[hardasnails1973]

My freind has been on shippens protocol for 2 weeks doing hcg 200 sq ius a day, he was also taking 6 pills of DIM a day (do not ask me why) LOL no armidex, or other supplements other then multivitamins

Beginning blood work was
testosterone 330
shbg 22 10-50
e2 46 10-54
thyroid is optimal, adrenals optimal all ruled out
he is overly obesse, lipids are fine, everything else is in check

2 weeks later after protocol blood drawn after injection (shippen said it did not matter ) I would tend to challenge this statement, but I am not a dr
test 500 (241-827)
e2 78 (10-54)
inuslin 5 <17
hemo a1c 5.2 <6.0

He asked me what would be logical thing that would be done.
I suggested that he may
1. continue with hcg and add armidex (but I think this would be counter productive since hcg may be really cranking up the e2 due to him being so fat !!) in order to combat e2 one would need .5 mgs EOD to begin and adjuct from there.
2. cut HCG and goto injections may be add armidex after the 2-3 week if blood test verifiy it. Gels did not work on him they tried them already ..

His urine test showed elevated total E, e2, esterone and low e1, elevated testosterone levels, low dhea and low progesterone, and preg metabolites
any comments appreciated

Is it possible to have elevated esterone with out having elevated e2 This puzzles me how this can happen

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by hardasnails1973

My freind has been on shippens protocol for 2 weeks doing hcg 200 sq ius a day, he was also taking 6 pills of DIM a day (do not ask me why) LOL no armidex, or other supplements other then multivitamins

Beginning blood work was
testosterone 330
shbg 22 10-50
e2 46 10-54
thyroid is optimal, adrenals optimal all ruled out
he is overly obesse, lipids are fine, everything else is in check

2 weeks later after protocol blood drawn after injection (shippen said it did not matter ) I would tend to challenge this statement, but I am not a dr
test 500 (241-827)
e2 78 (10-54)
inuslin 5 <17
hemo a1c 5.2 <6.0

He asked me what would be logical thing that would be done.
I suggested that he may
1. continue with hcg and add armidex (but I think this would be counter productive since hcg may be really cranking up the e2 due to him being so fat !!) in order to combat e2 one would need .5 mgs EOD to begin and adjuct from there.
2. cut HCG and goto injections may be add armidex after the 2-3 week if blood test verifiy it. Gels did not work on him they tried them already ..

His urine test showed elevated total E, e2, esterone and low e1, elevated testosterone levels, low dhea and low progesterone, and preg metabolites
any comments appreciated

Is it possible to have elevated esterone with out having elevated e2 This puzzles me how this can happen

Close eyes, listen and follow Dr Shippen's instructions,
medicine
suplements
diet
life style/exercise

What was the lattest instructions that he have got from Dr Shippen?

[hardasnails1973]

Originally Posted by JanSz

Close eyes, listen and follow Dr Shippen's instructions,
medicine
suplements
diet
life style/exercise

He feeling like crap and is getting frustrated, but I keep telling him hormones take time to rebalance and to change in the blood. Every 2 weeks be thankful the man is checking your levels i wish mine would do that at least for total T and E shbg will not reduce for a few months once e2 is stablized. There office are not open till monday then he will find out but untill then he has to deal with it. He has severe herpes and having horrible out breaks and can not sleep at night no appetite either. Barely functioning at work and does not want to use that chrysin topical and wants armidex or some other pharmacetical..

[Jayhawkk]

Severe herpes?

[hardasnails1973]

Originally Posted by Jayhawkk

If he's a patient with issues why doesn't he contact Shippen and let him know his concerns so he can put them to rest?

Hes going to call monday..
He has out breaks when ever e2 goes high thats his indicator LOL
herpes simplex one about 90% of population has it. He does take valtrex and increasing his dsoages is not even helping

[professorJohn]

Originally Posted by hardasnails1973

My freind has been on shippens protocol for 2 weeks doing hcg 200 sq ius a day, he was also taking 6 pills of DIM a day (do not ask me why) LOL no armidex, or other supplements other then multivitamins

Beginning blood work was
testosterone 330
shbg 22 10-50
e2 46 10-54
thyroid is optimal, adrenals optimal all ruled out
he is overly obesse, lipids are fine, everything else is in check

2 weeks later after protocol blood drawn after injection (shippen said it did not matter ) I would tend to challenge this statement, but I am not a dr
test 500 (241-827)
e2 78 (10-54)
inuslin 5 <17
hemo a1c 5.2 <6.0

He asked me what would be logical thing that would be done.
I suggested that he may
1. continue with hcg and add armidex (but I think this would be counter productive since hcg may be really cranking up the e2 due to him being so fat !!) in order to combat e2 one would need .5 mgs EOD to begin and adjuct from there.
2. cut HCG and goto injections may be add armidex after the 2-3 week if blood test verifiy it. Gels did not work on him they tried them already ..

His urine test showed elevated total E, e2, esterone and low e1, elevated testosterone levels, low dhea and low progesterone, and preg metabolites
any comments appreciated

Is it possible to have elevated esterone with out having elevated e2 This puzzles me how this can happen

With your friend's E2 rising from 46 to 78, why doesn't Dr. Shippen start him on armidex?

[hardasnails1973]

Originally Posted by professorJohn

With your friend's E2 rising from 46 to 78, why doesn't Dr. Shippen start him on armidex?

That is what the most logical course would be BUT I know shippen loves to use topical chrysin, but in this case I believe it warrants armidex approach. Possible swithcing to IM injections would also lower aromatase which HCG could really be antagonsing.

[hardasnails1973]

Originally Posted by Dr. John

Estrone IS E1.

Two weeks is nothing. This is a process. Your friend should continue to follow Dr. Shippen's instructions, and allow the good doctor to do his job, without lay person's thinking they know more about this than a physician who is a legitimate legend in this field.

Whatever Dr. Shippen is doing, he is doing it with good reason.

Meant low e3 - estriol DAMN ESTROGEN FOG MY SELF HAHA

[hardasnails1973]

Originally Posted by Dr. John

Why on earth would he feel that way?

WE know that armidex is proven to work through gov't studies. Chyrsin he is just alittle leary off because its an herb baed product with little scientific back up behind it. We are a now and here society.. Personally I would give it a chance to work, but like any other person they want instant results, but I did tell him less medicine is better in the long run and things take time !! I think the thing that is hurting him is that he never got his estrogen metabolites back because dr ordering the test never requested them or call to get them

[hardasnails1973]

Originally Posted by Dr. John

Good point. But in this field, it all boils down to the practitioners knowledge, clinical experience, and instinct. And Dr. Shippen has all in abundance.

TRust me dr J I have been telling my freind give it time its only been 2 weeks and there are abnormalities showing up, just call Dr shippen and notify him and see what his next step is. We have another e2 gauge thats when its going high -his herpes out breaks are more severe

Oh trust me one time KSMAN even Pm me to see if I was ok because my grammar was horrible and not my normal logical tone..

[hardasnails1973]

Originally Posted by Dr. John

HCG results are measured over months.

Doesn't he already have an appointment scheduled?

I briefly spoke to Dr. Shippen this afternoon--he said he was two hours behind already. We won't have time to actually talk until 10PM tonight.

I think shippen actually does phone follow ups for blood test since they are ran every 2 weeks to make sure everything is in check. BTW should he have taken the shot then draw the blood? I thought that could have spiked his e2 to throw off blood test off ?

[smc252]

Originally Posted by Dr. John

Where on earth do lay person's get the idea they can second guess a medical legend?

I think he just wants instant results.. Personally I have suffered 6 years, and can see why he'd feel that way.. But I also see your point of view.

Are you hypogonadal?

[anyman]

Let me get this straight-- he is hypogonadal, obese and has herpes, among other things, yet he expects results right NOW?? How long did it take him to get in the bad shape? Years? He should not expect an overnight miracle. Unfairly cheapens the good doctor's reputation.

[spinn]

If he expects things not to work...his expectations will probably be met.

I would trust Shippen and let him do his thing.

[Jayhawkk]

Damn I edited that response about 10 seconds after I posted it because I realized that you had already stated he was contacting him on Monday...You're a quick one

[Headdoc]

here's a little piece on chrysin that I found informative.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2003/...r_test_03.html

perhaps the good doc believes in "easy does it"

[hardasnails1973]

Originally Posted by Dr. John

To sum it up, I just LOVE it when a patient tells me "well, my friend said I should do this (or that)", or, even better yet, "some guy on a message board says I shouldn't be doing what you are having me do".

Very true, but like majority in people in the world who have been sick for years on end just want the fastest resolution possbile. It took me almost 4 years to find out that I had knew I had diabetes in my family, but drs ignored the fact. Thanks to the good dr and guys on these boards that the solution was staring me right in the face the whole time, but it was hidden in beginning. With an shbg of 10 that and low DHEA, low test, hidden cortisol imbalnces that was the red flag. When not treated properly ended up causing hpta dysfunction and shutting down my whole endocrine system.. I keep telling him be thankful you found him. I had to suffer for 4 years and because I went through it I knew where to tell him to go and had kept reinformcing that "he is one of the best in the world and you have to put your faith in him and let him do his thing and what happen to you just did not happen over night and it takes 6 months - year or more to full repair the damage done at the cellular level of elevated estrogen." Some times the truth does really hurt I know..