aculpep's Lab Work

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    aculpep's Lab Work


    Just got back all my labs finally! Very interested in input, especially Dr. John and pmgamer18 advice on next step to take.

    My doctor is great and open minded but she doesn't know a lot about treating men yet, especially E2.

    My goal is to exhaust all possibilities before going on TRT.
    I have my cbc also if needed. If I need to convert these let me know.

    Labcorp
    -------
    SHBG 62 (13-71)
    E2 46 (0-53)
    LH 5.0 (1.5-9.3)
    FSH 1.8 (1.4-18.1)
    Prolactin 8.4 (2.1-17.7)
    PSA 0.3
    Total T 765 (241-827)
    Free T 13.8 (8.7-25.1)
    T4 Free 0.98 (0.61-1.76)
    T3 Free (Triiodothyronine) 3.0 (2.3-4.2)
    TSH 0.925 (0.35-5.5)
    Cortisol Blood 8:30am 16.4
    DHEA-S 316 (120-520)
    DHT 120 (30-85)

    My treatment plans are as follows:

    Currently taking otc dhea 25mg, armour (generic) .5 just started week ago, melatonin.

    My idea is to suggest following to Dr:
    -----------------------------------
    Pregnolone cream (bring dhea up and use as precursor)
    Discontinue dhea pills if start pregnolone cream
    HCG 250iu EOD (To try to bring up T naturally)
    Continue Armour
    Start Saw palmetto & Nettle (natures way "Prostol") DHT & E2
    Start pygeum (natures way)

    Will pregnolone cream help?
    Should I go on arimidex for E2?
    How long to try HCG and what else to try before going on T cream?

    My hope is once I get E2 and DHT down and the armour starts working that I wont need T at all.
    Oh, I am also type 1 diabetic so I will log what affect everything has on my blood sugars for others to know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    Just got back all my labs finally! Very interested in input, especially Dr. John and pmgamer18 advice on next step to take.

    My doctor is great and open minded but she doesn't know a lot about treating men yet, especially E2.

    My goal is to exhaust all possibilities before going on TRT.
    I have my cbc also if needed. If I need to convert these let me know.

    Labcorp
    -------
    SHBG 62 (13-71)
    E2 46 (0-53)
    LH 5.0 (1.5-9.3)
    FSH 1.8 (1.4-18.1)
    Prolactin 8.4 (2.1-17.7)
    PSA 0.3
    Total T 765 (241-827)
    Free T 13.8 (8.7-25.1)
    T4 Free 0.98 (0.61-1.76)
    T3 Free (Triiodothyronine) 3.0 (2.3-4.2)
    TSH 0.925 (0.35-5.5)
    Cortisol Blood 8:30am 16.4
    DHEA-S 316 (120-520)
    DHT 120 (30-85)

    My treatment plans are as follows:

    Currently taking otc dhea 25mg, armour (generic) .5 just started week ago, melatonin.

    My idea is to suggest following to Dr:
    -----------------------------------
    Pregnolone cream (bring dhea up and use as precursor)
    Discontinue dhea pills if start pregnolone cream
    HCG 250iu EOD (To try to bring up T naturally)
    Continue Armour
    Start Saw palmetto & Nettle (natures way "Prostol") DHT & E2
    Start pygeum (natures way)

    Will pregnolone cream help?
    Should I go on arimidex for E2?
    How long to try HCG and what else to try before going on T cream?

    My hope is once I get E2 and DHT down and the armour starts working that I wont need T at all.
    Oh, I am also type 1 diabetic so I will log what affect everything has on my blood sugars for others to know.

    Gee, elevated SHBG and low freeT, who wouldv'e thunk it

    Your bloodwork is similar to alot I see, you are estrogen dominant. High TT, low FT almost is always exclusive with high SHBG and E2.

    Your LH is elevated, however, I think your body probably isn't hypogonadal all you need is something to lower SHBG and E2, and simultaneously raise DHEA and keep DHT in check.

    You are in luck, I know just the thing. You need

    Chrysin - lower SHBG and keep E2 in check
    Pregnenolone - lower DHT and raise DHEA
    DHEA
    Resveratrol - lower E2

    I know just the product, PM me.
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    So you don't think I will need TRT or HCG?
    I am putting together a list to give to my dr for what I need. I figure I will get the script for pregnolone cream and see if that raises my dhea before taking extra dhea. If I need more I'll have her add it in the compound cream. I much prefer that than pills, I dont absorb pills well.

    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Gee, elevated SHBG and low freeT, who wouldv'e thunk it

    Your bloodwork is similar to alot I see, you are estrogen dominant. High TT, low FT almost is always exclusive with high SHBG and E2.

    Your LH is elevated, however, I think your body probably isn't hypogonadal all you need is something to lower SHBG and E2, and simultaneously raise DHEA and keep DHT in check.

    You are in luck, I know just the thing. You need

    Chrysin - lower SHBG and keep E2 in check
    Pregnenolone - lower DHT and raise DHEA
    DHEA
    Resveratrol - lower E2

    I know just the product, PM me.
    •   
       

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    What are your symptoms ? Do you have your bloodwork prior to you went on DHEA ? what was your Total T then ?





    PlyMouth: Isn't it posible that DHEA he is taking is converting to T and hence his body is makin less T naturally. He might need HCG to wake up testes . Just a thought.
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    I wasn't taking DHEA prior to the bloodwork. Free T has been the same for 2 years so nothing's changed much. DHEA is a precursor and has been shown to raise T not lower it. It just provides the building blocks to make your own T. LH being high gives some hint but I would have expected for the FSH to be high also.

    Strength decrease, gaining weight, mild depression, especially more weepy so to speak. Hair just started turning grey, not sure if any relation. Zero libido, ED, very low motivation. Only gotten worse and worse past years but I kinda mucked through it. Hard to wake up in the morning.

    Quote Originally Posted by dcguy4u View Post
    What are your symptoms ? Do you have your bloodwork prior to you went on DHEA ? what was your Total T then ?





    PlyMouth: Isn't it posible that DHEA he is taking is converting to T and hence his body is makin less T naturally. He might need HCG to wake up testes . Just a thought.
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    sypmtoms ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcguy4u View Post
    sypmtoms ?
    I agree you are estogen dominant and lower the shbg and lower e2 would probably be the simpliest solution to this Giving the body the raw building blocks would be the correct start with controling the e2 would pretty much remedy the problem. Hcg I do not think would be needed because that would only push aromatase higher and right now that is not what you need

    to control aromatase
    vitamin C 1000 x 3 times a day
    zinc 80 mgs total or just add ZMA along with multivitamin 2 mgs copper
    looose some body fat proper lifestyle and sleep patterns can alter body patterns
    reservatrol 100 mgs


    controls estrogen metabolism

    calcium d glucurate 200-500 mgs - flushes out estrogens
    1 tsp fish oils
    tmg 1000 mgs BID or sam-e 200-400 BID
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    T3 Free (Triiodothyronine) 3.0 (2.3-4.2)
    ---------------------------------------
    You are low here.
    3.820 <--FT3 start of upper 20%
    3.725 <--FT3 start of upper 25%
    3.567 <--FT3 start of upper 33%
    3.250 <--FT3 start of upper 50%
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    Yeah I'm in my 2nd week of .5 armour (generic) but haven't felt any better on it yet. Wondering how long it takes to kick in.

    The reason I contemplated using HCG was my gonads most of the time are pulled up tight. I thought that meant that I wasn't producing much T but not sure what it means.

    With an E2 of >50 won't that take something stronger like arimitaze to bring it down?



    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    T3 Free (Triiodothyronine) 3.0 (2.3-4.2)
    ---------------------------------------
    You are low here.
    3.820 <--FT3 start of upper 20%
    3.725 <--FT3 start of upper 25%
    3.567 <--FT3 start of upper 33%
    3.250 <--FT3 start of upper 50%
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    I read that Dr. Shippen likes to see Prolactin at ~3 and mine is at 8.4. What will bringing this down do for me?

    Prolactin 8.4 (2.1-17.7)

    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Gee, elevated SHBG and low freeT, who wouldv'e thunk it

    Your bloodwork is similar to alot I see, you are estrogen dominant. High TT, low FT almost is always exclusive with high SHBG and E2.

    Your LH is elevated, however, I think your body probably isn't hypogonadal all you need is something to lower SHBG and E2, and simultaneously raise DHEA and keep DHT in check.

    You are in luck, I know just the thing. You need

    Chrysin - lower SHBG and keep E2 in check
    Pregnenolone - lower DHT and raise DHEA
    DHEA
    Resveratrol - lower E2

    I know just the product, PM me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    I read that Dr. Shippen likes to see Prolactin at ~3 and mine is at 8.4. What will bringing this down do for me?

    Prolactin 8.4 (2.1-17.7)
    Melatonin lowers prolactin beleive it or not ..Need to find the article research but remember reading in .nutrution.gov data base
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    I wasn't taking DHEA prior to the bloodwork. Free T has been the same for 2 years so nothing's changed much. DHEA is a precursor and has been shown to raise T not lower it. It just provides the building blocks to make your own T. LH being high gives some hint but I would have expected for the FSH to be high also.

    Strength decrease, gaining weight, mild depression, especially more weepy so to speak. Hair just started turning grey, not sure if any relation. Zero libido, ED, very low motivation. Only gotten worse and worse past years but I kinda mucked through it. Hard to wake up in the morning.
    All symptoms of being estrogen dominant. Check your PM, I think going on HRT would be a last resort.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    I read that Dr. Shippen likes to see Prolactin at ~3 and mine is at 8.4. What will bringing this down do for me?

    Prolactin 8.4 (2.1-17.7)
    Prolactin can block response from LH, that may be why it is higher.
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    Ok here is my take on this first you don't need TRT or HCG your levels are good. Your SHBG is to high with your estradiol. Getting this down with some Arimidex .25mgs every 2 to 3 days should take care of this. I know what Shippen says in his book about Prolactin but the book is dated.
    http://www.dpcweb.com/documents/news...ts/zb170-b.pdf

    Free T3 and T4 are below mid range stay on the armour and up the dose every 2 weeks by 15 mgs. But do chart your Temps so you know how your doing.
    http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp#directions

    DHEA looks ok can be a little higher but taking this can drive up E2.

    DHT not high enough to be a problem.
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reform8.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    Just got back all my labs finally! Very interested in input, especially Dr. John and pmgamer18 advice on next step to take.

    My doctor is great and open minded but she doesn't know a lot about treating men yet, especially E2.

    My goal is to exhaust all possibilities before going on TRT.
    I have my cbc also if needed. If I need to convert these let me know.

    Labcorp
    -------
    SHBG 62 (13-71)
    E2 46 (0-53)
    LH 5.0 (1.5-9.3)
    FSH 1.8 (1.4-18.1)
    Prolactin 8.4 (2.1-17.7)
    PSA 0.3
    Total T 765 (241-827)
    Free T 13.8 (8.7-25.1)
    T4 Free 0.98 (0.61-1.76)
    T3 Free (Triiodothyronine) 3.0 (2.3-4.2)
    TSH 0.925 (0.35-5.5)
    Cortisol Blood 8:30am 16.4
    DHEA-S 316 (120-520)
    DHT 120 (30-85)

    My treatment plans are as follows:

    Currently taking otc dhea 25mg, armour (generic) .5 just started week ago, melatonin.

    My idea is to suggest following to Dr:
    -----------------------------------
    Pregnolone cream (bring dhea up and use as precursor)
    Discontinue dhea pills if start pregnolone cream
    HCG 250iu EOD (To try to bring up T naturally)
    Continue Armour
    Start Saw palmetto & Nettle (natures way "Prostol") DHT & E2
    Start pygeum (natures way)

    Will pregnolone cream help?
    Should I go on arimidex for E2?
    How long to try HCG and what else to try before going on T cream?

    My hope is once I get E2 and DHT down and the armour starts working that I wont need T at all.
    Oh, I am also type 1 diabetic so I will log what affect everything has on my blood sugars for others to know.
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    Yeah I was wondering whether to add DHEA to my compound cream in the beginning since I understand Pregnenolone raises it also. I'm not that low so I think I'm going to just start with Preg cream and add in other stuff later after I see what affect it has.

    Now in regards to DHT I'm a little confused... It's pretty high, even off the labcorp reference range. My theory from my research so far is that my DHT is probably high to protect from higher E2 levels. But high DHT lowers T levels. SO will lowering my E2 result in lower DHT and thus higher Free T levels? If not should I not try to lower my DHT since it lowers my T levels?

    Right now other than herbal stuff I am at the conslusion to only use Preg cream. Open to input to the contrary. DHEA I don't think I need yet since Preg will raise it. Chrysin I will look at adding maybe to raise Free T later but don't want to start off with too many things in the pot. Armour is a definite but I'm going to switch to brand name since it's only like $2 more at samsclub vs generic.
    I'm kinda scared of the Arimidex due to, price, trying to get it covered by insurance, and driving my E2 too low. Should I wait and see what the herbals and Preg do first?
    And is my understanding that my Total T means I'm really making enough T but since Free T is low it's getting bound to too many things resulting in not enough available for use where it's needed? That's good news if I don't need TRT although I want the benefit of getting my muscle and strength back!

    Now, how much Pregnenolone cream? 25mg?




    "DHT can actually be used to treat benign
    prostate hypertrophy (BPH)!"

    As I started to explain before, DHT is a strong androgen that will signal the pituitary to decrease the production of gonadotropins. The decrease in gonadotropins will then cause less testosterone to be produced which will in turn cause the estrogen levels to drop. The resulting change in the hormonal milieu (high DHT, low estrogen) then apparently results in a regression of BPH. The clinical application of this theory is discussed in US patent 5,648,350 Dihydrotestosterone for use in androgenotherapy.

    The following two paragraphs taken from the patent study illustrates the results:

    In 27 subjects in which the plasma DHT level was controlled, so as to modulate the administered doses, said levels have been increased to 2.5 to 6 ng/ml. There resulted a decrease in gonadotrophy as well as in the plasma levels of testosterone which exceeded at least 1.5 ng/ ml (from 0.5 to 1.4 according to the case); as to the estradiol plasma levels, these decreased by 50% .

    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Ok here is my take on this first you don't need TRT or HCG your levels are good. Your SHBG is to high with your estradiol. Getting this down with some Arimidex .25mgs every 2 to 3 days should take care of this. I know what Shippen says in his book about Prolactin but the book is dated.
    http://www.dpcweb.com/documents/news...ts/zb170-b.pdf

    Free T3 and T4 are below mid range stay on the armour and up the dose every 2 weeks by 15 mgs. But do chart your Temps so you know how your doing.
    http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp#directions

    DHEA looks ok can be a little higher but taking this can drive up E2.

    DHT not high enough to be a problem.
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reform8.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep
    Hey JanSz,

    pmgamer18 said you take Pregnenolone cream? I am trying to figure out how much to start out with. Can I ask how much you take?

    Thanks!
    I take pregnenolone cream made by
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com
    one needs prescription for that cream but I think it is worth it since one knows that he gets the real thing.
    It is 100mg/1gram and I take 1gram/day.
    Unfortunately on my last blood test Quest screwed and skipped pregnenolone levels.
    I sugest that you ask doctor to write prescription for
    100mg/1gram, 2grams daily, 12 refills
    You will end up with
    1. more cream
    2. easier to use packaging (more important), they packge for a month supply. 30gram vial is not convenient to use, 60gram vial is easier to use.
    Eventually your blood tests will tell you how much to actually use. I have this understanding with my doc, works better for me.
    You will save on shipping if you reorder more than one month supply.

    For your information, they can make creams with
    DHEA, pregnenolone, testosterone, chrysin.
    When I asked them last time they could make a one cream that would have in one gram:
    DHEA-50mg
    Pregnenolone-50mg
    Testosterone-50mg
    Chrysin-50mg
    ============================== ========
    Looking at your blood test I would say that
    SHBG is high, think Chrysin cream or similar
    E2 is most likely high but your test is suspect
    Prolactin is little high but not a first pririty
    Testosterone nice, lucky bastard
    I already comented on low FreeT3, in my case, having Cortisol levels similar to yours I ramped up Armour quickly (up to 4 grains within a month) but all the time backed up with 2x5grams of Cortef. After I reached 4grains I withdrew Cortef. Eventually settled for 3 grains. Suggest that you do test after you reach 3grains (assuming you wont have problems in between).
    DHEA could be higher, but do not use DHEA supplements. Try and see how you do after pregnrnolone cream, 1gram/day.

    Try to do more testing, at Quest if possible.
    Good luck.
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    JanSz,

    Does this look right? Called compounding pharmacy and they have Chrysin so adding that. He can add Resveratol but have to order and little pricier so going to do pills for now.
    I might have a hard time convincing her of Cortef since my cortisol is at 16. Not sure how that reacts with Diabetes also, normally corticosteroids is contraindicated with diabetes due to it affecting glucose control.

    Pregnenolone 100mg/1gram
    Chrysin 50mg/1gram

    2grams per day?

    OR

    Pregnenolone 100mg/1gram
    Chrysin 25mg/1gram

    2grams a day

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I take pregnenolone cream made by
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com
    one needs prescription for that cream but I think it is worth it since one knows that he gets the real thing.
    It is 100mg/1gram and I take 1gram/day.
    Unfortunately on my last blood test Quest screwed and skipped pregnenolone levels.
    I sugest that you ask doctor to write prescription for
    100mg/1gram, 2grams daily, 12 refills
    You will end up with
    1. more cream
    2. easier to use packaging (more important), they packge for a month supply. 30gram vial is not convenient to use, 60gram vial is easier to use.
    Eventually your blood tests will tell you how much to actually use. I have this understanding with my doc, works better for me.
    You will save on shipping if you reorder more than one month supply.

    For your information, they can make creams with
    DHEA, pregnenolone, testosterone, chrysin.
    When I asked them last time they could make a one cream that would have in one gram:
    DHEA-50mg
    Pregnenolone-50mg
    Testosterone-50mg
    Chrysin-50mg
    ============================== ========
    Looking at your blood test I would say that
    SHBG is high, think Chrysin cream or similar
    E2 is most likely high but your test is suspect
    Prolactin is little high but not a first pririty
    Testosterone nice, lucky bastard
    I already comented on low FreeT3, in my case, having Cortisol levels similar to yours I ramped up Armour quickly (up to 4 grains within a month) but all the time backed up with 2x5grams of Cortef. After I reached 4grains I withdrew Cortef. Eventually settled for 3 grains. Suggest that you do test after you reach 3grains (assuming you wont have problems in between).
    DHEA could be higher, but do not use DHEA supplements. Try and see how you do after pregnrnolone cream, 1gram/day.

    Try to do more testing, at Quest if possible.
    Good luck.
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    Dont mess with your DHT take my word for this it is over the top of the range but not a big problem unless it 2 to 3 x's over you start messing with it and get it to come down and you can lose your libido or make it worse. If your not going to try Arimidex then get this Indolplex/DIM I have used this and told many men to try it just got a post from a Matt that he got his wood back taking this.
    http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html
    Start with one tablet at dinner time in a week you should have some dam strong morning wood this means you have your E2 in the zone. Keep taking this but if your wood stops your going to low with your E2 so stop until it comes back that go back on it but cut the tablet in half. Here is a link to Matt's thread go and read it.
    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    Yeah I was wondering whether to add DHEA to my compound cream in the beginning since I understand Pregnenolone raises it also. I'm not that low so I think I'm going to just start with Preg cream and add in other stuff later after I see what affect it has.

    Now in regards to DHT I'm a little confused... It's pretty high, even off the labcorp reference range. My theory from my research so far is that my DHT is probably high to protect from higher E2 levels. But high DHT lowers T levels. SO will lowering my E2 result in lower DHT and thus higher Free T levels? If not should I not try to lower my DHT since it lowers my T levels?

    Right now other than herbal stuff I am at the conslusion to only use Preg cream. Open to input to the contrary. DHEA I don't think I need yet since Preg will raise it. Chrysin I will look at adding maybe to raise Free T later but don't want to start off with too many things in the pot. Armour is a definite but I'm going to switch to brand name since it's only like $2 more at samsclub vs generic.
    I'm kinda scared of the Arimidex due to, price, trying to get it covered by insurance, and driving my E2 too low. Should I wait and see what the herbals and Preg do first?
    And is my understanding that my Total T means I'm really making enough T but since Free T is low it's getting bound to too many things resulting in not enough available for use where it's needed? That's good news if I don't need TRT although I want the benefit of getting my muscle and strength back!

    Now, how much Pregnenolone cream? 25mg?




    "DHT can actually be used to treat benign
    prostate hypertrophy (BPH)!"

    As I started to explain before, DHT is a strong androgen that will signal the pituitary to decrease the production of gonadotropins. The decrease in gonadotropins will then cause less testosterone to be produced which will in turn cause the estrogen levels to drop. The resulting change in the hormonal milieu (high DHT, low estrogen) then apparently results in a regression of BPH. The clinical application of this theory is discussed in US patent 5,648,350 Dihydrotestosterone for use in androgenotherapy.

    The following two paragraphs taken from the patent study illustrates the results:

    In 27 subjects in which the plasma DHT level was controlled, so as to modulate the administered doses, said levels have been increased to 2.5 to 6 ng/ml. There resulted a decrease in gonadotrophy as well as in the plasma levels of testosterone which exceeded at least 1.5 ng/ ml (from 0.5 to 1.4 according to the case); as to the estradiol plasma levels, these decreased by 50% .
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    JanSz,

    Does this look right? Called compounding pharmacy and they have Chrysin so adding that. He can add Resveratol but have to order and little pricier so going to do pills for now.
    I might have a hard time convincing her of Cortef since my cortisol is at 16. Not sure how that reacts with Diabetes also, normally corticosteroids is contraindicated with diabetes due to it affecting glucose control.

    Pregnenolone 100mg/1gram
    Chrysin 50mg/1gram

    2grams per day?

    OR

    Pregnenolone 100mg/1gram
    Chrysin 25mg/1gram

    2grams a day
    Pregnenolone 100mg/1gram
    Chrysin 50mg/1gram

    2grams per day?
    =============
    Not sure what to advice you.
    Best, decide on something, test 4-6 weeks latter, go from there.

    Check about Resveratol.
    Last time I talked to them, they did not have it.
    Talked to another pharmacy, no problem.
    How do you get the resveratol, ... get pills, open it, put in the cream.
    What about all the inerts that are in pills that will be messing absorbtion........ no clue, jaw fall off.
    Check with WIntPharmacy how they get the resveratol, its purity, if it sounds good I will take it myself.
    ============================== ===
    I use Tcream and pregnenolone cream only on my calfs, because I handle infant grandson.
    With 3 grams I am running out of skin.
    Wonder if I need te same precautions with the other???
    DHES--yes, be careful
    Chrysin---not sure
    Resveratol-- not sure
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Pregnenolone 100mg/1gram
    Chrysin 50mg/1gram

    2grams per day?
    =============
    Not sure what to advice you.
    Best, decide on something, test 4-6 weeks latter, go from there.

    Check about Resveratol.
    Last time I talked to them, they did not have it.
    Talked to another pharmacy, no problem.
    How do you get the resveratol, ... get pills, open it, put in the cream.
    What about all the inerts that are in pills that will be messing absorbtion........ no clue, jaw fall off.
    Check with WIntPharmacy how they get the resveratol, its purity, if it sounds good I will take it myself.
    ============================== ===
    I use Tcream and pregnenolone cream only on my calfs, because I handle infant grandson.
    With 3 grams I am running out of skin.
    Wonder if I need te same precautions with the other???
    DHES--yes, be careful
    Chrysin---not sure
    Resveratol-- not sure

    You can't crush pills and put into cream, substances need to be chemically done in lab, might have something to do with molecular weight and purity

    Resveratrol's anti estrogen properties looks to be not panning out as well as expected, might not be worth the cost. People on 100mg worth of resveratrol cream not seeing much anti aromatase activity on bloodwork. Complete saturation occurs at nearly 300mg of resveratrol, this may be to much cream and to costly and not worth it. Resveratrols anti inflammatory and cancer fighting properties are gold, but might not be cost worthy.

    I think Chrysin + Preg and be done with it. Preg will lower DHT and raise steroid hormones, including DHEA and T. Chrysin will lower SHBG and E. Possibly could stack ZMA and DIM with it.

    I have been on DIM for 3 days and have noticed an effect already, feeling more T like and less E like, not placebo because I didnt expect much.
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    Ok now I understand. The packaging part threw me off. Script is for 2grams a day but I only take one. Got it. So equals Preg 100mg and Chrysin 50mg total.


    I sugest that you ask doctor to write prescription for
    100mg/1gram, 2grams daily, 12 refills
    You will end up with
    1. more cream
    2. easier to use packaging (more important), they packge for a month supply. 30gram vial is not convenient to use, 60gram vial is easier to use.
    Eventually your blood tests will tell you how much to actually use. I have this understanding with my doc, works better for me.
    You will save on shipping if you reorder more than one month supply.


    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Pregnenolone 100mg/1gram
    Chrysin 50mg/1gram

    2grams per day?
    =============
    Not sure what to advice you.
    Best, decide on something, test 4-6 weeks latter, go from there.

    Check about Resveratol.
    Last time I talked to them, they did not have it.
    Talked to another pharmacy, no problem.
    How do you get the resveratol, ... get pills, open it, put in the cream.
    What about all the inerts that are in pills that will be messing absorbtion........ no clue, jaw fall off.
    Check with WIntPharmacy how they get the resveratol, its purity, if it sounds good I will take it myself.
    ============================== ===
    I use Tcream and pregnenolone cream only on my calfs, because I handle infant grandson.
    With 3 grams I am running out of skin.
    Wonder if I need te same precautions with the other???
    DHES--yes, be careful
    Chrysin---not sure
    Resveratol-- not sure
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    Sounds good to me, I'm going to do the Preg, Chrysin, DIM, nature's way stuff, armour, and melatonin and see where that gets me. I'll post updates when I get them.

    Can you post Matt's link when you get a chance?

    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Dont mess with your DHT take my word for this it is over the top of the range but not a big problem unless it 2 to 3 x's over you start messing with it and get it to come down and you can lose your libido or make it worse. If your not going to try Arimidex then get this Indolplex/DIM I have used this and told many men to try it just got a post from a Matt that he got his wood back taking this.
    http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html
    Start with one tablet at dinner time in a week you should have some dam strong morning wood this means you have your E2 in the zone. Keep taking this but if your wood stops your going to low with your E2 so stop until it comes back that go back on it but cut the tablet in half. Here is a link to Matt's thread go and read it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    Sounds good to me, I'm going to do the Preg, Chrysin, DIM, nature's way stuff, armour, and melatonin and see where that gets me. I'll post updates when I get them.

    Can you post Matt's link when you get a chance?

    Thanks
    Sorry had it and did not put it in.
    http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...pic.php?t=8095
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Dont mess with your DHT take my word for this it is over the top of the range but not a big problem unless it 2 to 3 x's over you start messing with it and get it to come down and you can lose your libido or make it worse. If your not going to try Arimidex then get this Indolplex/DIM I have used this and told many men to try it just got a post from a Matt that he got his wood back taking this.
    http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html
    Start with one tablet at dinner time in a week you should have some dam strong morning wood this means you have your E2 in the zone. Keep taking this but if your wood stops your going to low with your E2 so stop until it comes back that go back on it but cut the tablet in half. Here is a link to Matt's thread go and read it.
    .

    if you boners stop try adding TMG because your are probably an undermethylator like 50-60% of the population. or just start TMG with the DIM and it may keep you going with out causing your wood to drop. i am convinced its not the drop in e2 but inability to metabolize estrogen causing back loggin in the liver..
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    Anyone know how long armour takes to start working? I've been on .5 grains for 2 weeks and I've only gotten worse. All I did mostly last week was come home and lay on the couch and go to sleep I was so tired. I felt better before the armour it seemed. I'm starting to consider just going on TRT. My depression has only gotten worse too. My cortisol was ok so would cortef help at all with a morning cortisol of 16? I started pregnenlone cream but only a few days now. I thought I'd be feeling better by now not worse.
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    Update:

    Well the thyroid doesn't seem to be doing anything, I've actually gotten worse and felt way more tired while on just .5 grains. I stopped it and I felt better since then and temp was 98.2 the other day.

    Tried cortef while on it one day (5mg) but didnt do much for fatigue. Luckily everything is so cheap I don't mind trying stuff.

    Pregnenlone cream after first day doesn't seem to help much either.

    Next step I'm going to ask my Dr. to let me try arimidex .5mg ED. I think until I get my E2 down (currently 46) nothing is going to make much difference. Doesn't seem to anyway. If that doesn't work I'm going on T.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    Update:

    Well the thyroid doesn't seem to be doing anything, I've actually gotten worse and felt way more tired while on just .5 grains. I stopped it and I felt better since then and temp was 98.2 the other day.

    Tried cortef while on it one day (5mg) but didnt do much for fatigue. Luckily everything is so cheap I don't mind trying stuff.

    Pregnenlone cream after first day doesn't seem to help much either.

    Next step I'm going to ask my Dr. to let me try arimidex .5mg ED. I think until I get my E2 down (currently 46) nothing is going to make much difference. Doesn't seem to anyway. If that doesn't work I'm going on T.
    My e2 is at 73 so you got me beat HAHAHA
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    No arimidex? That's stuff's expensive though.

    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    My e2 is at 73 so you got me beat HAHAHA
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    No arimidex? That's stuff's expensive though.
    quest did wrong test and Dr assumed it was low so we stopped armidex and DIM and then all the fun started in about 4-5 days all high e2 came back. 3 weeks later blood test should e2 at 73.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    No arimidex? That's stuff's expensive though.
    If you get it threw the chemoneresearch guys its practically free at 50-60 bucks for a year supply.
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    Oh man that's cheap! I know those guys let me check it out. Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    If you get it threw the chemoneresearch guys its practically free at 50-60 bucks for a year supply.
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    Is it liquid? I have a hard time believing they can sell what normally goes for $9 a tablet so cheap. But they are bulk before middle man so guess that's why. I'm ordering mine now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    Update:

    Well the thyroid doesn't seem to be doing anything, I've actually gotten worse and felt way more tired while on just .5 grains. I stopped it and I felt better since then and temp was 98.2 the other day.

    Tried cortef while on it one day (5mg) but didnt do much for fatigue. Luckily everything is so cheap I don't mind trying stuff.

    Pregnenlone cream after first day doesn't seem to help much either.

    Next step I'm going to ask my Dr. to let me try arimidex .5mg ED. I think until I get my E2 down (currently 46) nothing is going to make much difference. Doesn't seem to anyway. If that doesn't work I'm going on T.
    There is a lot of great advice and opinions here, but let me add my $.02 because my symptoms and my situation was somewhat similar to yours.

    I wanted to correct my situation as quickly as I could but with as little medication as I could. I tried supplements to bring down my E2 (chrysin, dim, chrysin & dim, etc.). They did nothing for me. Use Arimidex. It works. Skip all the other stuff and see if lowering the E2 helps. 3.5mg per week (.5mg ED) seems high. Most people start off at .5mg twice a week for a total of 1mg a week. That's what I take.

    I also take 1gr of Armour thyroid per day. I felt a noticeable improvement in a week and it has gotten even better since then.

    Now that I feel halfway normal, I can try adding one more thing at a time and accurately assess the improvement or lack there of, for the last thing I tried. If you start trying to correct your situation by throwing a couple of scripted meds and a handful of supplements, you can't tell what works and what doesn't.

    Regarding feeling better of thyroid med, you should have felt it by now. Either that or the dose is too low.

    My numbers and symptoms were strikingly similar to yours. I can't tell you which helped me the most, Adex or thyroid med, but it worked and I feel like living again. I don't care how much it cost, it is worth it IMO.
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    Thanks, I appreciate your input very much. I just came to the same conclusion you said about trying DIM and all the other stuff for E2. Arimidex is the only way to go I think. I just ordered some actually. I still take natures way dim because it's supposed to help promote good estrogens. I just search all Dr. Johns posts and go by what he uses. My hope is with a TT of 765 by bringing my E2 my free T should double. At least the research papers I read show a direct correlation with E2 and Free T at the same ratio. That's where I got the .5ed from but your right it's too high. I think the thyroid isnt the answer for me since off it my temps sometimes were at 98.2 anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Undone View Post
    There is a lot of great advice and opinions here, but let me add my $.02 because my symptoms and my situation was somewhat similar to yours.

    I wanted to correct my situation as quickly as I could but with as little medication as I could. I tried supplements to bring down my E2 (chrysin, dim, chrysin & dim, etc.). They did nothing for me. Use Arimidex. It works. Skip all the other stuff and see if lowering the E2 helps. 3.5mg per week (.5mg ED) seems high. Most people start off at .5mg twice a week for a total of 1mg a week. That's what I take.

    I also take 1gr of Armour thyroid per day. I felt a noticeable improvement in a week and it has gotten even better since then.

    Now that I feel halfway normal, I can try adding one more thing at a time and accurately assess the improvement or lack there of, for the last thing I tried. If you start trying to correct your situation by throwing a couple of scripted meds and a handful of supplements, you can't tell what works and what doesn't.

    Regarding feeling better of thyroid med, you should have felt it by now. Either that or the dose is too low.

    My numbers and symptoms were strikingly similar to yours. I can't tell you which helped me the most, Adex or thyroid med, but it worked and I feel like living again. I don't care how much it cost, it is worth it IMO.
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    I am sorry you stoped you need to go up on the dose of armour about every 2 weeks. What your feeling is hypo again and it's this feeling and taking your temps that tells you to up the dose. Sure your Dr. will put you on it and tell you to come back in 4 to 8 weeks but this is to long to be on a low does it just makes you feel hypo again. I read some where that it take 3 grains of armour to = what your thyroid puts out. Go to STTM and read the site.
    http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    Update:

    Well the thyroid doesn't seem to be doing anything, I've actually gotten worse and felt way more tired while on just .5 grains. I stopped it and I felt better since then and temp was 98.2 the other day.

    Tried cortef while on it one day (5mg) but didnt do much for fatigue. Luckily everything is so cheap I don't mind trying stuff.

    Pregnenlone cream after first day doesn't seem to help much either.

    Next step I'm going to ask my Dr. to let me try arimidex .5mg ED. I think until I get my E2 down (currently 46) nothing is going to make much difference. Doesn't seem to anyway. If that doesn't work I'm going on T.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    Thanks, I appreciate your input very much. I just came to the same conclusion you said about trying DIM and all the other stuff for E2. Arimidex is the only way to go I think. I just ordered some actually. I still take natures way dim because it's supposed to help promote good estrogens. I just search all Dr. Johns posts and go by what he uses. My hope is with a TT of 765 by bringing my E2 my free T should double. At least the research papers I read show a direct correlation with E2 and Free T at the same ratio. That's where I got the .5ed from but your right it's too high. I think the thyroid isnt the answer for me since off it my temps sometimes were at 98.2 anyways.
    On 1mg of Adex per week, my E2 went from 36 to 24 in 6 weeks. My TT increased by 16% and FT increased by 25%.

    Other have stated that lowering your E2 by too much can produce the same symptoms as too high E2.

    FWIW, I would start with .25mg - .5mg Arimidex EOD and have your levels checked in 4 - 5 weeks. My guess is that you will start feeling better in 7 - 10 days.

    Keep us posted. Good luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    Thanks, I appreciate your input very much. I just came to the same conclusion you said about trying DIM and all the other stuff for E2. Arimidex is the only way to go I think. I just ordered some actually. I still take natures way dim because it's supposed to help promote good estrogens. I just search all Dr. Johns posts and go by what he uses. My hope is with a TT of 765 by bringing my E2 my free T should double. At least the research papers I read show a direct correlation with E2 and Free T at the same ratio. That's where I got the .5ed from but your right it's too high. I think the thyroid isnt the answer for me since off it my temps sometimes were at 98.2 anyways.
    Please post links to those relevant Dr John posts.
    So far I was able to locate only one:

    Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding - View Single Post - I am on HRT with DIM...

    Dr John is not supporting flax seed anymore.
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    Well I've only looked on this board. Gives me ideas on products he likes so I research them and try them. I read through this thread. I like nature's way.

    Thank you Dr. John!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Please post links to those relevant Dr John posts.
    So far I was able to locate only one:

    Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding - View Single Post - I am on HRT with DIM...

    Dr John is not supporting flax seed anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    Thanks, I appreciate your input very much. I just came to the same conclusion you said about trying DIM and all the other stuff for E2. Arimidex is the only way to go I think. I just ordered some actually. I still take natures way dim because it's supposed to help promote good estrogens. I just search all Dr. Johns posts and go by what he uses. My hope is with a TT of 765 by bringing my E2 my free T should double. At least the research papers I read show a direct correlation with E2 and Free T at the same ratio. That's where I got the .5ed from but your right it's too high. I think the thyroid isnt the answer for me since off it my temps sometimes were at 98.2 anyways.
    Our BW is similar, except for FT.

    TT - 731
    FT - 23.9
    E2 - 43
    DHEA - 520

    I have come to a similar conclusion as you, I think I will be jumping on the arimidex bandwagon. Im getting new BW soon in august, we shall see how I test out again.
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    What's your SHBG?

    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Our BW is similar, except for FT.

    TT - 731
    FT - 23.9
    E2 - 43
    DHEA - 520

    I have come to a similar conclusion as you, I think I will be jumping on the arimidex bandwagon. Im getting new BW soon in august, we shall see how I test out again.
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