3 tests and more confusion as it goes

[nallepuh]

So i am a former propecia user.

Test 1 when i found out about low T

s-prolactin 7.8 (3-13)
s-fsh 3.3 (1.0-12.5)
s-lh 2.1 A (1.2-9.6)
s-östradiol <150
s-dheas 9.5 B (4.3-12)
s-shbg 40 (20-50)
s-testosterone 12 (10-30)
s-testosterone bioactive 5.2 (6.3-16)
tsh 1.0 (0.1-4)

-------------------------------------

Test 2 after testogel for 3-4 weeks (not even on full doze of 50mg in 5 gram bag) This was drawn 3-4 weeks into testogel about 3 hours after applying it.

s-prolactin 5.4 (2-12)
s-fsh 2.4 (1.4-1
s-lh 1.6 (1.5-9.3
s-östradiol 47 (30-160) Translates to 12 in US numbers.
s-dheas (high end of scale cant remember exact number)
s-shbg 39 (11-52)
s-testosterone 12 (8.8-32)
s-testosterone bioactive (still below minimum)
p-psa 0.86 (<4)

Quit cause i thought i was getting gyno and my chest hurt.
------------------------------------

Test 3 when off the gel for 3 weeks.

s-prolactin 14 (2-12) ???
s-fsh 3.5
s-lh 2.5
s-östradiol < 150
s-shbg 45 (20-50) bah
s-testosterone 12 (10-30)
s-bioactive T not drawn. prolly even lower since higher shbg
free T4 14 (6-12) thought i was hypo not hyper ???
IGF-1 in the high end (only read over phone so far)

Persisting symptoms.

fatigue
low libido
insomnia
Digestion issues (gluten alergy etc)

Libido sky high on gel. basicly felt good if not for chest issues.
Doc suggests 50 mg was too high of a doze for me, says i should try a pump and do 30 mg and take it from there.
Can labtests be wrong ?? 50 mg is too high and im still on 12 out of (10-30) on that doze? Im basicly clueless right now.

All i know is i felt way different on gel even if labs say same values.

Now after gel prolactin is off and even over the range, i think this could be the cause of my chest pain, isent milk ducts/glands high up on chest going down on the outside of chest?

Fyi: we dont test dht here unless u goto antidoping unit and they are really bussy :/

Please share any thoughts about this

Thx guys

 

[jaydee]

Very comforting that you noticed an improvement on the gel. At least everything still works. It amazes me the conflicting blood test results from ex-finasteride users...they are all over the place.

I wouldnt worry about your low Total T if your libido is fine and your happy with how you feel. Some guys can function on low Total T numbers. The only thing I would worry about is if your Total T/Bio T was so low that it is a health risk in some other area of your body - those commonly associated with low T levels. Some of the more knowledgable guys might be able to answer that.

Prolactin needs to come down for sure.

I would maybe consider doing a stool sample to test your gut flora to make sure there are no nasties causing your digestion problems.

How was your Liver Function Tests?

 

[nallepuh]

Very comforting that you noticed an improvement on the gel. At least everything still works. It amazes me the conflicting blood test results from ex-finasteride users...they are all over the place.

I wouldnt worry about your low Total T if your libido is fine and your happy with how you feel. Some guys can function on low Total T numbers. The only thing I would worry about is if your Total T/Bio T was so low that it is a health risk in some other area of your body - those commonly associated with low T levels. Some of the more knowledgable guys might be able to answer that.

Prolactin needs to come down for sure.

I would maybe consider doing a stool sample to test your gut flora to make sure there are no nasties causing your digestion problems.

How was your Liver Function Tests?

Liver functions were not elevated the only time i tested them wich was 18 month ago when i first came of propecia.

Yes prolactin needs to come down but what made it go up??
Total T is a worry for me since im only happy with libido when on the gel and i cant take the gel cause of the chest issues. but i agree, no need to fix what aint broken.

As for digestion i am on no gluten diet with low suger etc dont drink alcohol at all. Im also on anti yeast meds to stop possible candida and bad bacteria. Will add in probiotics after 1 more week when completed the program for bad bacteria. Even with this i still i have trouble, alltho this was better/cured couple of weeks ago, maybe just a step back.

 

[jaydee]

Are you on any other meds? Anti-depressants?

The Prolactin was not elevated while you were on the testosterone so I doubt it would be causing the chest issues. Your yet another person with low/normal E2 but still have chest issues. Was the E2 test an ultra sensitive assay?

Maybe its a Total E problem and estrogen metabolism is not up to par. Have you tried anything like DIM, TMG or Calcium D Glucarate?

 

[nallepuh]

Are you on any other meds? Anti-depressants?

The Prolactin was not elevated while you were on the testosterone so I doubt it would be causing the chest issues. Your yet another person with low/normal E2 but still have chest issues. Was the E2 test an ultra sensitive assay?

Maybe its a Total E problem and estrogen metabolism is not up to par. Have you tried anything like DIM, TMG or Calcium D Glucarate?

Nope not on any prescriptions what so ever. Never tried tmg or calcium D glucarate nore dim.

Well prolactin wasent elevated at the time i took the tests while on the gel. Maybe prolactin fluctuates in me, maybe test was flawed somehow? i remember reading about 2nd test on HRT often beeing wrong. Cant figure it out based on labs in my case, they tell different stories than what im feeling.

The thing with the E test as far as i can understand here is that if it has a set range its the correct test. So my latest labs is not the right e2 test. I asked doc and he said possibly i could have 149 (<150) and low t wich would make my androgen index really low but he said i shouldent worry about e2 now as it was only 12 while on the gel..

U say lots of ex fin users have low e2 and still chest issues. My experience says the oposite that many ex fin users indeed have high e2 values and thus they have chest issues. I never did test total estrogen. I tried chrysin with no luck. Zinc dont do anything for me either.

I might get back on the gel at a lower dose to c how i go but first i have to wait a couple of weeks to check prolactin and free t3 t4 as per docs orders. He seems to think the elevations is just a fluke. Hope he is right.

 

[jaydee]

U say lots of ex fin users have low e2 and still chest issues. My experience says the oposite that many ex fin users indeed have high e2 values and thus they have chest issues.

I wasnt referring to finasteride users, I was referring to everyone. I agree, a lot finasteride users have high E2.

 

[nallepuh]

I wasnt referring to finasteride users, I was referring to everyone. I agree, a lot finasteride users have high E2.

ah my bad.
Yes theres more to estrogen than docs are willing to admit

rambling time.
Is it possible that when on propecia my thyriod had to fight an increasing amount of estrogen for receptor sites and when not getting through it upregulated thyriod hormones to be able to compete? then when quitting propecia my t4 t3 was way to high when estrogen reduced causing me digestive issues low libido fatigue hyperthyroid signs etc, could this with low testosterone as a result of testicle atrophy while on propecia be worth looking into?

 

[JanSz]

ah my bad.
Yes theres more to estrogen than docs are willing to admit

rambling time.
Is it possible that when on propecia my thyriod had to fight an increasing amount of estrogen for receptor sites and when not getting through it upregulated thyriod hormones to be able to compete? then when quitting propecia my t4 t3 was way to high when estrogen reduced causing me digestive issues low libido fatigue hyperthyroid signs etc, could this with low testosterone as a result of testicle atrophy while on propecia be worth looking into?

There are lots of theories floating around.
Some may even be right.

My theory.
Go always to the same lab.
Do as many blood tests as you can arrange for.
Make corrections to as many numbers as you are able.
Other theories are for entertainment only.

 

[plymouth city]

Doctor is clueless.

Wrong E2 test.

If done right E2 test, it would have shown your E2 number sky high, trust me.

If Dr new what he was doing, he woulda got right test, seen it high, ordered you on AI, symptoms wouldve cleared up, you stay on gel, feel great even better, end of story.

That will be 50 bucks for my services :lol:

 

[nallepuh]

Doctor is clueless.

Wrong E2 test.

If done right E2 test, it would have shown your E2 number sky high, trust me.

If Dr new what he was doing, he woulda got right test, seen it high, ordered you on AI, symptoms wouldve cleared up, you stay on gel, feel great even better, end of story.

That will be 50 bucks for my services :lol:

I would love for u 2 be right and if u are ill gladly pay u 10x yr fee but my e2 test on the gel shows 12 in us numbers, thats really low.. so maybe its not elevated, even if that last test was completely worthless agreed. Swedish docs wont prescribe an AI even if its elevated maybe thats why he dont care if order the wrong or the right e2 test cause even if it shows elevation he wont do nothing about it :/

Also i hear with low thyriod gels dont work very well. What about high thyriod like me? That should be ideal for absorbtion yet blood shows no increase in T. Maybe time to try injections, to bad i live in land of 1 injection every 3 weeks.

have to edit: i sound like all i do is complain, just want to say im usually a really cheerfull guy its just getting frustrating and i realize whining isent making this better for any1, ill be back with happy thoughts in a day or 2.

thx for yr thoughts so far.

 

[JanSz]

I would love for u 2 be right and if u are ill gladly pay u 10x yr fee but my e2 test on the gel shows 12 in us numbers, thats really low.. so maybe its not elevated, even if that last test was completely worthless agreed. Swedish docs wont prescribe an AI even if its elevated maybe thats why he dont care if order the wrong or the right e2 test cause even if it shows elevation he wont do nothing about it :/

Also i hear with low thyriod gels dont work very well. What about high thyriod like me? That should be ideal for absorbtion yet blood shows no increase in T. Maybe time to try injections, to bad i live in land of 1 injection every 3 weeks.

have to edit: i sound like all i do is complain, just want to say im usually a really cheerfull guy its just getting frustrating and i realize whining isent making this better for any1, ill be back with happy thoughts in a day or 2.

thx for yr thoughts so far.

You keep on complainig.

There is lots of people in USA who want to see your type of medical care right here in USA.

 

[plymouth city]

Trust me, wrong test I guarantee it. This is happened to a couple of my pm board buddies. They felt like crap, yet E2 was in the crapper, Im talking single digit.

When right E2 test was finally done, they were both a whopping 20 POINTS over the limit.

 

[nallepuh]

You keep on complainig.

There is lots of people in USA who want to see your type of medical care right here in USA.

As in previous post, i appologise for that..

Im assuming u r reffering to swedish health care beeing run by goverment and is also free (more or less) so your wallet do not decide how healthy u can afford to be. Ofc this is great. Im would never change it for anything. But truth is that within such a system there is no need for doctors to be exellent and strive to do better etc other than personal motivation. And in my situation this shows, its not a common situation for doctors to deal with hypogonadism here. And there is no private doctors to turn to when the hospital endos come out short. For instance, docs here will never use an AI no matter what, they all work in the same hospitals and are trained in the same schools and are told to use the same healthcare guidelines provided by the goverment. Ok i dont pay more than 30 usd per visit and all tests are free but if i am not getting better and they are not willing to do what it takes as far as testing and tuning goes then its of little use.

I think beeing like this for 18 months is a testimonial for that.
Mind u i had pretty good idea of what was wrong from day 1 considering i knew about propeciahelp.com ..

In the big picture i think that swedish healthcare is great, just wanted to have that said.

cheers.

 

[nallepuh]

Trust me, wrong test I guarantee it. This is happened to a couple of my pm board buddies. They felt like crap, yet E2 was in the crapper, Im talking single digit.

When right E2 test was finally done, they were both a whopping 20 POINTS over the limit.

after consulting with my doc about this issues he insured me that there is nothing wrong with the e2 test but he could not explain the sudden pain and lumps in chest to other than elevated estrogens. He told me i could try a smaller doze of something like 25 mg testogel per day (halv a bag) and c if i could tolerate this better as he thought 50 mg is a rather big doze. My understanding is that most ppl think 50 mg is too small a doze so im gonna go what seems more reasonable here wich is that he is clueless and the e2 test if flawed somehow.

So starting over with e2 testing.
In order of not getting it wrong again, can u point me to the exact e2 test that i should be getting done. remembering that i live in sweden. I hope i dont need to go abroad to get my problems fixed but if it comes to that i guess i will have to.

Thx

 

[JanSz]

after consulting with my doc about this issues he insured me that there is nothing wrong with the e2 test but he could not explain the sudden pain and lumps in chest to other than elevated estrogens. He told me i could try a smaller doze of something like 25 mg testogel per day (halv a bag) and c if i could tolerate this better as he thought 50 mg is a rather big doze. My understanding is that most ppl think 50 mg is too small a doze so im gonna go what seems more reasonable here wich is that he is clueless and the e2 test if flawed somehow.

So starting over with e2 testing.
In order of not getting it wrong again, can u point me to the exact e2 test that i should be getting done. remembering that i live in sweden. I hope i dont need to go abroad to get my problems fixed but if it comes to that i guess i will have to.

Thx

In your first post you have:

s-östradiol <150 ---------wrong test
------
s-östradiol 47 (30-160) Translates to 12 in US numbers. ---------- correct test
------
s-östradiol < 150 ---------wrong test

always post number, units, ranges

You are low on estradiol, do not use AI's.

 

[nallepuh]

In your first post you have:

s-östradiol <150 ---------wrong test
------
s-östradiol 47 (30-160) Translates to 12 in US numbers. ---------- correct test
------
s-östradiol < 150 ---------wrong test

always post number, units, ranges

You are low on estradiol, do not use AI's.

thank you for clearing that up.

after reading this i talked to hopsital lab and they confirm they have 2 tests for östradiol. 1 is called sensitive östradiol and this is apperantly the one they took when my 2nd tests were drawn as it is the only of the 2 tests that has a reference range. Doc dident know they had a sensitive test.

Okay lets say that im low on östradiol when on gel and probably even lower when not on gel, this could be the reason for my shrinking gentials that cleared up within a few days on the gel.

But the chest pain and lumps have to be connected to hrt somehow cause now a few weeks off i dont have these issues at all.

What hormone imbalances could potentially cause these issues apart from prolactin and e2 as apparantly they are not completely out of range. when quitting propecia i had some transparent/white fluid come out of my areolas at 1 time, this happend only this 1 time and the quantity could not have been more than a few ml. Could prolactin be pulsating and as such not be detected when tested? Is there any other test that i should be doing other than the ones currently beeing used: t3, t4, TT, shbg, BioT, östradiol, prolactin, lh, fsh, igf-1.

thx

 

[JanSz]

thank you for clearing that up.

after reading this i talked to hopsital lab and they confirm they have 2 tests for östradiol. 1 is called sensitive östradiol and this is apperantly the one they took when my 2nd tests were drawn as it is the only of the 2 tests that has a reference range. Doc dident know they had a sensitive test.

Okay lets say that im low on östradiol when on gel and probably even lower when not on gel, this could be the reason for my shrinking gentials that cleared up within a few days on the gel.

But the chest pain and lumps have to be connected to hrt somehow cause now a few weeks off i dont have these issues at all.

What hormone imbalances could potentially cause these issues apart from prolactin and e2 as apparantly they are not completely out of range. when quitting propecia i had some transparent/white fluid come out of my areolas at 1 time, this happend only this 1 time and the quantity could not have been more than a few ml. Could prolactin be pulsating and as such not be detected when tested? Is there any other test that i should be doing other than the ones currently beeing used: t3, t4, TT, shbg, BioT, östradiol, prolactin, lh, fsh, igf-1.

thx

I will give you two answers.
On this post my best (wide net approach) answer, do blood test once/year per list below.
But you may also create another list based for example on this post:
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/522135-post3.html


On my next post I will give you answer that will make you suffer longer before possibly finding the right diagnosis, but you should make some progress with it, so it also have value.

0 iodine
1 CBC w/ diff
2 Calcium
3 Carbon dioxide
4 Chloride
5 Copper, serum
6 Ferritin
7 Magnesium
8 Potasium
9 Selenium
10 Sodium
11 Zinc
12 Alkaline phosphase
13 ALT
14 AST
15 BUN/creatinine ratio
16 Creatinine
17 Globulin, calculated
18 Protein Total
19 Urea nitrogen
20 Bilirubin, Total
21 Bilirubin, Direct
22 EGFR non afr american
23 RPR W/Titer & Conf RFX RPR screen
24 C-reactive protein CRP
25 Fibrinogen
26 Hematocrit
27 Hemoglobin A1C
28 Homocysteine, cardio
29 Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A)
30 Folate, Serum
31 Folate, Serum
32 Cholesterol, Total
33 HDL cholesterol
34 cholesterol/HDL ratio
35 LDL chol, calculated
36 Triglycirides
37 VLDL
38 Vitamin A
39 Vitamin B12, serum
40 Vitamin D, panel
43 T3 Free
44 T3 uptake
45 T3,Total
46 T4,Free
47 T4,Total
48 TSH
49 Glucose, fasting
50 Insuline, serum
51 PSA, Total
52 PSA, %, free
53 IGF Binding protein-3
54 IGF-1
55 Aldosterone
56 Cortisol AM/PM
57 DHEA sulfate
58 Prolactin
59 FSH
60 LH
61 Progesterone
62 Pregnenolone
63 Estradiol, Bioavailable
64 Estradiol, Free
65 Estradiol, Fractionated, serum
66 Estradiol, Ultra-sensitive (is part of fractionated)
67 Estrone,serum (is part of fractionated)
68 Estrogens, Total, Serum
69 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
70 Testosterone Total (included in T panel)
71 Testosterone Free(included in T panel)
72 Testosterone Bioavailable(included in T panel)
73 SHBG(included in T panel)
74 Albumin, serum(included in T panel)
75 Dihydrotestosterone DHT

 

[JanSz]

thank you for clearing that up.

after reading this i talked to hopsital lab and they confirm they have 2 tests for östradiol. 1 is called sensitive östradiol and this is apperantly the one they took when my 2nd tests were drawn as it is the only of the 2 tests that has a reference range. Doc dident know they had a sensitive test.

Okay lets say that im low on östradiol when on gel and probably even lower when not on gel, this could be the reason for my shrinking gentials that cleared up within a few days on the gel.

But the chest pain and lumps have to be connected to hrt somehow cause now a few weeks off i dont have these issues at all.

What hormone imbalances could potentially cause these issues apart from prolactin and e2 as apparantly they are not completely out of range. when quitting propecia i had some transparent/white fluid come out of my areolas at 1 time, this happend only this 1 time and the quantity could not have been more than a few ml. Could prolactin be pulsating and as such not be detected when tested? Is there any other test that i should be doing other than the ones currently beeing used: t3, t4, TT, shbg, BioT, östradiol, prolactin, lh, fsh, igf-1.

thx

Always do "sensitive" estradiol test.

Niiples---- prolactin--- get prolactin as low as possible, Dr Shippen like it at =3
make it a problem separate from Testosterone and Estrogen.

I am correcting your (red) list, replace it with:
T3 Free
T4,Free
DHEA sulfate
Prolactin
Progesterone
Pregnenolone
Estradiol, Bioavailable
Estradiol, Free
Estradiol, Fractionated, serum
Estradiol, Ultra-sensitive (is part of fractionated)
Estrone,serum (is part of fractionated)
Estrogens, Total, Serum
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Testosterone Total (included in T panel)
Testosterone Free(included in T panel)
Testosterone Bioavailable(included in T panel)
SHBG(included in T panel)

==============================================

You posted
s-shbg 40 (20-50)
s-shbg 39 (11-52)
s-shbg 45 (20-50) bah
your SHBG is rather high.
You are not going to get enough testosterone from gells or creams. You need shots.
Outside of USA-- Testosterone Enanthate, 200mg/mL

You want to get your freeT=250
You need TotalT= 1150ng/dL to get there.
To acheive that you need weekly testosterone of 170mg/week
You want shots schedule E2D every other day.
Dose in individual shot 170/7*2=48.6mg=~24.5units on insuline syringe
At the same time use HCG 250iu each shot
When starting, do accelerated dose of Testosteroneso you gae yor levels stable quicker
Day1-4dosesT +hcg
Day-2-1dose+hcg
Day-3-1dose+hcg
Day-4- no shots
Day-5-T+hcg
Day-6- no shots
Day-7-T+hcg
continue E2D system for 2-3 months then do blood test, correct your T dose, goal FreeT=250 (top of range) or BAT top of range. Draw blood on the day of the shot, time of the shot, before shot. Your SHBG should get lower as time passes so you may need less T latter on, your testis may start (increase) production, another reason for reducing (possibly) future of T dose. Do blood tests every 3 months until you see that you are stabilized.

I use 31ga needles, subq shots for both shots.
I buy these needle, possibly the will ship outside USA, if not there are other places, look around.
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95

 

[nallepuh]

Always do "sensitive" estradiol test.

Niiples---- prolactin--- get prolactin as low as possible, Dr Shippen like it at =3
make it a problem separate from Testosterone and Estrogen.

I am correcting your (red) list, replace it with:
T3 Free
T4,Free
DHEA sulfate
Prolactin
Progesterone
Pregnenolone
Estradiol, Bioavailable
Estradiol, Free
Estradiol, Fractionated, serum
Estradiol, Ultra-sensitive (is part of fractionated)
Estrone,serum (is part of fractionated)
Estrogens, Total, Serum
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Testosterone Total (included in T panel)
Testosterone Free(included in T panel)
Testosterone Bioavailable(included in T panel)
SHBG(included in T panel)

==============================================

You posted
s-shbg 40 (20-50)
s-shbg 39 (11-52)
s-shbg 45 (20-50) bah
your SHBG is rather high.
You are not going to get enough testosterone from gells or creams. You need shots.
Outside of USA-- Testosterone Enanthate, 200mg/mL

You want to get your freeT=250
You need TotalT= 1150ng/dL to get there.
To acheive that you need weekly testosterone of 170mg/week
You want shots schedule E2D every other day.
Dose in individual shot 170/7*2=48.6mg=~24.5units on insuline syringe
At the same time use HCG 250iu each shot
When starting, do accelerated dose of Testosteroneso you gae yor levels stable quicker
Day1-4dosesT +hcg
Day-2-1dose+hcg
Day-3-1dose+hcg
Day-4- no shots
Day-5-T+hcg
Day-6- no shots
Day-7-T+hcg
continue E2D system for 2-3 months then do blood test, correct your T dose, goal FreeT=250 (top of range) or BAT top of range. Draw blood on the day of the shot, time of the shot, before shot. Your SHBG should get lower as time passes so you may need less T latter on, your testis may start (increase) production, another reason for reducing (possibly) future of T dose. Do blood tests every 3 months until you see that you are stabilized.

I use 31ga needles, subq shots for both shots.
I buy these needle, possibly the will ship outside USA, if not there are other places, look around.
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95

Thank u for this information.

I have never been a big guy im a very skinny guy 180 cm tall and only 72 kgs. Dont think i ever was a high testosterone kinda guy.. Considering i felt such a big difference even on 50 mg gel (horny and just feeling okay in general) it feels alittle scary going as high as u suggest even if thats what is needed for my free T = 250. Are my concerns for more sideeffects on such a high doze valid or is my logic missleading me in this case?

 

[JanSz]

Thank u for this information.

I have never been a big guy im a very skinny guy 180 cm tall and only 72 kgs. Dont think i ever was a high testosterone kinda guy.. Considering i felt such a big difference even on 50 mg gel (horny and just feeling okay in general) it feels alittle scary going as high as u suggest even if thats what is needed for my free T = 250. Are my concerns for more sideeffects on such a high doze valid or is my logic missleading me in this case?

The idea behind all this is that you want your hormanes at the level that healthy young men have, no more and no less.

As explained, the reason I suggest relatively high dose of testosterone (as shots) is your high SHBG.
With time on this T level you could expect SHBG to get lower (also estrogen may get better) and consequently you will need smaller T dose.
The guide is FreeT and BAT levels. In healthy body all this adjustment is automatic. Here you need blood tests.
It is good that you are responding to this 50mg gel.
(please recheck/repost the gel's strenght and dose).
Among other things it indicates good or relatively good thyroid.
If you are not taking HCG, soon the effect will wear out because your testis will shrink and stop porduction.
You may end up with less testosterone in your body than you had before you started gel.

Do not over look my other post with long list of items to test.
I am sure you will find something there that you should adjust.

One more thing.
FreeT tests are notoriously inaccurate or just plain wrong.
When in doubt
Get Total Testosterone and SHBG tested and use this chart to find out where your FreeT is:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/404images/17845d1184180689-jans-bloodtest-april13-drshippenchart.jpg

It is attachment to my post #41 on this thread:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html#post899851

 

[nallepuh]

The idea behind all this is that you want your hormanes at the level that healthy young men have, no more and no less.

As explained, the reason I suggest relatively high dose of testosterone (as shots) is your high SHBG.
With time on this T level you could expect SHBG to get lower (also estrogen may get better) and consequently you will need smaller T dose.
The guide is FreeT and BAT levels. In healthy body all this adjustment is automatic. Here you need blood tests.
It is good that you are responding to this 50mg gel.
(please recheck/repost the gel's strenght and dose).
Among other things it indicates good or relatively good thyroid.
If you are not taking HCG, soon the effect will wear out because your testis will shrink and stop porduction.
You may end up with less testosterone in your body than you had before you started gel.

Do not over look my other post with long list of items to test.
I am sure you will find something there that you should adjust.

One more thing.
FreeT tests are notoriously inaccurate or just plain wrong.
When in doubt
Get Total Testosterone and SHBG tested and use this chart to find out where your FreeT is:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/404images/17845d1184180689-jans-bloodtest-april13-drshippenchart.jpg

It is attachment to my post #41 on this thread:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html#post899851

thx again.

Thyriod function seem to be good i agree maybe even too good. I always thought i had low thyriod function but when looking into it the sideeffects are very similar. The biggest difference i seem to find is that with low function u seem to be intolerant to cold and with high (elevated) function u seem to be more likely to develop intolerant to heat. What is also interesting in this is i found that in men hyperthyriod often lead to elevated shbg. Could be something to this.. im allrdy scheduled by doc to retest free t3 and free t4 in 10 days..

This is all info i could find on the testogel i was using.

The active substance is testosterone 50 mg per bag a 5g.
Other substances are: karbomer 980, isopropylmyristat, ethanol 96%, natriumhydroxid and water.

cheers

 

[JanSz]

thx again.

Thyriod function seem to be good i agree maybe even too good. I always thought i had low thyriod function but when looking into it the sideeffects are very similar. The biggest difference i seem to find is that with low function u seem to be intolerant to cold and with high (elevated) function u seem to be more likely to develop intolerant to heat. What is also interesting in this is i found that in men hyperthyriod often lead to elevated shbg. Could be something to this.. im allrdy scheduled by doc to retest free t3 and free t4 in 10 days..

This is all info i could find on the testogel i was using.

The active substance is testosterone 50 mg per bag a 5g.
Other substances are: karbomer 980, isopropylmyristat, ethanol 96%, natriumhydroxid and water.

cheers

testosterone 50 mg per bag a 5g
That is 1% gel.
With good absorption, you should use at least two bags daily.
I do not know your DHT levels, transdermals tend to elevate DHT (and I think estrogen). Some people need this boost, most do not.
Do not ever put that gel on place where blood is taken from.
Make sure there is a 30cm or more distance.
Do your blood draws in the morning before you apply the gel.
Do not eat 8 hours before draw, drink large glass of clean water one hour before draw.