Any studies on TRT effecting WBC's

  1. New Member
    qwestar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    104
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    2.93%

    Any studies on TRT effecting WBC's


    I saw a hematologist regarding my elevated WBC's. He atributed the elevation of my WBC's, neutrophils, and decrease in lymphcytes to depo testosterone.

    I have never heard of testosterone effecting someone in this way, I may have heard about a possible increase in RBC's or hemoglobin, but has anyone seen this type of effect on WBC's from testosterone use?




    For a look at my current bloodwork refer to: links between estrogen and joint pain thread.

  2. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2417
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    61.67%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by qwestar View Post
    I saw a hematologist regarding my elevated WBC's. He atributed the elevation of my WBC's, neutrophils, and decrease in lymphcytes to depo testosterone.

    I have never heard of testosterone effecting someone in this way, I may have heard about a possible increase in RBC's or hemoglobin, but has anyone seen this type of effect on WBC's from testosterone use?




    For a look at my current bloodwork refer to: links between estrogen and joint pain thread.
    post link to that thread, give post number.
  3. New Member
    qwestar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    104
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    2.93%

    I'm unable to post the link.

    June 14, 2007
    CBC
    *WBC 11.6 (4.0-11.0)
    RBC 5.47 (4.20-6.00)
    *Hemoglobin 16.6 (12.6-16.4)
    *Neutrophils % 80.4 (40.0-70.0)
    *Lymohocytes % 13.0 (20.0-40.0)
    *Neutrophils, ABS 9.3 (1.6-7.8)
    Lymphocytes Abs 1.5 (1.0-4.5)
    MPV 8.3 (8.0-13.0)

    July 3, 2007

    CBC
    *WBC 11.6 (4.0-11.0)
    *Neutophils 78.5 (40.0-70.0)
    *Lymphocytes 14.5 (20.0-40.0)
    *Neutrophil Abs 9.1 (1.6-7.8)
    MPV 8.7 (8.0 13.0)
    RBC 5.38 (4.20-6.00)
    Hemoglobin 16.0 (12.6-16.4)
    Hematocrit 46.2 (38.0-52.0)
    Platelets 316 (150-450)
    •   
       

  4. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2417
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    61.67%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by qwestar View Post
    I'm unable to post the link.

    June 14, 2007
    CBC
    *WBC 11.6 (4.0-11.0)
    RBC 5.47 (4.20-6.00)
    *Hemoglobin 16.6 (12.6-16.4)
    *Neutrophils % 80.4 (40.0-70.0)
    *Lymohocytes % 13.0 (20.0-40.0)
    *Neutrophils, ABS 9.3 (1.6-7.8)
    Lymphocytes Abs 1.5 (1.0-4.5)
    MPV 8.3 (8.0-13.0)

    July 3, 2007

    CBC
    *WBC 11.6 (4.0-11.0)
    *Neutophils 78.5 (40.0-70.0)
    *Lymphocytes 14.5 (20.0-40.0)
    *Neutrophil Abs 9.1 (1.6-7.8)
    MPV 8.7 (8.0 13.0)
    RBC 5.38 (4.20-6.00)
    Hemoglobin 16.0 (12.6-16.4)
    Hematocrit 46.2 (38.0-52.0)
    Platelets 316 (150-450)
    Links between Estrogen and joint pain?

    Post #4
    in post #22
    I noted that you are on 200mg/week Test Cypionate.

    This may be a job for cpeil2
  5. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2417
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    61.67%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Just skimming the other thread I want to keep the notes below in mind:


    Links between Estrogen and joint pain?

    Your SHBG=13

    on 200mg/week Depo test your blood test show:

    Testosterone, Total RIA 379 (241-824)
    Estradiol 24 (less than 52)

    Testosterone Total 772 (241-827)
    Estradiol 76 (less than 52)

    Cortisol (blood)27.6 (3.0-22.4)
    24 hour urine Cortisol 98.8 (4.0-50.0)

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Your are using way too much testosterone.
    Your response is not consistent with that large dose of testosterone.
  6. New Member
    cpeil2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    414
    Rep Power
    305
    Level
    16
    Lv. Percent
    21.14%

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Links between Estrogen and joint pain?

    Post #4
    in post #22
    I noted that you are on 200mg/week Test Cypionate.

    This may be a job for cpeil2


    Your absolute lymphocyte count appears to be normal. Absolute neutrophil count is mildly elevated - curious, but probably not enough to worry about too much.


    The WBC is elevated because of the neutrophilia.

    Causes of mild WBC elevation include:

    Stress and anxiety (your cortisol is elevated, you are recovering from a recent surgery);

    Anesthesia (you had a recent surgery);

    Inflammation ( you have asthma); and

    Cortiocosteroid administration (you use prednisone for the asthma).


    You also posted to a thread about joint pain. Other inflammation such as arthritis can cause elevated WBC.


    I have never heard of T affecting WBC, but wouldn't discount it. Hematologists tend to very sharp cookies.


    It is curious that he seems to have discounted all the other things in your history that could account for the elevated WBC.
    Last edited by cpeil2; 08-07-2007 at 12:11 PM. Reason: Add content
  7. New Member
    qwestar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    104
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    2.93%

    Thanks JansZ. The elevated Cortisol readings were from Feb before iniating TRT.
    I have not used Prednisone in over 5 years.
    I did recently have a shoulder surgery (June 6) but it is interesting that he linked the elevation to Testosterone before saying it would be from my surgery.
    Last edited by qwestar; 08-07-2007 at 12:14 PM. Reason: add comment
  8. New Member
    qwestar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    104
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    2.93%

    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    It is curious that he seems to have discounted all the other things in your history that could account for the elevated WBC.

    Agreed. To note one thing I have a history of elevated estrogen levels, which my endo had said can sometimes be caused by viral issues.
  9. New Member
    cpeil2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    414
    Rep Power
    305
    Level
    16
    Lv. Percent
    21.14%

    Quote Originally Posted by qwestar View Post
    Thanks JansZ. The elevated Cortisol readings were from before iniating TRT in Feb.
    I have not used Prednisone in over 5 years.
    I did recently have a shoulder surgery (June 6) but it is interesting that he linked the elevation to Testosterone before saying it would be from my surgery.

    He might also have had an agenda (oh my god, the guy is using STEROIDS) that was clouding his judgement.
  10. New Member
    qwestar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    104
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    2.93%

    Very true Cpeil2...
    I just want to make sure that there isn't something wrong with my immune system.

    unfortunately I was never given a CBC before starting TRT, or before my surgery.

    I feel like my immune system is not nearly as strong as it used to be. Since about 4 yrs ago. It seems every time I get a cold it turns into an upper respiratory infection. I get them about 2-4 times a year now.

    I also question this Hematologist because he said I am not iron defcient. I came with to sets of blood work that had my iron in the 30's, and since my iron went up into the high 50's (58) when he tested he said all was well. Range 45-182. Not sure what to think.

    Anyhow I do not feel healthy. Mostly lethargic, fatigue, joint pain, depressed to name a few.
  11. New Member
    cpeil2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    414
    Rep Power
    305
    Level
    16
    Lv. Percent
    21.14%

    Quote Originally Posted by qwestar View Post

    unfortunately I was never given a CBC before starting TRT, or before my surgery.

    Huh???? Isn't a CBC a standard part of a pre-operative evaluation?
  12. New Member
    qwestar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    104
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    2.93%

    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    Huh???? Isn't a CBC a standard part of a pre-operative evaluation?
    I would have thought that too.

    Believe me I feel very alone in my medical endeavors, I am the only one fighting, my resources are no greater than a few discussion boards. I'm really begining to give up at this point.
  13. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2417
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    61.67%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by qwestar View Post
    Agreed. To note one thing I have a history of elevated estrogen levels, which my endo had said can sometimes be caused by viral issues.
    I know only the history that you have posted.
    You are using way too much testosterone and that is not increasing your TotalT as one would expected (close to 2000).
    Instead you have high E2 as one would expect on high dose of testosterone.

    I think Phil at one time had similar situation and all changed when he started using Florinef.

    I am not saying you should use Florinef, just thinking loud.

    Whatewer, you are killing your already low SHBG.
  14. New Member
    qwestar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    104
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    2.93%

    As far as my history of elevated E, it's not really documented, I just have had gyno since I was about 10 or 11 yrs old, and going by my bloodwork from Feb.

    Do you suggest I just go ahead and take this into my own hands as far as dosage or wait to consult with my endo (I see him Sept. 6)?

    He already knows my SHBG, and didn't say anything about that, so I don't know if he even knows WTF he's doing. Then again he never even tried to adress the estrogen issue before TRT. Since he only ran estradiol tests on me (let alone the improper one) and it came in range he saw that it was no longer a problem.

    I truly believe that these other estrogens are a big part of the problem for me, and will have to make him test all of them next visit. And makes me second guess him for not testing them. He told me to only be concerned with e2.

    Once again I went from:
    total estrogen serum of 244 (less than 130) Jan before being reffered to my endo.

    to my e2 being stable until starting TRT.
  15. New Member
    qwestar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    104
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    2.93%

    I have never heard of Florinef before.
  16. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2417
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    61.67%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by qwestar View Post
    As far as my history of elevated E, it's not really documented, I just have had gyno since I was about 10 or 11 yrs old, and going by my bloodwork from Feb.

    Do you suggest I just go ahead and take this into my own hands as far as dosage or wait to consult with my endo (I see him Sept. 6)?

    He already knows my SHBG, and didn't say anything about that, so I don't know if he even knows WTF he's doing. Then again he never even tried to adress the estrogen issue before TRT. Since he only ran estradiol tests on me (let alone the improper one) and it came in range he saw that it was no longer a problem.

    I truly believe that these other estrogens are a big part of the problem for me, and will have to make him test all of them next visit. And makes me second guess him for not testing them. He told me to only be concerned with e2.

    Once again I went from:
    total estrogen serum of 244 (less than 130) Jan before being reffered to my endo.

    to my e2 being stable until starting TRT.
    Quote Originally Posted by qwestar View Post
    I have never heard of Florinef before.
    Always follow your doctor's advice.

    Always trust but verify.

    Learn as much as you can, so you are able to have educated opinion on the progress of your treatmant.

    Some/most doctors allow patients some amount of independence,
    thread carefully and wisely but use it.
    Adjusting doses between visits is probably a common topic for over the phone consultations.

    When changing dose allow for stabilization period before the next blood draw.
  17. New Member
    qwestar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    104
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    2.93%

    Just got my bloodwork faxed to me from the hematologist from last monday. Here are some results:

    Iron 58 (30-160)
    Ferritin 117 (30-400)
    *Iron % Sat. 20 (20-55%)
    TIBC 297 (228-428)

    Protime 11.4 (10.1-13) (6 sec)
    INR 1.00 (2.00-3.00) (normal for people not taking warfarin)
    P.T.T. 28.9 (23.8-35.1) (1 sec)


    Any thoughts on the best to get my endo to consider consulting with Dr. John?
    Also my endo sucks with phone consultations.
  18. New Member
    cpeil2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    414
    Rep Power
    305
    Level
    16
    Lv. Percent
    21.14%

    Quote Originally Posted by qwestar View Post
    Just got my bloodwork faxed to me from the hematologist from last monday. Here are some results:

    Iron 58 (30-160)
    Ferritin 117 (30-400)
    *Iron % Sat. 20 (20-55%)
    TIBC 297 (228-428)

    Protime 11.4 (10.1-13) (6 sec)
    INR 1.00 (2.00-3.00) (normal for people not taking warfarin)
    P.T.T. 28.9 (23.8-35.1) (1 sec)


    Any thoughts on the best to get my endo to consider consulting with Dr. John?
    Also my endo sucks with phone consultations.
    Why did he order the clotting studies?
  19. New Member
    qwestar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    104
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    2.93%

    I don't know? Maybe because he's not as sharp as he used to be? LOL

    This really doesn't make any sence now. He mentioned screening for a certain type of luekemia that does this to white blood cells, but I guess he tested clotting factors instead.

    For the last 2 months my iron has been in the sub normal range. It raised a little on the day I tested with him, so I guess I am cured.

    Thank you all for your replies!
  20. New Member
    CF10's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Age
    30
    Posts
    160
    Rep Power
    173
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    25.18%

    I've been following the thread hoping someone knew of a link between WBC and T, because mine are both low. I have been evaluated by a hematologist who said there's nothing wrong with my blood cells, I am apparently just low for no known cause but I'm not in any danger. I'm never sick so it's not a problem I guess, but I cant help but wonder if the two are tied together somehow. If the docs fix my T levels it will be interesting to see if my WBC rise and I'll be sure to let you know if that happens.
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. any studies on adderall and hgh output ?
    By WATERLOGGED in forum General Chat
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 09-09-2009, 11:16 PM
  2. Study on the effect of drugs on spider's web building
    By diminuendo in forum General Chat
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-04-2008, 03:34 PM
  3. The effects of GH on TRT
    By lifternewbie in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-30-2007, 12:33 AM
  4. Any companies have any studies on THEIR products?
    By dannyboy9 in forum Nutrition / Health
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 09-05-2007, 08:11 PM
  5. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-10-2005, 02:35 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in