Start HCG at start of TRT?

[aculpep]

Any reason not to start HCG at the same time I start T cream? I started 1g 2xday of T cream and Dr said we'll do labs in a month. My understanding is in 2 weeks my levels will plummet when my system shuts down and I dont want that to happen. So my idea is to start hcg immediately to keep my system going and up the dose after 2 weeks and then do labs in a month. I dont see the logic in waiting to start hcg until my dose is stable as hcg is just going to screw it up once I start it.

Also, I'm starting to think that the cream is going to be a PAIN. Doing it twice a day plus having to wait each time to swim or shower and all that. Just got back from daytona beach and couldnt imagine having to do this cream twice everyday and trying to figure out how to go boogie boarding first thing in the morning or hitting the pool. I'm thinking of asking to switch to shots after I run out of the cream since at least I'll have some more freedom. I already have enough to do with my diabetes. Is it possible to do cream then switch to shots on the days when I'm on vacation and at the beach and such? Can I interchange shots for a week then go back on cream I mean?

 

[JanSz]

Any reason not to start HCG at the same time I start T cream? I started 1g 2xday of T cream and Dr said we'll do labs in a month. My understanding is in 2 weeks my levels will plummet when my system shuts down and I dont want that to happen. So my idea is to start hcg immediately to keep my system going and up the dose after 2 weeks and then do labs in a month. I dont see the logic in waiting to start hcg until my dose is stable as hcg is just going to screw it up once I start it.

Also, I'm starting to think that the cream is going to be a PAIN. Doing it twice a day plus having to wait each time to swim or shower and all that. Just got back from daytona beach and couldnt imagine having to do this cream twice everyday and trying to figure out how to go boogie boarding first thing in the morning or hitting the pool. I'm thinking of asking to switch to shots after I run out of the cream since at least I'll have some more freedom. I already have enough to do with my diabetes. Is it possible to do cream then switch to shots on the days when I'm on vacation and at the beach and such? Can I interchange shots for a week then go back on cream I mean?

Since I went on Depo-T shots I cannot belive how I survived these years of Androgel and Tcream pain in the rear, shower pre-planings, touching my wife and children, so on.

Yes, start hcg simulaneously with T.
You have diabetis, hmm;

Why do not you get real good blood test, possibly my long test plus few other.
Post it here, numbers, units, ranges.
Do it at Quest blood drawn at Quest.

Do not start Tcream or anything new, wait until you get you blood test back plus all the medicines and supplements you are going to use.

Your follow-up (after the first big one) blood test should be able to capture your complete treatment otherwise you will complicate your treatment.

 

[aculpep]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/67231-aculpeps-lab-work.html

What do you think about staying at that dose for a month? I'm worried that I'm going to drop like a rock once my system shuts down. Plus I think shots will be cheaper. My T cream now is $75 so I assume it will double with the dose increase. That's too much if I can get T Cyp for $45 a bottle at sams. Although they told me $110 today but that was without a business membership as they said they had to fill the script to know the discount. I hope Ksman didn't lie to me I'm counting on that price.
I'm going to finish the cream and maybe ask to double the dose after 2 weeks then go to shots before it runs out. I need to put a plan together on dosage for the shots.

Since I went on Depo-T shots I cannot belive how I survived these years of Androgel and Tcream pain in the rear, shower pre-planings, touching my wife and children, so on.

Yes, start hcg simulaneously with T.
You have diabetis, hmm;

Why do not you get real good blood test, possibly my long test plus few other.
Post it here, numbers, units, ranges.
Do it at Quest blood drawn at Quest.

Do not start Tcream or anything new, wait until you get you blood test back plus all the medicines and supplements you are going to use.

Your follow-up (after the first big one) blood test should be able to capture your complete treatment otherwise you will complicate your treatment.

 

[aculpep]

Dr. John,

She did not know about using HCG until I brought it up and gave her your articles. She is an awesome doctor, but she told me up front that she doesn't have that much experience with treating men but that she is open to learn and go through the process with me. I guess I just feel like I have the burden of figuring all this out which is why this board is SO helpful. I just have been having anxiety about going in TRT and whether it is the right decision since I already have high TT but low FreeT. I am starting to realize that a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous.
I'll have to ask about the gel vs cream. You use it because it absorbs better?
I can see the shots being a QOL issue but I guess I'll give the TD a chance. I can always switch later. I'm really interested in how this is going to affect my diabetes. I am really, really hoping my sugars come down when my FreeT comes up. Noone in my family has ever had diabetes so it didn't seem genetic with me.

Thanks

My guys do not start the HCG until I have figured out the correct T dosing, so as to not cloud the picture. But if you are going to do the HCG on a short period, then it could make sense to start it right in. It's just a difference in strategy between your doctor and myself. I just more picky, that's all. But let's respect him for getting on board with the HCG!

It's looking more and more that TD is vastly superior to injections with respect to our health. I want my guys to be as healthy as possible, so I want them to use the gel (not cream!) if possible.

So, people who tell you to abandon the TD in favor of injections are concerned with lifestyle, not ultimate health. Raik of accidental transferral is another issue, of course.

Those who have been with me for a while will recognize this as a complete about-face of my previous position regarding this matter.

 

[pmgamer18]

See if you can get your Dr. work with Dr. John over the phone to test and treat you this would be your best bet. Read the stickys.

Dr. John,

She did not know about using HCG until I brought it up and gave her your articles. She is an awesome doctor, but she told me up front that she doesn't have that much experience with treating men but that she is open to learn and go through the process with me. I guess I just feel like I have the burden of figuring all this out which is why this board is SO helpful. I just have been having anxiety about going in TRT and whether it is the right decision since I already have high TT but low FreeT. I am starting to realize that a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous.
I'll have to ask about the gel vs cream. You use it because it absorbs better?
I can see the shots being a QOL issue but I guess I'll give the TD a chance. I can always switch later. I'm really interested in how this is going to affect my diabetes. I am really, really hoping my sugars come down when my FreeT comes up. Noone in my family has ever had diabetes so it didn't seem genetic with me.

Thanks

 

[aculpep]

You still have to see Dr. John in person first. Thats what Kim told me in the past.

See if you can get your Dr. work with Dr. John over the phone to test and treat you this would be your best bet. Read the stickys.

 

[aculpep]

Oh I guess I did! Thanks for correcting that Dr. John. I'll talk to my doctor about it next week. She'll be all for it since she is eager to learn more. It will be nice to just sit back and follow instructions. I'm excited.

You must have misunderstood.

I can serve on a consultation bais, where I advise your local physician. I do this every day.

 

[pmgamer18]

Once I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken:blink:

 

[aculpep]

Ha!

Once I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken:blink:

 

[RPHMark]

Dr. John, Could you elaborate on the TD vs Inj as it related to overall health?

Aculpep, correcting T levels should definetly benefit you as it relates to diabetes related cardiovascular/lipid issues. I have not seen a direct or strong inflence on blood sugar.

 

[KSman]

Dr. John, Could you elaborate on the TD vs Inj as it related to overall health?

Aculpep, correcting T levels should definetly benefit you as it relates to diabetes related cardiovascular/lipid issues. I have not seen a direct or strong inflence on blood sugar.

As for the overall health issue: I expect that it is an issue of how serum levels vary. With frequent injections, such as EOD, with multiple small doses in various states of assimilation, the levels are very steady, at least compared to weekly injections. But the frequent injections will also not allow for morning T spikes that are natural. Transdermals can create those daily surges or spikes. Maybe the issue is really more of a concern with transdermals VS weekly injections.

Blood sugar effects: For many, correcting T levels and adjusting E if warranted, will contribute to weight loss. The path of progression of diabetes is very much determined by ones amount of fat if too high. TRT can lower cholesterol greatly too. As heart disease is a greater risk for diabetics, that effect may be valuable as well.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Nice assumption adjustment

Why are you just assuming the price will double? Just get a stronger concentration. It will then not. But why not just ask your doctor?

I guess I would have assumed the same.

So there is an expense associated with labor and packaging above the cost of the T? Makes sense to me, esp when I look at these guys talking about how cheap injectable T is compared to gels and cremes.

 

[KSman]

It's looking to some of us that guys just plain do better on TD's than IM; I directly attribute this not only to better DHT production, but moreso to the ups and downs through the day.

But some do not do well or respond to TD's.

I agree that some may feel/do better on TDs... when the TDs are well absorbed. So for the good TD responders, the results may exceed the results from any optimal injection frequency.

I have had the benefits with very steady T levels with my EOD injections, but have had this sense that the levels are too steady and that the morning T level peaks are missing and would be of benefit.

I am now using a small amount of 5% T cream [on top of injections that have not changed] from a compounding pharmacy (that Dr. J does not approve of) to see if I can create some improvements. Some interesting positive results so far... but I don't know how to characterize and would not want to suggest that my experience would be representative for others stacking a small amount of TD on top of injections.

 

[JanSz]

But some do not do well or respond to TD's.

I agree that some may feel/do better on TDs... when the TDs are well absorbed. So for the good TD responders, the results may exceed the results from any optimal injection frequency.

I have had the benefits with very steady T levels with my EOD injections, but have had this sense that the levels are too steady and that the morning T level peaks are missing and would be of benefit.

I am now using a small amount of 5% T cream [on top of injections that have not changed] from a compounding pharmacy (that Dr. J does not approve of) to see if I can create some improvements. Some interesting positive results so far... but I don't know how to characterize and would not want to suggest that my experience would be representative for others stacking a small amount of TD on top of injections.

At the moment I am commited to T+hcg injections and do not want to use transdermals.
But;
often weekly T injections are not often enough so I use E3D

I suspect that we will never be fully satisfied with any method, since we will newer replicate natural healthy hormonal interaction.

I also suspect that close enough control should be acceptable.

Balance of energy should be diverted to wory about many other acpects of good health.

 

[b4554]

My guys do not start the HCG until I have figured out the correct T dosing, so as to not cloud the picture. But if you are going to do the HCG on a short period, then it could make sense to start it right in. It's just a difference in strategy between your doctor and myself. I just more picky, that's all. But let's respect him for getting on board with the HCG!

It's looking more and more that TD is vastly superior to injections with respect to our health. I want my guys to be as healthy as possible, so I want them to use the gel (not cream!) if possible.

So, people who tell you to abandon the TD in favor of injections are concerned with lifestyle, not ultimate health. Raik of accidental transferral is another issue, of course.

Those who have been with me for a while will recognize this as a complete about-face of my previous position regarding this matter.

Curiosities.
1) Do future fertility concerns affect when HCG is started?
2) If a hectic life/work schedule make TD's highly impractical do you prescribe shots or just TD's?
Thanks.

 

[ItsHectic]

Dr. Shippen and I have discussed this. In fact, he likes to have his guys take a one day vacation from TD's each week. I just haven't been able to get my guys to pick which day they want to feel like crap. lol

I think the answer is easy. Sunday, cause a lot more other people will be feeling like crap on that day

 

[ItsHectic]

Curiosities.
1) Do future fertility concerns affect when HCG is started?
2) If a hectic life/work schedule make TD's highly impractical do you prescribe shots or just TD's?
Thanks.

For number 2, its completly upto the patient on what they prefere.

 

[jaydee]

I want my guys to be as healthy as possible, so I want them to use the gel (not cream!) if possible.

Is there a difference between gels and creams if your T level responds well to the creams? Is it in the way it absorbes it or somthing?