal life.....

JanSz · 01-30-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyman

I am beginning to get both pissed and quite concerned.

180mg/week of T cyp have done not a damned thing. Still feeling fatigued and a frequent malaise. At this level of T I should be a damned bodybuilder.

Bottom line: Dr now thinks I may some some as yet undiagnosed metabolic issue that is causing my liver, etc to rip through T (and likely other hormones as well) like they aren't even there. In his words "the drain is way bigger than the spigot". Good analogy.

Since hcg seems to have brought on some of the depression, I am to temporarily stop it and see what happens for a few weeks. He does not think I'll lose anything substantial by trying this for a few weeks. I am also to try "cobalt" drops to slow the metabolic process and then, once add'l blood is drawn, likely do a full Rhein labs 24hr urine/hormone profile. We go from there. Never heard of this stuff.

I admit to becoming a bit discouraged. Never wanted to become a goddamned living science experiment, but here I am. So much for living a normal life.....

And you do not even give a thought to nutriotional testing,
why?

anyman · 01-30-2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JanSz

And you do not even give a thought to nutriotional testing,
why?

1) Can't get a prescription for that as Genova will NOT do this for residents of my state. Seems such is prohibited. Don't know why, but it is. How stupid.

2) I generally eat well and a balanced diet. I decline to eat rocks, shrubs and roots exclusively. Seems that EVERYTHING we eat or touch causes everything from low T to a bad hair day. Enough already. If we as a species are this pathetically weak then I fear for our future.

I have called Genova labs-they won't help me as certain states don't allow them, for lack of a better reason. Don't know of any other entities offering similar services. Also, I reluctantly admit to a little skepticism. Billions of people live perfectly normal lives eating WAY worse than I do and without half the exercise I do. Why can't I?

Still, I am open to suggestions. The Dr told me to try "cobalt" for a bit and then a "Rhein Labs" 24 hour hormone panel. Should be interesting. I am, however, getting tired of all this.

JanSz · 01-31-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyman

1) Can't get a prescription for that as Genova will NOT do this for residents of my state. Seems such is prohibited. Don't know why, but it is. How stupid.

2) I generally eat well and a balanced diet. I decline to eat rocks, shrubs and roots exclusively. Seems that EVERYTHING we eat or touch causes everything from low T to a bad hair day. Enough already. If we as a species are this pathetically weak then I fear for our future.

I have called Genova labs-they won't help me as certain states don't allow them, for lack of a better reason. Don't know of any other entities offering similar services. Also, I reluctantly admit to a little skepticism. Billions of people live perfectly normal lives eating WAY worse than I do and without half the exercise I do. Why can't I?

Still, I am open to suggestions. The Dr told me to try "cobalt" for a bit and then a "Rhein Labs" 24 hour hormone panel. Should be interesting. I am, however, getting tired of all this.

This part:

"I am, however, getting tired of all this"

should be a big factor in doctor's mind when making any advice.

Do not know about cobalt, but can tell you that Rhein is not going to solve your disappearing testosterone puzzle.
Rethink about daily T shots, but adjust your individual dose so your average weekly stays same.
Also use smallest syringe, 3/10cc, the amouts of oil will be so small that you would make large mistakes if using larger syringes.

**jpk** · 02-18-2008, 05:11 PM

Jan and Man,

Perhaps the key here is aromatase activity. Has there been any discussion of an aromatase inhibitor to establish a more favorable test to estrogen ratio?

Just my 2 pesos....

**jpk** · 02-18-2008, 05:24 PM

Cortisol levels seem awfully high. Have you tried any cortisol modulation strategies?

Best of luck bro!

anyman · 02-18-2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpk

Jan and Man,

Perhaps the key here is aromatase activity. Has there been any discussion of an aromatase inhibitor to establish a more favorable test to estrogen ratio?

Just my 2 pesos....

So far, my E levels seem low, at least in relation to everything else.

anyman · 02-20-2008, 06:10 PM

Seems the cobalt is doing some good. I have noticeably more energy and seems to feel better all around. Weird. At times I feel like I did 10 years ago--before all this BS.

I can only hope that cobalt is doing what Dr S hoped it would. So far, so good (fingers crossed).

Mucking things up, at least temporarily, was an apparently "bad" vial of name brand (Depo-T) T cyp. One bottle would quickly precipitate and leave large crystals that could never completely be re-dissolved. Looks very different from the others I now have. I have contacted the Mfgr.

And, yes, I did take into account this bottle when evaluating the cobalt. I tested times with and without it, both before and after cobalt. This vial does much less for me whether on or off cobalt.

anyman · 02-20-2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpk

Cortisol levels seem awfully high. Have you tried any cortisol modulation strategies?

Best of luck bro!

Dr S tells me that elevated cortisol is, in my case at least, a symptom and not the cause. We shall see......

anyman · 02-27-2008, 11:54 AM

Interesting results. Had blood drawn only a few days into the cobalt to see where things stood before being on it awhile. T is higher, but so is Estradiol. Hmmmmm... Here are the results based on 160 mg of T cyp (2x80mg/week) and 150iu of hcg 2x/week:

Total T: 598 (Range: 241-827)
Estradiol 48 (<54 is "normal")
TSH: 1.1 (.40-4.5)
T4, free: 1.0 (.8-1.8)
T3, free: 348 (230-420)
Cortisol: 16.8 (4-22)
DHEAS: 259 (45-345)
DHT: Pending

Interesting- This is the highest I have seen T go, while E is also much higher. It is normally under 32, yet now shoots to 48. I wonder if an AI like DIM is in order? Cortisol, while still high, is for the first time not over range.

I'll be having a further draw in another 3-4 weeks to see what effect the Cobalt has really had. I note I felt the best I had in months for a few weeks, right after we started the Cobalt, but them slid a bit, where I remain. My personal guess is that I felt best when the T was highest, but before E was also kicked up. I could be wrong and invite comments/opinions. Let's hope that might often bizarre odyssey will help others similarly afflicted.

JanSz · 02-27-2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyman

Interesting results. Had blood drawn only a few days into the cobalt to see where things stood before being on it awhile. T is higher, but so is Estradiol. Hmmmmm... Here are the results based on 160 mg of T cyp (2x80mg/week) and 150iu of hcg 2x/week:

Total T: 598 (Range: 241-827)
Estradiol 48 (<54 is "normal")
TSH: 1.1 (.40-4.5)
T4, free: 1.0 (.8-1.8)
T3, free: 348 (230-420)
Cortisol: 16.8 (4-22)
DHEAS: 259 (45-345)
DHT: Pending

Interesting- This is the highest I have seen T go, while E is also much higher. It is normally under 32, yet now shoots to 48. I wonder if an AI like DIM is in order? Cortisol, while still high, is for the first time not over range.

I'll be having a further draw in another 3-4 weeks to see what effect the Cobalt has really had. I note I felt the best I had in months for a few weeks, right after we started the Cobalt, but them slid a bit, where I remain. My personal guess is that I felt best when the T was highest, but before E was also kicked up. I could be wrong and invite comments/opinions. Let's hope that might often bizarre odyssey will help others similarly afflicted.

I am glad that you are making progress, (you feel better).
Watch that cobalt, make sure you stop using it in time.

When have you had your blood drawn in relation to the T shot?

Lots of guessing could be avoided if you could:
have larger individual HCG shots (380iu per shot)
have blood test done at Quest
have proper tests done there
do you shots on EOD schedule, (T & hcg) on alternate days

TotalT without the rest onformation does not allow to figure out your T status.
Your e2 test looks unusual, hard to say if it is high or low.

Watch out the large amount of Test vials you just bought.
Do not use them past expiration date.
================================================== ====
Ok, stopping rant, start guesing game.
Day after shot you have got your peak TT-100%
On day 6 you would have got half life TT-50%
You are injecting every 3.5 days
on day 3.5 we see TT-75%
but we are after average TT, that is in the middle
(100+75)/2=87.5
Your average TT=598/0.875=683

This is the number you would most likely got if you have switched to EOD shots
================================================== =========
On post #9
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-...tml#post960737
your
SHBG 11 (8-46)
you need TT~750
you are close, not there yet
but
your SHBG is very low,
per some dr Marianco opinions, you will newer feel good until you do frequent shots.

this thread you have started 08-07-2007, 11:03 PM
about time to have lick you problem.

Have you ever got opinion of what is the reason for your such a low SHBG.
I bet if you figured that one out your life would be easier.
But you live in NY State, we have already been there.

OldGator · 02-28-2008, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyman

E is also much higher. It is normally under 32, yet now shoots to 48. I wonder if an AI like DIM is in order?

Anyman,
As you know we share the same doctor. My E has always been on the low normal range so luckily I have never dealt with him on high estrogen issues but I do supplement every day with PP's Sustain Alpha (transdermal with resveratrol and anti-e formula) and LEF's "Breast Health" which contains DIM, I3C, Cruciferous Veggies, and Calcium DG which are all good anti-E's. (I think JanSz also takes the Breast Health). Yeah BH is made for women but it's a great anti-E IMO. Anyway, I started taking these supplements right before doc started pushing up my test with HCG injections and my E stayed nice and low the whole way. Can't say for sure but I think the supps really helped.

Here's my question: Doesn't our doc use a prescrition anti-E when needed (like possibly in your case) like Arimidex (or LiquiDex)?? Have you asked him about that? I would be interested in that because I seem to recall someone saying our doc doesn't like to use prescription anti-E's which makes no sense when he is a leading HRT doc.

anyman · 02-28-2008, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldGator

Anyman,
As you know we share the same doctor. My E has always been on the low normal range so luckily I have never dealt with him on high estrogen issues but I do supplement every day with PP's Sustain Alpha (transdermal with resveratrol and anti-e formula) and LEF's "Breast Health" which contains DIM, I3C, Cruciferous Veggies, and Calcium DG which are all good anti-E's. (I think JanSz also takes the Breast Health). Yeah BH is made for women but it's a great anti-E IMO. Anyway, I started taking these supplements right before doc started pushing up my test with HCG injections and my E stayed nice and low the whole way. Can't say for sure but I think the supps really helped.

Here's my question: Doesn't our doc use a prescrition anti-E when needed (like possibly in your case) like Arimidex (or LiquiDex)?? Have you asked him about that? I would be interested in that because I seem to recall someone saying our doc doesn't like to use prescription anti-E's which makes no sense when he is a leading HRT doc.

Chrysin is supposedly topical nad rather weak. I may try DIM and in the interim, which I bought but never really used, and will look into "Breast Health". Never heard of it.

I called the office yesterday to see what he recommends, but the office is closed till Monday. My gut tells me that the issue is now higher E, especially since I felt incredibly better for a few days, which I think might be just before E rose after the initial T boost. Again, I could be wrong, but that's what I suspect. I'll look into LEF's stuff and call the Dr on Monday.

Thanks, as always.

OldGator · 02-28-2008, 08:29 AM

Chrysin is OTC and not very strong IMO. It is in several supplement products including a product by LEF called SuperMiraForte which I also use. You can check out this product - and "Breast Health" - at the LEF website at Life Extension Foundation - Highest Quality Vitamins And Supplements

Also I believe some use Nature's Way DIM.

That being said, I would hope the doc is not adverse to using something along the lines of Arimidex/Liquidex for higher estrogen issues. The natural supps mentioned above only get you so far.

Keep us posted on your conversation with the doc. Thanks and good luck.