DHT/T ratio

[jaydee]

How usefull is this in determining a problem and what is the percentage? My doctor told me a percentage that it should be that I cannot remember now.

My DHT seems to be lower than the T both before and after TRT. For instance when I was first on TRT, my T was very high - 1300, yet my DHT blood test (for what its worth) came back smack bang in the middle of range being 10 ref (2 - 20). While being mid range, when you compare it to how high the T was, it seems to be coming up short.

Before TRT my T was around 500 and my DHT was 2.3 (2 - 20).

Also I hear mixed advice about whether or not DHT is actually responsible for libido or not. Whats the go with this? I thought high DHT means high libido unless there is another issue going on.

 

[jaydee]

Dr John Quote:

"We also now know that urine (and serum, for that matter) DHT levels are not necessarily reflective of actual intracellular 5-AR (which converts T into DHT) activity. The best biomarker for that process is the urine THF/5-allo-THF ratio. Often we see high serum (and therefore urine) DHT levels, but low ratios of metabolites from intracellular conversion. Or the other way around. For this reason, I no longer order a serum DHT level. The urinary DHT is included in the Rhein panel, so we have it to look at anyway."

I will get onto my doc over here to get that test. At the mo he is going by serum DHT.

 

[hardasnails1973]

What do we now know about serum and urine DHT assays, Board vets?

SURVEY SAYS
"USELESS" :thumbsup:

 

[Chip Douglas]

Here are my last two serum DHT test results :


1. From last summer :

Dihydrotestosterone : 1 599 pmol/L ( Ref. range [men age 20-49] : 217 - 1650)


2. From this summer, a month ago or so :

Dihydrotestosterone : 2015 ( [male 20-49 yo] 217 - 1650) PMOL/L


I do have vertex MPB, and low to non-existent sex drive/libido whichever you choose to call it.

If high DHT is supposed to be driving libido, then something else is blocking in my case.

The above tests were done locally, well in Toronto, Canada actually, but back more than a year ago Dr. Eric Braverman measured my DHT and it came out low....so I wonder here, which is correct ?

DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE : 12.3 LO (16.0 -- 66.0)

So I'm a bit puzzled here as far as whether my DHT is high or low--but one thing remains ; terribly low sex drive.

 

[JanSz]

Here are my last two serum DHT test results :


1. From last summer :

Dihydrotestosterone : 1 599 pmol/L ( Ref. range [men age 20-49] : 217 - 1650)


2. From this summer, a month ago or so :

Dihydrotestosterone : 2015 ( [male 20-49 yo] 217 - 1650) PMOL/L


I do have vertex MPB, and low to non-existent sex drive/libido whichever you choose to call it.

If high DHT is supposed to be driving libido, then something else is blocking in my case.

The above tests were done locally, well in Toronto, Canada actually, but back more than a year ago Dr. Eric Braverman measured my DHT and it came out low....so I wonder here, which is correct ?

DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE : 12.3 LO (16.0 -- 66.0)

So I'm a bit puzzled here as far as whether my DHT is high or low--but one thing remains ; terribly low sex drive.

Make sure your test blood test is done in reputable laboratory.

Stay away from doctor's private labs and laboratories run by individual hospitals.
Make sure the blood is drawn at the lab, that is not at doctor's office or at the hospital..

 

[Chip Douglas]

Make sure your test blood test is done in reputable laboratory.

Stay away from doctor's private labs and laboratories run by individual hospitals.
Make sure the blood is drawn at the lab, that is not at doctor's office or at the hospital..

What makes me think that DHT done locally is right, is the fact that I've MPB, and much body hair.

I'm at a point where I'm in a bit of a tight spot for money, cause I'm expected to go back to school, have no insurance and have to pay out of pocket--while I can pay for these, I've had so many that I'm now wondering whether more from another lab will make any difference.

Life ain't always easy

 

[JanSz]

What makes me think that DHT done locally is right, is the fact that I've MPB, and much body hair.

I'm at a point where I'm in a bit of a tight spot for money, cause I'm expected to go back to school, have no insurance and have to pay out of pocket--while I can pay for these, I've had so many that I'm now wondering whether more from another lab will make any difference.

Life ain't always easy

Quote:
but back more than a year ago Dr. Eric Braverman measured my DHT and it came out low....so I wonder here, which is correct ?

DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE : 12.3 LO (16.0 -- 66.0)
-------------------------------------------------
It is big difference between those tests.
If those tests are accurate enough it may signify some process going on.
Do you have plausible explanation?

I have similar history of tests but it was consistent with me either using Avodart (and Androgel) (very low DTH)
or
Androgel (very large application area, very high DHT, 3x over top range)
or
Tcream (small application area, DHT over the range, 1.5x over top range)

 

[Chip Douglas]

Quote:
but back more than a year ago Dr. Eric Braverman measured my DHT and it came out low....so I wonder here, which is correct ?

DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE : 12.3 LO (16.0 -- 66.0)
-------------------------------------------------
It is big difference between those tests.
If those tests are accurate enough it may signify some process going on.
Do you have plausible explanation?

I have similar history of tests but it was consistent with me either using Avodart (and Androgel) (very low DTH)
or
Androgel (very large application area, very high DHT, 3x over top range)
or
Tcream (small application area, DHT over the range, 1.5x over top range)

um, as far as a plausible explanation, that's what a retired researcher in endocrinology friend of mine has been trying to explain too. He suspected liver involvement, and asked me to have HAV ab, anti HBs, and anti HCV done to rule out prior hepatitis infection, which would he said would explain for many of my symptoms--now those results are in, and he has them, and I'm waiting for his response. He also said that it could be a simple matter of genetics where my 5AR enzyme is naturally very active. I'd think that those DHT tests that were done locally (well they were done locally, but not analysed by the hospital lab--they were sent to some lab in Toronto) are accurate cause like i wrote, I have much body hair, especially in my back and upper back next to shoulder area, had a lot of acne while in my teens and have MBP, so this would be indicative of high DHT--I also have an oily skin type.

I'm more and more thinking the one M.D. who told me what causes my low libido is my lower than normal cortisol is probably right--this would account of the low T as well, and help with thyroid functions, although there's nothing really wrong with my thyroid at this point--so far it looks as though possible early Hashimoto's as my endo friend told me. My TPO is low btw.

 

[JanSz]

um, as far as a plausible explanation, that's what a retired researcher in endocrinology friend of mine has been trying to explain too. He suspected liver involvement, and asked me to have HAV ab, anti HBs, and anti HCV done to rule out prior hepatitis infection, which would he said would explain for many of my symptoms--now those results are in, and he has them, and I'm waiting for his response. He also said that it could be a simple matter of genetics where my 5AR enzyme is naturally very active. I'd think that those DHT tests that were done locally (well they were done locally, but not analysed by the hospital lab--they were sent to some lab in Toronto) are accurate cause like i wrote, I have much body hair, especially in my back and upper back next to shoulder area, had a lot of acne while in my teens and have MBP, so this would be indicative of high DHT--I also have an oily skin type.

I'm more and more thinking the one M.D. who told me what causes my low libido is my lower than normal cortisol is probably right--this would account of the low T as well, and help with thyroid functions, although there's nothing really wrong with my thyroid at this point--so far it looks as though possible early Hashimoto's as my endo friend told me. My TPO is low btw.

One reason to do all your future tests in the same laboratory.

 

[Chip Douglas]

One reason to do all your future tests in the same laboratory.

I strongly agree

 

[Chip Douglas]

Good point, guys.

You also have to make sure the same lab methodology is used from one draw to the next at the same lab.

Dr. John, just the same I've been meaning to talk to--have you recieved my email ?

Cheers

 

[JanSz]

Good point, guys.

You also have to make sure the same lab methodology is used from one draw to the next at the same lab.

Is there a way to enforce that.
I would appreciate some pointers, specially when dealing with Quest.

On my last test from Quest I got testosterone analyzed twice
once what I asked for;
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
but I got additionally the less desirable:
Testosterone Total
Testosterone, %Free
Testosterone, Free

They did my prolactin and PSA twice
plus they did Albumin and SHGB second time unnecessarily.

I have made my doctor to write script for my test twice so I think the script was in order to the best of my abilities.