Well I'm not quite sure how to start out, so I will just lay down some basics and then ask my questions.

Age: 26
Height: 5-10
Weight: 290

Issues:
Obviously weight is a major concern. I tried the fad diets with little to no success and have been very frustrated with the inability to make something work. Let me tell you where I'm at and where I’ve been over the last few years

Currently I have been maintaining around an 1800 -2200 calorie diet for about 5-6 weeks very faithfully. I don't drink alcohol or smoke and don't drink Cokes regularly either. I'm an ice tea or water guy. I am doing cardio about 3 times a week for about 30 min in the mornings. I know I should be doing more but my job right now is eating up my time for any gym workouts in the evenings.
Total weight loss is around 4lbs.

About a year and a half ago I teamed up with two coworkers at the gym for some accountability and to have a workout partner. This is the hardest I have ever worked out in my life.
At the time I was maintaining around a 2500 calorie diet. It did not take me long to realize that both of my buds were actually in pre-marriage training. The workout routine included 25 min of hard cardio on an elliptical each day and then about 1.5 hrs of heavy weight lifting. This went on for over 8 months and while I did see some progress it was far short of what I expected. At the end of this period I lost a whopping total of 20lbs. (285-265) I did not drop any sizes in clothes and could not tell much if anything in the mirror. I did increase moderately in my weightlifting abilities, although I did not get back to my max in HS power lifting. The frustrating part of it was the two coworkers not only trimmed up but really started getting cut and their diets were not nearly as restricted as mine. Needless to say, they got married and both have moved on to other jobs and therefore I do not have anyone to workout with. I tried to keep going regularly for a while but the job keeps too late these days.

Before that I had tried Atkins and did ok but just could not maintain the very low carbs to lose weight. I have counted points, carbs, fats, moved cards around, charted and tracked meals etc. All were disappointing.

I did try going to a DO for possible thyroid issues but he refused to run any blood work. Sure he asked a bunch of questions and then would take my pulse and temp, adjust the dosage of Armour, then send me on my way. This helped slightly with some other issues I will discuss later but the weight loss was not one of them. (Also is it possible to get a batch of bad Armour? I had a three month supply that did not feel like it was doing anything. There was a significant difference when he upped my dose to 1.5 grain. It was like i was taking nothing. I tried to tell my doc that something wasn't right and he wouldn't even listen to me.)

Fatigue-Tired - Sluggish - Sleep Problems

I am always tired and sluggish it seems. I try to get good sleep but I just can't. I wake up all during the night. I would say about every hour to hour and a half or so. Sometimes I wake up in the mornings an hour before my alarm goes off and can't go back to sleep. (I can sometimes about 4-5 hrs later) This is something the thyroid supp. helped but only moderately. It basically felt like the sleep I did get was more beneficial to me, but I still had the afternoon crash where I got really tired.

Working out is tough on me just for the fatigue. I literally want to take a nap after a workout. (Is that normal?? Maybe it is.) I know that my weight plays a factor into the fatigue side of things but I just don't know.

Mental Clarity - Attention Span - Concentration

Lately (2-3 yrs), it seems as though the old noggin has slowed down quite a bit. In high school and college i was reading a large novel in about 1-2 weeks. Now it takes about a month. I think my reading speed has slowed down but I just don't have the focus to read for any length of time. I find it harder to concentrate at work and constantly find myself having to stop and regroup my thoughts. I used to pride myself in college of just listening to the lectures and not taking notes, because I didn't have to. I could remember that stuff pretty well. Now in taking some extra college level courses for work, I am really struggling.

Random Things - I have no idea if these mean anything or not.

Morning body temp - typically in the low 96* range. If i get to 98.6 I have a full blown fever.

Dry skin and eyes.

Some constipation on a regular basis. The DO I mentioned did introduce me to Chelated Magnesium which seemed to help. I might take this once every week to ten days if I start to notice that its been more than 24 hrs since the last visit to the "throne".

Occasional bouts with depression and foul mood. I am one of the most upbeat guys around but its getting tougher. I don't know if it is just stress or what, but I don't like being negative or in a bad mood.

Family history of Diabetes. Both Granddads had it.

Ok that’s enough of that.

1. Am I just going to have to resign myself to eating half as much as the next guy on a diet and working out twice as long.
I just don't know if I can do it if that’s the case.

2. Does any of this sound like it could be helped with proper diagnosis and treatment for thyroid, HGH, test, estrogen or anything else. I know that it will take a full blood work up to see what if anything is going on but I can't afford to waist money on another doctor like the last one. I don't have any insurance but a high ded plan through work so I sure can't afford to try two or three docs to try and find a good one.

3. Is there a way to go get blood work done without having to see a doctor? Clinics, blood banks anything????

4. Tell me if I am just off my freaking rocker. Tell me if I just need to quit writing long pointless posts and get my @$$ on the treadmill.


I don't want to be a ripped body builder or anything but I would like to be a more normal size for my age, height etc.

Again I am 26 yr old and I do not want to be making the sequel to the 40 yr old virgin (if you get my drift).


This board has been a great read over the last couple of weeks and I have already learned a few things. If anyone has made it to the end of this post I would greatly appreciate some comments, suggestions etc.

Thanks again.

Bassmaster

A great way to get blood tests sans the doc. is to visit www.healthtestsdirect.com. I've used them before for a CMP. My results came back the next day. All around a good buy.

um....$178 for Free T3 test is highway robbery.

I pay $25 at www.healthcheckusa.com

if your currently on ARmour, you need to test Adrenals through salvia Cortisol Tests from ZRT. you can sign up with canary club and get the full thyroid/ adrenal test for 200$

on the diet, you should cut out all liquid drinks, only water; if your drinking a lot of juice, soda, tea, these can add pounds very easily.
A friend of mine lost 50lbs simply by converting all his liquids into water, you could also try elminating all soy, grains, dairy.

Originally Posted by bassmaster

Well I'm not quite sure how to start out, so I will just lay down some basics and then ask my questions.

Age: 26
Height: 5-10
Weight: 290

Issues:
Obviously weight is a major concern. I tried the fad diets with little to no success and have been very frustrated with the inability to make something work. Let me tell you where I'm at and where I’ve been over the last few years

Currently I have been maintaining around an 1800 -2200 calorie diet for about 5-6 weeks very faithfully. I don't drink alcohol or smoke and don't drink Cokes regularly either. I'm an ice tea or water guy. I am doing cardio about 3 times a week for about 30 min in the mornings. I know I should be doing more but my job right now is eating up my time for any gym workouts in the evenings.
Total weight loss is around 4lbs.

About a year and a half ago I teamed up with two coworkers at the gym for some accountability and to have a workout partner. This is the hardest I have ever worked out in my life.
At the time I was maintaining around a 2500 calorie diet. It did not take me long to realize that both of my buds were actually in pre-marriage training. The workout routine included 25 min of hard cardio on an elliptical each day and then about 1.5 hrs of heavy weight lifting. This went on for over 8 months and while I did see some progress it was far short of what I expected. At the end of this period I lost a whopping total of 20lbs. (285-265) I did not drop any sizes in clothes and could not tell much if anything in the mirror. I did increase moderately in my weightlifting abilities, although I did not get back to my max in HS power lifting. The frustrating part of it was the two coworkers not only trimmed up but really started getting cut and their diets were not nearly as restricted as mine. Needless to say, they got married and both have moved on to other jobs and therefore I do not have anyone to workout with. I tried to keep going regularly for a while but the job keeps too late these days.

Before that I had tried Atkins and did ok but just could not maintain the very low carbs to lose weight. I have counted points, carbs, fats, moved cards around, charted and tracked meals etc. All were disappointing.

I did try going to a DO for possible thyroid issues but he refused to run any blood work. Sure he asked a bunch of questions and then would take my pulse and temp, adjust the dosage of Armour, then send me on my way. This helped slightly with some other issues I will discuss later but the weight loss was not one of them. (Also is it possible to get a batch of bad Armour? I had a three month supply that did not feel like it was doing anything. There was a significant difference when he upped my dose to 1.5 grain. It was like i was taking nothing. I tried to tell my doc that something wasn't right and he wouldn't even listen to me.)

Fatigue-Tired - Sluggish - Sleep Problems

I am always tired and sluggish it seems. I try to get good sleep but I just can't. I wake up all during the night. I would say about every hour to hour and a half or so. Sometimes I wake up in the mornings an hour before my alarm goes off and can't go back to sleep. (I can sometimes about 4-5 hrs later) This is something the thyroid supp. helped but only moderately. It basically felt like the sleep I did get was more beneficial to me, but I still had the afternoon crash where I got really tired.

Working out is tough on me just for the fatigue. I literally want to take a nap after a workout. (Is that normal?? Maybe it is.) I know that my weight plays a factor into the fatigue side of things but I just don't know.

Mental Clarity - Attention Span - Concentration

Lately (2-3 yrs), it seems as though the old noggin has slowed down quite a bit. In high school and college i was reading a large novel in about 1-2 weeks. Now it takes about a month. I think my reading speed has slowed down but I just don't have the focus to read for any length of time. I find it harder to concentrate at work and constantly find myself having to stop and regroup my thoughts. I used to pride myself in college of just listening to the lectures and not taking notes, because I didn't have to. I could remember that stuff pretty well. Now in taking some extra college level courses for work, I am really struggling.

Random Things - I have no idea if these mean anything or not.

Morning body temp - typically in the low 96* range. If i get to 98.6 I have a full blown fever.

Dry skin and eyes.

Some constipation on a regular basis. The DO I mentioned did introduce me to Chelated Magnesium which seemed to help. I might take this once every week to ten days if I start to notice that its been more than 24 hrs since the last visit to the "throne".

Occasional bouts with depression and foul mood. I am one of the most upbeat guys around but its getting tougher. I don't know if it is just stress or what, but I don't like being negative or in a bad mood.

Family history of Diabetes. Both Granddads had it.

Ok that’s enough of that.

1. Am I just going to have to resign myself to eating half as much as the next guy on a diet and working out twice as long.
I just don't know if I can do it if that’s the case.

2. Does any of this sound like it could be helped with proper diagnosis and treatment for thyroid, HGH, test, estrogen or anything else. I know that it will take a full blood work up to see what if anything is going on but I can't afford to waist money on another doctor like the last one. I don't have any insurance but a high ded plan through work so I sure can't afford to try two or three docs to try and find a good one.

3. Is there a way to go get blood work done without having to see a doctor? Clinics, blood banks anything????

4. Tell me if I am just off my freaking rocker. Tell me if I just need to quit writing long pointless posts and get my @$$ on the treadmill.


I don't want to be a ripped body builder or anything but I would like to be a more normal size for my age, height etc.

Again I am 26 yr old and I do not want to be making the sequel to the 40 yr old virgin (if you get my drift).


This board has been a great read over the last couple of weeks and I have already learned a few things. If anyone has made it to the end of this post I would greatly appreciate some comments, suggestions etc.

Thanks again.

Bassmaster

To me it looks like you have cover the whole list that we talking about here.
Adrenal fatigue
Thyroid
insuline/glucose
gonads.
It is going to be tough witout good insurance.
For starters work less physically and mentally.
When working out do it for less than half an hour at the time, conserve adrenals.
You are killing your weak adrenals.
Adjust you work according to your recovery time of about 20 hrs.
If you still did not recover next day, you worked too much.
Eat half of what you eating or less.
If you have problem with that, fast just drink water.
Fast as best as you can, eat every other day or every third day. For me it is easier to not eat at all than eating small portion while watching full fridge,

If you have to pay for blood test from your own pocket, there is a good deal going now at LEF (for short time).
Get membership, buy script for all kind of blood tests.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/833056-post22.html

Eventually you still need a doctor.
If you can go and see Dr John, owner of this board.
Or look for a doctors that mainly deal with Thyroid but also with hormones.
Get a list of ten names and start interviewing, their nurses at first. Use this links to make that list.
Thyroid Disease Information Source -- Bestselling Books, News, Information on Living Well With Hypothyroidism, Autoimmune Disease, Thyroid Diet, Home Page of Mary Shomon
FIND A TOP DOCTOR: The Thyroid Top Doctors Directory features patient-recommended practitioners around the world.

Also Osteopaths are usualy helpful:
American Osteopathic Association

Since you are taking Armour
#1. it speaks nicely about your current doctor.
#2. test FreeT3 and use as much Armour as it takes to put you in about 20% top range (quite close to the top).

You have to support adrenals if they need support.

Talk to Phil here about adrenals/thyroid issues.
============================== ==================
Since you are already with DO, osteopath, you have a good chance to steer him into what you need.
Basically you first need good blood test, there is no way out.
I post my list often, if you can not find it I will post again. You can see my blood test here, post #1.
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

Stay here, learn, you will get help.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by spinn

um....$178 for Free T3 test is highway robbery.

I pay $25 at www.healthcheckusa.com

Their prices seem to be almost as good as LEF's member prices. They might be easier to deal w/ than LEF, whose process for ordering tests and reporting results is extremely awkward.

Originally Posted by cpeil2

Their prices seem to be almost as good as LEF's member prices. They might be easier to deal w/ than LEF, whose process for ordering tests and reporting results is extremely awkward.

As long as I have a good credit card # never had a problem with ordering anything from LEF for the last 4 years.

I do have a problem getting in contact with their advisors.

Originally Posted by spinn

um....$178 for Free T3 test is highway robbery.

I pay $25 at www.healthcheckusa.com

Healthtestsdirect is cheaper than healthcheckusa on some tests. For instance, their blood type and RH test is only $20, whereas the site you mentioned has it fro $45. Plus, they offer exponentially more tests than healthcheckusa.

Originally Posted by JanSz

As long as I have a good credit card # never had a problem with ordering anything from LEF for the last 4 years.

I do have a problem getting in contact with their advisors.

Sure, they're great at getting your credit card number.

When you order tests, they send you the requisition via UPS letter, which usually takes at least three or four days

After you get the blood drawn, results can take anywhere from 3 days to a month, depending on what the tests are and how badly they have bungled your order. Results are sent by mail.

When I had the tests done for my initial appointment w/ Dr. Crisler, knowing how badly they can bungle things, I had the blood drawn a full month before my appointment.

As of the day before I was to fly from CA to MI for my appointment, I did not have the results yet. I contacted them and they said that they had been sent out two weeks before. They said they would overnight them to Dr. C's office. The day of my flight, the results arrived in the mail, which was a good thing, because they never did pull it together to overnight the results to the doc.


This type of experience is typical for LEF, but only in relation to blood testing. I have never had any difficulty ordering product from LEF.


I ordered my last round of tests from Direct Laboratory Services. The cost was about the same as LEF's non-memb er prices. I received the requisition form by email the same morning I place the order. I received the results by email two days after the blood was drawn. For service like that, I am willing to pay a little extra.

Originally Posted by cpeil2

Sure, they're great at getting your credit card number.

When you order tests, they send you the requisition via UPS letter, which usually takes at least three or four days

After you get the blood drawn, results can take anywhere from 3 days to a month, depending on what the tests are and how badly they have bungled your order. Results are sent by mail.

When I had the tests done for my initial appointment w/ Dr. Crisler, knowing how badly they can bungle things, I had the blood drawn a full month before my appointment.

As of the day before I was to fly from CA to MI for my appointment, I did not have the results yet. I contacted them and they said that they had been sent out two weeks before. They said they would overnight them to Dr. C's office. The day of my flight, the results arrived in the mail, which was a good thing, because they never did pull it together to overnight the results to the doc.


This type of experience is typical for LEF, but only in relation to blood testing. I have never had any difficulty ordering product from LEF.


I ordered my last round of tests from Direct Laboratory Services. The cost was about the same as LEF's non-memb er prices. I received the requisition form by email the same morning I place the order. I received the results by email two days after the blood was drawn. For service like that, I am willing to pay a little extra.

I must say that my last test at Quest took over three weeks to get to me. It was comming in pieces and and was newer put together as coherent report.
I had to retype the whole thing to be able to read it and post on this board.

OTOH, the phlebotomist warned me before hand that mine test is one of the most detailed she dealt with, and will take long time to complete.

With that said, my previous experience with LabCorp was slightly better.

Still, I am going to stick with Quest as long as I can because of their correct Testosterone test.

I guess people who have to use LEF scripts should consider them selves lucky after all, they go there because that is their last resort.

Sorry it's taken me a few days to get back to ya'll.

First off I would like to say thank you to all of you for the advice and comments on the different BW test sites. I was able to sit down and compare what site would offer the best deal and ended up going with LEF. It ended up being a couple hundred cheaper than the others. As soon as I know something on the BW, I am sure that I will be back for more questions and comments.

I would like to clear up a couple of things that I did not make very clear in my original post. I currently am not taking any Armour and have not for about 6-8 months. I quit seeing my doc about 6 months before that. I really was not happy with him in that he only wanted to look at thyroid support and he refused to do any tests. On a follow up visit this guy would just walk in, take my temp, take my heartrate and write a prescription. There are a couple more D.O. in my area that I am looking into right now based on the links provided in this thread.


engival

"on the diet, you should cut out all liquid drinks, only water; if your drinking a lot of juice, soda, tea, these can add pounds very easily.
A friend of mine lost 50lbs simply by converting all his liquids into water, you could also try elminating all soy, grains, dairy."


This is something that I have already tried. About three years ago, I was drinking way to much Coke. I was up to about 2 liters of Coke a day. (yes I am ashamed and embarassed) I went cold turkey off of all carbonated drinks and switched to water and tea only. I did not drink sweet, just plain ice tea. In a year and half, I had 2 cokes. I was proud of myself for kicking the the coke habit but frustrated that I did not lose any weight. I tried comparing my diet before and after I quit cokes and could not find any really different at all. If anything my poor diet improved slightly. The only thing I don't know about is Tea. Is it bad for you? I went from over 1200 cal in Coke to 0 in tea and water. I could not tell any difference. Now I might have a coke once a week or so but thats all.



JanSz

Thanks for all the great info and the links. I have already been researching possible docs in my area.

One thing I do want to ask you on is the recomendation for fasting. You stated to eat EOD or every third day. Is this really a long term solution? I am really trying to get away from a mentality of going on a diet and would rather focus my efforts on something that has long term sustainability. If I don't eat for a day I get shaky and light headed. I can't live like that. I was just curious about your recomdation in this area.

Again guys, THANKS

I have much to learn and will continue to ask questions hear.

Originally Posted by bassmaster

Sorry it's taken me a few days to get back to ya'll.

First off I would like to say thank you to all of you for the advice and comments on the different BW test sites. I was able to sit down and compare what site would offer the best deal and ended up going with LEF. It ended up being a couple hundred cheaper than the others. As soon as I know something on the BW, I am sure that I will be back for more questions and comments.

I would like to clear up a couple of things that I did not make very clear in my original post. I currently am not taking any Armour and have not for about 6-8 months. I quit seeing my doc about 6 months before that. I really was not happy with him in that he only wanted to look at thyroid support and he refused to do any tests. On a follow up visit this guy would just walk in, take my temp, take my heartrate and write a prescription. There are a couple more D.O. in my area that I am looking into right now based on the links provided in this thread.


engival

"on the diet, you should cut out all liquid drinks, only water; if your drinking a lot of juice, soda, tea, these can add pounds very easily.
A friend of mine lost 50lbs simply by converting all his liquids into water, you could also try elminating all soy, grains, dairy."


This is something that I have already tried. About three years ago, I was drinking way to much Coke. I was up to about 2 liters of Coke a day. (yes I am ashamed and embarassed) I went cold turkey off of all carbonated drinks and switched to water and tea only. I did not drink sweet, just plain ice tea. In a year and half, I had 2 cokes. I was proud of myself for kicking the the coke habit but frustrated that I did not lose any weight. I tried comparing my diet before and after I quit cokes and could not find any really different at all. If anything my poor diet improved slightly. The only thing I don't know about is Tea. Is it bad for you? I went from over 1200 cal in Coke to 0 in tea and water. I could not tell any difference. Now I might have a coke once a week or so but thats all.



JanSz

Thanks for all the great info and the links. I have already been researching possible docs in my area.

One thing I do want to ask you on is the recomendation for fasting. You stated to eat EOD or every third day. Is this really a long term solution? I am really trying to get away from a mentality of going on a diet and would rather focus my efforts on something that has long term sustainability. If I don't eat for a day I get shaky and light headed. I can't live like that. I was just curious about your recomdation in this area.

Again guys, THANKS

I have much to learn and will continue to ask questions hear.

Life styles...

Get old fashion religious.

Do not eat (or very little) Mondays and Fridays.
My parents were hard working farmers in Poland, they could have done it and the rest of the vilage, just put you mind to it. From those times I do not remember any coffe or caffeinated drinks. One cup of tea on Sunday. Water from local well tasted good.
Almost forgot, about Sundays, you would newer eat before comunion, and we would get home from church about 2PM. No ready food, have to wait untill dat kill the chicken, mom cleaned it up put to pot, got the flour make pasta etc, lunch/dinner about 5PM.
There was one fat (sick) child in the whole area.
Well, priest was fat.


Myself, I thing muslems have some appeal,
no more than six wifes and you tell the when sex is going to happen.

Just look at the positive, skip negative.
Wonder if they take a burkas of for sex?
That can be ether + or -.

Do not use car or bicycle, walk.