- 07-23-2007, 04:04 PM
Currently TRT I am taking
1.50 mgs T cyp every 3 days 1/2 inch quad
2. ADEX - on hold now to see if erections comeback due to possible low e2 normally .5 every day of shot
3. 1/2 grain armour and 12.5 mcgs t3 BID away fom calcium and iron
4. 25 mgs DHEA
5. Pregenenolone creame - shoudl i start out with 50 mgs daily or right to 100 mgs (have thyroid and low cholesterol)
6 5 mgs cortef 3 times a day
zinc 60 - 80 mgs
calcium 1200 mgs
magnesium glycinate -800 mgs
methylcobalimn - 5,000 mcg - supports undermethyation
folinic acid -4000 mcgs BID - supports undermetylation
TMG - 1000 BID - aids in liver detoxifcation
gaba - 500 mgs BID - supports relaxation
p5p - 50 mgs BID -
Theanine -200 mgs BID - helps relax
5htp -200 mgs before bed aids own melatonin production
iodorol 25 mgs BID - verified through testing
vitamin D - 2000 ius BID
calium d glucuarate - 500 BID
niacin - 500 BID for support of elevated lp(a) which most likely is linked to estrogen imbalance (high or low)
vitamin c ester 1000 BID
NAC 600 mgs BID
moly- 150 - aids in homocysteine metabolism and uric acid
4 beta hcl with meals - aids in break down of proteins
1 oxbile before meal - fat malabsorption and cholesterol assimulation
iron chelated 50 mgs - ferritin came out to be 40 (thyroid related.)
manganese 50 mgs balance iron, and zinc
1 tsp fish oils BID - aids estrogen metabolism
1 EPO BID
lysine 3000 mgs - elevated lpa
1/2 tsp celtic sea salt
Since being on last protcol I was feeling good untill I got to the 3 week. I do not know if my e2 is kicking up or if it is going down that is magical question. I feel like a mindless zombie no emotions at all, and gaining fat not even trying, constipated as all can be and stomach is all bloated out and no desire to eat..Funny how my copper serum finally started to come up with rise of estrogen and not even taking copper via supplement. I found this amazing discovery and it is noted on birth control pills that it may raise copper serums. I am having unusal muscle spasms and twitched which could be related to calcium, magnesium, potassium imbalances. IF I could just resolve this nasty constipation it will help alleviate alot of discomfort and undue stress on my liver as well as increase estrogen metabolism.. I know its not fiber related or not from drinking not enough water. i take in 25-35 grams of fiber with blueberries, hempseeds, veggies, brocoolli, buckwheat ect and drink 3 quarts of water a day (1 gallon).
Diet is all low glycmic carbs, lean proteins, EFAs, cocconut oil, veggies, ect. Every thing is on target. I goto bed by 10-11 each night and sit and mediate or listen to relaxing music an hour before going to bed to unwind (so stress is not a factor). On many urine test it shows that I have low gaba and also low serotonin levels despite using 5 htp, sam-e, mangeisum, vitamin D , ect. For some reason serotonin is not being turned over and when I researched this too much or not enough e2 could produce the same results. Having consitant low homocysteine levels for extended time (<5) concern one of the drs I was working with because it identified that my detoxification could be severely affected mainly gluthione levels which where low on WBC testing. How ever e2 can increase gluthione levels due to its protective mechanism in the brain, but if too much it can depelte them as well due to oxidative stress. A neat thing was that I always had elevated rt3 it was not untill I added hcg and armidex to the mix that they actually started to lower them as well as increased my zinc levels as well. This shows that increase of progesterone was mostlikely resolved my low zinc levels as well as zinc defiecncy is directly related to rt3 as well..I began this journal as a learning expreince of dos and don't during TRT. Right now all DIM has been cut for past 3 weeks and on 4 th week I am going to test being on iodoral 50mgs for 2 months about its impact on e2 metabolism. iodine dioes the same thing as DIm does but if there is a chance of androgen down regulation this will not happen with iodine..But these avenues need to be futher explored before some kind of out come is determined. ALL I know that stoping the DIM and doing the iodone my piss really still stinks liek it did on the dim but more so its all the time and not only in the morning from the DIM..This is very promising news !
What can I expect from the preg creame seeing that I am low thyroid with low cholesterol..And will this actually alter some of the meds I may be taking as well.
- 07-23-2007, 04:25 PM
When I was low thyroid I was very constipated too, despite taking in lots of fiber. Your bloating sounds like hypo too. Hypo slows bowel transit time, it just slows everything.
Are your adrenals supported enough to increase your Armour? When I started taking Armour, I started going twice a day...
- 07-23-2007, 05:07 PM
I also have low GABA and low Serotonin. Dopamine was also low. This was one of the first tests (through Sanesco) that Dr Mariano ordered for me last year when I initially saw him.
I've been on Klonopin (which enhances GABA) for a long time. I've tried to get off of it several times, but the insomnia always returns.
How well does that supplemental GABA work for you?
I haven't run any neurotransmitter urine tests since going on the Dr Mariano + Dr John protocol, but I'm pretty sure that the levels have improved because I feel a lot better.
I hope the pregenolone creame will help balance out specific hormone pathways when I was on T, AI and HCG I was on top of the world, but could never get a good reading on E2 when i was feeling good, but now I am doing it the right way from ground zero filling in the holes with dhea and pregenelone and might increase my t levels. getting all levels check in a week or so before going to see my dr ..
What was your FreeT3 before you started Armour.
If you were defficient before you most likey will get to 2 or 3 grains befroe you can think of slowing down.
Looking at the test you have send me
I do not know how they got this range.
In our discussions the goal is (160-250) close to the top better.
I would say stay at your current 50mg each shot and E3D schedule. That should be 25units on syringe if test is 200mg/mL
When you add hcg that may change.
Your Lipoprotein (a)=127 that is not even funny, do something about it. Do something about.
Your whloe methylation sucs.
Do lots of quality testing in this area, correct what you can.
I don't think I could remember to take all the things on your list!
Wow... I think I'd need a secretary just to keep track of all that!
More seriously, with all those supplements, have you considered the possible interactions? Also, with that many things it's tough to isolate any one area that needs attention.
I am on 1 grain of armour a day ..I want to see if reverse t3 is going to rise on me till I increase it. If reverse t3 are high then zinc would be low again due to low progesterone levels no doubt . After 2 years of unredolved lowering reverse t-3 with time rleased t-3 it finally reduced when I adde hcg and regular t-3, lowered the estrogen increasing the progesterone to aid in increased absoprton of zinc from the digestion tract, also to arachadonic acid over load aids in intesinal uptake of zinc as well.
I know my methyation sucks estrogen is at core of that too
estrogen deifeincy or excess can cause hypomethylation
using folinic acid, methy b-12, TMG, creatine, choline may add sam-e but after estrogen urine test which checks methylations
ft 3 2.9 (2.3-4.2)
test is at 100 mg/ml dr is out of town for a week
Ok if one has low thyroid, low cholesterol and uses hcg when pregnenolone is low then could the hcg actually reduce the pregnenolone made by the body because of activating the enzyme to increase progesterone and actually result in lowering the cholesterol level it self..I just started 100 mgs topical pregenlone will check dhea levels in up coming blood tests. This should help to back fill the foundation that I think using hcg took away..plausible theory is that hcg actually caused reduction in over cholesterol level?
Very well- havn't posted yet, but here is the short version:
Visit went well--a very pleasant and well informed man who much appreciated my detailed history. The more you give him and the more accurate it is, the better a job he can do. I got a slight impression that he'd prefer his patients not do a thorough dissection of his work on the net, so I'll abide by his apparent wishes and hit the high points, which he didn't seem to have a problem with. One of the main reasons is that "whenever one patient reads about another patient getting something they all want it!".
He was not too concerned with my low shbg of 10 and thought thay my 8-9 yr old use of Propecia could be a factor, with the use of paxil/wellbutrin a final straw, so to speak. Nobody can say if they were prescribed for what I now realize was low T or if they caused it. Propecia, a/k/a finistaride, is a known cause of problems in some.
He does not in any way treat merely to get a number, but indicates that treatment is highly dependent on the individual. Damn-- it was good to see a man actually practice medicine and not be beholden to drug companies or long outdated dogma. He tries to juggle a variety of disciplines from endo to uro to simple GP issues. He earns his respect.
Here is what we are trying; hcg 3x/wk with blood in another month. That's it so far, which is OK by me. We're going to start slow and build upon whatever results appear. He also suggested a neurotransmitter work up (this is new to me....) to see what's up there. Insulin resistance is a "possible" factor, but less so due to my regular exercise. Can't say what came first, low T or insulin issues. Gotta break the cycle somehow and hopefully hcg is the ticket. I have put my faith and trust in this man--which I believe will pan out well. My biggest issue is what we'll do with he retires as he's got to be in his mid-late 50s or so.
Now, all I gotta do is get used to injecting myself, all the while I wonder if the hcg will work and if so, how long before I see results.
not sure if they can get also progesterone, if not
LEF sells progesterone cream (ProFem)
Probably fish oil 3 or 5x recomended dose every day.
And do not kill any estrogen, no AI.
Carlson's Very Finest Fish Oil.
Instead, like everybody takes one table spoon, you take five.
Cook with coconut oil.
Test all my risk factors on the list.
C-reactive protein CRP
Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A)
Vit E (all of them)
CoQ10 lot of it
After you know the other risk factors, we will be able to focus.
Goal: by restoring hormone balance I can reduce alot of supplementation for brain chemistry eventually stop them all together
preg - progesterone - increases gaba and sertonin (both found deficient on urine tests while ago)-
dhea - influences serotonin levels
To increase progesterone - maca could also be used..
With last estroidial reading of 73 AI is needed untill estrogen imbalances is identified ..
I have a feeling that the hcg was driving e2 up previously
co enzyme q 10 is at 300 mgs a day q sorb form
carlsons It saids teaspoons for servings and I am doing 2 tsp a day. With low gluthione one has to watch for increased lipid perioxation from too much oils. I know vitamin E can protect us from it thats for sure..Before going shot gunning fish oils I need to see what my blood RBC of Arachoncdonic acids/ EPA is to make sure they are balanced. This is what got me in trouble in the first place I am today not retesting on protocol and following up. Before doing all these red meat eggs, organic butter, and other AA source my shbg and e2 have never been above 20 my whole life so there is link between AA - prostrate problems, Lp(a), and estrogen..
lp(a) levels are also associated with severe hypothyroidism as well so correcting that will also lower it
Wouldn't pregenolone go into progesterone/ dhea and that is what we want. Dr john has mentioned progesterone cream is not good for males. What made you think about progesterone creame for me just curious
fibrogen levels are smack in the middle
Hba1c = 5.7 - probably due to low insulin levels sure hell not inuslin resistance. Cinamin really drops blood sugar down
homocysteine is 4.4 which really sucks - going to check into 2 enzymes through blood testing for polymorphism possible triggered by excessive mercury as previously thought 2 enzyme are methione synthase, and 5mthffr (both are responsible for putting homocysteine back to methione) . If methione synthase is low goto IM methycobalin injections which have done in the past but like always DRs just try things with out having clinical tests to back it up..
Pregenonlone cream made me sleep very good so obviosuly it is getting absorbed nicely
i have an idea by rebalancing the AA/epa ratio and iodine defieincy, feeding the pregenenolone to increase progesterone/dhea metabolic pathways that my prostrate and estrogen/methyation/thyroid problems will be a thing of the past.
Since I have low DHEA according to lef that would also affect increase SHBG as well
Test to run next labs
Code: 34429 T3, FREE
Code: 36725 T4, FREE, DIRECT DIALYSIS AND T4, TOTAL
Code: 873 TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL
Code: 402 DHEA SULFATE
Code: 34604 LIPOPROTEIN A
Code: 457 FERRITIN
Code: 37077 CORTISOL, FREE AND TOTAL, LC/MS/MS
Code: 4021 ESTRADIOL
Code: 34257 HERPES SIMPLEX VIRUS 1 AND 2, PCR
Code: 31789 HOMOCYSTEINE, CARDIOVASCULAR
Code: 334 CHOLESTEROL, TOTAL
CMP with liver panel
Code: 36165 METHYLENETETRAHYDROFOLATE REDUCTASE (MTHFR), DNA
I am not a Dr.
I have to agree with a previous poster... you seem to be on WAY too many supplements.
How can you possibly know what is working, what isn't working, what is working against what is working and what is making what is not working work worse....yada, yada.
Better off seeing a competent physician and get to the root of the matter. Even if travel and out-of-pocket costs are incurred, long run cheaper than all that stuff you're taking.
just my 2 cents.
Scan all your blood tests for the last two years and post them here in your journal.
Separate them by dates.
Do not include any comments in that post.
3 days off armidex and still no erection, but nipples are not hurting either, but bad joint pain and bloating in stomach, no appetite, muscle feel really flat like no pump, hair still falling out a bit..
I just looked at my moms spectra cell test and mine they are identical except she is low in zinc due to low progesterone. reason I bring this up shes on 1 mgs femara for breast cancer and makes me think that I may have driven my e2 way down for a long time because i had no insurance to test for it. She also has same homocystein as me 4.4 and pretty much the smae problems with memory, joint pains, ect...Need to get e2 tested asap to know for sure because it needs to get stabilized ..
Getting e2 in check will reduce need more gaba, theanine, 5htp and will cause less stress to adrenals, thyroid, protein synthesis and fat/ cholesterol metabolsim will start back upagain. low estrogen alters lipid metabolism and cause choesterol and fats to be built up in the liver and not released hence low cholesterol, trigyclerides in serum. (fatty liver) it can also bring protein synthesis to grinding halt and also affect serotonin receptors through out the body..If I look armidex warning it pretty much tells the story..My typical scenerio is fatty liver due to insulin and estrogen imbalances
1. stabilize e2 before adding in HCG
2. INviestigation undermethyartion problems -related to e2 only makes sense or genetic mutation in specific enyzme common in 40% percent of population,
I took out TMG and added 200 mg sam-e BID I feel so much better on that
3. Examine fatty acid imbalances = EPA/AA ratio I
have consumed large quantitiys of red meat organic eggs, liver, for 8 months with no fish oils or fish due to I had to bleed out the fish oils and increase AA VERified by testing..RAtio switched caused increasing of SHBG. Before this my shbg was around 20
4.lower lp(a) levels - what things lower them NIACN and ESTROGEN, thyroid, fish oils, iodine
5. replenish iodine 50 mgs iodoral a day via urine testing and consulation with dr flectr
6. examine estrogen metabolism this could be putting extra strain on adrenals or thyroid..
rfish1966 HCG is known to increase more e1 then e2.
I beleive the hcg was reasoning for my higher e1 and could not metabolism it properly due to undermethylation, but AI took care of the e2 thats for sure and on 1 mgs a day drove it into the ground from the results from the ultrasenstiive e2 test of <2 range <29, stoppinng AI caused a horrible rebound effect thats for sure but still no one can give me a definitive answer on this...
Fromp upping iodoral to 50 mgs a day really put a damper on my adrenals. I upped cortef back 15 to 20 mgs a day and feeling much better..more energy and less joint pains, more less brain fog then previous days. These symptoms came on when the increase of from 25 mgs to 50 mgs..MY e2 seems to be keeping in check, but only blood work can verify it..Hopefully the pregnenolone creame is helping support other areas as hormone pathways as well..Morning wood is starting to return back, but also my nipples are starting to get sensitive too and that susully e2 starting to come back up. May be its just a rise in the e2 from low levels to high levels that is causing that ..Blood work will verify..
I just got back from the drs and got a new script for tests. He is really looking into the primary cause is iodine defeincy causing alterations in the estrogen metabolism which was hidden for many years. Dr flectr said my defiency was very severe and could have impact body as it did.. The blood test that I am focusing on are adrenals, thyroid, testosterone, and estrodial. I need to get this e2 balanced and find out what the hell is going on with metabolites. I know when my e2 goes to high I break out in bad cold sores for un there is not a stressful situation going on. My freind also does too and that is our gauge to determing our levels of e2.. Tommorrow I get tested, but right now I just feel ike total crap can not ****, pounding migraine head aches and could careless to even live (emotionally numb shallow no feelings), bloated and just feel like I just want to crawl up and die..I'm getting blood work tommorrow..I stopped armidex for 6 days and still no morning erections. I'm a total space cadet ...Snapped at my girl becuase she would stop harping on some mundane topic and I threaten to hang up on her,and i would have never said that in a million years.. Dr added prengenlone cream with dhea 50 mgs and may be its just too much converting to estrogens...Honestly I do not know any more...
Hang in there, HAN.
Just took blood work today and after stopping armidex for 7 days thinking it was low. I still had no morning erectinos, but I did get lovely migraine head aches and my herpes came back out( Same thing happened to my freind). Dr yesterday took me off DHEA said preg creame and dhea redundantand by this way we will see if it is really working or not. Just got my Estrogen metabolism test ready to go so I will do that starting tommorrow. Dr really fixed me up wrote new prescrption to 200 mgs/ml due to pharmacist ripping me off. Where best place to get this I have walgreens or rite aid near by? Gave me prescription of valtrex to calm the girlfreind down..Gave me a compelte lists of labs to run for thyroid, adrenals, testosterone, estrogens so I am very happy. Besides the constipation from estrogen imbalances I feel pretty good. i took .25 mgs of armidex today with my shots because previously 1 mgs a week put my e2 in the toilet . Dr seems to think the elevated bad :good ratio is what is pushing the shbg up because of metabolites are floating around in the blood stream not getting disposed of properly and we are going to find reason why and correct it..I seem to think once testosterone gets up into the 800-900 range estrogens would begin to drop possible, but I disproved this when I stop armidex and had hell of a rebound effect while all variables where the same..No with out dhea and HCG it may change blood results a little more and reduce the amount of estrodial and estrone being produced..
shbg was 38 last for blast blood test all the way back 8 months before dropping the fish oils it was 17-20 all the time..HMM SOunds strange dropping fish oils shbg goes up.
MY Blood test results tommorrow will dicate the arimdex amount ...I took .25 on day of shot yesterday and it had been almost 8 days since having it and morning my boners started to return and I feel so much more mentally charged !! and boobs are not hurting..Stomach is not as nearly bloated either !!
Hardasnails I got a call from my Dr.'s office on my Estradiol test and I am to high. I was down to .5 mgs everyweek now my E2 is 34pg/ml SHBG is still low 20 I stopped fish oil last sunday can stand the oily face and skin. My Dr. told me to do .5 mgs every 3 days. So now after starting on Florinef my body must be stablizing and E2 is coming back up.
I would say, having a choice the best would be around 25.
If you can do that by adjusting amount of fish oil go for it.
Anyhow, your last known SHBG=38
that would require
so you could have FreeT~250
To get close to TT~1075
With you being so sensitive to just about anything I suggest E2D dosing sytem.
assuming your test is 200mg/mL
your weekly dose have a volume of
77.5/7*2=22units each shot
use hcg 250iu each shot.
I suggest using subq shots for both T&hcg
do both shots one day the other day free, no shots
Retest six weeks to 3 months after starting this routine, do not make any changes in mean time, but if you do, re-start time counter to next blood test.
When drawing blood, do that on the day of the shot, time of the shot, before shot.
NOW i am on a legal testosterone cyp at 50 mgs every 3 days with NO hcg, dhea so test levels may be lower, but we are now adding one thing at a time to see what is working and what is not. 100 mgs preg creame daily..my main thing is e2 right now and reducing variables that will change it. I ahev an idea since the body is being supplied with testosterone and cortisol, that the prgenelone will go towards dhea pathway and possible alter e2 levels..I just have a feeling its going that way..But we will find out thats for sure ..
if your SHBG=38
I calculated your requirements for Testosterone based on study I did here:
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
there is supporting evidence included.
If you think your body is different then you have to do what works for you.
And if (60mg/week) put you on TT=1111
and you trying to remedy it (making TT lower) by using (50 mgs every 3 days) which is much larger dose.
I see some problems here.
120 mgs Testosterone from sust a week
250 ius hcg m,th with .5 mgs armidex m,th
blood work taken on the monday day of the shot and last shot was on thursday..
tt = 1111 = good
shbg = 38 = sucks (before fish oils = 17-20 )
e2 = <2 on scale of <29 = TOO LOW
stopping adex I had a horrible rebound to e2 78 no ultrasensative..
Now new test results tomorrow will be
50 mgs test cyp every 3 days for 5 weeks
25 mgs dhea, no hcg and just started preg creame 3 weeks ago (too early to tell )
20 mgs cortef
1 grain arour with 25 mcg t-3
50 mgs iodoral.
.25 mgs every 3 days days of shots up untill last week mornig wood stopped so thinking it was going low stopped it for 7 days and thats when I had all the high e2 symptoms come right back..
I still think un procesed estrogen metabolites are causinig shbg to go up...
Whoa--- are you guys saying that Fish oil can affect SHBG and T?
I thought this was a great thing to take and as close to a universal supplement as I can think of.
This is confusing. Is there any documentation out there discussing a connection? I've been taking fish oil for a good year or so and have sub-basement levels of SHBG.
The DHA in fish oil will raise T
Might need to verify through RBC essnetial fats to make sure you are not flooding your self,with too much fish oils or you might not be able to burn them off due to hormonal imbalances (low dhea, testosterone, thyroid )
results on day of injection..
e2 - 17 (13-54) - remember this was 4 weeks after it being 73 and doing armidex .5 mgs EOD for 2 weeks then .40 EVery 3 days .25 every 3 days..and then being off for 5 days before blood was being drawn and then I take .25 mgs next day and POOF I feel alot better HOW CAN THAT BE..
tsh - 2.29 too high normally under 1 and this is with one grain armour thyroid and t-3 ?
ft-4 1.0 .8-1.8
homocystein 4.1 - need more sam-e
dhea s - 252 110-370
progesterone 1.4 - keeping e2 in checked
ft3 - 302 - (230-420) still could go higher..
homocystein 4.1 - still too low Need more same-
hdl -49 - niacin raised it !!
cholesterol 129 126-230 still too low despite whole eggs saturated fats..
My balls are completely gone !! and i felt more complete on HCG .thats for sure. Now be a good time to start it
My only thing is that if all is good but still having symptoms of estrogen problems could not the estrodial but the conversions of the estrones be the main cultprit behind symptoms of high e2 levels..as well as keep my homocystein levels so stinking low since bad estrogen can cause hypomethylation..
My research indicates the opposite? The studies I have read show Fish Oil to lower insulin resistance?
I'm taking a large amount of Omega 3 so I would like to research this further.
"As I said earlier, insulin resistance (and the resulting rise in insulin levels) is the cause of type 2 diabetes. Although the exact molecular cause of insulin resistance is still unknown, Australian researchers have shown that if type 2 diabetics are put on the same dietary program I used in the San Antonio study, their insulin resistance is totally reversed in three days."
"Three months of daily supplementation with docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) produced a "clinically significant" improvement in insulin sensitivity in overweight study participants, according to Dr. Yvonne Denkins, a nutrition researcher at the Pennington Biomedical Research Institute."
"In rats fed high-fat diets, replacement of only 6 percent of the linoleic omega-6 fatty acids from safflower oil with long-chain polyunsaturated omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil prevented the development of insulin resistance."
"The results showed that blood sugar, insulin and leptin in fish oil group and chromium group were lower than those in high fat diet control group. Chromium and fish oil improved the insulin resistance and leptin resistance."
"These results coupled with the hypolipidemic effects of fish oil may have implications for the prevention and/or management of some pathological states manifested by insulin resistance with or without dyslipidemia."
If my fasting blood sugar does not improve I'm thinking of taking Metformin to increase my sensitivity.
This seems to be the "safest" of the sensitizing prescription drugs (if there is such a thing as "safest" when referring to prescription medications that jack with insulin sensitivity)
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