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Lab Results In, Need Help

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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLARUS View Post
    "don't take HCG"

    is that considered actionable?

    (i dont have an anti-HCG bias; i am using the substance right now actually, during a T cycle to keep my balls working...but i know my HPTA is in the gutter, otherwise i wouldnt have to plan and execute PCT)
    So, in your opinion...even if my Total Test is borderline, HCG would not really solve anything for the issues I face? I know my free T is good. Just wondering if I double my Total Test if it would solve any of my problems. I do think though you are really onto something with my problems being in the hypothalamus. I'm thinking progesterone may be the culprit, and it's robbing the small amount of DHT that I do have from asserting it's effects.

    I did a little research from steriod users who were shut down by deca due to high progesterone. Most of the comments and solutions I saw in fixing the high progesterone problem would be to use a steriod called Winstrol, which has anti-progesterone lowering effects.

    I have read a few other places that raising DHT can help lower progesterone. Besides those two things, I think the only other thing that could lower progesterone would be the birth control pill.

    So....do you guys think I should give the Winstrol a try and maybe some DHT cream also?

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    Quote Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    So, in your opinion...even if my Total Test is borderline, HCG would not really solve anything for the issues I face? I know my free T is good. Just wondering if I double my Total Test if it would solve any of my problems. I do think though you are really onto something with my problems being in the hypothalamus. I'm thinking progesterone may be the culprit, and it's robbing the small amount of DHT that I do have from asserting it's effects.

    I did a little research from steriod users who were shut down by deca due to high progesterone. Most of the comments and solutions I saw in fixing the high progesterone problem would be to use a steriod called Winstrol, which has anti-progesterone lowering effects.

    I have read a few other places that raising DHT can help lower progesterone. Besides those two things, I think the only other thing that could lower progesterone would be the birth control pill.

    So....do you guys think I should give the Winstrol a try and maybe some DHT cream also?
    DHT cream is an interesting idea...mainly because DHT is not known to be suppressive. another option is proviron, which is 1-methyl-DHT, and acts very much like it...easier than rubbing a cream in, plus cheaper and more available. supposedly doesnt suppress the HPTA (perhaps because of its anti-estrogenic effects)

    i wonder why more of your rather abundant free T isnt converting to DHT....i really am inclined to think the Pr is binding to it, but i could be totally wrong.

    so no other OTC meds or anything else? you're 100% clean?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLARUS View Post
    DHT cream is an interesting idea...mainly because DHT is not known to be suppressive. another option is proviron, which is 1-methyl-DHT, and acts very much like it...easier than rubbing a cream in, plus cheaper and more available. supposedly doesnt suppress the HPTA (perhaps because of its anti-estrogenic effects)

    i wonder why more of your rather abundant free T isnt converting to DHT....i really am inclined to think the Pr is binding to it, but i could be totally wrong.

    so no other OTC meds or anything else? you're 100% clean?
    No other meds. I'm actually pretty healthy and try to work out as often as I can.

    In regards to progesterone, I have heard that many finasteride users have issues with high progesterone / low DHT also. I feel there could be something to this theory. I'm going to look into buying some Proviron and also maybe some Winstrol. I want to do more research on the Winstrol though since it's a steriod. The last thing I want is to be shut down from taking it. If this is the case, then maybe I should do a trial run while I'm still on the HCG to ensure that this doesn't happen. You guys have been such a great help! I have been battling with this for many years now and hopefully I'm getting closer to finding some resolve.
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    Quote Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    No other meds. I'm actually pretty healthy and try to work out as often as I can.

    In regards to progesterone, I have heard that many finasteride users have issues with high progesterone / low DHT also. I feel there could be something to this theory. I'm going to look into buying some Proviron and also maybe some Winstrol. I want to do more research on the Winstrol though since it's a steriod. The last thing I want is to be shut down from taking it. If this is the case, then maybe I should do a trial run while I'm still on the HCG to ensure that this doesn't happen. You guys have been such a great help! I have been battling with this for many years now and hopefully I'm getting closer to finding some resolve.
    You could also try some Activate Xtreme, it's natural and bloodwork has shown to boost DHT levels by 50%. I can recommend it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterMind View Post
    You could also try some Activate Xtreme, it's natural and bloodwork has shown to boost DHT levels by 50%. I can recommend it.

    Thanks bro, I will look into it. I'm saving up to buy some dht cream, proviron (dht in pill form), and some winstrol. I'll save the winstrol for last because I don't want to shut down my natural test. Many people make the claims that dht cream isn't suppressive, so I'll go that route first. If anyone knows of any other methods to lower progesterone, please comment in this thread.

    As others have stated here and the working hypothesis so far is that my high progesterone levels are suppressing my sex drive & it's counteracting with my already low dht level. This is the only thing that makes sense because my free T is good & I'm one of the stronger guys in the gym also. Test. obviously is not the problem, but the low dht along with the suppression from progesterone. I'm guessing that my progesterone levels are 2-3 times higher than the medium range I need to be in. I think my situation is unique, I have searched these forums and done google searches and haven't found too many others in a situation similiar to mine. Steriod users who haven't recovered from using Deca (which can cause high progesterone) are in the same boat I think. I wish there was some kind of medication though besides some birth control pills that lower progesterone. I'm stuck with taking DHT for now to see how much it will balance out the high progesterone. Any other comments would be appreciated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    In regards to progesterone, I have heard that many finasteride users have issues with high progesterone / low DHT also. I feel there could be something to this theory. I'm going to look into buying some Proviron and also maybe some Winstrol. I want to do more research on the Winstrol though since it's a steriod. The last thing I want is to be shut down from taking it. If this is the case, then maybe I should do a trial run while I'm still on the HCG to ensure that this doesn't happen. You guys have been such a great help! I have been battling with this for many years now and hopefully I'm getting closer to finding some resolve.
    winstrol is suppressive. it is purported as an anti-progesterone, but that's generally while on a progestin cycle of steroids (deca, tren), when the user acknowledges that they're already completely shut down and it doesnt matter.

    what about bromocriptine or cabergoline for the progesterone/prolactin? have you researched them?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLARUS View Post
    winstrol is suppressive. it is purported as an anti-progesterone, but that's generally while on a progestin cycle of steroids (deca, tren), when the user acknowledges that they're already completely shut down and it doesnt matter.

    what about bromocriptine or cabergoline for the progesterone/prolactin? have you researched them?
    I have tried both and I really didn't feel much different. Are those supposed to lower progesterone also? I thought they were mainly for prolactin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    I have tried both and I really didn't feel much different. Are those supposed to lower progesterone also? I thought they were mainly for prolactin.
    how long did you run them for? and when, in relation to your bloodwork?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLARUS View Post
    how long did you run them for? and when, in relation to your bloodwork?
    Ran after bloodwork for a few weeks, but gave up after they didn't really have an effect on me. I did some research last night and found that the majority of people were saying that they have no effect on progesterone. It seemed to run around 75% who had that opinion. So, it looks like I'm still in the clear with progesterone as a problem for me. I'm wondering how much my high progesterone is cancelling out my already low DHT? It could be that my body really feels no effects from DHT with the high progesterone, just a guess. This is why I feel no sex drive at all and persistence 'numbness' down there so to speak. Thanks for keeping up on my thread with the good advice you have given me. Any other comments are greatly appreciated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post

    How are your sleep patterns?

    what time you goto bed and wake up

    do you work night shift or work at a night club late at night?

    How much sun you get each day

    Do you wake up feeling refreshed?

    Do you sleep sound or toss and turn each night and have a
    hard time getting to sleep

    What is your eating habits like

    what time do you workout and how long how often?

    Do you take a good multivitamin (ZMA may help before bed time)

    Are you happy with your life

    Any family or stresful events in your life in past 6 months

    have you had any infection in last 6 months
    i'd like to see these questions answered, too...it seems like an odd coincidence that all three stress hormones are high...

    often times with the prolactin-lowering drugs, a) they take several weeks to do their job, and b) libido increase can lag behind a just-corrected hormone situation, ie. it isnt always instantaneous. there's really very little you have to lose by taking a course of bromo or dostinex for 2 months or so and see what happens.

    i would drop the HCG if you havent already - it's only going to continue giving the exact WRONG feedback to your hypothalamus (that is, it's flooding you with T that your body will see and want to decrease...)

    wait, you werent on HCG when you were tested, were you?

    i wish you could find a really good endo...we are all just shooting from the hip here (not that he/she wouldnt...), but it'd be nice to be able to get what you need to troubleshoot this, legally...
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLARUS View Post
    i'd like to see these questions answered, too...it seems like an odd coincidence that all three stress hormones are high...

    often times with the prolactin-lowering drugs, a) they take several weeks to do their job, and b) libido increase can lag behind a just-corrected hormone situation, ie. it isnt always instantaneous. there's really very little you have to lose by taking a course of bromo or dostinex for 2 months or so and see what happens.

    i would drop the HCG if you havent already - it's only going to continue giving the exact WRONG feedback to your hypothalamus (that is, it's flooding you with T that your body will see and want to decrease...)

    wait, you werent on HCG when you were tested, were you?

    i wish you could find a really good endo...we are all just shooting from the hip here (not that he/she wouldnt...), but it'd be nice to be able to get what you need to troubleshoot this, legally...
    Thanks bro, I appreciate the help. I'll take your advice and continue dostinex for 2 months. I also stopped HCG and feel much better. I'm hoping that dht is the key to lowering the progesterone while raising my levels of natural dht at the same time. It's the last thing I could think of. If that doesn't work, then I guess I'll be saving up for testing in different areas that I have not touched. As far as the questions above, I don't feel I have any issues. I'm pretty healthy. I eat well and work out often. I get plenty of sun. I don't often get overly stressed either. I beleive my hormones were altered somehow after abusing marijuana and alcohol. Before that, I had an amazing libido. After the drugs, my libido totally dropped off. It was the wrost mistake I have ever made in my life. I guess my body was extra sensitive to what I was putting in my body at the time. Now I am paying the price for it.
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    Update on my progress....

    I bought and tried Andractim DHT gel and did a 10 day trial. Again, I had no luck and feeling very frusterated right now. I though that this would have helped my already low DHT levels and would have combated the high progesterone issues I may be facing. All it did was give me bad brain fog.

    The only thing left is maybe a testesterone deffiency. Although my TT test is kinda low, my free T is mid range. I'm wondering if TT needs to be almost double anyway to reach some kind of threshold to regain my sex drive. I have read numerous places that marijuana and alcohol can lower testosterone. I'm wondering if this is why my LH and FSH are very low.

    If anyone can chime in with some advice, that would be great. I'm just not sure what to do next.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLARUS View Post
    i'd like to see these questions answered, too...it seems like an odd coincidence that all three stress hormones are high...

    often times with the prolactin-lowering drugs, a) they take several weeks to do their job, and b) libido increase can lag behind a just-corrected hormone situation, ie. it isnt always instantaneous. there's really very little you have to lose by taking a course of bromo or dostinex for 2 months or so and see what happens.

    i would drop the HCG if you havent already - it's only going to continue giving the exact WRONG feedback to your hypothalamus (that is, it's flooding you with T that your body will see and want to decrease...)

    wait, you werent on HCG when you were tested, were you?

    i wish you could find a really good endo...we are all just shooting from the hip here (not that he/she wouldnt...), but it'd be nice to be able to get what you need to troubleshoot this, legally...
    SOLARUS,

    What s your suggestion for those whose LH is low? You say that HCG is not correct procedure, then which one to use?
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    Quote Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    Update on my progress....

    I bought and tried Andractim DHT gel and did a 10 day trial. Again, I had no luck and feeling very frusterated right now. I though that this would have helped my already low DHT levels and would have combated the high progesterone issues I may be facing. All it did was give me bad brain fog.

    The only thing left is maybe a testesterone deffiency. Although my TT test is kinda low, my free T is mid range. I'm wondering if TT needs to be almost double anyway to reach some kind of threshold to regain my sex drive. I have read numerous places that marijuana and alcohol can lower testosterone. I'm wondering if this is why my LH and FSH are very low.

    If anyone can chime in with some advice, that would be great. I'm just not sure what to do next.
    Although my TT test is kinda low, my free T is mid range.
    ------------------------
    For that to be true you would have to have very low SHBG.

    Most likely you are relyng on bad FreeT test results.

    Get TT, SHBG and dr Shippen's chart, post #41
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-...oodtest-2.html

    If your FreeT is 160 or more, you are in acceptable range.
    Best is to be closer to 300.
    ...................
    When you get your FreeT in good range,
    and DHT close to top range, Prolactin in check,
    next big influence is Estradiol.
    You want to have "ultrasensitive Estradiol" test preferably at Quest, secondarily at LabCorp.

    With that test at hand, you want to be 15-30, but best guidance is by nightly erections.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkblue1 View Post
    SOLARUS,

    What s your suggestion for those whose LH is low? You say that HCG is not correct procedure, then which one to use?
    if a person's TT is high but LH is next to nothing, then the testes are working fine...that person should focus on the hypothalamus and find out what is suppressing its release of LH.

    HCG might help in the short term by forcing more T out of the testes, but it will not produce any permanent correction because the hypothalamus will be even more suppressed, due to the 'excessively' high T.

    if after extensive investigation, no cause is found for the super low LH, then HCG might be a proper course of action (in fact, better than T shots, as the subject still has functioning testes and might as well use them and keep their normal sack size...plus the shots are easier), but it will likely then be a lifetime thing.

    JMO, i'm no doctor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLARUS View Post
    if a person's TT is high but LH is next to nothing, then the testes are working fine...that person should focus on the hypothalamus and find out what is suppressing its release of LH.

    HCG might help in the short term by forcing more T out of the testes, but it will not produce any permanent correction because the hypothalamus will be even more suppressed, due to the 'excessively' high T.

    if after extensive investigation, no cause is found for the super low LH, then HCG might be a proper course of action (in fact, better than T shots, as the subject still has functioning testes and might as well use them and keep their normal sack size...plus the shots are easier), but it will likely then be a lifetime thing.

    JMO, i'm no doctor.


    Will HCG bring the size back even though we dont know the reason why size became small.BTW I have bilateral varicoceles and low LH . Doctor could not find the reaosn why hypothalamus not working properly.I was never on steroids.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLARUS View Post
    if a person's TT is high but LH is next to nothing, then the testes are working fine...that person should focus on the hypothalamus and find out what is suppressing its release of LH.
    HCG might help in the short term by forcing more T out of the testes, but it will not produce any permanent correction because the hypothalamus will be even more suppressed, due to the 'excessively' high T.

    if after extensive investigation, no cause is found for the super low LH, then HCG might be a proper course of action (in fact, better than T shots, as the subject still has functioning testes and might as well use them and keep their normal sack size...plus the shots are easier), but it will likely then be a lifetime thing.

    JMO, i'm no doctor.
    What are the known remedies for increasing low LH?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLARUS View Post
    if a person's TT is high but LH is next to nothing, then the testes are working fine...that person should focus on the hypothalamus and find out what is suppressing its release of LH.

    HCG might help in the short term by forcing more T out of the testes, but it will not produce any permanent correction because the hypothalamus will be even more suppressed, due to the 'excessively' high T.

    if after extensive investigation, no cause is found for the super low LH, then HCG might be a proper course of action (in fact, better than T shots, as the subject still has functioning testes and might as well use them and keep their normal sack size...plus the shots are easier), but it will likely then be a lifetime thing.

    JMO, i'm no doctor.
    I assume my testes are working fine, but what if they are converting at the wrong ratios? I suspect that my high progesterone is overpowring effects of Test & low DHT. Adding HCG will further suppress because it will produce excess progesterone also. I'm wonder if TRT would remedy this where I get more Testesterone and less of the other things like progesterone. What do you think?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Although my TT test is kinda low, my free T is mid range.
    ------------------------
    For that to be true you would have to have very low SHBG.

    Most likely you are relyng on bad FreeT test results.

    Get TT, SHBG and dr Shippen's chart, post #41
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-...oodtest-2.html

    If your FreeT is 160 or more, you are in acceptable range.
    Best is to be closer to 300.
    ...................
    When you get your FreeT in good range,
    and DHT close to top range, Prolactin in check,
    next big influence is Estradiol.
    You want to have "ultrasensitive Estradiol" test preferably at Quest, secondarily at LabCorp.

    With that test at hand, you want to be 15-30, but best guidance is by nightly erections.
    My SHBG is 13 (13-71 range)

    On Dr. Shippens chart, bioavailable Test was right around 300. What is your opinion if doubling TT? I could go from 479 to say the 800-900 range. My Free T was middle of range, so that would double also to be at top of range or slightly over. Do you think I could try a three week trial of say 100 mg Depot T a week SubQ for 3 weeks to see if any change in libido occurs? I could restart with clomid if I really didn't feel much of a difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    My SHBG is 13 (13-71 range)

    On Dr. Shippens chart, bioavailable Test was right around 300. What is your opinion if doubling TT? I could go from 479 to say the 800-900 range. My Free T was middle of range, so that would double also to be at top of range or slightly over. Do you think I could try a three week trial of say 100 mg Depot T a week SubQ for 3 weeks to see if any change in libido occurs? I could restart with clomid if I really didn't feel much of a difference.
    You have to change your mind set first, we do not do cycles and restarts. What we do if for life.

    Then you will do relatively extensive blood test so you can possibly figure out your problem.
    You also have to forget that clomid exist.
    Dr Shippen's chart is not dealing with BioAvailableTestosterone.
    Spend some time on this and other boards, wery helpfull.

    Having this type of health problem is a life long story.
    The sooner you learn how to properly deal with those problems the better for you body and your mental status/stresses.
    .
    .
    With SHBG=13
    you need minimum TT=510
    and no more than TT=900

    If you are near 510, testosterone may not be your problem.
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    Your DHT is a problem as well as your prolactin and cortisol. You can straighten out the DHT issue with some proviron but I'm not sure how you fix the prolactin and cortisol issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brentf13 View Post
    Your DHT is a problem as well as your prolactin and cortisol. You can straighten out the DHT issue with some proviron but I'm not sure how you fix the prolactin and cortisol issues.
    My morning cortisol was at the top of the range, isn't that supposed to be good? Doesn't cortisol lower throughout the day also? I have heard that very high levels of cortisol overpowers the uptake of free T, thus causing loss of libido. I'm not sure if cortisol is a problem for me though. I'm guessing my high progesterone levels are robbing me of feeling the effects of T. The only thing that I can think of to counteract this is to double my current T level of 479 to the 800-900 region. Maybe at that point then T can assert its affects on libido and combat the supression I'm feeling from high progesterone. Raising T will also increase dopamine and help counteract against the top of the range prolactin. There's nothing really that I can take that would lower progesterone since no drugs exist for that. I'm possibly stuck with the fact that my testes are producing ok test, but maybe at the wrong ratios. It's just a theory and I could be wrong, but it's the only thing I could think of right now. I may have to end up saving up more money so I can go see Dr. John. My options are running out in trying to figure out what's wrong with me. You guys have been a great help here.
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    Have your family Dr order a Rhein 24 hour urine hormone profile and once you receive the results send them to Crisler for evaluation. He doesn't use blood labs anymore because they're to inaccurate. You might be surprised to see the difference on the 24 hour labs. Having done several sets of blood labs I can say my 24 hour labs matched way better with how I was feeling. Crisler will work with your family Dr as a consultant.
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    Just an update......

    Just saw Dr. John and he said that I'm going to be one of his harder cases. Great, just my luck! Anyway, he thinks from looking at my labs that high progesterone is the main cause for my lack of of libido. He also thinks my DHT is probably too low since it's below bottom of range. He wants me to do a Rhein urine test before he makes any decisions about what to do. He thinks my Test production is ok, but needs to figure out how to 'run' down or overcome powerful feminizing effects of progesterone. It's a tricky situation, so he said he's not quite sure the best approach to take yet and wants to see results from urine test before making any decisions. I may be heading for test. cream, even though my test production is ok. Does anyone have any advice or comments? Any other possible angles or options I might have at this point?
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    bump....is there anyone that can help me asnwer the above in regards to high progesterone? Can I do anything to keep myself off Test replacement in terms of overruning or lowering progesterone? Can raising T3 or manipulating thyroid hormones do anything to combat high progesterone...any relation at all? This high progesterone is ruining my life!
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