- 07-17-2007, 10:10 PM
Was all excited today to start TRT. I am on NO treatment and was on NO supplements for the test. Got my results from the Rhein Labs urine panel and !!!!!!!!! Says my T is above range and I only got them done is because of years of low T symptoms. I've had a couple blood tests in the past show low T, dhea, etc too. Something isn't jiving with me (disgruntled employee at the lab?). I don't think Dr John wants me to discuss anything we discussed, and I want to honor that. I just wanted to post the lab results and get opinions from different angles from the very knowledgeable people who are regulars here. I am completely confused and ANY input would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. I need help here guys! Please!!!!!
- 07-17-2007, 10:32 PM
thats a big wtf.
I would get retested at a diffrent lab.
- 07-17-2007, 10:49 PM
I'd say the lab fukkered up...
I assume you didn't drink or do any other rec or prescription drugs in the past week or two?
See what a blood test tells you.
Not likely, but...
Could you somehow be pissing out all your testosterone? I've never heard of this, but I wonder if it could happen with kidney issues? Maybe a hypothalmic issue? I don't know much about them though, but I am sure Dr John has some spot-on ideas. Your next lab should give you a more clear insight.
07-18-2007, 07:56 AM
Rhein Labs urine panel
I would appreciate education.
Since DrDelgado discusses (big thank you) some aspects of it in his post, I thought it may be of help on this thread.
Avoiding excess conversion of testosterone into estradiol during testosterone treatme
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Indole-3-Carbinol (I3C) 50 mg
DIM Complex 100 mg
Blend of: Diindolylmethane Vitamin E as d-alpha tocepherol succinate Phosphatidylcholine
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645 mg blend
Other ingredients: calcium carbonate and cellulose
Lean N Fit - Sport
600 mg blend Hoodia Cactus,
Avena Sativa (10 - 1 extract)
Other ingredients: cellulose, calcium carbonate
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07-18-2007, 12:04 PM
You could also have a IGF-1 level in the crapper.
This test is obtainable for 75 bucks threw lef.org.
One time thing
07-18-2007, 01:04 PM
07-19-2007, 11:39 PM
My dad's in the hospital again so I haven't had alot of time to get online. I need a break from all the $%!# that is my life.
I called the lab and discussed why I should believe labs that have me at 1 1/2 times the range and got them to redo the test at no charge. I'll send it out in a few days. It ought to be interesting.
Tomorrow I'll dig out the full blood test sheets from before, scan them and post them here. Here's a few numbers I had though:
Thyroid 1.700 ( 0.350 - 5.500 )
PSA 0.7 ( 0.0 - 4.0 )
Testosterone 407 ( 241 - 827 )
Free Testosterone 12.4 ( 8.7 - 25.1 )
LH 5.9 ( 1.5 - 9.3 )
FSH 2.1 ( 1.4 - 18.1)
Progesterone 0.8 ( 0.3 - 1.2)
DHEA - Sulfate 178 ( 120 - 520)
Estradiol 27 ( 0 - 53 )
I'm not on, nor have ever been on any kind of trt or 'roids.
I'll post more info as I get it.
07-20-2007, 08:01 AM
if urine tests are so inaccurate... how can the piss test of the UFC stick??
07-20-2007, 08:17 AM
07-20-2007, 02:13 PM
09-11-2007, 10:12 PM
Saw Dr. John again last Thursday. I attached my new labs. I did nothing different (except drink some more water as suggested) and the results are DRAMATICALLY different. The new ones confirmed hypogonadism, which is good as it started me on the road to treatment. Started on androgel 1% 5g. Liking it so far, I already feel I have more energy and a better mood . Hope to add HCG and go to a higher dose of T with an AI after the next labs. I ordered some of the compounded T thru Dr. Johns office. I gotta say topicals are kind of a pain, I am going to research more on injections.
I am so glad I found this board and Dr. John . For the first time in many years I am optimistic of the future.
I also need to research some of the other hormones like OHET, it's WAY below range and androstenedione is high??? I still have ALOT to learn about all this, but I'm getting better.
09-12-2007, 07:16 AM
In the mean time possibly someone on the know will chime in.
This urine testing is new to me.
How to read the lab reports?
It looks like test results are greatly influenced by hydration, not sure if that would make urine tests somewhat suspect or less reliable than blood tests?
09-12-2007, 12:00 PM
b4554, did you find out what was wrong with your first lab? did u have to take another or did they somehow figure out the first ones correct value?
the reason i ask is i too took a rhein urine panel a few weeks ago and my total testosterone came back at 13 on a scale like 30-100. i was on 100mg of test c so there is no way its that low, also i am feeling much better, i suspect im at 60 perhaps 65
09-12-2007, 12:21 PM
09-12-2007, 01:48 PM
When this relationship is not as it should be, problem arises.
This is assuming that both, blood and urine tests are accurate.
All this is new science and I wish someone who knows would shed some lite on the subject.
For example, on same amount of testosterone injections and on same schedule, people are ending with different TotalT levels.
Even acconting for SHBG does not explain fully the differences.
enzymes, there is many enzymes, we mention only enzyme aromatase, but we newer discuse much more than that.
09-12-2007, 07:04 PM
help me here guys.
if only 10% of tgel is used, and 90% excreted, well then for a urine test to really indicate t levels, the "unused" T must be changed to something else before excretion? (or you expect urine t levels to be high when on gel).
what would indicate the excretion of the unused T in the urine? I mean, is there something that should rise in the urine as a result of this excreted T?
Just wondering what I'm Ping down the terlet.
09-13-2007, 10:54 AM
09-13-2007, 11:00 AM
I drank quite a bit of water with the first test too, but it was hotter and I work outside and sweated more. I don't think I was dehydrated, or at least not enough to make a day and night difference in the results. In my honest opinion I think Rhein screwed the pooch and gave me someone elses results.
09-13-2007, 11:01 AM
09-13-2007, 11:05 AM
I thought about calling them again, but figure I'd never get a true answer. At least I didn't have to pay for the second test. When I first thought I was going to be out the cost of the first tests I was hot . I commend them for redoing them at no cost with only a minor struggle.
09-13-2007, 11:09 AM
09-13-2007, 11:31 AM
I am not sure why the ReheinLabs are so hot.
I could use good technical explanation.
Going by presentation and years in bussiness,
I am going with Genova Diagnostics, former Great Smokies Diagnostic Laboratory.
I am waiting for the kit they are sending to my home.
Metabolic Analysis Profile
GDX Metabolic Laboratory Assessments
Will study results and order any further tests.
I already know I will do their
GDX Endocrinology Laboratory Assessments
Genova Diagnostics EstroEssence
I mentioned about Estroessence in my post #44
since I think it is essential in basic hormonal testing.
The EstroEssence check the following 11 (eleven) indicators:
Estrone (24hr urine)Male 3.00-12.00 mcg/24 hr
Estradiol (24hr urine)Male1.50-6.00 mcg/24 hr
Estriol (24hr urine)Male 3.00-28.50 mcg/24 hr
2-Hydroxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.26-13.68 mcg/24 hr
2-Methoxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.34-9.03 mcg/24 hr
16α-Hydroxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.25-7.89 mcg/24 hr
4-Hydroxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.33-1.95 mcg/24 hr
4-Methoxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.40 0.20-1.60 mcg/24 hr
2-Hydroxyestrone/16α-Hydroxestrone Ratio (24hr urine)0.94-1.56 Ratio
2-Methoxyestrone/2-Hydroxyestrone Ratio (24hr urine) 0.11-4.00 Ratio
4-Methoxyestrone /4-Hydroxyestrone Ratio (24hr urine) 0.18-3.60 Ratio
There is a little mistery with 2-Hydroxyestrone/16α-Hydroxestrone Ratio
Genova Diagnostics shows desirable range (0.94-1.56) Ratio
another words if someone have (16α-Hydroxestrone Ratio) wery small or zero, and therefore very high 2/16 ratio, that is not good either, we need all hormones just in right proportions (make sense to me, but I am not scientist or doctor).
09-13-2007, 11:57 AM
09-23-2007, 10:22 PM
Wow Androgel felt great!......for about a week Back to how I felt before, only with the added aggrivation of having to spear crap all over me everyday and worry about getting it on others. Seems like a common occurance as one shuts down and ends up near origional levels. I'll be sending out another sample after I get a new kit from Dr John. Im *hoping* to go to a higher dose on the compounded stuff and have an AI and HCG too. My nuts already seem smaller. How long does it usually take for them to waste away?
09-24-2007, 06:45 PM
09-25-2007, 11:37 AM
09-25-2007, 12:13 PM
09-25-2007, 03:01 PM
09-26-2007, 06:34 PM
10-03-2007, 08:55 AM
Haven't followed up with Dr. John yet. I'm posting because for the last few years I've had discomfort in my left nut but is way more frequent lately. It used to just bother me after sex more than 2 times in say a 24 hr period. Now it is has a dull ache probably half the day and has actual pain after sex. Any ideas? Reading different posts it seems that if someone has a problem with a nut it's almost always the left one. What's going on? Thanks!
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