Back on Dr John's protocol -- update

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    Back on Dr John's protocol -- update


    Hi Guys,

    This is Sonny from the meso board. "Sonny" was already taken there. I am back on Dr John's protocol after being on some other things that didn't work out.

    I am doing:

    Monday: 100mg Test Cyp sub-q
    Tuesday to Friday: No shots
    Sat-Sun: 250 iu HCG on both days sub-q

    I also take 50-100mg of Pregnenelone every morning.

    Latest labs (taken on Thursday morning)

    Total T: 633 (241-827)
    Free T: 233 H (34-194)
    Free & Weakly Bound T: 439 H (84-402)
    Estradiol: 18 (13-54)
    DHT: 56 (25-75)
    Progesterone: 0.9 (0.6-2.6)
    Pregnenolone: 38 (10-200)
    SHBG: 15 (5-49)
    DHEA-s: 73 L (110-370)
    AM Cortisol: 13.8 (4-22)

    Cholesterol: 128 (125-200)
    Triglycerides: 102 (<150)
    VLDL: 21 (5-35)
    LDL: 71 (<130)
    HDL: 36 L (>40)

    First off, I feel great with this protocol (as long as I get enough sleep). I have energy, lots of strength in the gym, and the best libido that I've had in years. For that reason, I am hesitant to mess with anything. I have tried some things to raise HDL. I take 5g/day of fish oil, lift weights 2-3 times week, swim 2-3 times/week, etc. Suggestions?

    Should I worry about the low DHEA?

    I've tried so many different protocols...only to end up back at Dr John's "tried and true" method. I've learned the hard way that this is really a good protocol (for me)!

    Thanks,
    Sonny

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    Hey Sonny,

    Glad to hear you are feeling great on Dr. John's protocol. Have you tried adding DHEA before? I read from Dr. John's posts that he uses DHEA and Pregnenolone cream with all his patients now to balance the pathways but maybe he can verify if he still does or not. I wouldn't think i'd hurt to try if all else is stable. I'm surprised one shot a week works so well for you as most people I've read feel much better on multiple shots. How you feel is all that matters though but I tend to always want to tweak things too, it's the perfectionist in me.
    I'm just starting on all this myself so I'll be interested in what some of the veterans here have to say.

    Good luck



    Quote Originally Posted by T800 View Post
    Hi Guys,

    This is Sonny from the meso board. "Sonny" was already taken there. I am back on Dr John's protocol after being on some other things that didn't work out.

    I am doing:

    Monday: 100mg Test Cyp sub-q
    Tuesday to Friday: No shots
    Sat-Sun: 250 iu HCG on both days sub-q

    I also take 50-100mg of Pregnenelone every morning.

    Latest labs (taken on Thursday morning)

    Total T: 633 (241-827)
    Free T: 233 H (34-194)
    Free & Weakly Bound T: 439 H (84-402)
    Estradiol: 18 (13-54)
    DHT: 56 (25-75)
    Progesterone: 0.9 (0.6-2.6)
    Pregnenolone: 38 (10-200)
    SHBG: 15 (5-49)
    DHEA-s: 73 L (110-370)
    AM Cortisol: 13.8 (4-22)

    Cholesterol: 128 (125-200)
    Triglycerides: 102 (<150)
    VLDL: 21 (5-35)
    LDL: 71 (<130)
    HDL: 36 L (>40)

    First off, I feel great with this protocol (as long as I get enough sleep). I have energy, lots of strength in the gym, and the best libido that I've had in years. For that reason, I am hesitant to mess with anything. I have tried some things to raise HDL. I take 5g/day of fish oil, lift weights 2-3 times week, swim 2-3 times/week, etc. Suggestions?

    Should I worry about the low DHEA?

    I've tried so many different protocols...only to end up back at Dr John's "tried and true" method. I've learned the hard way that this is really a good protocol (for me)!

    Thanks,
    Sonny
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    aculpep: I find that the sub-q Test seems to be more steady and can get away with 1 shot per week. I know Dr John has said that he is against it until long-term studies have been done, but I tried it for myself and am very happy with it. Plus, it has become a good excuse for carrying a little fat around the tummy...I need it for the injection.

    Sonny
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    Ways to increase hdl:

    decrease trans fats.

    increase monounsaturated fats, olive oil and avocados.

    1-2 drinks of alcohol per day

    More soluble fiber, oats, fruits, vegetables.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
    Ways to increase hdl:

    decrease trans fats.

    increase monounsaturated fats, olive oil and avocados.

    1-2 drinks of alcohol per day

    More soluble fiber, oats, fruits, vegetables.
    exercise as well
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    Quote Originally Posted by T800 View Post
    aculpep: I find that the sub-q Test seems to be more steady and can get away with 1 shot per week. I know Dr John has said that he is against it until long-term studies have been done, but I tried it for myself and am very happy with it. Plus, it has become a good excuse for carrying a little fat around the tummy...I need it for the injection.

    Sonny
    If you are feeling good and libido is where it needs to be, I wouldn't change a single thing. If Dr Crisler can get me to where you are, I wouldn't vary a single thing. Hell, I'd even keep my bathroom trips on schedule for fear of messing things up!
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    Quote Originally Posted by T800 View Post
    aculpep: I find that the sub-q Test seems to be more steady and can get away with 1 shot per week. I know Dr John has said that he is against it until long-term studies have been done, but I tried it for myself and am very happy with it. Plus, it has become a good excuse for carrying a little fat around the tummy...I need it for the injection.

    Sonny
    What is the needle size that you are using.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    What is the needle size that you are using.
    I'm using 27g x 1/2"

    Sonny
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    Hey sonny,
    You are using pregnenolone CREAM right? Preg in pill form is useless and won't work.

    Same goes for DHEA. Preg cream by itself will raise DHEA, some may need additional DHEA added in cream.
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    I am using the pills. Do I need to go through my doc to get the cream?

    Sonny
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    Quote Originally Posted by T800 View Post
    I am using the pills. Do I need to go through my doc to get the cream?

    Sonny
    Crap, no wonder your DHEA and pregnenolone levels are in the crapper. I had a feeling

    Yes, you need to ask your DR for a script for Pregnenolone cream. Try preg only first. Get filled at compounding pharmacy in area. Just google compounding pharmacy in (insert city you live) and you can find one.

    Most are on 100mg a day. (1g cream) Get DHEA retested and see levels, might not even need to have DHEA added to cream.
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Crap, no wonder your DHEA and pregnenolone levels are in the crapper. I had a feeling

    Yes, you need to ask your DR for a script for Pregnenolone cream. Try preg only first. Get filled at compounding pharmacy in area. Just google compounding pharmacy in (insert city you live) and you can find one.

    Most are on 100mg a day. (1g cream) Get DHEA retested and see levels, might not even need to have DHEA added to cream.
    Search long enough untill you get 30grams for $16 plus shipping $4.50
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    Hypothetically speaking, the most common one I've found contains 15mg of Pregnenolone per pump. So you guys are taking about 6 pumps of this stuff per day (assuming that 15mg/pump is the most common concentration)?

    Thanks,
    Sonny
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    I'd be impressed if you find 10% Pregnenlone for $16. Mine costs like $45 for 30mL

    Wrong thread:
    Can you PM me as to where you get arimidex for that cheap? You said $50/year but maybe you meant $50/month since it's $9 a tablet?

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Search long enough untill you get 30grams for $16 plus shipping $4.50
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    No, this is at a compounding pharmacy that you need a script for. 10% = 100mg/mL 1mL a day. You can half it to save money and maybe it would be enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by T800 View Post
    Hypothetically speaking, the most common one I've found contains 15mg of Pregnenolone per pump. So you guys are taking about 6 pumps of this stuff per day (assuming that 15mg/pump is the most common concentration)?

    Thanks,
    Sonny
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    Quote Originally Posted by T800 View Post
    Hypothetically speaking, the most common one I've found contains 15mg of Pregnenolone per pump. So you guys are taking about 6 pumps of this stuff per day (assuming that 15mg/pump is the most common concentration)?

    Thanks,
    Sonny
    The problem is, it may not have the 15mg/pump.
    Better chance at avoiding bad product is in getting it by prescription, better quality and cheep.

    If you can't get a script use what you have, see if it works by doing blood test before an after, otherwise you chasing your own tail.
    I was using pills, they did not worked for me.
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    [QUOTE=JanSz;855565]Search long enough untill you get 30grams for $16 plus shipping $4.50[/QUOTE

    Just got mine 5 bottles pregnenolone for 26 bucks 2 oz 15 gms per pump Pm me for link
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    Quote Originally Posted by T800 View Post
    Free T: 233 H (34-194)
    Free & Weakly Bound T: 439 H (84-402)
    You need to keep an eye on your CBC. High Free T can cause hematocrit and hemoglobin to go too high.
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    T800

    Any thoughts on why your E2 is that low?

    How long have you been doing all of this?

    Any lasting bumps or changes in the fat where you inject?
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    Thanks guys for all of the info. Much appreciated!

    1cc: I'll keep on eye on the CBC. Thanks for the tip.

    I will just talk to my doc about getting a script for compounded pregnenolone cream.

    KSMan: I have been on TRT in one form or another for about 3 years now. I don't have much bloodwork data for sub-q injections, but based on my single result plus the results of others doing sub-q, their Estrogen levels drop quite a bit while keeping similar or higher levels of Test. When I was doing IM Test + HCG, I'd usually get Estradiol (E2) in the high 20's.

    After a sub-q inject of Test, I do get a bump in the fat for about 2-3 days. It's a little sore, but it goes away and is waaay less sore than an IM injection. Some guys are still injecting IM and then working that muscle (generally the quad) hard in the gym that day and report that it minimizes soreness.

    Cheers,
    Sonny
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    Quote Originally Posted by T800 View Post
    Thanks guys for all of the info. Much appreciated!

    1cc: I'll keep on eye on the CBC. Thanks for the tip.

    I will just talk to my doc about getting a script for compounded pregnenolone cream.

    KSMan: I have been on TRT in one form or another for about 3 years now. I don't have much bloodwork data for sub-q injections, but based on my single result plus the results of others doing sub-q, their Estrogen levels drop quite a bit while keeping similar or higher levels of Test. When I was doing IM Test + HCG, I'd usually get Estradiol (E2) in the high 20's.

    After a sub-q inject of Test, I do get a bump in the fat for about 2-3 days. It's a little sore, but it goes away and is waaay less sore than an IM injection. Some guys are still injecting IM and then working that muscle (generally the quad) hard in the gym that day and report that it minimizes soreness.

    Cheers,
    Sonny
    Can't find how often you do your T injections.
    That sorenes, is it big enough to prevent you from doing E3D or E2D SubQ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Can't find how often you do your T injections.
    That sorenes, is it big enough to prevent you from doing E3D or E2D SubQ?
    Hi Jan,

    The soreness isn't bad and I could definitely do E3D if needed.

    My only concern is that there will not be enough E2 activity. One of the main benefits of sub-q is that you seem to get just as much Test and less conversion to E2 and (and to some extent, DHT). So guys needing arimidex tend to need a lot less.

    As you can see, my E2 is already on the low side with this protocol.

    As anyone on TRT knows, getting it right is kind of a moving target. So far, this approach has worked well for me. Let's see it is doing in 4 weeks.

    Sonny
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