bio-identical hormones

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    Unhappy bio-identical hormones


    Has anyone herd of this type of hrt? I just had my hormones checked and my test was 221 L and I'm only 30yrs old. The DR. suggested Bio-identical hormones rather then test injections.
    Any info would be great. Thanks

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    Testosterone injections and bio-identical hormones are the same thing.
    The testosterone in the injections(Primoteston, sus250, test prop) are chemically similar than what is naturally in your body. An example of NON bio-identical would be methyl-testosterone(Android, Testred, Virilon) which is a synthetic form that has side effects such as insomnia and anxiety.
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    they are talking about inserting a pellet under my skin every 3 months. I've never herd of doing this and was hoping someone had some experience with this or any info. this stuff is expensive and I would like to know if its worth the money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
    they are talking about inserting a pellet under my skin every 3 months. I've never herd of doing this and was hoping someone had some experience with this or any info. this stuff is expensive and I would like to know if its worth the money.
    If you read Dr Johns "TRT: A recipe for success" which is stickied at the top of this message area, you will read:

    "TESTOSTERONE PELLETS: In my opinion, their use is absolutely Stone Age. Sure, they can provide extra revenue by virtue of a billable office based procedure. "
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnotherOldGuy View Post
    If you read Dr Johns "TRT: A recipe for success" which is stickied at the top of this message area, you will read:

    "TESTOSTERONE PELLETS: In my opinion, their use is absolutely Stone Age. Sure, they can provide extra revenue by virtue of a billable office based procedure. "

    Dr. John's view notwithstanding, there are those who have had great results with the pellets. It is expensive, however - +/- $1k every time you get fresh pellets, which is a few times a year.
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    Bio-identical pellets


    I'm on the pellets.
    6 weeks after implant My T levels went from 362 to 1024. My free T went from 51 to 275. I'm also on an AI which made a big difference.
    The treatment lasted about 4 months and I'm going back in for re-treatment tomorrow.
    It's painless to have the pellets implanted, but for the week after it hurts like a mother-scratcher. After that it's pretty smooth sailing.
    I agree that there may be more sophisticated methods of administration but I liked the pellets, because I travel alot. I didn't want to have to carry needles and vials with me considering all the restrictions at airport security. After what happened to Stallone in OZ, I felt this treatment option fit the best with my lifestyle.

    Hope this helps.
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    Pellets


    Quote Originally Posted by azr101 View Post
    I'm on the pellets.
    6 weeks after implant My T levels went from 362 to 1024. My free T went from 51 to 275. I'm also on an AI which made a big difference.
    The treatment lasted about 4 months and I'm going back in for re-treatment tomorrow.
    It's painless to have the pellets implanted, but for the week after it hurts like a mother-scratcher. After that it's pretty smooth sailing.
    I agree that there may be more sophisticated methods of administration but I liked the pellets, because I travel alot. I didn't want to have to carry needles and vials with me considering all the restrictions at airport security. After what happened to Stallone in OZ, I felt this treatment option fit the best with my lifestyle.

    Hope this helps.
    Hello:

    Can i ask where you're located in as much as it seems you found a Doc in your area that will treat you for TRT. I'm deperately looking, thought you might possibly be close by? Thank you.
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    bio identical


    I'm in San Diego and I'm treated in Palm Desert.
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    Bio identical


    Are there any other members on this board that are using this type of therapy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
    they are talking about inserting a pellet under my skin every 3 months. I've never herd of doing this and was hoping someone had some experience with this or any info. this stuff is expensive and I would like to know if its worth the money.
    Vforcer2 uses T implants.
    Frst he loved, expensive.
    Then went to shots to save money.
    I think hi is back to implants again.

    Check his posts.
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    Thanks for all your input. The pellets are pricey around $200. a month if ya brake it down, but I've got to do something a 221 at the age of 30 is nuts. It makes sense though, I haven't made any real gains in a few years lifting and I'm always tired.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    Good answer! You and I both accept that adding an ester to improve the PK's of injectable T does not disqualify it as bioidentical.

    google
    cypionate testosterone pharmacokinetics pharmacodynamics
    testosterone pharmacokinetics pharmacodynamics
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    nice topic, 1998 wish to find recent study
    http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ull/83/10/3443
    If Testosterone, Which Testosterone? Which Androgen Regimen Should be Used for Supplementation in Older Men? Formulation, Dosing, and Monitoring Issues

    ----
    ============================== =======
    1995 study
    http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/conten...ract/132/4/514
    Injectable testosterone undecanoate has more favourable pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics than testosterone enanthate
    ----------------------------------------------
    1990 study
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...&dopt=Abstract
    Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of testosterone pellets in man.

    Total and free testosterone levels peaked at the first month and were maintained at physiological levels for 4 to 5 (600 mg doses) or 6 (1200 mg dose) months after a single implantation. Absorption of testosterone from 100 mg and 200 mg pellets closely approximated zero-order throughout the effective life of the pellets and exhibited a half-duration of 2.5 months.
    -----------------------------------------------------
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    thanks for the links bro! I think I'm going with the pellets they sound like the better choice to me (I think)
    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    google
    cypionate testosterone pharmacokinetics pharmacodynamics
    testosterone pharmacokinetics pharmacodynamics
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    nice topic, 1998 wish to find recent study
    http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ull/83/10/3443
    If Testosterone, Which Testosterone? Which Androgen Regimen Should be Used for Supplementation in Older Men? Formulation, Dosing, and Monitoring Issues

    ----
    ============================== =======
    1995 study
    http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/conten...ract/132/4/514
    Injectable testosterone undecanoate has more favourable pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics than testosterone enanthate
    ----------------------------------------------
    1990 study
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...&dopt=Abstract
    Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of testosterone pellets in man.

    Total and free testosterone levels peaked at the first month and were maintained at physiological levels for 4 to 5 (600 mg doses) or 6 (1200 mg dose) months after a single implantation. Absorption of testosterone from 100 mg and 200 mg pellets closely approximated zero-order throughout the effective life of the pellets and exhibited a half-duration of 2.5 months.
    -----------------------------------------------------
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    Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
    thanks for the links bro! I think I'm going with the pellets they sound like the better choice to me (I think)
    There is circardian rhytm that you will totally miss.

    Must be something to it because Dr John speaks about pulsing from time to time.
    ----------------------------------------------
    this is just to confuse you .
    Vforcer2

    or

    MrV
    loves pellets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
    thanks for the links bro! I think I'm going with the pellets they sound like the better choice to me (I think)
    There is circardian rhytm that you will totally miss.

    Must be something to it because Dr John speaks about pulsing from time to time.
    ----------------------------------------------
    this is just to confuse you .
    Vfrocer2
    or

    MrV
    loves pellets.

    big$$$
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    as for the price tag I think its cheaper. I was told by two places it would cost between 1,400-1,800 to use injectable Test-cyp every 6 months, and the pellets will cost me around 1,000-1,100.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
    as for the price tag I think its cheaper. I was told by two places it would cost between 1,400-1,800 to use injectable Test-cyp every 6 months, and the pellets will cost me around 1,000-1,100.
    strenght 200mg/mL
    10mL original Depo-T $150
    10mL watson $110
    10mL compounded T $47.50
    30mL compounded T $99.75

    assuming dose 150mg/week (large dose)

    10mL*200mg/mL=2000mg test

    2000/150=13 weeks

    30mL*200=6000

    6000/150=40 weeks
    some possible problem here, should be used within 6 months

    add cost of syringes $15/100 syringes

    $1400-$1800 for something that you can get for $120
    not bad deal (for person receiving $1800)
    plus he will convince you that you need shots once a month.
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    that price quote for the test-cyp treatment was from antiaginggroup.com My doctor only said it would cost me more, he didn't say how much. Can it really be that cheap?


    $1400-$1800 for something that you can get for $120
    not bad deal (for person receiving $1800)
    plus he will convince you that you need shots once a month.[/QUOTE]
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    Bio-identical


    Oh there's no doubt it would be lesser expensive to go with weekly injections. If price is your greatest determining factor then that might be your best option. For me it boiled down to individual needs. I might switch to injections later, but right now pellets made more sense.
    Either way, at least your getting treatment and your certain to feel a hell of alot better than you did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
    that price quote for the test-cyp treatment was from antiaginggroup.com My doctor only said it would cost me more, he didn't say how much. Can it really be that cheap?


    $1400-$1800 for something that you can get for $120
    not bad deal (for person receiving $1800)
    plus he will convince you that you need shots once a month.
    [/QUOTE]

    I am getting my original Depo-Testosterone from Wallgreens, $150.

    Needles either also from them, or my lattest and smallest, used for T&hcg


    http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant....Category_Code=
    BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95

    or less $$$

    http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant....Category_Code=
    Easy Touch U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16 inch Short Needle 100/Box Sale Price: $13.99
    ============================== ============================== ==================


    antiaginggroup.com

    I have a mix feeling,

    I feel that anti-aging should be promoted, it is beneficial to man kind.

    Also, every time someone mention TRT, I would rather increase the scope right from the start and talk of anti-aging (or similar desription).
    Scope of TRT is too narrow.

    Excessive pricing, with often no content to justify the price, is counter-productive and will back-fire.

    I feel lucky that there are kinds of:

    Dr John
    Dr Shippen
    LEF
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    strenght 200mg/mL
    10mL original Depo-T $150
    10mL watson $110
    10mL compounded T $47.50
    30mL compounded T $99.75

    assuming dose 150mg/week (large dose)

    10mL*200mg/mL=2000mg test

    2000/150=13 weeks

    30mL*200=6000

    6000/150=40 weeks
    some possible problem here, should be used within 6 months

    add cost of syringes $15/100 syringes

    $1400-$1800 for something that you can get for $120
    not bad deal (for person receiving $1800)
    plus he will convince you that you need shots once a month.


    If it were me, I would factor in charges for labs as a cost of treatment. If you have insurance, the cost for labs may be negligible or non-existent. But for those paying out of pocket, labs are a significant cost: At least $1k for the initial evaluation and $500 for followups.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    If it were me, I would factor in charges for labs as a cost of treatment. If you have insurance, the cost for labs may be negligible or non-existent. But for those paying out of pocket, labs are a significant cost: At least $1k for the initial evaluation and $500 for followups.
    My guess;
    anti-aging clinic writes you script for (very short) list of items to be tested and sends you to an outside lab. Additional bill for the patient.

    Couple months ago, someone who used anti-aging clinic posted his list of tests, he could probably fill in more (more accurate) details.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    My guess;
    anti-aging clinic writes you script for (very short) list of items to be tested and sends you to an outside lab. Additional bill for the patient.

    Couple months ago, someone who used anti-aging clinic posted his list of tests, he could probably fill in more (more accurate) details.


    In the past, I have always had mine done through LEF, and I paid out of pocket.


    The $1000 was to pay for the labs on Dr. C's "The labs I run," paid for at LEF member rates.

    The $500 was to pay for a Rhein 24-hour UA plus additional followup serum assays such as CBC, PSA, Chem panel, etc.


    As I said, people who know that their labs will be covered by insurance don't really need to factor them in as a cost of treatment. Otherwise, it is plain silly to tell your self that your treatment cost is only going to be a couple hundred dollars per year, when you know you are are going to face out-of-pocket payments of $1K or more for initial labs and approx. $1k per year in followup labs.


    And lets not forget physician's fees which may be as low as a few hundred dollars or as high as a few thousand in the first year. Again, for those with insurance coverage, these are not a significant concern. But there are more than a few who pay out of pocket.
    Last edited by cpeil2; 07-22-2007 at 09:13 PM. Reason: add content
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    I am currently receiving hormone therapy via bioidentical hormones. My testosterone level was 20 after my last m-drol/sus cycle. As far as the pellets go, I have noticed lackluster results. My sex drive is back up but my body composition does not reflect the lab results in relation to my reported testosterone level. I feel like a testosterone level of 1000 on the pellets is different from a testosterone level of 1000 on something like Sustanon. My strength is still embarrassingly low and the program is costing me about 4k per year. I go back in this Thursday for another pre-procedure blood drawing and get the implants next Thursday. The doctor knows my history and how much I have juiced, I just can't believe he wouldn't even consider HCG along with the pellets. Also, they have me on prescription Anastrozole in order to balance the estrogen. Also, my thyroid was a little screwed up, which I believe is a result from being prescribed Adderall throughout college and graduate school. Oh, and I started the hormone replacement therapy back in February, so my strength should have already recovered. I find it ridiculous that it has not at this point. I feel like I have wasted $3,000 so far. I mean come on, 3k buys a lot of gear. And to the guy who said the pellets are painless, are you kidding me? I can't bend over the entire next day, maybe because I am getting 12 and 13 pellets each time because my levels were so low. Yeah, if you are getting one pellet I can see it not hurting, but 12 is a different story. I feel like nothing we do works. If we try to get gear we risk getting in legal trouble or buy fake stuff and if we go to a doctor we risk paying out the nose and getting lackluster results. If we take prohormones we risk sever shutdown and poisoning our livers. I mean WTF?!?? Is anyone else as frustrated as I am?
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    Quote Originally Posted by theface View Post
    I am currently receiving hormone therapy via bioidentical hormones. My testosterone level was 20 after my last m-drol/sus cycle. As far as the pellets go, I have noticed lackluster results. My sex drive is back up but my body composition does not reflect the lab results in relation to my reported testosterone level. I feel like a testosterone level of 1000 on the pellets is different from a testosterone level of 1000 on something like Sustanon. My strength is still embarrassingly low and the program is costing me about 4k per year. I go back in this Thursday for another pre-procedure blood drawing and get the implants next Thursday. The doctor knows my history and how much I have juiced, I just can't believe he wouldn't even consider HCG along with the pellets. Also, they have me on prescription Anastrozole in order to balance the estrogen. Also, my thyroid was a little screwed up, which I believe is a result from being prescribed Adderall throughout college and graduate school. Oh, and I started the hormone replacement therapy back in February, so my strength should have already recovered. I find it ridiculous that it has not at this point. I feel like I have wasted $3,000 so far. I mean come on, 3k buys a lot of gear. And to the guy who said the pellets are painless, are you kidding me? I can't bend over the entire next day, maybe because I am getting 12 and 13 pellets each time because my levels were so low. Yeah, if you are getting one pellet I can see it not hurting, but 12 is a different story. I feel like nothing we do works. If we try to get gear we risk getting in legal trouble or buy fake stuff and if we go to a doctor we risk paying out the nose and getting lackluster results. If we take prohormones we risk sever shutdown and poisoning our livers. I mean WTF?!?? Is anyone else as frustrated as I am?
    It could have done it for 1/8 the price and got you on the right track and have money left over to goto vegas for a few days
    I just got a call from another guy who was frustrated as well. I think your DR is taking you to the cleaners since you are a returning customer.
    His excuse would be "oh its a bad batch" . With compounded stuff you never know what you are getting. This is the down fall of compounded stuff. Feel free to pm me
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    Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
    as for the price tag I think its cheaper. I was told by two places it would cost between 1,400-1,800 to use injectable Test-cyp every 6 months, and the pellets will cost me around 1,000-1,100.
    Huh? With insurance, my test cyp costs $10 for a 3 month supply.
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