Got my "Clomid test" results and more per Dr. Shippen's request: What do they mean?
- 06-22-2007, 05:53 PM
Got my "Clomid test" results and more per Dr. Shippen's request: What do they mean?
As some here may know, Dr. Shippen and others of his caliber sometimes use a low dose of Clomid to "rev" the HPTA, so to speak, and see what happens as a way of determining what part of the hypothalmic-pituitary-testicular axis went awry.
Just got my results and much to my amazement the brief 7 day very low dose treatment made a difference. I saw a full 50% increase in T and even greater increases in FSH and LH. Here are the results as well as some other results which I'd appreciate input on as well:
Total T: 319 (up from around 200)
FSH: 2.4 (up a good 100%)
LH: 5.0 (up over 100%)
Here are some other results which are interesting and which I'd like info on as well:
Estradiol: <32 (ref range: <52 pg/ml)
Cortisol: 18.5 (ref range: (morning): 4.0-22)
DHEAS: 250 (ref range: 45-345 mcg/dL)
DHT: 18 (ref range: 25-75 ng/dL)
IGF-1 181 (ref range: 86-220)
I get the the clomid apparently "worked", at least to the extent that my system responded, but am a bit fuzzy as to what the means and what options, if any, I now have. I'm also a bit unclear as to what the DHEAS, DHT and IGF-1 results imply.
Any thoughts or ideas? As always, thanks in advance.
- 06-22-2007, 09:15 PM
You have got wrong estradiol test.
Get ultra-sensitive from Quest, and a bunch of other estrogens while you are at it.
DHEA-low, get pregnenolone compounded cream, pills are not working (usually)
DHT -low, bad news, have you been on finasteride?
DHT-cream or T-cream straigh on a scrotal area, people a getting flamed for suggesting this. Do this when everything else fails.
Actually you are logical candidate for Androgel or T-cream, ie; transdermals.
There are tons of other tests that you should do.
Up to you.
I can post a list if interested.
- 06-22-2007, 10:02 PM
Interesting, Jansz- You ask a great question, but first allow me to clarify (more)
The clomid was just a brief test-it was a low dose-- 1/2 a 50mg (??)) tablet for only 7 days, with blood work on the 8th. Per Dr. Shippen it was only intended to "rev the engine" (his words) to help determine where the problem lies. It was a limited test only and never intended as a solution. I was encouraged that I could see any results after only a week at a low dose.
I was quite interested and snapped to attention when I saw your mention of finistaride. If I remember, that is propecia, which I tried briefly (about a month or so) a good 8-9 or more years ago or more. I was one of the supposed few who had erectile issues and dropped it rather quickly. Is it possible that a months's exposure to tht crap is the root cause years later? I wonder.......
One more thing- I did try Androgel several months back. Did nothing for me. I was told it was "aromatizing". Can't see deliberately shutting myself down for good unless all other possible options have been exhausted. To me, TRT is the option of last resort if I cannot be repaired to an appreciable extent. This is why I sought out Shippen- He is said to eschew TRT unless all else has failed. Makes sense to me. Why rebuild the motor if all I have is a flat tire?
did you feel any different on the CLomid test?
i did the same clomi test from dr. shippen.
my test went from 360ng/dl to 862 ng/dl
so dr. shippen got me on 15mg Clomi 3x a week and .5mg of Seleginine daily
I felt perhaps slightly different, but nothing dramatic. I only hit 319 or so (m)
What did he tell you with regard to this issue? How long have you been on this regimine and how have you been feeling?
What a roller coaster. Every time I think I have a handle on things I learn something new. Now I am REALLY wondering where this will go!
so 15mg 3x/wk of clomid a week more than doubled your levels?? so are you on this for life?? doesnt clomid bring its own set of sides?
no dr. shippen thinks i'll only need it for a few months.
i feel the same, but yesterday was the first day i started treatment, i only just saw shippen for the first time on wednesday.
i thought hed give me hCG but he told me clomi will be better for me.
yeah my T levels will probably stabilize around 700-900, thats why im hoping for, i'll find out in 2-3 weeks when i retest my T
I believe this tests distinguishes between primary and secondary.
With such a low response, it appears you may be primary. To the others getting great responses, secondary.
My doc placed me on Clomid after being shut down by Androgel.. I was tested after taking 50 mg/d for a month.
I showed no improvement In test levels. Doc was going to place me on HCG, but at the last minute changed his mind and said "give Clomid another month". I will be tested again in early July after being on Clomid for 2 months. I feel no better and look forward to trying HCG. If HCG doesn't raise it, I going to have the doc check for a pituitary tumor..
well im hoping Clomi plus Seleginine will help me out alot, dr. shippen talks about Seleginine increasing testosterone levels as well and having a positive effect on well being/energy.
Primary is possible, but seems unlikely as the main characteristics are missing (m)
See, also, here: http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf
I just don't know what to think- True, my level only increased to 319 from 200, but is this due to a poor response or the fact that it was only intended to be a limited and short test? Take a look at page 5 and note the test's description wherein it says a doubling of LH, etc at the 100mg ( I only had 25mg) indicates a functioning axis. I'll have to clear this all up with Shippen.
In the interim, however, what the **** does all this mean? Talk about confused......
When you were previously on TRT and did not respond, how did your doctor come to the conclusion that you were aromatizing? Is his claims backed up by any blood work or did he just assume that thats what was happening?
Shippen asks for a letter synopsis of symptoms. I mentioned this in it (more)
I briefly (one month) tried Androgel, first 1x/dayand then 2X day at the urging of my now former urologist. I now realize that is the only trick he knows, hence the term "former". During this one month my T only rose from 200 to 300--about the exact same as I sw with only one week at a very low dose (25mg) of clomid.
This whole Finistaride thing is getting me rather upset. Is it possible that something I tried to keep my hair 8 or 9 YEARS ago has come back to haunt me? If so, the makers and distributors of this poison should be drawn and quartered.
I'll obviously know more in a month, but in the interim am seeking input from the group mind, so to speak, so I can better educate myself and ask better questions, the answers to I'll pass on when I finally get them.
It just rang alarm bells when you said that you failed to respond to TRT as a lot of post-finasteride users do.
Dont even get me started on the distributors of that drug. The doctor didnt smack their ass hard enough when they were born.
Supposedly only small % of men get adverse effects, 97% are helped, DHT and hair wise.
Obviously this (minority) group need attention.
It would be useful to have some sensitivity test before finasteride is used, otherwise it is lottery.
I was holding my DHT for many years using Proscar latter Avodart. It helped me, specially when I was on 10grams of Androgel, bassically covered head to toes in that gel. I am not using Avodart for almost a year now. Always feel uneasy about high DHT and my large prostate. I just changed to Depo-T injections. Hopefully one of the benefits is lower DHT.
For someone with DHT below low band I would sugges transdermals, possibly applied to genitals if larger boost is required.
Brand name and daily dose.
It is being sold in at least two places on internet,
but we can get script.
What observation in your health prompted him to give you Seleginine?
LEF cannot say enough how good it is.
Life Extension Foundation Offshore Drugs
They talk Deprenyl, what is the name of what you are using.
Deprenyl may be one of the most effective anti-aging therapies in the world. Deprenyl works by inhibiting an enzyme that breaks down dopamine, thereby elevating dopamine levels in the brain and central nervous system. Elevated levels of dopamine can confer an antidepressant effect and increase libido. Deprenyl has extended maximum lifespan in animal studies.
Suggested dose: For healthy people, take 2 tablets a week. Anyone with symptoms of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease should take 10 mg of deprenyl per day under the care of a physician. The use of deprenyl is contraindicated with Prozac and opiate-based pharmaceutical anesthetic or other drugs.
im taking .5mg daily for afew months, its SLowGel....
its for my low testosterone, slow mind, and weak erections.
after a few weeks you should raise the dosage? .5 every 2-3 weeks based on how you feel?
Yes im suppose to increase slowly till 1mg
this isnt good alot of people dont feel much different on clomi or seleginine =[
aculpep, did Sele raise your T levels, or it did but you still didnt feel good?
i mean clomi must be the anwer for me, it raised my T levels to like 890, i mean if clomi and sele and armour doesnt make me feel like a MAN, than im not sure if anything will!
Damn-- that is what I was starting to think- What does a "failed" test indicate?
About all I can say is "damn". Actually, I could say much more, but it's all unprintable. Just when I thought there may be some hope, I am now beginning to I feel as though what little hope I had has been cut out from under me.
Not sure where this leaves me, but I don't think I'll like the answer......
What does a "failed" clomid test indicate? Where does this leave me other than "screwed"?
Seems like there a few correlations can be drawn between levels of SHBG & E2, etc and responses to the clomid test. I have rather low SHBG (11) and DHT and saw only a 50% increase in T. Too bad I am not educated enough to connect all the dots. I suppose that's why we have Dr. John and Dr. Shippen et al.
Is there anyone who can connect the dots and explain the relationship amond SHBG, DHT, E2 and total T? While I am asking, what exactly does the clomid test indicate? Does it test between the hypothalmus and pituitary, or is there something else going on?
my best friend (22) has low T around 380, his doc is putting him on
T shots, his doc never tested his LH/FSH, he told him
"LH/FSH are mostly for women, we know your testosterone is low, so T-shots should get it right up"
You are former finasteride user.
I do not know about rest of the dots but low SHBG and DHT are real big ones.
Watch out for anything that may be used for lowering SHBG.
There is thread going that discusses low SHBG, check it out.
If that was me I would spend $3k's on long blood test and try to divine something.
Assuming you have insurance or money, you are still facing problem, most doctors are afraid to prescribe long tests, insurance and lawyers peer pressure.
Look what anti-aging clinics are doing.
They take your $10000 and test 5 or 6 items, shame.
Thanks, JansZ, but I am still confused--and increasingly aggravated by. (more)
I don't know what to believe or think anymore. I am supposed to see Dr. S in another 3 1/2 weeks, so perhaps I'll know more then. Might not like the answers, however...... This whole thing is depressing me and then some. Never thought the early 40s was the beginning of the end, but that's how it's starting to look.
As for the blood work, I am keeping it in mind. Want to see what Dr S, etc has to say first before investing that kind of $$. Don't know what would be covered, but so far I've been OK.
Thanks again for taking the time to comment.
Dr John do you prefare Clomid to Tamofxien for HPTA restart?
I couldn't tell you as I didnt know anything back then. I didnt do any tests, I just knew I didn't feel right and read something about selegeline raising dopamine levels. Back then there was no reference to it raising T levels. Above a very small does it causes problems with other things so I only took small (5mg cant remember) Didnt feel anything at all. Still have the boxes though.
I assume you dont want to stay on clomid with all the dangers of vision problems. I take this was a short term test.
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