21 YO Low T Hair is flying off my head! Help! - AnabolicMinds.com

21 YO Low T Hair is flying off my head! Help!

Page 1 of 3 123 Last
  1. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    21 YO Low T Hair is flying off my head! Help!


    Hello,

    I'm 21 years old and i have diagnosed with hypogonadism. I have very basic knowledge about this stuff, but hopefully that will change after i spend some more time on the boards.

    Basically my hair is falling out in no pattern. Mass amounts of my hair will literally just fall out accompanied by a nasty case of dandruff that i have been treating with a Tea Tree Oil shampoo. I have far less body hair on my legs, chest, feet, and pubic area. I have an extreme cold intolerance located mainly in my hands and feet. My wounds also take a very long time to heal.

    I have a diet of raw food (fruit, soaked nuts, veggies) with the exception of a good amount of omega-3's coming from Carlson's Cod Liver Oil.

    My Endo prescribed me Testim 1% which i took for about a month, but stopped after i read that the #1 side effect was baldness... Exactly the thing i was worried about most.

    After doing some research over at regrowth.com i got tipped off to Bio-Identical Progesterone. What are you guys thoughts on applying this directly to the testes for 19 days on and 7 days off? Is it correct that Progesterone is a precursor to testosterone as well as a natural 5-alpha reductase inhibitor and an inhibitor of estrogen?

    I will absolutely not be doing anything till I make another appointment with a competent endo that knows what he's doing.

    If anyone knows a great doctor in orange county don't hesitate to say something

    Any input would be really appreciated!

  2. New Member
    bearmeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    286
    Rep Power
    260

    Reputation

    I wouldn't be surprised if your low testosterone was due to your diet. Maybe you can give more details about it.
  3. coz
    New Member
    coz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    48
    Rep Power
    117

    Reputation

    Was you're hair falling out before you started the testim trial (ie - when u were diagnosed with low T - hypogondism ? ).

    If so I'd suspect maybe thyroid could be causing the hairloss (especially if it is all over loss, and not MPB). Full blood work of adrenals, thyroid, sex hormones would help to find possible causes. If you have thyroid issues, it could also be messing up your testosterone levels.

    I'd also be concerned about your diet, as mentioned above. What your diet consist of is extrememly important to your bodies hormonal systems.
    •   
       

  4. New Member
    engival's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    389
    Rep Power
    285

    Reputation

    why are you doing a raw food diet, a vegan diet?
    hmm a vegan diet is very harmful on health, espeically testosterone levels
    dopamine comes from meat/eggs, and dopamine increases testosterone.
    you need to start eating eggs and meat
  5. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1160

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    CHOL<140--> hypogonadism.

    Tea Tree oil acts as an estrogen in your body.

    If you want more feminization, apply progesterone. Who on earth ever said it "inhibits estrogen"? In fact, it can magnify the effects of E.

    Sounds as though you may have a fungal infection. I'd see your PCP about this.
    Your better off using topical pregeneolone creame and let your body balance it self out because it does start the hormonal cascade and with cholesterol low I would look towards adrenal fatgiue before doing testim..

    Is in cali go see dr mariano. My one freind who depsises drs with a passion was very content and pleased with him and gave him the answers he was looking for almost 3 years..It all came down to iodine defieincy, adrenal fatigue pre existing hypothyroidism before he even got sick. Life style pushed him over the edge he is 22


    My last cholesterol reading was 126 despite eating whole organic eggs, Cocconut oil, beef and organic butter. COudl this be a sign that I could have extremely low insulin levels for some apparent reason or too much fiber (soluable fiber in diet which could be binding with cholesterol) Could insulin be in relationship to also estrogen imbalances such as low estrodial.
    Given low cholesterol I think I would be a good candidate for some pregnelone creame also because of low thyroid problem as well. I had cholesterol of 99 3 years a go and dr said that best I have seen" IF I ONLY KNEW it was my adrenals screaming out to me at that time..
  6. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    I really appreciate your guys responses, seriously thank you.

    I'll give everyone a rundown of my daily diet

    Morning: A smoothie made up of spinach, hemp protein, coconut oil, orange, banana, and apple

    Afternoon: Some kind of Pate (sunflower seeds/almonds/walnuts) usually with a large dark green salad.

    Dinner: Usually a gigantic salad with lots of extra virgin olive oil and some more fruit.

    So I get plenty of protein (hemp protein, almonds), i take a B-Vitamin complex w/b12 in it as well as lysine. I was thinking of throwing Zinc into the mix as well.

    Do meat and eggs raise T or do specific amino acids in meat/eggs raise T? I would prefer to stay on a raw vegan diet because I really enjoy eating like this, BUT if this is a huge problem and is causing my rapid miniaturization/hair loss i will discontinue it.

    My rapid hair loss started before i was on Testim.

    Here is the kicker. I first noticed a drop in sex drive specifically last October 06, I started eating vegan in January 07. So i have felt this "no desire for sex" feeling for sometime before i was vegan. Even when i was eating a lot of animal meat and eggs.

    Dr. John - Perhaps i have Candida? I do have a weird growth on the bottom of my feet. It's yellowish raised skin right beneath my toes. Just seems like extra skin that hurts sometimes.

    You'll have to forgive my ignorance, but CHOL<140--> means that if you don't have any source of cholesterol in your diet you are more likely to develop hypogonadism?

    Thank you so much for your responses guys.
  7. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1160

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Joejoebaggins View Post
    I really appreciate your guys responses, seriously thank you.

    I'll give everyone a rundown of my daily diet

    Morning: A smoothie made up of spinach, hemp protein, orange, banana, and apple

    Afternoon: Some kind of Pate (sunflower seeds/almonds) usually with a large dark green salad.

    Dinner: Usually a gigantic salad with some more fruit.

    So I get plenty of protein (hemp protein, almonds), i take a B-Vitamin complex w/b12 in it as well as lysine. I was thinking of throwing Zinc into the mix as well.

    Do meat and eggs raise T or do specific amino acids in meat/eggs raise T? I would prefer to stay on a raw vegan diet because I really enjoy eating like this, BUT if this is a huge problem and is causing my rapid miniaturization/hair loss i will discontinue it.

    My rapid hair loss started before i was on Testim.

    Here is the kicker. I first noticed a drop in sex drive specifically last October 06, I started eating vegan in January 07. So i have felt this "no desire for sex" feeling for sometime before i was vegan. Even when i was eating a lot of animal meat and eggs.

    Dr. John - Perhaps i have Candida? I do have a weird growth on the bottom of my feet. It's yellowish raised skin right beneath my toes. Just seems like extra skin that hurts sometimes.

    You'll have to forgive my ignorance, but CHOL<140--> means that if you don't have any source of cholesterol in your diet you are more likely to develop hypogonadism?

    Thank you so much for your responses guys.
    Jesus christ no wonder your hormones are wacked..You got nothing but phytates in your dieting that are binding your minerals (zinc, magnesium, ect) and no saturated fats from animal meats why your cholesterol too low and again this would prove my theory low saturated fats and high fiber diets = lower cholesterol levels = hormonal imbalances. I bet you kick in some tofu and soy milk every day as well. Eat some cocconut oil and, beeef, 3-4 organic eggs a day some chicken or whey protein and you will resolve 90% of your problems..Your calories are why too low which is probably shutting down your thyroid and stressing adrenals and putting your body into starvation mood lowering testosteone level even more. I can bet you shbg is probably elevated from being in stravaation mode. With that diet I am surprised your pecker is still able to function..

    Le Magazine, December 2004 - Case History: Is Low Cholesterol Dangerous?
  8. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    I really appreciate your reply hardasnails1973,

    Quite enlightening... I had no idea I was causing so much harm to my body. Kind of sad.

    Would adding grass fed eggs and whey protein be enough to get things back on track or do i have to physically eat meat?

    So as long as my cholesterol gets a boost the high fiber aspect of diet is ok?

    Is Dr. Roberto Mariano the doctor you're speaking of?
  9. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2414

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Jesus christ no wonder your hormones are wacked..You got nothing but phytates in your dieting that are binding your minerals (zinc, magnesium, ect) and no saturated fats from animal meats why your cholesterol too low and again this would prove my theory low saturated fats and high fiber diets = lower cholesterol levels = hormonal imbalances. I bet you kick in some tofu and soy milk every day as well. Eat some cocconut oil and, beeef, 3-4 organic eggs a day some chicken or whey protein and you will resolve 90% of your problems..Your calories are why too low which is probably shutting down your thyroid and stressing adrenals and putting your body into starvation mood lowering testosteone level even more. I can bet you shbg is probably elevated from being in stravaation mode. With that diet I am surprised your pecker is still able to function..

    Le Magazine, December 2004 - Case History: Is Low Cholesterol Dangerous?
    I have seen number of this type reports at LEF.
    It sounds as one could become a patient there.
    I am LEF member but do not know of such a service.

    Anybody know more details on how one could become patient at LEF?

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    In that article they say that living with animals may cause parasites.
    I used to live on farm, then had dogs, cats, birds etc.
    I feed wild animals in my backyard, so there was opportunity.

    """""""After one month of treatment, we suggested a one-month parasite-cleansing program (Paraway® Pack), """"""""

    LEF do not sell Paraway® Pack
    what gives?
    How to check and how to cleanse parasites?

    I note that LEF tested for:
    Pregnenolone (10-230 ng/dL)
    Total estrogen (61-437 pg/mL)
    Why do they do that?
  10. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1160

    Reputation

    This Could Explain Low Cholesterol Levels Too


    since I check into your diet your argine to lysine ratio is WACKED
    its like 5:1 argine to lysine

    High lysine to arginine ratio diets, as found in animal protein, stimulate cholesterol synthesis, whereas lower lysine to arginine ratio diets do not stimulate as much cholesterol synthesis. are you taking NO2

    I have been taking NO2 which is argine and not balacing it with lysine !!
  11. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    since I check into your diet your argine to lysine ratio is WACKED
    its like 5:1 argine to lysine

    High lysine to arginine ratio diets, as found in animal protein, stimulate cholesterol synthesis, whereas lower lysine to arginine ratio diets do not stimulate as much cholesterol synthesis. are you taking NO2

    I have been taking NO2 which is argine and not balacing it with lysine !!
    I haven't been taking arginine, just lysine (1500mg a day)
  12. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1160

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Joejoebaggins View Post
    I haven't been taking arginine, just lysine (1500mg a day)
    May be goto 1000 3 times a day
  13. The horror
    colkurtz_spf's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    671

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Joejoebaggins View Post
    I really appreciate your reply hardasnails1973,

    Quite enlightening... I had no idea I was causing so much harm to my body. Kind of sad.

    Would adding grass fed eggs and whey protein be enough to get things back on track or do i have to physically eat meat?

    So as long as my cholesterol gets a boost the high fiber aspect of diet is ok?

    Is Dr. Roberto Mariano the doctor you're speaking of?
    Dairy products and eggs should work. Bill Pearl, a legendary body builder got his protein form those sources. You may want to supplement with creatine. As far as I know it comes from meat. Fish oils would also be a great benefit.

    I think you should look closely at your ancestors’ diet. If they were primarily meat eaters you should not strike meat from your diet. Everyone is different. Think of the thousands of years behind your genetic code. I know that my ancestors had to rely on meat. When I was your age I tried the macrobiotic diet. After 18 months I was skinny, weak and could barely function. Come to think of it, sex was probably the last think on my mind. Now I eat animal protein including red meat at least once a week. I buy nothing but hormone free products. I also eat a lot of organic vegetables and fruits and it feels right.
  14. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    Dairy products and eggs should work. Bill Pearl, a legendary body builder got his protein form those sources. You may want to supplement with creatine. As far as I know it comes from meat. Fish oils would also be a great benefit.

    I think you should look closely at your ancestors’ diet. If they were primarily meat eaters you should not strike meat from your diet. Everyone is different. Think of the thousands of years behind your genetic code. I know that my ancestors had to rely on meat. When I was your age I tried the macrobiotic diet. After 18 months I was skinny, weak and could barely function. Come to think of it, sex was probably the last think on my mind. Now I eat animal protein including red meat at least once a week. I buy nothing but hormone free products. I also eat a lot of organic vegetables and fruits and it feels right.
    Thanks again for the replies guys.

    colkurtz_spf - I am currently taking cod liver oil and have been for sometime. I've been taking about 9 grams a day (3 with each meal) so that's 810 EPA & 1080 DHA a day. What are you thoughts on this?

    I'm still a little confused. Is my body screwed up solely because I haven't been eating dairy/meat? Or is it because of the lack of cholesterol and the fiber in my diet binding to any free cholesterol? The protein shake i had every morning had a full amino acid profile, but it was based on rice protein...so no cholesterol.

    Does chicken have a good amount of cholesterol?

    Sorry to sound so dumb guys, i just want to explain this to my Endo when i see him.
  15. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    Also coconut oil seems to be a cholesterol reducer, would the benefit be in thyroid stimulation?

    Would it be beneficial to add an iodine source to my diet? Perhaps 2 drops of Lugol's solution or kelp?
  16. New Member
    engival's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    389
    Rep Power
    285

    Reputation

    i personally dont like to put to much thought into what i eat, i eat meat, vegetables, fruit, grains. all natural all organic. if i happen to eat pizza or beer so what, moderation is key.
    just what what makes you feel happy and healthy.
  17. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1160

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Joejoebaggins View Post
    Thanks again for the replies guys.

    colkurtz_spf - I am currently taking cod liver oil and have been for sometime. I've been taking about 9 grams a day (3 with each meal) so that's 810 EPA & 1080 DHA a day. What are you thoughts on this?

    I'm still a little confused. Is my body screwed up solely because I haven't been eating dairy/meat? Or is it because of the lack of cholesterol and the fiber in my diet binding to any free cholesterol? The protein shake i had every morning had a full amino acid profile, but it was based on rice protein...so no cholesterol.

    Does chicken have a good amount of cholesterol?

    Sorry to sound so dumb guys, i just want to explain this to my Endo when i see him.
    How long you been doing fish oil that long ?
    You are creating a huge imbalnace between arachondinc acid and EPA. Lack of arachondonic acid (red meat, whole eggs) and excessive fish oils will cause hormonal dysruptions excesive oxidative stress. I have been down that road before.. Plus with out saturated fats in diets you can not process EFA's properly and cholesterol is taken from teh liver and inserted into the cell membranes causing decreased cell fluidity

    2 servings of muscle milk would do wonders mixxed in some whole orgacnic eggs 2-3 a day
  18. New Member
    engival's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    389
    Rep Power
    285

    Reputation

    JoeJOe

    this is a perfect article for you to read about your diet

    http://www.drrons.com/recovering-from-vegetarianism.htm
  19. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1160

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    Good 'Ol Bill Pearl. THAT was when men looked like real men--not comic book caricatures. Is he still alive, do you know?

    GH in red meat is of absolutely no consequence. The rest--including antibiotics, worry me, though.
    And drs never even mention probiotics to patience but it has been huge part of balancing my estrogens. Be interesting to see just what this 50 mgs of iodoral is really doing to estrogen metabolism via urine test. I do feel that is actually causing me to go way low when all other variable are the same..
  20. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1160

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    You are referring to the glucoronidase pathways?
    Of course i am sure that is greek to alot of people.
    Good old calcium d glucuarate supports that as well as probiotics. actually Saccharomyces boulardii works incredible for choking off pathogenic bacteria
  21. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    hardasnails1973 - Do you have Dr. Mariano's first name? I'm looking through all these doctors, but I really have no idea who would actually help me and who will just slap me on Testim again...

    Would looking through the LEF directory be more beneficial in my situation than looking for a standard Endo?

    I just had my first omelette cooked in coconut oil, it tasted great!

    Even after i start adding organic eggs and meat to my diet should i still be taking lysine?
  22. New Member
    MacDonnell's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Age
    44
    Posts
    97
    Rep Power
    143

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Joejoebaggins View Post
    hardasnails1973 - Do you have Dr. Mariano's first name? I'm looking through all these doctors, but I really have no idea who would actually help me and who will just slap me on Testim again...

    Would looking through the LEF directory be more beneficial in my situation than looking for a standard Endo?

    I just had my first omelette cooked in coconut oil, it tasted great!

    Even after i start adding organic eggs and meat to my diet should i still be taking lysine?
    It's Dr. Romeo Mariano, and here is his website URL: Definitive Psychiatry

    I will bet that you are hypothyroid, with those symptoms. Your hair wouldn't be thinning like that if it were MPB. Also, this started BEFORE you went on TRT.
  23. New Member
    Undone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    20
    Rep Power
    99

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    Good 'Ol Bill Pearl. THAT was when men looked like real men--not comic book caricatures. Is he still alive, do you know?

    GH in red meat is of absolutely no consequence. The rest--including antibiotics, worry me, though.
    Bill Pearl is very much alive and well. He is 76 years old, lives in Oregon and still trains every day. I have not seen any recent photos, but I seem to recall hearing recently that he is in fantastic shape, especially for his age.
  24. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    I really appreciate all your replies guys
  25. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    Update:

    Hey guys i just got back from my doctor and he diagnosed me as Hypothyroid. Here is my blood work

    CHOLESTEROL 181 (140 - 200 mg/dL)

    HDL 67 (40 - 100 mg/dL)

    LDL 101 (30 - 130 mg/dL)

    FREE T3 1.73 (2.00 - 4.20 pg/mL)

    FREE T4 0.93 (.71 - 1.85 ug/dL)

    TSH 1.08 (.35 - 4.00 uIU/mL)

    ESTRADIOL 46 (20 - 75 pg/mL)

    IGF-I 127 (126 - 382 ng/mL)

    THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES 19 (<35 IU/mL)

    DHEA SULFATE 331 (110 - 510 mcg/dL)

    TESTOSTERONE 484 (241 - 827 ng/dL)

    SHBG 50 (7 - 44 nmol/L)


    He started me on 3 tablets of armour (15mg each). Will armour correct my growth hormone, estradiol, and high shbg?

    Any insights on these numbers would really help.

    *I have incorporated Omega 3 Eggs and Free Range Chicken into my diet
  26. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2414

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Joejoebaggins View Post
    Update:

    Hey guys i just got back from my doctor and he diagnosed me as Hypothyroid. Here is my blood work

    CHOLESTEROL 181 (140 - 200 mg/dL)

    HDL 67 (40 - 100 mg/dL)

    LDL 101 (30 - 130 mg/dL)

    FREE T3 1.73 (2.00 - 4.20 pg/mL)

    FREE T4 0.93 (.71 - 1.85 ug/dL)

    TSH 1.08 (.35 - 4.00 uIU/mL)

    ESTRADIOL 46 (20 - 75 pg/mL)

    IGF-I 127 (126 - 382 ng/mL)

    THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES 19 (<35 IU/mL)

    DHEA SULFATE 331 (110 - 510 mcg/dL)

    TESTOSTERONE 484 (241 - 827 ng/dL)

    SHBG 50 (7 - 44 nmol/L)


    He started me on 3 tablets of armour (15mg each). Will armour correct my growth hormone, estradiol, and high shbg?

    Any insights on these numbers would really help.

    *I have incorporated Omega 3 Eggs and Free Range Chicken into my diet
    You are missing cortisol AM/PM (at least) to figure out your adrenals.
    DHEAs is low.
    Possibly add compounded pregnenolone cream first, if that does not rise DHEAs add compounded DHEA cream.

    Your Testosterone is low, if you raise it properly you may get E2 lower and lower SHBG. Wait with using AI's.

    Your SHBG is high. To get your FreeT=250 it would require TT=1200. You SHBG should get lower when you keep TT on that level for a while. Additionally take SHBG lowering supplements.

    Assuming that your testis are not producing you will need
    Depo-T or Enanthate 200mg/mL
    175mg/week
    Use E2D routine T+HCG shots, SubQ both on same day the other day free of shots.

    HCG dose 250iu/shot
    Tdose=175/7*2=50mg/shot=25units on syringe

    Do accelerated startup
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/404im...eek-tcypionate

    Day-1=(T=4doses, HCG=1dose)
    Day-2=(T=1dose, HCG=1dose
    Day-3=(T=1, HCG=1)
    Day-4=free of shots
    Day-5=(T=1, HCG=1)
    Day-6=free of shots
    Day-7= continue E2D routine, blood test in 2-3 months, adjust T dose, keep HCG as is.
    -------------------------------------------------
    There are at least two needles suitable for your SubQ shots.
    http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant....Category_Code=
    BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95
    --
    http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant....Category_Code=
    Easy Touch U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16 inch Short Needle 100/Box Sale Price: $13.99
    -----------------------------------------------------

    Assuming your increases of Armour Thyroid are relatively smooth, do not go over 3 grains before blood test.
    Watch your body temperature and pulse.
    Using blood test as guidance get your FreeT to about top range, if FreeT4 is low add Synthroid, get Free T4 into middle range.

    All time keep Cortef handy, use up to 20mg/day as need.

    Armour advice may change if you discover weak adrenals.
  27. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2414

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    See how TSH looks awesome here, but the patient is still hypothyroid?

    How many docs--even Endo's--monitor thyroid with only TSH??? For shame!

    The problem with Free Range chickens is they are so darned hard to herd, as strays are tough to get a lasso around. Also, it smells like hell when ya brand 'em!
    Good analogy.

    When on TRT think of it as a turtle not a chicken.
    Do any adjustments slowly.

    .
  28. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    Thanks for the amazing posts guys.

    Due to constant tour i am unable to use hCG (I can't keep it cold in a hot van)

    Are there any alternatives for me to boost my T and lower my SHBG and E2? Would Arimidex help in this situation?

    Pmgamer18 has been helping me over at the thyroid forums and I am currently on 1/2 a tablet of Indolplex/DIM and i just moved up to a grain of Armour. My Doc keeps slacking on the adrenal saliva test, but my temps are pretty stable. I'm going to wait a few more weeks before i come to any conclusions on the DIM.

    I still feel pretty.... burnt out. My mood has been a lot more positive, but I'm pretty fatigued throughout the whole day. And I still have zero libido.


    Just for an overview here is everything together:

    CHOLESTEROL 181 (140 - 200 mg/dL)

    HDL 67 (40 - 100 mg/dL)

    LDL 101 (30 - 130 mg/dL)

    FREE T3 1.73 (2.00 - 4.20 pg/mL)

    FREE T4 0.93 (.71 - 1.85 ug/dL)

    TSH 1.08 (.35 - 4.00 uIU/mL)

    ESTRADIOL 46 (20 - 75 pg/mL)

    IGF-I 127 (126 - 382 ng/mL)

    THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES 19 (<35 IU/mL)

    DHEA SULFATE 331 (110 - 510 mcg/dL)

    TESTOSTERONE 484 (241 - 827 ng/dL)

    SHBG 50 (7 - 44 nmol/L)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    New tests that just came back below:


    DHT <6 (25 - 75 ng/dL)


    FERRITIN 101.2 (10- 144 ng/mL)

    LH 2.22 (1.24 - 8.62 mIU/mL)

    FSH 5.35 (1.27 - 19.26 mIU/mL)
  29. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2414

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Joejoebaggins View Post
    Thanks for the amazing posts guys.

    Due to constant tour i am unable to use hCG (I can't keep it cold in a hot van)

    Are there any alternatives for me to boost my T and lower my SHBG and E2? Would Arimidex help in this situation?

    Pmgamer18 has been helping me over at the thyroid forums and I am currently on 1/2 a tablet of Indolplex/DIM and i just moved up to a grain of Armour. My Doc keeps slacking on the adrenal saliva test, but my temps are pretty stable. I'm going to wait a few more weeks before i come to any conclusions on the DIM.

    I still feel pretty.... burnt out. My mood has been a lot more positive, but I'm pretty fatigued throughout the whole day. And I still have zero libido.


    Just for an overview here is everything together:

    CHOLESTEROL 181 (140 - 200 mg/dL)

    HDL 67 (40 - 100 mg/dL)

    LDL 101 (30 - 130 mg/dL)

    FREE T3 1.73 (2.00 - 4.20 pg/mL)

    FREE T4 0.93 (.71 - 1.85 ug/dL)

    TSH 1.08 (.35 - 4.00 uIU/mL)

    ESTRADIOL 46 (20 - 75 pg/mL)

    IGF-I 127 (126 - 382 ng/mL)

    THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES 19 (<35 IU/mL)

    DHEA SULFATE 331 (110 - 510 mcg/dL)

    TESTOSTERONE 484 (241 - 827 ng/dL)

    SHBG 50 (7 - 44 nmol/L)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    New tests that just came back below:


    DHT <6 (25 - 75 ng/dL)


    FERRITIN 101.2 (10- 144 ng/mL)

    LH 2.22 (1.24 - 8.62 mIU/mL)

    FSH 5.35 (1.27 - 19.26 mIU/mL)
    Get portable refrigirator:
    Diabetes And More | Your Diabetic Supplies Store | Search Result Page
    -----------------------------------------------------
    FREE T3 1.73 (2.00 - 4.20 pg/mL)
    If you are like me (starting FreeT3=2.9) when you reach 4grains of Armour get retested month latter.
    -----------------------------------------------------
    ESTRADIOL 46 (20 - 75 pg/mL)
    About E2 possibly other E's
    Easy on DIM alone.
    Confused e2 to e1 ?
    I suggest LEF
    DualAction 4pills/day
    TMG 2pills
    Resveratol
    Calcium glutharate
    --------------------------
    SHBG 50 (7 - 44 nmol/L)

    Get LEF product, use double of recomended dose, retest two months latter.
    Super MiraForte with Maximum Strength Chrysin
    Advanced Natural Prostate Formula with 5-Loxin
    Chrysin also afects estrogen.
    -----------------------------------------
    DHEA SULFATE 331 (110 - 510 mcg/dL)
    Get prescription compounded pregnenolone cream, 100mg/mL, use 1gram/day
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    DHT <6 (25 - 75 ng/dL)
    TESTOSTERONE 484 (241 - 827 ng/dL)
    LH 2.22 (1.24 - 8.62 mIU/mL)
    FSH 5.35 (1.27 - 19.26 mIU/mL)
    ---
    Have you been using any form of finasteride or duosteride?
    ---
    Leave this part alone for two to three months.
    Start counting time from fully implemented above recomendations.
    21 YO Low T Hair is flying off my head! Help!

    This is slightly different approach than I recomended for you here:
    21 YO Low T Hair is flying off my head! Help!

    If you are impatient, you may go with (T+hcg) or T alone.
    T does not require refrigiration. With T and no hcg, all you loose is balls, other functions mostly unaffected.
    Waiting with T supplementation (and adjusting other sides of health) give your balls a chance, never know they my like it. If your SHBG does not get any lower, the T dose I calculated still apply.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    You may want to consider full blood test as posted on my thread, post #44, you may uncover other problems.

    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    You may want to consider 10 steps and then add on top of them.
    Top 10 Steps For Achieving Optimal Health
  30. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    Here is a little update, (Keep in mind i can not use hCG, as i can not keep it cold because I'm in a touring band)

    I have continued using Armour. I'm at 1 1/2 grains currently and I'm awaiting my saliva cortisol/dhea tests before i raise any higher.

    I feel better mentally, but I'm still fatigued the whole day and have pretty bad brain fog. Sexually i have nothing. For a 22 year old i seriously still have no desire for sex and have really weak errections. I also beleive i have prostate problems. I have no pressure when I'm urinating and constantly dribble which is so annoying.

    My doc just perscribed me Arimidex, but told me to take 1 pill 3 times a week. Does anyone take this much? Thank goodness i ran this by PMgamer and he told me to take .25mg once every 3 days.

    I wanted to get your guys input on lowering SHBG through diet. Is it correct that a diet high in protein and low in carbohydrates and fiber will help out in lowering SHBG? I eat a log of egg whites and apartame free whey protein powder, should i eat more protein and less fruit?

    Any insight you guys have would really help out as I'm leaving for tour very soon.

    Thanks!
  31. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2414

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Joejoebaggins View Post
    Here is a little update, (Keep in mind i can not use hCG, as i can not keep it cold because I'm in a touring band)

    I have continued using Armour. I'm at 1 1/2 grains currently and I'm awaiting my saliva cortisol/dhea tests before i raise any higher.

    I feel better mentally, but I'm still fatigued the whole day and have pretty bad brain fog. Sexually i have nothing. For a 22 year old i seriously still have no desire for sex and have really weak errections. I also beleive i have prostate problems. I have no pressure when I'm urinating and constantly dribble which is so annoying.

    My doc just perscribed me Arimidex, but told me to take 1 pill 3 times a week. Does anyone take this much? Thank goodness i ran this by PMgamer and he told me to take .25mg once every 3 days.

    I wanted to get your guys input on lowering SHBG through diet. Is it correct that a diet high in protein and low in carbohydrates and fiber will help out in lowering SHBG? I eat a log of egg whites and apartame free whey protein powder, should i eat more protein and less fruit?

    Any insight you guys have would really help out as I'm leaving for tour very soon.

    Thanks!
    FREE T3 1.73 (2.00 - 4.20 pg/mL)

    Check your body temperature and specially pulse.
    Do not go over 90 with resting pulse.
    In my opinion you can go easy to 3grains of Armour, most likely four. As long as your resting pulse is below 90 testing will not help you much.
    -----------------------------------
    TESTOSTERONE 484 (241 - 827 ng/dL)
    SHBG 50 (7 - 44 nmol/L)
    DHT <6 (25 - 75 ng/dL)

    Your DHT is pathetic, you need big help here, transdermal testosterone increases DHT, specially when applied to scrotal area.
    You are not using HCG.
    What are you using for your testosterone?
    Get youself plastic panties, put on your scrotal area two 5grams Androgel/day. If that is too much gel, split, apply twice/day. Cover with plastic panties so you do not loose anything and occlusive panties also help with absorption. If you were using T shots, stop them, Androgel is your new source of testosterone.
    I am guessing, you do not have to shave your scrotal area, panties should be good enough.

    Your SHBG is really high and DHT non existant, you may need 3 packs of Androgel.
    Eventually the higher dose of Androgel should also help SHGB, high TT puts pressure on SHBG

    High E2 raises SHBG

    Always looking for balance.


    ESTRADIOL 46 (20 - 75 pg/mL)
    that is within range

    hard to say if you need Arimidex at all.

    You should recheck your situation (blood test) about month or two after yor start with (heavy duty)Androgel as above.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    On one of this posts it would be a good idea if you summarize what you do, supplements, medicine, complaints and what is you current blood condition, so we do not miss anything.
  32. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    I really appreciate all your support Jansz.

    I was trying to stay away from TRT, but since you've pointed out my DHT is so low i would have to do TRT.

    I think my DHT is that low because i was taking pomegranate extract at the time and i found out later that is was a DHT inhibitor.

    I used propecia about 2 years ago for about 8 months, so perhaps that has something to do with it as well. I told the doctor Derm how i was feeling...granted he's not a Endo, but he QUICKLY perscibed 18 year old retarded me propecia... I think my hair loss was thyroid related the whole time because propecia did nothing.

    Supplements:

    *3-6 grams a day Carlsons Cod Liver Oil (Whenever I eat meat)
    *Now B-100 B Vitamins
    *1 gram Now Borage Oil
    *50mg Zinc
    *200mg Selenium

    1 1/2 Grain Armour
    .25mg E3D Arimidex

    I lead a pretty stressful life of band practice, shows, and more band practice. So I'm thinking my adrenals are suspect.

    Symptoms Still Present Since starting Armour:

    * High volume all over hair loss
    * Poor stress response (during practice)
    * Dandruff
    * Hard to get up in the AM
    * Difficulty concentrating, impaired memory
    * No libido
    * Small penis/small testicals when cold (often in the morning)
    * Fatigued all day
    * Dribbling urine
    * Colder than everyone else (especially hands/feet/genitals)
    * Chapped lips all the time
    * A fever blister that hasn't healed in over a year
    * Painful calloses on the bottom of my feet

    I have sinced stopped taking my temp because i just got back from a trip, but here are a list of temps from earlier this month.

    Temps:

    * 8/2 - Average - 98.5
    * 8/3 - Average - 97.8
    * 8/4 - Average - 98
    * 8/5 - Average - 98.7
    * 8/6 - Average - 98.4
    * 8/7 - Average - 98.9
    * 8/8 - Average - 99.1
    * 8/9 - Average - 98.9
    * 8/10 - Average - 98.7
    * 8/11 - Average - 98.4
    * 8/12 - Average - 98.7
  33. Banned
    plymouth city's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,299
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation

    Baggins,
    Your E2 level is way to high especially with a so so T level.

    Any history of alcohol use

    JansZ pointed out that you can buy portable fridge for hcG.

    High E2 might also be reason for weak urine flow.

    What band do you play in Im a huge music buff
  34. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2414

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Joejoebaggins View Post
    I really appreciate all your support Jansz.

    I was trying to stay away from TRT, but since you've pointed out my DHT is so low i would have to do TRT.

    I think my DHT is that low because i was taking pomegranate extract at the time and i found out later that is was a DHT inhibitor.

    I used propecia about 2 years ago for about 8 months, so perhaps that has something to do with it as well. I told the doctor Derm how i was feeling...granted he's not a Endo, but he QUICKLY perscibed 18 year old retarded me propecia... I think my hair loss was thyroid related the whole time because propecia did nothing.

    Supplements:

    *3-6 grams a day Carlsons Cod Liver Oil (Whenever I eat meat)
    *Now B-100 B Vitamins
    *1 gram Now Borage Oil
    *50mg Zinc
    *200mg Selenium

    1 1/2 Grain Armour
    .25mg E3D Arimidex

    I lead a pretty stressful life of band practice, shows, and more band practice. So I'm thinking my adrenals are suspect.

    Symptoms Still Present Since starting Armour:

    * High volume all over hair loss
    * Poor stress response (during practice)
    * Dandruff
    * Hard to get up in the AM
    * Difficulty concentrating, impaired memory
    * No libido
    * Small penis/small testicals when cold (often in the morning)
    * Fatigued all day
    * Dribbling urine
    * Colder than everyone else (especially hands/feet/genitals)
    * Chapped lips all the time
    * A fever blister that hasn't healed in over a year
    * Painful calloses on the bottom of my feet

    I have sinced stopped taking my temp because i just got back from a trip, but here are a list of temps from earlier this month.

    Temps:

    * 8/2 - Average - 98.5
    * 8/3 - Average - 97.8
    * 8/4 - Average - 98
    * 8/5 - Average - 98.7
    * 8/6 - Average - 98.4
    * 8/7 - Average - 98.9
    * 8/8 - Average - 99.1
    * 8/9 - Average - 98.9
    * 8/10 - Average - 98.7
    * 8/11 - Average - 98.4
    * 8/12 - Average - 98.7
    Started with
    FREE T3 1.73 (2.00 - 4.20 pg/mL)
    added 1.5 grains Armour

    98.5
    97.8
    98
    98.7
    98.4
    98.9
    99.1
    98.9
    98.7
    98.4
    98.7
    98.55 average of averages =98.6F=37C
    that is as high as you want to go.

    I bet your FreeT3 is still very low, you just need to support your adrenals.

    What is your pulse when you wake up?

    Could use Phil's help here!!!

    You may need adrenal support.
    Try to add some Cortef.
    Maximum 30mg/day in divided dose.
    Rather go to 20mg/day divided dose, then stop at that level and give it good long time.
    See how Cortef makes you feel.

    Cortef is by script, If you cannot get it, use Isocort (for a while).
    Stop The Thyroid Madness » Isocort
    ============================== ============================== ==============
    DHT----- pomegranate
    I doubt that it would make actual difference.
    If you are having doubts get retested.
    I told you to put all Androgel on your scrotal area and cover it with plactic tight briefs only because of your nonexisting DHT.
    If you actually have decent DHT then go with my previous advice when I told you to do shots.
    ============================== ============================== ==============
    Make sure you get script for compounded pregnenolone cream,
    tell doctor to write you "use 2grams/day" but you actually put on 1gram/day
    You will get more product and more importantly better packaging.
    When you manage a doctor, PM me, I will give you good place where to buy it, doc will call in prescription and you will get the product in 2 days with a bill in the envelope. Quick and easy.
    ============================== ============================== ==============
    Dribbling urine
    play safe, ask doc for Flomax, have it handy just in case.
    sex feel funny (yes eventually you will have a sex) on Flomax, you may not ejaculate to the outside,
    retrograte ejaculation.
    ============================== ============================== ==============
    * Painful calloses on the bottom of my feet
    Just Feet Corn & Callus Trimmer | Sally Hansen | Beauty & Spa | Walgreens
    Sally Hansen Just Feet Corn & Callus Trimmer
    ---
    Safety Corn and Callus Trimmer
    Safety Corn and Callus Trimmer - only $3.49 at MyFootShop.com!
    ----
    Pedifix Saftey Corn/Callus Trimmer
    Amazon.com: Pedifix Saftey Corn/Callus Trimmer - 1 Ea: Health & Personal Care
    ============================== ============================== ==============
    * Difficulty concentrating, impaired memory
    Cognitex with Pregnenolone & NeuroProtection Complex
    90 softgels
    Item Catalog Number: 922
    Cognitex With Pregnenolone & Neuroprotection Complex, 90 Softgels
    ============================== ============================== ===============
    Small penis/small testicals when cold (often in the morning)
    Get this little fridge and start using HCG,
    if you are on Androgel, use 250iu/E2D or 500iu/E3D
    ============================== ============================== ===============
    Poor stress response (during practice)
    low testosterone
    ============================== ============================== ===============
    Use cortisol to help you get your Armour Thyroid at least up to 3 grains.
    Phil ended with (Cortisol + Florinef)
    You have to do some testing.
    Use my list but ask Phil to expand it in
    Adrenals and Thyroid areas
    ============================== ============================== ===============
    ESTRADIOL 46 (20 - 75 pg/mL)
    that is within range

    hard to say if you need Arimidex at all.
    Remember, your SHBG is very high.
    Higher E2 pushes up SHBG
    there may be some thing to think about.

    Make sure you retest E2 with the best most sensitive test you can come up with.
    ============================== ============================== ===============
  35. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    Jansz Thank you so much for your help.

    I actually have the the cortisol sitting in my fridge so I'm going to start tomorrow follow STTM recommendations.

    Since I'm at a relatively low dose of Armour will i need to decrease it while raising the cortef?

    Thanks!
  36. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2414

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Joejoebaggins View Post
    Jansz Thank you so much for your help.

    I actually have the the cortisol sitting in my fridge so I'm going to start tomorrow follow STTM recommendations.

    Since I'm at a relatively low dose of Armour will i need to decrease it while raising the cortef?

    Thanks!
    No, stay on your current dose of Armour, do not increase it for 3 weeks to a month.
    You have to take Cortef slowly, you are afraid of thyroid dump.
    Hopefully you will ease thru it.
    Read up on ramping up on Cortef on STTM site.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness » How to treat adrenals–for the patient and their doctors
    But also:
    Quote from above site:
    If you feel this discomfort, even after decreasing the Armour, patients find it helpful to stop the Armour completely for a day or two or more, then raise back up.

    ============================== ========
    ============================== ========
    On high SHBG:

    Read Dr Delgado's post:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/967090-post93.html

    Quote:

    one of the simple ways to clear SHBG is consistent use of the herb Avena Sativa (usually oral capsules) with 10 to 1 concentrate so a 300 mg capsule might be like taking 3000 mg of Avena Sativa, We usually use around 300 to 800 mg a day to clear the SHBG,

    either find Dr Delgado's product
    or ....

    I am little puzzled hovewer because my two favored sources,
    LEF and NowFoods do not carry this product.
    ============================== ============================== ===============
    Dribbling urine

    check your
    PSA
    freePSA
    % of freePSA

    the last one is just calculation but ask them do it
  37. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    janz,pm

    im on tour right now and i feel miserable. I started cortef according to the sticky and i just reached 7.5mg.

    My hair loss has gone into overdrive. Im not sure if that has to do with not upping my armour or being in very stressfull situations (performing).

    Cortef should help with stress shouldnt it? At what point did you guys notice cortef really having an impact on your daily routine?

    Regime:
    .25mg arimidex e3d
    1 1/2 grains armour
    following sttm on cortef so far 7.5mg

    Thanks guys

    I'll be on tour for a couple more weeks so I won't be able to do anything till I get home.
  38. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2414

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Joejoebaggins View Post
    janz,pm

    im on tour right now and i feel miserable. I started cortef according to the sticky and i just reached 7.5mg.

    My hair loss has gone into overdrive. Im not sure if that has to do with not upping my armour or being in very stressfull situations (performing).

    Cortef should help with stress shouldnt it? At what point did you guys notice cortef really having an impact on your daily routine?

    Regime:
    .25mg arimidex e3d
    1 1/2 grains armour
    following sttm on cortef so far 7.5mg

    Thanks guys

    I'll be on tour for a couple more weeks so I won't be able to do anything till I get home.
    Describe you complete protocol.
    Are you taking any testosterone?

    I am not telling you to do this, but, after the first week with Cortef and Armour I was living with therometer and heart beat/pressure monitor in my pockets, but I started Cortef and Thyroid increases every third day. I stopped at 4 grains, nothing happened, week latter I started getting Cortef down, eventually I do not use Cortef now.
    I got to 4 grains, latter cut down to 3 because FreeT3 was over the top (but no obvious adverse reaction).


    .
  39. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    Ive been on armour for a few weeks and I've made my way up to 1 1/2 grains. After charting my fluctuating temps and feeling very heavy low adrenal symptoms (daily fatigue, sensitive to bright lights, low blood pressure, low dhea, low IGF-1) I started cortef at 2.5mg. Now I'm at 7.5mg split into three doses 4 hours apart and am following the STTM chart.

    I am not on any TRT right now.

    My reasoning is wanting to get my thyroid in order before I move to other things. I believe my hair loss is related to thyroid and that is the the most important thing to me.

    I started .25mg arimidex e3d about the same time i started cortef. Phil wisely suggested that I get off it for 5 days and get back on at .25 e4d.

    Would I be doing myself a great disservice going up on armour the same time as doing cortef?
  40. New Member
    Joejoebaggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    120

    Reputation

    im really disturbed by my bottom of the barrel IGF-1. I know ths can cause diffuse hair thinning as well.

    Is this something that will be taken care of or should I try to treat it with say 1g arginine before bed?
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Replies: 36
    Last Post: 11-19-2009, 12:02 PM
  2. Losing hair . . . Is it the supps or exercise?
    By SuppKnight in forum Supplements
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 01-06-2009, 06:32 AM
  3. Creatine Mono Flying Off The Shelves?
    By Jet in forum Nutraplanet
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-20-2008, 05:38 PM
  4. 19 YO, low T, lots of questions, please read! (cliffs)
    By lector606 in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-23-2007, 10:18 AM
  5. girl is pissed off at me-mohn causes h2o ret.?
    By s.norman in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 05-30-2007, 08:42 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in