TRT disaster, please help
- 08-02-2007, 09:27 AM
TRT disaster, please help
when i was on 100mg a week i had a level of test. 682 and an e2 level of 8.
i started on 150mg a week of test. cyp. after that last bloodwork. i also started taking 1.25mg of arimidex a week, and wellbutrin. my levels came back test. 1797 and e2 <2.
it is clear i need to elevate my e2 levels. i will stop the arimidex, but im wondering:
are my testosterone levels so high because my e2 was driven so low? like if i stop taking the arimidex, will my levels drop from 1797 and to something more correlated to my 100mg response? (like approx. 1000) i ask this because my doctor wants me to lower my dosage, but if im going to start raising e2 to healthy levels then it may start driving my test levels down right?
also i have been taking 200mg dhea a day. my results came back 481. should i modify this dosage? and after the arimidex is stopped, will this much dhea help put me in better position in the e2 range? or is the newer higher dosage actually putting me probably at a better e2 then 8, but my arimidex dosage was too aggressive and i pushed it too low?
DHEA sulfate was 481 range was 110-510....i didnt take dhea the day of the test. is that correct to do? also that was my result taking 200mg of dhea a day, split up 100mg in the morning and 100mg in the evening.
estradiol, ultra sensitive was <2 range was < or = 29
testosterone total was 1797 range 250-1100
testosteorne free % was 3.28 range was 1.10-2.80
testosterone free was 589.4 range was 35-155
also, like the dhea, i figured i shouldnt take my Armour thyroid mediciine the day of the blood test. here are my thyroid results....shouldnt i be in the upper end of the t3 and t4, just like you try and get testosterone in the upper range if your on replacement therapy?
t4 total 5.9 range was 3.8-12
t4 free 1.0 range was 0.8-1.8
t3 free 386 range was 230-420
those were my results on 60mg (i believe thats one grain) of armour thyroid, split in half, taken once in the morning and once in the evening, sublingually. again, i did not take this med the morning of my blood test.
i was injecting .8mg e3d and this was 2 days after my last inject, which means the day before my next inject.
since then i have dropped the dosage as such. .6mg of t, then .7mg of t.
instead of doing e3d, im doing .7mg t then waiting FOUR days, then doing .6mg t then waiting THREE days. so bottom line is instead of 150mg every 6 days im doing 130mg every 7 days. is that a big enough drop?
and the strange thing is when i started arimidex i felt better using it, and i got morning wood...but this was after my E was 8....now it is <2 and i have no wood....how could lowering it from 8, but keeping it higher than <2 given me good feelings and wood? doesnt make sense. maybe it was placebo at the time?
anyway, i have since stopped taking all arimidex, no real improvements yet but i didnt stop arimidex until the 25th.
now here is the other problem...e2 was 8 before using arimidex. then when it dropped to <2 it was after using 2mg of arimidex between tuesday the third and sunday the 8th. i guess i may have gone overboard a bit, but wouldnt it take more time for the levels to drop by the 11th when i got the blood test done?
do you think my level was 8 while i was not on arimidex and taking 100mg e6d and now that my levels went up from the increased dosage of 150mg e6d that i actually DID need arimdex, but that i took too much before my next blood test?
HELP! my best idea for where to go from here is:
1. maintain new dosage of 130mg a week.
2. see if i feel better using 130mg and 200mg dhea
3. if not introduce arimidex, but instead of 1mg a week, start at .5 a week or .75
4. titrate dosages of armidex slowly, maybe increasing dosage every 2 weeks to give morning wood a chance to show itself again
so that was a long post....any ideas? and should i press for higher Armour dosage as well?
i still have next to no morning wood, libido, or erection ability....all this started when T levels began to drop while still natural...ever since starting T therapy things have not gotten better, not even a hyper response in the first few weeks....still searching for my lose manhood....
- 08-02-2007, 10:07 AM
08-02-2007, 12:54 PM
"i was injecting .8mg e3d and this was 2 days after my last inject, which means the day before my next inject."
"testosterone total was 1797 range 250-1100"
08-02-2007, 01:01 PM
08-02-2007, 01:03 PM
08-02-2007, 01:14 PM
no your correct. they are out of whack.
the t is strangely high... at 100mg a week i was at 682 TT, so me and my doctor figured 150mg should put me at around 1020 (following a linear response estimate)....strangely it shot up to 1797...
only changes have been 200mg of dhea a day, 300mg of wellbutrin xl a day, and 1.5mg of arimidex a week
arimdex obviously needs to be cut out as my e2 is low not high. this has been done.
testosterone dosage obviously needs to be cut down, as it was too high. i have since dropped from 150mg e6d to 130 e7d. that is a nice drop, and i hope that i will have more appropriate levels.
i am concerned about getting my T levels in range because i have low testosterone, so i want to get it into the highest quartile.
08-02-2007, 01:29 PM
When you were on 100mg/week, how were you doing the injections? Once a week? When was the lab taken on the 100mg/week result?
Be careful with the arimidex. As you've seen...it doesn't matter how much Test you have if your E2 is out of whack.
08-02-2007, 01:49 PM
I like the idea of DHEA. It will boost E2. Stick with it.
Get off the adex.
Did you respond to transdermals? Did your Dr try a TD first? He better have.
You will get better T -> E conversion with a transdermal. And safer, more stable levels of T.
08-02-2007, 01:53 PM
#2 with what you have already posted I suggest
120mg testosterone, use E3D schedule, shots around 7-9AM
hcg 500iu on same days as T
both shots subQ around navel using 31ga 3/10cc 5/16" long needle syringe
increase your Armour to 3-4 grains, split dose 3x/day, watch your dose via resting pulse no more than 80bpm
do not use Arimidex period
instead use LEF DualAction 5 pills and TMG 2 pills
drop your DHEA supplements, replace it with
prescription compounded pregnenolone cream, 100mg/1gram, use 1gram/day
after two months on this schedule do blood test.
Go to Quest Diagnostics, draw blood on the day of the shots, time of the shots, before shots.
(blood draws usually happens 7-9AM, make sure your usual first Armour dose is around that time,
do not take Armour before blood draw.
Use blood test as close as you wish to my list here, post #44:
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
But do at least what I put below, print the list below and ask doctor to write all that there is on two or three script forms, all numbers and letters are important, when doc uses (recomended) forms those requirements are getting lost.
If doc resist, settle the part below dashed line written on script, the top of the list any way he wants.
Those requirements will ask Quest to use their lattes (hopefully the best) technology while performing your tests.
C-reactive protein CRP
Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A)
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Estrogens, Fractionated, LC/MS/MS (36742X)
Estrogen, Total, Serum (439X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)
08-02-2007, 02:07 PM
I like the idea of preg cream jansZ, but I think here DHEA supplemented is prudent, it will help boost his low estrogen levels.
08-02-2007, 02:12 PM
DHEA + Pregnenolone cream
not sure about available strenghts.
Use enough cream to get 100mg pregnenolone/day
On a first try I was hoping that he will get his DHEAs into top range or even 10% over it just on pregnenolone cream.
Next will be guided by results of blood test.
Add 4-6 drops/day of Lugol's solution of Iodine
I buy mine at Amazon dot com
08-02-2007, 06:24 PM
ok heres the breakdown of how much testosterone a day im getting with each of the different possibilities:
ill be getting 25mg a day when using 150mg every 6 days (this gave me 1797 TT)
16.6mg a day 100mg e6d (this gave me 682 TT)
so im thinking of either trying
18.5mg a day 130mg e7d
20mg a day 120mg e6d
what do you guys think? 130mg e7d or 120mg e6d?
if i did 130 e7d, i would take 70mg then 4 days later take 60mg, then 3 days later take 60mg, and so on
if i did 120mg e6d i would take 60mg then 3 days later take 60mg, and so on
i want to call my doctor and suggest a new dosage, because at this point in time she wants me back at 100mg e6d, which isnt quite as high as id like it...
and the consensus is that i do have low e2, and that i need to avoid estrogen lowering compounds and should try and keep testosterone levels high and dhea high to promote aromitization?
jansz thanks for all your indepth help! once i get my thyroid and T levels and estradiol levels under control, ill try getting on all the things you said. i just am in college, and currently have a horrible endocrinologist who would never even try any of that stuff, let alone HCG or arimidex! (i had to get arimidex from research sites). i need to go to Penn or Jefferson, and get a good endo. its shame i start school soon, and i wont have the chance. sometimes i feel i should take the semester off to get my life together...
and what about my thyroid? how do i convince my doctor that i want more armour? im in normal ranges for t3 and t4, i really doubt shell increase it.
08-02-2007, 06:44 PM
08-02-2007, 06:50 PM
thats only 28mins from my house according to mapquest. nice maybe ill seek him out. my current endo is a female and an uninterested, uneducated one at that.
and with the e2 levels, i know it takes time for the e2 to gunk/ungunk my receptors, and to enjoy the benefits/problems that e2 can cause, but the actual e2 numbers that a blood test will show must change pretty rapidly right?
im asking this because if i stopped armidex for, say, 2 weeks, can i get a blood test that soon to see where my e2 is? i want to find it out sooner than later, because i may go from way low e2 to high e2, and never hit that sweet spot. if i can find my actual e2 levels, i can adjust arimidex if needed, or try and get an estrogen compound.
08-02-2007, 07:35 PM
08-02-2007, 07:39 PM
"and the consensus is that i do have low e2, and that i need to avoid estrogen lowering compounds and should try and keep testosterone levels high and dhea high to promote aromitization?"
I would opt for a transdermal for this. T cream would do the trick.
If you can get DHEA + Preg in cream, that would be great as well. If not, stay with DHEA orally until then. It will help with E.
08-07-2007, 07:08 PM
hey ever since i dropped the arimidex, my e2 has been going back up....obviously...
i had a few days where i had morning wood, but it i think that went away recently
as many of you know, estrogen activity competes with thyroid activity (or something to that effect)
my temperature on one grain of armour originally kept me around 96.8-97.3osh
then when i started taking arimidex, my one grain of armour kept me at 98.6!
now i stopped taking armidex, and my temps dropped back down to 96.8-97.3ish
i assume that when i pushed me e2 too low, i had plenty of free T3/T4 and great temps. now that e2 is elevated or maybe normal, i have poor temps again.
so basically i need to check e2 levels and thyroid levels again
do you guys believe i should start a low dosage of arimidex as well? maybe .25mg e3d? remember that at 1.5mg of arimidex a day i got down below <2 e2, and when i used no arimidex i had an e2 of 8....
but when i started using armidex when i only had an e2 of 8, i actually started to get morning erectins for a little bit.....
so confused! what should i do!?
08-07-2007, 08:09 PM
To get back your bearings.
Pick some reasonable schedule.
Hold on to it for six weeks.
Do blood test. The more items you test the more info you have.
Act on results of your blood test.
AFAIK Phil's doctor changes his schedule only after two blood tests in a row indicate certain condition.
08-27-2007, 03:42 PM
08-27-2007, 05:25 PM
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