19 YO, low T, lots of questions, please read! (cliffs)
06-22-2007 07:56 PM
19 YO, low T, lots of questions, please read! (cliffs)
Hi everyone, in advance thanks for reading and I'm sorry for the essay, cliff notes at the bottom
About two months ago I went to my doctor complaining about a lack of energy and libido. I have had this problem since as long as I can remember, and it worries me big time because my sexual performance is, well, ****ty. I have trouble maintaining a hard-on during sex and before I got bloods done I had gone about ten days without wanting it at all. Seeing as I'm in a relationship with a girl I'm crazy about you can see how ****ty of a situation this is.
I got tested and my test came back less than half of the low end of the normal range. At this point I hadn't done any reading but I went on Androgel as per my doctor's suggestion. I have noticed an increase in libido and energy, especially for a couple of hours after I put the gel on. However, it seems to 'fade' throughout the day. I booked a follow-up appointment with my doctor (this guy is a GP BTW) and told him about this. He said he would redraw bloods but in the meantime he bumped me up to 7.5g. Again, some improvement.
Well, I went back again today, and got my results from the last test. Here's the messed up part: my levels were lower than they were before I started Androgel! Now, this is really weird because I really have noticed an improvement. Is it possible that the doctor is doing the wrong tests? He basically just runs whatever I ask him for. I am reading more about this subject but I'm pretty uneducated at the moment so please bear with me.
The test I got was free testosterone and the scale was 36-80. Before the gel I tested anywhere from 17-25. On Tuesday I tested at 11! My doctor's response was simply to increase the dose of Androgel to 10g. I know that this is probably not the solution but since I currently can't see a specialist I have to kinda go with what this guy wants to do.
-Libido is most definitely up from before I started the gel - before I started I could go days without thinking about sex, now I am interested in some kind of activity (oral etc) even several times daily. I'm still a bit anxious about sex though because my erections aren't the best quality
-Erection quality is better but they are still not rock hard.
-Small bit of frosting but I am working on the application. I don't get it every day.
-I have never used hormonal supplements or steroids.
-I am very physically active - weights 2-3x weekly and cardio 6x weekly (sport). I'm lean but I have a pretty small bone structure and build overall. (5'9 160 about 8% BF)
WTF do I do? I'm working on this guy but he doesn't want to prescribe HCG or Arimidex. Maybe my E2 is high? I could get some Arimidex from a friend and see what effect that has on me but I don't want to mess around too much.
I can't see a specialist until September... WTF do I do until then? I am gonna try 10g for a week or two, get retested, and see what happens next, but what can I talk to my doctor about in the meantime?
I live in Canada BTW
Thanks very much and I'm sorry for the long read
-19, athletic, low libido, got tested, very low T, prescribed Androgel
-can only see campus physician (GP) until at least Sept - Canadian resident
-tried increased dose, seeing improvement, yet tests show a decline in test even since before androgel, this is why im confused
-wondering what to ask doc to do, doesnt want to prescribe HCG/Arimidex but if I ask him to run a bloodtest that shows I need it maybe I can change his mind (what to ask for?)
06-22-2007 11:14 PM
Free T is very unreliable blood test. You should get Total testosterone & estradiol as a minimum.
06-23-2007 07:21 AM
Running with the Big Boys
WTF they doing putting you a gel before futher investigating what other causes could be?
Originally Posted by coz
Adrenals or possible thyroid dysfunction, MRI. ect. I can bank most likely you are not absorbing creame low thyroid..Fix the thyroid and possible adrenals and T should correct it self if it your balls are recieving the signal from the brain
06-23-2007 07:22 AM
You can do it the easy way or the hard way, your choice.
Originally Posted by lector606
Since you are talking about girl that you are crazy about, I hear fertility is important.
You say athletic, I think you may have been kicked in the balls, or head and have a problem ether with testicles or pituitary.
Physically active-- possibly too much for your adrenals, are you getting enough rest?
I will give you two plans.
Use testosterone supplementation.
Enough of Androgel or Depo-Testosterone or Testosterone-Enanthate and do (short) blood testing,
Estradiol, Fractionated, serum
Estrogens, Total, Serum
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Tot
You want to be at the top of FreeT and BioT
Report the other numbers.
Stop Androgel, by September you will be clean (hopefully).
Get real good testing, find out what is actually wrong with you.
You are 19, lots of life in front of you.
I do blood test that is below once a year.
Say more about your self.
You are going to be checking all kind of things.
1 CBC w/ diff
3 Carbon dioxide
5 Copper, serum
12 Alkaline phosphase
15 BUN/creatinine ratio
17 Globulin, calculated
18 Protein Total
19 Urea nitrogen
20 Bilirubin, Total
21 Bilirubin, Direct
22 EGFR non afr american
23 RPR W/Titer & Conf RFX RPR screen
24 C-reactive protein CRP
27 Hemoglobin A1C
28 Homocysteine, cardio
29 Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A)
30 Folate, Serum
31 Folate, Serum
32 Cholesterol, Total
33 HDL cholesterol
34 cholesterol/HDL ratio
35 LDL chol, calculated
38 Vitamin A
39 Vitamin B12, serum
40 Vitamin D, panel
43 T3 Free
44 T3 uptake
49 Glucose, fasting
50 Insuline, serum
51 PSA, Total
52 PSA, %, free
53 IGF Binding protein-3
56 Cortisol AM/PM
57 DHEA sulfate
63 Estradiol, Bioavailable
64 Estradiol, Free
65 Estradiol, Fractionated, serum
66 Estradiol, Ultra-sensitive (is part of fractionated)
67 Estrone,serum (is part of fractionated
68 Estrogens, Total, Serum
69 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Tot
70 Testosterone Total (included in T panel)
71 Testosterone Free(included in T panel)
72 Testosterone Bioavailable(included in T panel)
73 SHBG(included in T panel)
74 Albumin, serum(included in T panel)
75 Dihydrotestosterone DHT
06-23-2007 09:48 AM
Thank god i went to dr. shippen!!!!!
my normal doc was going to put me on GEL!
luckily dr. shippen got the to root cause and i saved myself from my previous doc being put on T Gel!
06-23-2007 10:10 AM
read every single word on this site and click every single button on this site
06-23-2007 10:15 AM
I had my thyroid checked before I started, but how is the test for adrenals done? Is it just a blood test?
06-23-2007 10:18 AM
Like some of the guys have told you not enough testing was done to find out way you T levels are so low. It would help a lot if you posted the labs with the units and ranges.
Your only 19 going on TRT is for life it sounds like you have been doing the gels for over 8 weeks. So now stoping the gels to see if your Primary or Secondary will be dam hard to do. No one can say how long you would have to be off the gels for our body to come back to where is was before you started.
What happened when you first started on the gels at 5 grams is your brain seen this in your blood. So it lower the amout of LH and FSH that it sends to your testis to make testosterone. So if the lower dose was not enough you next labs turn out lower. This happens a lot and all it means is you need a higher dose.
I don't feel you have a high Estradol problem unless you eat a lot of SOY. Your weight and % of body fat are good to good to have hi E2 levels. If anything your to low.
When you have a problem with erections for sex and the problem gets fixed your brain takes over and when you go to have sex this is in the back of your mind will it work. And this is the next thing you need to work on to be able to have good sex. Your brain will kill it everytime. So get some Cialis 10 mgs. my Dr. had me take it every 72 hrs so that I have morning wood ands can have sex with out it going down anytime I wanted it. After a time you will not need it. Also doing the Cialis every 72 hrs you don't have the sides that you would have just taking it for sex.
(WTF do I do) you ask I can't tell you but I do know this when you see the Specialist in September and if the Dr. is an Endo he will have you come off the gels and want to re-test you. His doing this will not tell him if your secondary or primary and all this will do is make you crash. I had this happen to me 7 times and have talked to many men that had the same thing happen to them. Endos are not good Dr.'s for low testosterone, Cortisol, Thyroid and so on.
You are on TRT like a lot of us started and don't know why your low. There are some tests you can get done to tell you if you have a pituitary problem. A HCG stim test or Cloimd stim test.
The tests you should have had done are at Dr. Johns site www.allthingsmale.com Read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this are the tests and why.
Like Hardasnails said you can have Adrenal Fatigue or a Thyroid problem and this can make your levels low. You can still test these.
If your in Canada are you near MI. if so you can drive to the US and see Dr. here in MI.
Or try to fine a good Osteopath Dr.
American Academy of Osteopathy
Find an osteopath in US and some other countries
Find an osteopath
General Osteopathic Council
Find an osteopath in almost any country
Find an osteopath near you in the US. Also links to site to explain what an osteopath is.
*I recommend avoiding osteopathic endos. They seem to be the same as regular endos.
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