Lab Results In, Need Help
- 05-14-2008, 02:16 AM
Here are some additional labs done in the last 8 months:
TSH - 7.07 (.40 -4.50 miU/L)
T3 Total - 92 (60 - 181 ng/dl)
T4 Total - 5.3 (4.5 - 12.5 mcg/dl)
Thyroid Peeroxide Antibodies - <10 (35 IU/ml)
Triglycerides - 230 (<150 mg/dl)
Cholestorol, Total - 192 (125 - 200 mg/dl)
HDL Cholestorol - 55
LDL Cholestorol - 91
Testosterone, Total - 465 (241 - 827 ng/dl)
TSH 4.79 (0.35 - 5.5)
Free T3 3.1 (2.3 - 4.2)
T4 4.6 (4.5 - 12.0)
Free T4 1.21 (.61 - 1.76)
Antithyroglobulin Ab <20 (0 - 40)
Prolactin 17.1 (2.1 - 17.7)
What do you guys think? I tried Armour Thryoid for about 2 weeks and only felt a difference in energy, but nothing major. Still did nothing for libido. It's like I feel nothing down there at all, as if something is suppressing any 'feeling'. Wondering if it's either too low Total Test (even though free T is good!) & low DHT. If progesterone is having a suppressing affect, could raising DHT counterbalance progesterone, thus lowering it? I have read that DHT can lower both progesterone & E2. Does this sound plausable? What about other progesterone lowering drugs such as Winstrol? Any ideas guys?
- 05-14-2008, 02:23 AM
Thanks again for the advice! This actually all came about from many years of heavy marijuana abuse. I have heard that marijuana can increase prolactin, but not sure about progesterone. I used to have a raging libido when I was younger, now I feel nothing after the years of smoking pot. I'm wondering if this drastically affected brain chemistry, thus causing some kind of hormonal imbalance. I have tried dostinex, but it didn't do anything for me. I'm wondering what other options I have.
05-14-2008, 02:28 AM
05-14-2008, 02:30 PM
your total and free T are fine enough - you should have some libido if that's all we look at. your SHBG is also low, which of course contributes to that (although the extent is hotly debated)...HOW this is, given your ridiculously low LH and FSH, is frankly beyond me. the DHT gives me concerns, because it is really low....and the more i think about it, it's probably a big cause of your problems. i know that whenever i use finasteride, it absolutely slaughters my libido...even if i use it on a test cycle, i am basically back to baseline libido-wise. treating the DHT issue is tricky, because the reality is that IT is not the root of your problems.
i am trying to sort out how low DHT and high stress hormones interact...i know that progesterone binds to 5AR, possibly more strongly than T does, and it may be "stealing" the conversion and robbing you of DHT...but i could be wrong.
here's an excerpt from a pubmed investigation regarding prolactin response to stress...(it gives a bunch of other refs):
It is clear that prolactin secretion is dramatically affected by "stress." A myriad of stresses have been used to characterize such effects on prolactin secretion. These include, but are not limited to, the following: ether stress (116, 667, 866, 876, 893, 1077, 1105, 1200, 1257, 1296, 1913), restraint stress (416, 590, 598, 883, 923, 944, 1446), thermal stress (1782a), hemorrhage (274, 883), social conflict (817), and even academic stress in humans (1108).
i think all 3 of the hormones you have in excess can be excreted by the adrenal glands, so that might be a clue...
wish i could help more....i'd do some more research if i had time.
05-14-2008, 03:20 PM
Your antibodies are low, ok
Your Free T3 3.1 (2.3 - 4.2)
yes, you can add a little Armour Thyroid, but it is not that bad as is.
So while we are waiting for SOLARUS to come with some idea about Prolactin............
I see possibility in exploring HCG.
For the next 4 weeks do HCG injection, 2x per week.
Injection size 1500iu
On end of 4 week period, 48 hours after the HCG shot, draw blood. You keep doing your HCG shots while you are waiting for test results and any follow up decission.
Do these tests at Quest Diagnostics, blood drawn at Quest.
Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)
If you cant get tests at Quest, speak up, I will rewrite the request.
Search for a doctor that deal with Genova Diagnostics.
You can call them, give your zip code they will e-mail you a list.
If you have money, I can add few more items to your blood test.
05-14-2008, 04:49 PM
05-14-2008, 04:57 PM
05-14-2008, 05:00 PM
05-14-2008, 06:34 PM
05-15-2008, 04:03 AM
05-15-2008, 04:15 AM
I did a little research from steriod users who were shut down by deca due to high progesterone. Most of the comments and solutions I saw in fixing the high progesterone problem would be to use a steriod called Winstrol, which has anti-progesterone lowering effects.
I have read a few other places that raising DHT can help lower progesterone. Besides those two things, I think the only other thing that could lower progesterone would be the birth control pill.
So....do you guys think I should give the Winstrol a try and maybe some DHT cream also?
05-15-2008, 10:57 AM
i wonder why more of your rather abundant free T isnt converting to DHT....i really am inclined to think the Pr is binding to it, but i could be totally wrong.
so no other OTC meds or anything else? you're 100% clean?
05-15-2008, 02:56 PM
In regards to progesterone, I have heard that many finasteride users have issues with high progesterone / low DHT also. I feel there could be something to this theory. I'm going to look into buying some Proviron and also maybe some Winstrol. I want to do more research on the Winstrol though since it's a steriod. The last thing I want is to be shut down from taking it. If this is the case, then maybe I should do a trial run while I'm still on the HCG to ensure that this doesn't happen. You guys have been such a great help! I have been battling with this for many years now and hopefully I'm getting closer to finding some resolve.
06-03-2008, 09:57 PM
06-03-2008, 10:25 PM
Thanks bro, I will look into it. I'm saving up to buy some dht cream, proviron (dht in pill form), and some winstrol. I'll save the winstrol for last because I don't want to shut down my natural test. Many people make the claims that dht cream isn't suppressive, so I'll go that route first. If anyone knows of any other methods to lower progesterone, please comment in this thread.
As others have stated here and the working hypothesis so far is that my high progesterone levels are suppressing my sex drive & it's counteracting with my already low dht level. This is the only thing that makes sense because my free T is good & I'm one of the stronger guys in the gym also. Test. obviously is not the problem, but the low dht along with the suppression from progesterone. I'm guessing that my progesterone levels are 2-3 times higher than the medium range I need to be in. I think my situation is unique, I have searched these forums and done google searches and haven't found too many others in a situation similiar to mine. Steriod users who haven't recovered from using Deca (which can cause high progesterone) are in the same boat I think. I wish there was some kind of medication though besides some birth control pills that lower progesterone. I'm stuck with taking DHT for now to see how much it will balance out the high progesterone. Any other comments would be appreciated.
06-04-2008, 08:56 PM
what about bromocriptine or cabergoline for the progesterone/prolactin? have you researched them?
06-05-2008, 03:26 AM
06-05-2008, 09:21 PM
06-05-2008, 10:34 PM
06-06-2008, 01:48 AM
often times with the prolactin-lowering drugs, a) they take several weeks to do their job, and b) libido increase can lag behind a just-corrected hormone situation, ie. it isnt always instantaneous. there's really very little you have to lose by taking a course of bromo or dostinex for 2 months or so and see what happens.
i would drop the HCG if you havent already - it's only going to continue giving the exact WRONG feedback to your hypothalamus (that is, it's flooding you with T that your body will see and want to decrease...)
wait, you werent on HCG when you were tested, were you?
i wish you could find a really good endo...we are all just shooting from the hip here (not that he/she wouldnt...), but it'd be nice to be able to get what you need to troubleshoot this, legally...
06-06-2008, 02:56 AM
07-07-2008, 03:11 AM
Update on my progress....
I bought and tried Andractim DHT gel and did a 10 day trial. Again, I had no luck and feeling very frusterated right now. I though that this would have helped my already low DHT levels and would have combated the high progesterone issues I may be facing. All it did was give me bad brain fog.
The only thing left is maybe a testesterone deffiency. Although my TT test is kinda low, my free T is mid range. I'm wondering if TT needs to be almost double anyway to reach some kind of threshold to regain my sex drive. I have read numerous places that marijuana and alcohol can lower testosterone. I'm wondering if this is why my LH and FSH are very low.
If anyone can chime in with some advice, that would be great. I'm just not sure what to do next.
07-07-2008, 09:55 AM
07-07-2008, 10:45 AM
For that to be true you would have to have very low SHBG.
Most likely you are relyng on bad FreeT test results.
Get TT, SHBG and dr Shippen's chart, post #41
If your FreeT is 160 or more, you are in acceptable range.
Best is to be closer to 300.
When you get your FreeT in good range,
and DHT close to top range, Prolactin in check,
next big influence is Estradiol.
You want to have "ultrasensitive Estradiol" test preferably at Quest, secondarily at LabCorp.
With that test at hand, you want to be 15-30, but best guidance is by nightly erections.
07-07-2008, 01:31 PM
HCG might help in the short term by forcing more T out of the testes, but it will not produce any permanent correction because the hypothalamus will be even more suppressed, due to the 'excessively' high T.
if after extensive investigation, no cause is found for the super low LH, then HCG might be a proper course of action (in fact, better than T shots, as the subject still has functioning testes and might as well use them and keep their normal sack size...plus the shots are easier), but it will likely then be a lifetime thing.
JMO, i'm no doctor.
07-07-2008, 01:40 PM
07-07-2008, 04:27 PM
07-07-2008, 05:59 PM
07-07-2008, 06:04 PM
On Dr. Shippens chart, bioavailable Test was right around 300. What is your opinion if doubling TT? I could go from 479 to say the 800-900 range. My Free T was middle of range, so that would double also to be at top of range or slightly over. Do you think I could try a three week trial of say 100 mg Depot T a week SubQ for 3 weeks to see if any change in libido occurs? I could restart with clomid if I really didn't feel much of a difference.
07-07-2008, 06:38 PM
Then you will do relatively extensive blood test so you can possibly figure out your problem.
You also have to forget that clomid exist.
Dr Shippen's chart is not dealing with BioAvailableTestosterone.
Spend some time on this and other boards, wery helpfull.
Having this type of health problem is a life long story.
The sooner you learn how to properly deal with those problems the better for you body and your mental status/stresses.
you need minimum TT=510
and no more than TT=900
If you are near 510, testosterone may not be your problem.
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