18 y/o bloodwork (test, free test)
- 07-11-2007, 04:28 PM
18 y/o bloodwork (test, free test)
I don't have any issues but just wanted to see where my test levels are at. I've just turned 18. I dont have the full metabolic panel yet but over the phone i got
Total Testosterone: 441
Free Test: 1.1% (not sure on this, he wasnt very clear on the phone)
How is this?
- 07-11-2007, 04:37 PM
Most 18 yo total test results woud be 1000-1200........
- 07-11-2007, 04:43 PM
maybe Dr. John could chime in as well, the doc also has the lab results for estrogen. I'm gonna scan once i get the hard copy in late july.
when i asked what he thought of my 441 he said "why? where did you want it to be?" i said i didnt know lol. But i wouldnt mind being in the 800-1000 range at least. :/
07-11-2007, 04:50 PM
It is fairly low, what time of the day was blood taken for this result?
And its not common to find people in the 1000-1200 range.
07-11-2007, 04:55 PM
07-11-2007, 11:55 PM
07-12-2007, 11:19 AM
You test is low, do not let anybody tell you otherwise.
To find out why, you have to do blood tests.
The more items you will test the more chance you have finding what is out of line.
There is lots of reasons why things are not as they should.
I post oftem my long test.
It is up to you to take action.
Expect lot of resistance from doctors.
Also your mind may be working agains you.
Get as much knowledge as you can so you are aware of the possiblities.
07-12-2007, 08:01 PM
Any starter convo ideas about this that you have would be great...
07-12-2007, 08:33 PM
#1 it is not easy.
Read story of other people.
Educate yourself, read two years worth of posts here.
Strart with "stickies", (Sticky Threads)
read their "protocols.
You will have a confidence and knowledge when talking to a doctor.
Go see dr John, he will definitely take your problem seriously.
07-12-2007, 09:18 PM
Aoba, I don't recommend jumping immediately to the TRT solution. I'm 19 and recently tested 336, so I feel the pain. You might want to research and discuss the possibilities out there for boosting your HPTA and natural testosterone production before you shut down the show and switch to exogenous hormone. It *is* basically a lifetime commitment...
07-12-2007, 11:44 PM
07-13-2007, 12:03 AM
No, I desperately want to correct my testosterone levels. But those results may be reflective of 5+ months of caloric restriction and 4+ years of insufficient sleep (insomnia has been a huge problem). So in my case (and, upon careful reflection of things like diet and sleep, maybe Aoba's, too), there may be lifestyle changes and drug and supplement options that can have a huge impact on improving the HPTA function. What do you think?
07-13-2007, 12:23 AM
What do you guys think if i purchase Dr. Shippen's book to get a better idea and maybe show it to my GP and get referred to endo? it might be a start
07-13-2007, 10:13 AM
07-13-2007, 05:10 PM
07-13-2007, 07:57 PM
Yes, use of an AI would make sense if your E2 levels are suppressing LH/FSH and T production.
And accidents or blows to the head?
Any damage to the testes?
That amount of arimidex is more typical of those using gear. Even with TRT doses, 1mg/wk is often enough. With lower T, you need less arimidex and with more T, you need more. So you would not have a starting dose that high. But hard to say without E2 numbers, body weight, % body fat and info on body fat distribution.
Some young guys have low T, perhaps skinny and low amounts of body hair, thin or sparse beards. Just the way things are and thats normal from a statistical point of view.
If E2 is up and you lower it, T will go up as the negative feedback of the E2 is removed. From a libido point if view, 17-20 is often quoted as an optimal level. Libido is a very good barometer for what your body and brain are reacting to a particular balance of T:E. Libido responses to hormone levels can be much faster than things like mood, attitude, energy, depression etc. Those changes can be very slow and thus are not good response indicators.
Correcting E first makes a lot of sense as something to do before contemplating TRT. As your T levels are not below reference ranges, many Doctors would hesitate to do anything.
07-14-2007, 01:37 AM
i actually have too much body hair mostly lol. Its just a family thing i guess. But i do actually have a minor case of glandular tissue so could this be a sign my E2 is high?
07-14-2007, 11:44 AM
07-14-2007, 12:10 PM
07-14-2007, 06:57 PM
07-15-2007, 04:19 PM
07-19-2007, 01:51 AM
I'm 19 and have a total T of 241. I can still get erections gain muscle mass but have severe fatigue and brain fog.
My treatement is being delayed because the doc is trying to find the root cause versus simply giving me TRT. An MRI is on it's way but other than that... I don't see what else it could be.
Anyway, it blows my mind how people can complain about having T levels around the 500 mark. Stop complaining god damnit. I've never had mine higher than 300 and people are giving me **** for saying it's "low".
07-19-2007, 02:57 AM
Same sort of story here. As I mentioned above, I'm 19 and came up with 336, but because it was two hours after I woke up, my endo wants me to retest earlier in the morning and only after those results will he consider MRI's of my pituitary and balls. Then, if there is an apparent problem, he vaguely suggested that "we'll have to give you some testosterone back."
Erections are fine (morning wood isn't too frequent, though) and muscle mass and strength come on easily, but low libido, bad fatigue, definite brain fog, persistent anxiety, very low threshold for stress, low sperm volume, and had to get surgery for pubertal gynecomastia. It's clear that I would REALLY benefit from higher test, especially psychologically and socially, and it could do wonders for my quality of life and longevity (wrt my stress problems), but my endo still insists on putting me through this entire ordeal.
07-19-2007, 04:59 AM
07-19-2007, 10:42 AM
Lab tests are made to confirm symptoms! not to give u a reason for treating something that is not even there in the 1st place. I think yr giving this young guy the wrong idea! just my opinon.
07-19-2007, 11:00 AM
07-19-2007, 03:54 PM
But the frequent problem is that many people are looking for somebody clairvoyant to fix them up.
They do not provide information, tests.
Sometimes money/insurance is a problem.
Or doctor is not right for the job.
Or lack of discipline and patience.
07-20-2007, 11:16 AM
I think if persuing trt then it would definatly be best to figure out why u are low in the first place, i think every1 will sign on this. My point was that if its not broken why try to fix it at all? If u feelt great and had no issues what so ever why would u go looking for problems to fix, it makes no sence. And most perfectly healthy persons will have a value out of range if u do enough testing, this is probably why doctors dont tend to react with the same enthusiasm as the patient when seeing the results.
I think once u have established that you have a problem u tend to get fixed on numbers alone. Hoping that fixing the numbers will take care of the problem, and in many cases it obviously does. If i felt perfectly fine but still had the same low numbers i would not persue HRT any further and i fail to c a good reason why any1 should.
07-20-2007, 03:18 PM
thin wrinkly skin
prostate enlargement BPH
belly fat, inability to loose fat, syndrome-X aka metabolic disorder
lean tissue (muscle) loss, instability/balance problems and falling
bone loss and fractures from the above
loss of height
loss of appetite - malnutrition
co-deficiencies of pregnenolone & DHEA that can be treated as part of HRT/TRT
probably a bunch of other stuff
The above can occur without an obvious sense of unwellness.
Some might not think that ED and low libido are a wellness issue.
07-20-2007, 06:49 PM
07-21-2007, 01:54 AM
Define lower levels of T? What is low and what is optimal from an aging or QOL point of view?
07-21-2007, 11:14 AM
Would u like to c everyone with a totalT of around 450 with no symptoms of low T on HRT as a preventive meassure? I think we both know that HRT is no walk in the park And why any1 would advice some1 at the age of 18 without issues to walk down this road as a precautionary meassure is something i cant understand. I guess we c things differently in this particular case.
07-21-2007, 04:12 PM
Many people tremendously discredit these advantages.
Remember someone who is 30 or more with a 500TT level does not have these advantages, so a less than optimal T level can have a detrimental affect on QOL. Comparing someone who is still a teen to a 30 - 40 something adult, or older, is beyond apples to oranges.
Your Dr is might be right in suggesting TRT.
07-21-2007, 04:15 PM
However, I don't like the idea of using BF or BF distribution as an indicator of E2 level, way to much of a generalization, especially with young guys. Me and Blesum are walking proof that low BF/good muscle mass can go along with high E2(not that I like it this way!).
Makes me wonder how much even better I would be off with an optimal E2 number.
07-21-2007, 09:01 PM
I would add that when discussing testosterone, emphasis should be on Free and BioAvailable rather than TotalT.
Levels of SHBG (and Albumin) may greatly affect need for testosterone.
SHBG out of line level may in itself indicate other problems.
07-21-2007, 09:11 PM
I understand that albumin weakly carries T and that is considered bioavailable... yes/no? My HRT/TRT response has turned out quite well and I have not had a motive to learn about many other aspects.
07-22-2007, 10:13 AM
Word document searchable on SHBG in this case.
Avoiding excess conversion of testosterone into estradiol during testosterone treatme
07-22-2007, 10:17 AM
07-22-2007, 01:05 PM
im at top range of shgb and only 12 e2.. i do have elevated free t4 wich could make shgb go up too as often seen in hyperthyriod. when that is taken care of and if shbg still wont come down im checking into total estrogen no matter what experts say
07-22-2007, 01:29 PM
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