Low SHBG: Has anyone with it ever gotten "better" ? Does Fish Oil worsen it?

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    Low SHBG: Has anyone with it ever gotten "better" ? Does Fish Oil worsen it?


    Curious-

    I've read several items noting how low shbg may create issues, some of which might be tough to fix. I also noted Dr. S's chart showing the relationship between shbg and optimal T levels wherein guys w/ low SHBG can often get by w/ lower overall T levels.

    Anyone similarly screwed have any experiences. thought or ideas to share?

    It there a way to raise it? Can't find much so far.

    Also, while I am at it, does anyone have experience with or knowledge of Fish oil keeping shbg down? I take fish oil as it is supposed to be a great thing, but somewhere along the line I stumbled across something indicating that it might lower or depress shbg. I have no proof on this, hence my question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    Curious-

    I've read several items noting how low shbg may create issues, some of which might be tough to fix. I also noted Dr. S's chart showing the relationship between shbg and optimal T levels wherein guys w/ low SHBG can often get by w/ lower overall T levels.

    Anyone similarly screwed have any experiences. thought or ideas to share?

    It there a way to raise it? Can't find much so far.

    Also, while I am at it, does anyone have experience with or knowledge of Fish oil keeping shbg down? I take fish oil as it is supposed to be a great thing, but somewhere along the line I stumbled across something indicating that it might lower or depress shbg. I have no proof on this, hence my question.

    I beleive that your body gets to a certain point and then it will regulate its self if induced by an out side natural source. Article saids fish oils are used to keep shbg in check and may lower them, but not probably to a sub normal level..
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    If only could take one supplement..FO would be it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    If only could take one supplement..FO would be it.
    Why not eat fish and enjoy it LOL and just take multivitamin..
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    I am not a Dr.

    I have read posts from Marianco that increasing SHBG should NOT be a goal unto itself. Instead look for the underlying causes - T lowers it (so maybe too much T being administered), Thyroid hormones raise it (so maybe Hypothyroid), etc.

    It's a complx scenario.

    SHBG is a clue to other issues. Not the issue itself.


    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    Curious-

    I've read several items noting how low shbg may create issues, some of which might be tough to fix. I also noted Dr. S's chart showing the relationship between shbg and optimal T levels wherein guys w/ low SHBG can often get by w/ lower overall T levels.

    Anyone similarly screwed have any experiences. thought or ideas to share?

    It there a way to raise it? Can't find much so far.

    Also, while I am at it, does anyone have experience with or knowledge of Fish oil keeping shbg down? I take fish oil as it is supposed to be a great thing, but somewhere along the line I stumbled across something indicating that it might lower or depress shbg. I have no proof on this, hence my question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wondering View Post
    I am not a Dr.

    I have read posts from Marianco that increasing SHBG should NOT be a goal unto itself. Instead look for the underlying causes - T lowers it (so maybe too much T being administered), Thyroid hormones raise it (so maybe Hypothyroid), etc.

    It's a complx scenario.

    SHBG is a clue to other issues. Not the issue itself.
    Ok then when my t was 1111 and free t highest range, but having low thyroid, insulin and blood sugar perfect but shbg was 37 and all ways been 17 way before I was sick. Could altered e metabolism be raising it despote e2 is in check..
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    You're over my head now and i do NOT like to speculate.

    I drew that tidbit I wrote from a Word file that you actually provided that contined TONS of posts from Marianco. Big wealth of info. Maybe check there?


    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Ok then when my t was 1111 and free t highest range, but having low thyroid, insulin and blood sugar perfect but shbg was 37 and all ways been 17 way before I was sick. Could altered e metabolism be raising it despote e2 is in check..
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    OK, so fish oil is good.Are guys w/ low SHBG doomed or is there hope?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    You need fish oil. We all do.
    Are people with low shbg unsolvable? Is there hope? What else can be done?
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    not at all, but you need a doctor that has a clue. see attachment containing some thoughts from Marianco...






    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    Are people with low shbg unsolvable? Is there hope? What else can be done?
    Attached Files Attached Files
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    Tremendously helpful--thank you.


    Quote Originally Posted by wondering View Post
    not at all, but you need a doctor that has a clue. see attachment containing some thoughts from Marianco...
    That was exactly what I was looking for. Looks like there may be hope after all! I'd love to hear from guys who have overcome this problem.

    This has to be beatable. Can't give up trying--or hope.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wondering View Post
    You're over my head now and i do NOT like to speculate.

    I drew that tidbit I wrote from a Word file that you actually provided that contined TONS of posts from Marianco. Big wealth of info. Maybe check there?

    That word document was from me HAHAHA from chip
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    Quote Originally Posted by wondering View Post
    not at all, but you need a doctor that has a clue. see attachment containing some thoughts from Marianco...
    THAT SHOULD BE A STICKY !!
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    Hardasnails...You had put together a 400 page Word file that had TONS of posts from Marianco. I've been slow at work and been reading it for 2 days. LOL.

    Finally, I have gotten my PCP to consult w/ Dr. Crisler. Ran 24 Hour Urine and SHBG test. Just got SHBG 14 (11-80) and Total T 657 (Day 7). I think I am on too much T, plus some complicating factors that hopefully, Dr. Crisler can figure out.

    Urine test due any day now. Can't wait for my VOV.

    Been 12 years and finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. Took 3 months to convince my PCP to call Dr. Crisler. I think he was oncerned that he was some online pill-pusher.

    Once he spoke with him he said he was very relieved.. said he obviously knows more about this stuff than he does.

    For anyone suffering.. I strongly encourage you to stop expecting for the answers to fly off your computer screen in this forum and heal you. There's tons of helpful people and info to ask good questions, but at the end of the day you need a competent physician. Don't waste anymore of your life... take charge, find a good one or at least an open minded one that is willing to call Dr. C.



    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    THAT SHOULD BE A STICKY !!
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    Excellent advice on many levels. Good doctors are hard to find.


    Quote Originally Posted by wondering View Post

    Finally, I have gotten my PCP to consult w/ Dr. Crisler. Ran 24 Hour Urine and SHBG test. Just got SHBG 14 (11-80) and Total T 657 (Day 7). I think I am on too much T, plus some complicating factors that hopefully, Dr. Crisler can figure out.

    Been 12 years and finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. Took 3 months to convince my PCP to call Dr. Crisler. I think he was oncerned that he was some online pill-pusher.

    Once he spoke with him he said he was very relieved.. said he obviously knows more about this stuff than he does.

    For anyone suffering.. I strongly encourage you to stop expecting for the answers to fly off your computer screen in this forum and heal you. There's tons of helpful people and info to ask good questions, but at the end of the day you need a competent physician. Don't waste anymore of your life... take charge, find a good one or at least an open minded one that is willing to call Dr. C.
    Sound advice. I just started with Dr. Shippen. Good man and a good doctor. Like pretty much all of us, I readily admit that I am anxious to see some improvement even though I intellectually understand that the process can take time.

    Still, I continue to research and ask questions. I seek to understand what happened and why. I also want to ask better, more informed questions and take part in an eventual recovery. OK, what I really want is to not be bothered by all this nonsense and live a normal life, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards just yet!

    Excellent posts and very helpful. If I might, how are you doing with shbg that low and T where it is? Since we appear to share some commonality I'd appreciate any insight and experiences you care to share. Thanks--
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Why not eat fish and enjoy it LOL and just take multivitamin..
    Because I live in Arizona and there is no such thing as "fresh" fish here. lol

    I'm picky about that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Because I live in Arizona and there is no such thing as "fresh" fish here. lol

    I'm picky about that.
    I'd bet there are fish as fresh there as with most other places. Trout, catfish, etc should be relatively available. Here in florida even its not like I catch my own, so it still has to get brought in by a boat, then trucked around, etc
    This space for rent

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    SHBG, for me, is just like prolactin - These are things that tend to fix themselves when on a proper Dr monitored TRT program. Im agnostic about treating them as seperate issues.
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    I know who you are talking about, Dr John and I think he lost the respect of just about everyone that day. I don't think anyone who saw what he posted took him seriously. You need not worry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T800 View Post
    I know who you are talking about, Dr John and I think he lost the respect of just about everyone that day. I don't think anyone who saw what he posted took him seriously. You need not worry.

    Sonny
    YEP and is losing respect of people from that other board as well !!

    Dr when you mention over loaded by androgens when this occurs how long untill the shift takes place on shbg to start to lower 2-3 months
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    That is a very nice work.

    Let me add these thoughts. I tend to see more trouble in patients who have low SHBG than high. ESPECIALLY in an environment of concurrent elevated estrogens. When SHBG is high, it can be mass action overcome with androgen. But when it is low, I see an association with emotional issues.

    Some of you may remember a former patient of mine, active on another Board, who has low SHBG. This gent is so profoundly troubled he, although well tuned withrespect to his hormones--for absolutely no reason whatsoever--decided to make up and post all manner of defamatory comments about me, but then had the nerve to contact me later and ask me for (more, since he never paid me) free medical advice.

    Every doctor will be faced with patients with emotional issues. But what bothered me about that guy is that he misrepresented my treatments. lol
    Dr John, every time I see someone with severly lowered SHBG, the word "Prior AAS use" pops in my mind.

    These AAS guys just don't know what there getting themselves into.
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    Thanks. Dr. J. I appreciate your insight into low SHBG and can sympathize w/ you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    Let me add these thoughts. I tend to see more trouble in patients who have low SHBG than high. ESPECIALLY in an environment of concurrent elevated estrogens. When SHBG is high, it can be mass action overcome with androgen. But when it is low, I see an association with emotional issues.

    Some of you may remember a former patient of mine, active on another Board, who has low SHBG. This gent is so profoundly troubled he, although well tuned withrespect to his hormones--for absolutely no reason whatsoever--decided to make up and post all manner of defamatory comments about me, but then had the nerve to contact me later and ask me for (more, since he never paid me) free medical advice.
    Having low shbg myself I am keenly interested in this issue and how to overcome it as the emotional/mood issues are become increasingly hard to ignore and adjust to. Any suggestions? The more I learn the better patient I can be, or so I hope. I welcome any further comments/suggestions you may have on this.

    As for the former patient, that is unfortunate and uncalled for. I doubt very much such could or would have an effect on your well earned reputation. Took a real brass pair to ask for advice AFTER criticizing you. Some people are just nuts....
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    Well, Dr. Crisler - that may be the case with me. SHBG of 14 (11-80) seems low and I have some anxiety issues.

    Dying to see what the urine test you recommended comes back with and for our VOV. I hope I am not so difficult a case.

    Curious, I have seen Marianco often state that Thyroid can be an issue even if tests come back normal and Adrenal issues are important even if E2 is high. These may be underlying causes of symptoms irrespective of controlling E2.

    I imagine Urine test provides you with info on Adenal function, but not Thyroid?

    Thanks for your time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    That is a very nice work.

    Let me add these thoughts. I tend to see more trouble in patients who have low SHBG than high. ESPECIALLY in an environment of concurrent elevated estrogens. When SHBG is high, it can be mass action overcome with androgen. But when it is low, I see an association with emotional issues.

    Some of you may remember a former patient of mine, active on another Board, who has low SHBG. This gent is so profoundly troubled he, although well tuned withrespect to his hormones--for absolutely no reason whatsoever--decided to make up and post all manner of defamatory comments about me, but then had the nerve to contact me later and ask me for (more, since he never paid me) free medical advice.

    Every doctor will be faced with patients with emotional issues. But what bothered me about that guy is that he misrepresented my treatments. lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by wondering View Post
    Hardasnails...You had put together a 400 page Word file that had TONS of posts from Marianco. I've been slow at work and been reading it for 2 days. LOL.

    Finally, I have gotten my PCP to consult w/ Dr. Crisler. Ran 24 Hour Urine and SHBG test. Just got SHBG 14 (11-80) and Total T 657 (Day 7). I think I am on too much T, plus some complicating factors that hopefully, Dr. Crisler can figure out.

    Urine test due any day now. Can't wait for my VOV.

    Been 12 years and finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. Took 3 months to convince my PCP to call Dr. Crisler. I think he was oncerned that he was some online pill-pusher.

    Once he spoke with him he said he was very relieved.. said he obviously knows more about this stuff than he does.

    For anyone suffering.. I strongly encourage you to stop expecting for the answers to fly off your computer screen in this forum and heal you. There's tons of helpful people and info to ask good questions, but at the end of the day you need a competent physician. Don't waste anymore of your life... take charge, find a good one or at least an open minded one that is willing to call Dr. C.
    Just got SHBG 14 (11-80) and Total T 657 (Day 7)

    I assume that you are on weekly dose of testosterone and draw blood on day of the shot before the shot.
    Your TT & SHBG number place you at
    FreeT~190
    looking at the chart here, post #41:
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    That is about middle of desirable range (160-250)

    Going by what is in Dr Marianco's post (above Word file) I suggest that you increase frequency of your T&hcg shots
    best E2D both shots on the same day, but do not change weekly dose of T.

    second best
    E3D

    SubQ shots around navel, into fat, should slow T delivery and equalize T levels further.

    Do not change to transdermal (daily) delivery, to many variables that change with passing time.
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    How am I doing w/ T where it is and low SHBG?...

    Not nearly as well as I hoped when I started Test Cyp last November. I do sleep better, but still have some anxiety, low but not crippling energy, NO nocturnal erections and libido issues.

    Curious what my E2 will be when test returns and if Dr Crisler thinks that is the answer or if I have underlying Adrenal or Thyroid issues. Hopefully an adjusted course of action in the week or two ahead. Can't wait.


    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    Sound advice. I just started with Dr. Shippen. Good man and a good doctor. Like pretty much all of us, I readily admit that I am anxious to see some improvement even though I intellectually understand that the process can take time.

    Still, I continue to research and ask questions. I seek to understand what happened and why. I also want to ask better, more informed questions and take part in an eventual recovery. OK, what I really want is to not be bothered by all this nonsense and live a normal life, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards just yet!

    Excellent posts and very helpful. If I might, how are you doing with shbg that low and T where it is? Since we appear to share some commonality I'd appreciate any insight and experiences you care to share. Thanks--
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    Low SHBG and NEVER took steroids.

    But, maybe I am on too high test Cyp injections. We'll see what the good Dr. has to say in my appt.



    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Dr John, every time I see someone with severly lowered SHBG, the word "Prior anabolic steroids use" pops in my mind.

    These AAS guys just don't know what there getting themselves into.
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    Seems that you are making slow, but steady progress (m)


    Quote Originally Posted by wondering View Post
    How am I doing w/ T where it is and low SHBG?...

    Not nearly as well as I hoped when I started Test Cyp last November. I do sleep better, but still have some anxiety, low but not crippling energy, NO nocturnal erections and libido issues.

    Curious what my E2 will be when test returns and if Dr Crisler thinks that is the answer or if I have underlying Adrenal or Thyroid issues. Hopefully an adjusted course of action in the week or two ahead. Can't wait.
    I suspect E2 will be a big factor, but could be totally wrong. Despite the current issues, how far have you come from your worst point? Like you, I've never even touched, much less taken, anything. For me, however, 9 yr ago propecia could be a factor. Who knows? I do note, however, that these issues seem to be exploding. Whether it's due to increased cases, increased attention or both remains to be seen.

    I'd like to PM you, but I don't see that you accept that option. Feel free to send me one and/or a way to message you.
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    Transdermal is out. Tried 10mg Androgel and only moved my T to 320.

    You may be right about change in dosing, but my PCP is consulting w/ Dr. Crisler, so I will wait to hear what he says and follow his advice. Hopefully I'll hear something next week.


    ----
    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Just got SHBG 14 (11-80) and Total T 657 (Day 7)

    I assume that you are on weekly dose of testosterone and draw blood on day of the shot before the shot.
    Your TT & SHBG number place you at
    FreeT~190
    looking at the chart here, post #41:
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    That is about middle of desirable range (160-250)

    Going by what is in Dr Marianco's post (above Word file) I suggest that you increase frequency of your T&hcg shots
    best E2D both shots on the same day, but do not change weekly dose of T.

    second best
    E3D

    SubQ shots around navel, into fat, should slow T delivery and equalize T levels further.

    Do not change to transdermal (daily) delivery, to many variables that change with passing time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wondering View Post
    Transdermal is out. Tried 10mg Androgel and only moved my T to 320.

    You may be right about change in dosing, but my PCP is consulting w/ Dr. Crisler, so I will wait to hear what he says and follow his advice. Hopefully I'll hear something next week.


    ----
    Dr Marianco's words not mine, when speaking about low SHBG:

    More frequent dosing of testosterone may be required to stabilize levels. With testosterone cypionate or enanthate injections, dosing twice a week would be better than once a week.

    You can find them in attachment to post#10 on this thread.
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    Wow...very interesting thread. My SHBG has been low every time it's been tested (covering a span of about 2 years) and that includes times of not being on TRT (with Total T in the high 200's/low 300's) as well as full-blown T-Cyp/HCG TRT with Total T in the 800's.

    I was plagued by anxiety for years although it's been almost a non-issue since going on TRT. My SHBG is always in the teens and my total Chol is also usually low, too. Two important "risk factors", I guess?

    The body never ceases to amaze me in its complexity and power.

    Sonny
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    Hard to say; the issue is further clouded by the fact the SHBG assay is quite unreliable.
    So what essay would be very approopiate then?
    Biotestosterone be more suitable then shbg ?
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    Dr John: How about this?

    Can consistently low SHBG (and I stress consistent because of your statement that the assay can be unreliable and hence repeated draws are needed?) be a good predictor to how E2 affects a man mentally?

    It seems that some men with high E2 and middle/high SHBG experience things like bloat, itchy nips, etc.

    It seems that some men with high E2 and low SHGB are more prone to the mental problems of high E2...anxiety and depression?

    I may be way out in left field with this, but I thought I'd toss it out there.

    Sonny
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    I would very much like to see the 400page Marianco compilation. Is there a link for it? (And actually his name is Dr. Mariano, the Marianco was just a screen name...I was quickly corrected when I talked to Paulette...a "duh" on my part!)

    I see him for the first time mid month...sure hope he can straighten me out.

    Thanks for a link or file,

    Neil
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    I am still very new to TRT so why exactly would low SHBG be linked to one having emotional issues?

    My last SHBG test was on 5/3/07 and it was 13 (7-44).
    Estradiol 76 (less than 52)
    Total Test 772 (241-827)
    Free Test 2.96 (0.95-4.30)

    I would say I have always been an emotional person. I'm sure the estrogen doesn't help either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by onewaypockets View Post
    I would very much like to see the 400page Marianco compilation. Is there a link for it? (And actually his name is Dr. Mariano, the Marianco was just a screen name...I was quickly corrected when I talked to Paulette...a "duh" on my part!)

    I see him for the first time mid month...sure hope he can straighten me out.

    Thanks for a link or file,

    Neil
    Post #45
    and remember this file is courtesy of Hardasnails
    who got it from .............

    also post #55

    feel free to peruse the rest of the thread.

    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
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    OK, Dr. J, I get the low shbg can relate to emotional issue, but what can we do?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    I don't know. I just have seen it in clinical practice.
    There does indeed seem to be a correllation between low shbg and emotional issues (just ****ing great....), but what can one actually DO about it? As much as it pains me to ask this, are there things one can take to alleviate the situation? Life should be somewhat enjoyable and not a test of endurance. I am really beginning to wonder why the universe would inflict such things on people just trying to get by.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Post #45
    and remember this file is courtesy of Hardasnails
    who got it from .............

    also post #55

    feel free to peruse the rest of the thread.

    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    Thanks Jan,

    Neil
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    There does indeed seem to be a correllation between low shbg and emotional issues (just ****ing great....), but what can one actually DO about it? As much as it pains me to ask this, are there things one can take to alleviate the situation? Life should be somewhat enjoyable and not a test of endurance. I am really beginning to wonder why the universe would inflict such things on people just trying to get by.
    My take home message:

    1# SHBG is only indicator,

    2# one have to first fix the "real" problem, SHBG will then be improved

    3# even if improvement is hard to accomplish, if problem area is identified, effort should be made to keep it (the problem area) in steday level as much as possible, variation are reason for disstress.

    4# first and only identified problem area (frequently discussed on this board) is need for testosterone supplementation while SHBG is low. Weekly or less often injestions are frequent source of distress. Change to more frequent injections may solve part of the problem. Transdermals may be a better solution, assuming that thyroid problems do not create skin permiability issues.

    #5 correction of thyroid may increase SHBG
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    There does indeed seem to be a correllation between low shbg and emotional issues (just ****ing great....), but what can one actually DO about it? As much as it pains me to ask this, are there things one can take to alleviate the situation? Life should be somewhat enjoyable and not a test of endurance. I am really beginning to wonder why the universe would inflict such things on people just trying to get by.
    One more reason to never use AAS - You are guaranteed a low SHBG level.
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    So true. What stuns me is the people who read our posts & STILL want steroids.


    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    One more reason to never use anabolic steroids - You are guaranteed a low SHBG level.

    Amazing. I've never taken any, so my lower shbg may be genetic for all I know. Although--now that I seem up a creek T and hormone wise I admit a tiny portion of me said "hell, why not- how much worse could it get!" for a few seconds before my brain stepped in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    There does indeed seem to be a correllation between low shbg and emotional issues (just ****ing great....), but what can one actually DO about it? As much as it pains me to ask this, are there things one can take to alleviate the situation? Life should be somewhat enjoyable and not a test of endurance. I am really beginning to wonder why the universe would inflict such things on people just trying to get by.
    Couldn't agree more, it seems at times that my body is ready to give up. With the limited amount of energy I have, it used to just keep me going day to day. No energy for social life, which kills me because I am only 25 and want more for my life.
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