cortisol problems

[Kingston pt]

how long on average does it take to treat cortisol problems?

 

[dsade]

As far as cortisol's influence on fat deposits of the midsection, or more systemic problems?

 

[Kingston pt]

Systemic. If I had low cortisol or high cortisol ex. adrenal fatigue how long would it take to treat/ adjust it on average? I hear doctors use isocort how long does the trt. regimine take?

 

[JanSz]

Systemic. If I had low cortisol or high cortisol ex. adrenal fatigue how long would it take to treat/ adjust it on average? I hear doctors use isocort how long does the trt. regimine take?

I have heard that Isocort is not very good source of cortisol.
Those who use it are really in the bind and do not have other source of cortisol.

Supposedly Adrenal Fatigue may be treated with low dose of cortisol (Cortef (up to 30mg/day) or equivalent) and it takes up to two years. I have seen also claims (on stopthethyroidmadness board) that it is not possible to cure AF.

I guess it is case by case situation.
Common (light) cases, 3 months on Cortef then attempt to wean off Cortef.
Real carefull in between.

Phil, if you see this post, please give your opinion.

 

[Scottyo]

anywhere between 6 weeks and 2 years. Im at about the 9 month plus mark, although Ive been on cortef only since beginning of february. and people will use up to 60mg a day of hydrocortisone, although it is BEST and safe to start at 20mg and only if thats not enough slowly increase by 5mg every week or so.

Some of us dont absorb it as well or just seem to require more. it is also EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to find the underlying cause of the AF and make significant lifestyle changes.

 

[dsade]

Systemic. If I had low cortisol or high cortisol ex. adrenal fatigue how long would it take to treat/ adjust it on average? I hear doctors use isocort how long does the trt. regimine take?

High cortisol != adrenal fatigue.

Adrenal fatigue treatment is a long term issue, whereas systemic cortisol can be treated pretty quickly.

 

[Chip Douglas]

High cortisol != adrenal fatigue.

Adrenal fatigue treatment is a long term issue, whereas systemic cortisol can be treated pretty quickly.

did you rather mean that high cortisol will eventually lead to lower cortisol output ?

I've been experiencing very frustrating low sex drive for the last 9 years, and the only test results that one doctor noticed that could explain it all is the low 24-hour urinary cortisol. I'm just saying this.

 

[hardasnails1973]

did you rather mean that high cortisol will eventually lead to lower cortisol output ?

I've been experiencing very frustrating low sex drive for the last 9 years, and the only test results that one doctor noticed that could explain it all is the low 24-hour urinary cortisol. I'm just saying this.

Gase pedal is down and eventually your brake pads will give and you will run out of gase. You start off on cortisol then you go into adrenalin as reserve then you sympathetic system and parasympathetic system are toasted = adrenals burn out

 

[Chip Douglas]

Gase pedal is down and eventually your brake pads will give and you will run out of gase. You start off on cortisol then you go into adrenalin as reserve then you sympathetic system and parasympathetic system are toasted = adrenals burn out

I couldn't have said it better

 

[Chip Douglas]

Will tyrosine make adrenal fatigue worse ?

 

[Scottyo]

i would avoid it for now. It did not seem to help me...and I think its just playing with the thyroid too much when your trying to recover your adrenals.

things like adrenal extracts (with HC removed) to rebuild...plus HC, ginseng, and other adaptogens. and removing stress and toxins. Also, try looking into iodine deficiency.

 

[Chip Douglas]

i would avoid it for now. It did not seem to help me...and I think its just playing with the thyroid too much when your trying to recover your adrenals.

things like adrenal extracts (with HC removed) to rebuild...plus HC, ginseng, and other adaptogens. and removing stress and toxins. Also, try looking into iodine deficiency.

iodine deficiency--is this somehow linked to AD ?

 

[sandman82]

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What is 11-OXO?
11-OXO is the trademarked name for what is most commonly known as adrenosterone. Adrenosterone is a hormone that is secreted by the adrenal gland in the human body. In many fish including salmon, tilapia, eel, trout, bass and others, adrenosterone is produced in the testes along with the major fish androgen 11-ketotestosterone, which adrenosterone actually serves as a precursor to. Although its function in humans is not completely clear, it has been shown to have the ability to modulate the presence of cortisol in certain bodily tissues.
What is cortisol and what effects does it have on the body?
Cortisol is a vital hormone that allows the body to process fuel more quickly and efficiently under stressful conditions. It does so by stimulating the breakdown and processing of muscle protein and stored triglycerides to amino acids and free fatty acids. Under physically demanding acute circumstances such as weight training, cortisol plays a crucial role in muscle growth and fat loss. Under chronic stress however, much of the processed fuel goes unused and is redeposited preferentially in cortisol sensitive locations including the abdominal viscera, upper back and face. Worse yet, since cortisol is indiscriminant with respect to fuel sources, much of it comes from lean body mass. The end result is a reduction in lean body mass and accumulation of fat in the aforementioned locations.
Furthermore, excessive cortisol exposure to the brain reduces the release of luteinizing hormone, growth hormone as well as thyroid-stimulating hormone from the pituitary gland, thereby reducing levels of the anabolic hormones testosterone and insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), as well as triiodothyronine (T3). This results in diminished capacity for muscle hypertrophy and fat loss and an increased capacity for muscle atrophy and fat gain. In addition, cortisol in the brain has been shown to have a negative effect on neuronal health leading to compromised brain function.
Not only does excessive cortisol have deleterious effects on body composition, it can also lead to a host of very serious health problems, some of which are collectively referred to as metabolic syndrome.
What is metabolic syndrome?
Metabolic syndrome is characterized by various metabolic risk factors and the health conditions that are associated with them. These risk factors include but are not limited to, abdominal obesity, artherogenic dyslipidemia, elevated blood pressure, insulin resistance, as well as prothrombotic and proinflammatory states, all of which are collectively major contributors to heart disease, vascular disease and diabetes, among other conditions. Excessive cortisol exposure to muscle, visceral fat, vascular tissue and liver is responsible for either causing or exacerbating each and every one of these risk factors.
Where does 11-OXO come in?
11-OXO targets an enzyme known as 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 1 reductase, or 11β-HSD1R for short. This enzyme is responsible for converting the inactive stress hormone cortisone to the active stress hormone cortisol in specific tissues including muscle, visceral fat, vascular tissue, liver and brain. These are the exact tissues where excessive cortisol exerts all of its harmful effects on health and body composition. Furthermore, cortisone is much more prevalent in the blood than cortisol, making the 11β-HSD1R pathway the dominant source of cortisol in the aforementioned tissues.
How does 11-OXO target 11β-HSD1R?
11-OXO acts as an inhibitor of 11β-HSD1R by occupying the enzyme, thereby preventing the inactive cortisone from accessing it and being converted to the active cortisol. This is known as competitive inhibition. By eliminating this specific pathway, chronic cortisol levels in key parts of the body are drastically reduced while acute cortisol spikes and their associated benefits are largely unaffected. It is also of particular importance to note that due to its selective nature, 11-OXO primarily inhibits 11β-HSD1R as opposed to 11β-HSD2 which is the enzyme responsible for converting the active cortisol into the inactive cortisone.
What happens to 11-OXO after it binds to 11β-HSD1R?
11β-HSD1R acts on 11-OXO in the same manner as it would cortisone. It reduces the 11-keto (11-OXO) functional group to an 11β-hydroxyl functional group, yielding a hormone known as 11β-hydroxyandrostenedione. In addition, 11-OXO serves as a precursor to various other androgens including 11-ketotestosterone.
What type of effects do these androgens have?
11-OXO will elicit a level of androgenic activity and concomitant suppression of testosterone production in a manner that is dose dependant. However, 11-OXO’s most potent mechanism of action is selective 11β-HSD1R inhibition. ErgoPharm’s suggested dosage of this product is designed to take advantage of 11-OXO’s selective cortisol modulating properties while minimizing androgenic activity and its associated effects.
How should 11-OXO be taken?
Whether one is looking to build muscle or lean out, 11-OXO is an extremely powerful body recompositioning agent that is not only gentle on the body but has the potential to actually improve overall health.
ErgoPharm suggests a dose of 225mg to 450mg for cycles of no longer than 8 weeks. Due to a relatively short half life, it is recommended that 11-OXO be taken 2 to 3 times daily. 6-OXO Extreme is suggested for post cycle but not necessarily required.



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We started the prohormone era. Welcome to day one of the SCM era

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Whats the scoop on this Patrick Arnold character? Wasn't he big into prohormones before they were kaboshed?

Are all of these oxo products just marketing, or is there validity?

 

[pmgamer18]

how long on average does it take to treat cortisol problems?

It can take 6 months to 2 yrs. and if one has it for to long without treating it they may never come back. Read this link.
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/adrenal-thread-134240195.html

 

[JanSz]

It can take 6 months to 2 yrs. and if one has it for to long without treating it they may never come back. Read this link.
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/adrenal-thread-134240195.html

Excellent, everyone should re-read this thread from time to time.
Phil, you are taking and benefiting greatly from Florinef.
Read this, from the same thread:
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/470676-post60.html

 

[pmgamer18]

Excellent, everyone should re-read this thread from time to time.
Phil, you are taking and benefiting greatly from Florinef.
Read this, from the same thread:
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/470676-post60.html

Reading this a long time ago got me strarted on checking this had it tested 3 different times. And it's not about just Addison if your low and your body can't hold sodium your dam sick.
========================================
Regulation and Actions of Aldosterone
Adrenal Fatigue and Craving for Salt

As mentioned in the “Anatomy” section, aldosterone is manufactured in the zona glomerulosa of the adrenal cortex. Like coritsol, aldosterone follows a diurnal pattern of secretion with its major peak at around 8:00 AM and major low between midnight and 4:00 AM. Also like coritsol, its production and secretion increases and decreases in response to stimulation of the adrenal cortex by ACTH. This means that aldosterone levels generally rise in stressful situations. However, aldosterone is not part of the negative feedback loop controlling its release. Instead, it depends on the negative feedback loop in which coritsol levels trigger ACTH activity. This means that coritsol determines the amount of ACTH which controls production of both coritsol and aldosterone with aldosterone having no say in the matter.


The only thing the cells that produce aldosterone can do to regulate production is to alter their sensitivity to ACTH. Therefore, after about 24 hours, the adrenal cells of the zona glomerulosa become less sensitive to the demands of ACTH and stop manufacturing more aldosterone. The amount of circulating aldosterone then begins to decrease, even though the ACTH levels are high and the need for increased amounts of aldosterone may continue. This decreased production continues until the cells of the zona glomerulosa recover their sensitivity to ACTH, but in the meantime the decreased aldosterone leads to many of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue.


Aldosterone is the most important mineralocorticoid, but corticosterone and desoxycorticosterone are also included in this category. The effects of aldosterone depletion can be observed in a large number of hypoadrenic persons. Aldosterone depletion may create one or more different symptoms which are specifically related to the diminished mineralocorticoid levels.


In the chronically stressed person, the levels of sodium and chlorides in the urine should be measured as well as the specific gravity in the urine. Chlorides in the urine are measured by Koenisburg’s test. This test also provides information of the sodium levels being excreted in the urine. Excessive sodium in the urine is one of the first clues that a person has a hypoadrenic problem.


Aldosterone is responsible for the maintenance of fluid (water) and the concentration of certain minerals (sodium, potassium, magnesium and chloride) in the blood, the interstitial fluid (area between the cells) and inside the cells. Working with other hormones such as anti-diuretic hormone from the pituitary and rennin and angiotensin I and II from the kidneys, aldosterone keeps the fluid balance and salt concentration intact, in roughly the same concentration as sea water. In the blood and interstitial fluid, sodium is the most dominant of the four minerals. Inside the cells, potassium has the highest concentration. These four minerals are called electrolytes because they carry minute electrical charges. These electrolytes are very important for proper cell function and fluid properties and they must remain in a relatively constant ratio to each other and to the body fluids. Small deviations in their ratios to each other, or to their concentration in the body fluids, means alterations in the properties of the fluid, the cell membrane and the biochemical reactions within the cell. In fact, most of the physiological reactions in the body depend in some way on the flow or concentration of electrolytes.


Aldosterone, in times of stress is the major director of these relationships by its influence on sodium and water concentrations. Although this interaction is somewhat complex, the overall process is easy to understand if you just keep an eye on the sodium in relation to aldosterone. As the concentration of aldosterone rises, the concentration of sodium rises in the blood and interstitial fluid. Wherever sodium goes, so follows water.


In adrenal fatigue, the craving for salt is a direct result of the lack of adequate aldosterone. As mentioned above, aldosterone controls sodium, potassium and fluid volumes in your body. When aldosterone secretions are normal, potassium, sodium and fluid levels are also normal. When aldosterone is high, sodium is kept high in the fluids circulating in your body.


However, as circulating aldosterone levels fall, sodium is removed from your bloodstream as it passes through the kidneys and is excreted in the urine. When sodium is excreted it takes water with it. Initially, there is some loss of volume of your body fluids but it does not become severe unless the condition worsens. Once your circulating sodium level drops to about 50% of its original concentration in body fluids, even a small loss of sodium or sodium restriction in your diet begins to have severe consequences. Tiny fluctuations in blood sodium concentration have a significant effect o blood volume when sodium is depleted to this level.


When the sodium supply of the blood is not replenished by eating salt-containing foods or liquids, sodium and water is pulled from your interstitial fluids into the blood to keep your blood sodium levels and water volume from getting too low. If too much salt or fluid is pulled from the interstitial fluids, the small amount of sodium in the cells begins to migrate out of the cells into the interstitial fluid.


The cell does not have a great reserve of sodium because it needs to maintain its 15:1 ratio of potassium to sodium. As the sodium is pulled from the cell, water follows the sodium out.


This leaves the cell dehydrated as well as sodium deficient. In addition, in order to keep the sodium/potassium ratio inside the cell constant, potassium then begins to migrate out in small quantities. However, each cell has minimum requirements for the absolute amounts of sodium, potassium and water necessary for its proper function. When these requirements are not met, cell function suffers, even if the proper ratio is maintained.


If you are suffering from moderately severe adrenal fatigue, you must be careful how you re-hydrate yourself. Drinking much water or liquid without adequate sodium replacement will make you feel worse because it will dilute the amount of sodium in your blood even further. Also, your cells need salt to absorb fluids because sufficient sodium must be inside the cell before water can be pulled back across the membrane into the cell.


When you are already low on body fluids and electrolytes, as you are in this situation, you should always add salt to your water. Do not drink soft drinks or electrolyte-rich sports drinks, like Gatorade, because they are high in potassium and low in sodium, the opposite of what someone with low coritsol levels who is dehydrated needs. Commercial electrolyte replacement drinks are designed for people who produce an excess of coritsol when exercising, not people who are low on coritsol and aldosterone. Instead, yo are much better off having a glass of water with ¼ - 1 teaspoon salt in it, or eating something salty with water to help replenish both sodium and fluid volume.


In a nation of people suffering from adrenal fatigue, the fast food restaurants come to the rescue. Such restaurants use an excessive amount of salt in their foods; a custom left-over from the old road houses where lots of salt was used in the food to stimulate appetites and whet the thirst (for alcohol, the biggest profit item). Although not a good solution, it supplies “emergency” rations daily to people living in marginal health. It averts the crisis and replenishes their supplies for another few hours.


When your aldosterone levels are low and you are dehydrated and sodium deficient, you may also crave potassium because your body is sending you the message that your cells are low on potassium as well as sodium and water. However, after consuming only a small amount of potassium containing foods or beverages (fruit, fruit juice, sodas and commercial electrolyte replacement drinks), you will probably feel worse because the potassium/sodium ration will be further disrupted.


What you really need in this situation is a combination of all three, water, salt and potassium in the right proportions. One of the easiest ways to accomplish this is to drink small repeated doses of water accompanied by a little food sprinkled with kelp powder. Kelp powder contains both potassium and sodium in an easily assimilated form. Depending upon taste and symptoms, extra salt can be added. Sea salt is a better choice than regular refined table salt, because it contains trace amounts of other minerals in addition to the sodium. Another choice is to drink a vegetable juice blend containing some celery and chard and diluted with purified water.


Usually, within 24-48 hours, your hydration and electrolyte balance will have stabilized enough that you can proceed to an adrenal-supporting diet. You must continue to be careful to drink salted water or vegetable juices 2-4 times during the day, varying the amount of salt according to your taste, and you should avoid potassium-containing foods in the morning when your coritsol and aldosterone levels are low. Never eat or drink electrolyte-depleting or diuretic foods and beverages such as alcohol and coffee, especially if you have been out in the sun or are otherwise dehydrated. One of the problems people with adrenal fatigue constantly deal with is a mild dehydration and sodium depletion.


When there is inadequate aldosterone, the kidney allows sodium, chlorides and water to spill into the urine, and maintains ionic balance by retaining, rather than excreting, potassium. Some of these low aldosterone persons present with symptoms of dehydration. The appearance of the tongue is one of the easily monitored indicators of dehydration. Normally, one should feel considerable slickness when running a finger down the protruded tongue of a person. It should slide easily across the tongue like a cube of ice across a wet piece of waxed paper. If the tongue is rough like sandpaper, or if you feel friction, with your finger catching or sticking to the tongue’s surface, it is an indication of inadequate tissue hydration. The person needs more water intake.


The person may report excessive urination, up to 15 or 20 times daily. Likewise, due to the effect of aldosterone on the sweat glands, the person may report excessive perspiration or perspiration with little or no physical activity. The common factor in all of these persons is a weakness of sartorius, gracilis, posterior tibialis, gastrocnemius, or soleus, and a background of some type of stress.


A person with lowered aldosterone may also demonstrate other symptoms. For a nervous system action potential to take place there must be an adequate supply of sodium on the outside of the cell membrane and an adequate supply of potassium inside the cell. They must be balanced. If this balance is undermined by a loss of sodium and retention of potassium, the nervous system will find it difficult to propagate normal action potentials and maintain itself at a good functional level. This may result in a wide variety of symptoms, including muscle twitches and even cardiac arrhythmias (heart palpitations).


With a chronic sodium-potassium imbalance, the person will show the sign of a paradoxical pupillary reflex. Normally, shining a light into a person’s eye will cause the pupil to constrict. This papillary constriction to light should be able to maintain itself for at least 30 seconds. In the hypoadrenic person (especially in the exhaustion stage of the GAS) you will find one of three things:


1. The pupil will fluctuate opened and closed in response to light.

2. The pupil will fluctuate opened and closed in response to light. (This is a deliberate opening and closing, not the minor flutter or twitch of the normally encountered hippus activity.)

3. The pupil will initially constrict to light, but it will dilate paradoxically with continued light stimulation of less than 30 seconds. This patient will frequently complain of eyes that are sensitive to light (such as when going from indoors to outside on a sunny day) or will be seen wearing sunglasses whenever outdoors or even indoors under bright light.


Another problem related to lowered mineralocorticoid levels in hypoadrenia is a paradoxical, non-pitting edema of the extremities. When the patient with hypoadrenia spills sodium and water into the urine and perspiration, and has a tendency to be dehydrated, we would hardly expect him to show signs of holding water, such as edema. But that is exactly what we do see in some hypoadrenic patients.


With the body spilling large amounts of extracellular sodium and likewise retaining intercellular potassium, we can see how an osmotic differential could develop in the patient’s tissues. If the osmotic difference (created by the increased potassium seeking its intercellular position and the lowered extracellular sodium levels) is severe enough, the body will most often attempt to correct this osmotic imbalance by allowing extracellular fluid to enter the cells. (It is also possible that the body could kick the potassium out of the cell and into the extracellular fluids, and although this occasionally occurs, we rarely see signs of this in the blood potassium levels.) The body is trying to dilute the potassium in the cell with water, to bring the system into osmotic equilibrium. The cells take on water, and the patient has swelling.


Often, these patients are placed on a diuretic by an unenlightened physician whose only basis for this prescription is the patient’s symptoms. The diuretic in these patients rarely helps the condition and often aggravates the tendency toward dehydration. Further, many diuretics act as adrenal (aldosterone) inhibitors, adding even more stress to the adrenals and tending to make the patient worse in the long run.


Even in adrenal fatigue, the body is still wonderful, beautiful and incredibly wise. It is our society, our maladaptation to the stresses of modern life, and our poor judgment that need to change. We may not be able to change society but we can learn to use better judgment when it comes to taking care of ourselves and to respond to stress in healthier ways.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Progmmer if your taking 20 mgs cortisol and your dhea levels are low on your blood test even taking 50 mgs of dhea a day. Could the ratio of altered low DHEA to high cortisol have same impact on the body as having high cortisol because my body is not aborping the DHEA at all or its being converted to esterone? My e2 is defintely in check boners all day long non stop, but body fat in stomach, and memory ispretty bad only short term is increasing which implies elevated cortisol to dhea ratio as shown by blood work. My dr will not check on e2 for another 3 weeks so right now its just a guessing game. I still wiating on the preg creame because drs have not called me back yet to have prescriptin verified through compounding pharmacy..Plus i have been in arizona for over a week and I feel like symptoms have gotten worse is that because of the dehydration factor and I need more salt? MY body is not crving salt but rather potassium (MOLASSES and yams, ect.) I can not figure which one i need should i do pupil test to find out..?

 

[pmgamer18]

When you get your cortisol levels high enough your DHEA can come back up on it's own. So doing 50 mgs will convert into E2
Don't do the yams your low on sodium and that happens so the more yams the more potassium and less sodium. Try to do more Sea Salt on hot days I do 1/2 tsp 5 times a day.

Progmmer if your taking 20 mgs cortisol and your dhea levels are low on your blood test even taking 50 mgs of dhea a day. Could the ratio of altered low DHEA to high cortisol have same impact on the body as having high cortisol because my body is not aborping the DHEA at all or its being converted to esterone? My e2 is defintely in check boners all day long non stop, but body fat in stomach, and memory ispretty bad only short term is increasing which implies elevated cortisol to dhea ratio as shown by blood work. My dr will not check on e2 for another 3 weeks so right now its just a guessing game. I still wiating on the preg creame because drs have not called me back yet to have prescriptin verified through compounding pharmacy..Plus i have been in arizona for over a week and I feel like symptoms have gotten worse is that because of the dehydration factor and I need more salt? MY body is not crving salt but rather potassium (MOLASSES and yams, ect.) I can not figure which one i need should i do pupil test to find out..?

 

[GRIMNURUK]

. Try to do more Sea Salt on hot days I do 1/2 tsp 5 times a day.[/QUOTE

Wow! I guess I might be safe moving mine up from 1/4 tsp x 2 a day. Thanks pmgamer.

For the original poster. I've had adrenal fatigue on and off with worsening symptoms and severity for 18 years. Just got it recognized and started treatment last fall. Have (under THE DOC's supervision) cautiously been increasing cortisol up to pretty much maximum dosage over last 9 months or so and starting to get a handle on symptoms. Cold sores went away. Can work 40 hour week again (after 4 years). Some exercise (one decent workout a week, plus a mile or so walking each day to work and back). I still notice some "chest tremors" or the very begininngs of the old "package" of symptoms probably once or twice every other day or so at the very end of each dose of cortisol before next dose kicks in. I fully expect this will take at least another 2 years to treat and taper down dosage. Certainly each of us has a different story/history, tolerance to stress, etc, etc. But I wanted to put my experience up for you to look at because that is what I was looking for a year ago or more when I hit ROCK BOTTOM.