really, there is no desensitizing of the testes when HCG is used EOD for long durations? Ive always heard excessive use will cause natural testicular function to decline and even cease.
We have research, published two years ago, that showed that 250iu SQ EOD restored baseline testicular activity in young normal men who where HPTA repressed with 200mg/wk of test esters. So that is a normal physiological stimulus to the testes which mimics what they should be doing.
What that research did show was that the 250iu SQ twice a week doses were really close to ideal. With the new research, 250iu SQ EOD is not in any way 'more than needed'.
TRT: A Recipe for Success
His words: "Personally, I recommend never giving more than 500IU of HCG at a time."
I understand that anything over 500IU every day is excessive.
There is a study with link in some of the posts that say that 100IU every day induces testicle to the max, any dose above it is wasted.
Often used dose 250IU/every other day is a compromise because
people do not want to poke to often
supposedly there is some additional benefit in introducing higher dose less often
I use 250IU/eod (I use Tcream)
I can feel diference in testicles fullness on the off days.
I cannot feel any thing else doing HCG shots.
People using T shots e3d use HCG 250IU on days that are between T shots.
would that be day1 and day2 or just day before the shot like on an every 3 day rotation same as shots. with going 250 ius days in between cause you to actually decreae your T dosages by a good amount ? Would an EOD schedule with a person on shot be suitable thing to do. I thougth the concept was to keep a constant serum level and not have peaks and valleys and would hcg given on your day of your shot some how alter this?
Right now i am doing 250 ius HCG day before the shot every 3rd day but balls are still not regaining size so to speak and feel shut down.
So that comes out to be 500 ius a week adding in another day you almost bring it to 1000 a week. Can some one calculate how many ius 250 on days between every 3 rd shout would come out to be weekly? If this will help to reduce my amount taken I would not mind injecting my self and make my balls grow I would love that HEHE
Weekly dose =250*7*(2/3)=1167IU
I asked you on another post how do you fill up yout 29ga syrige using another large syringe.
What do you do with the large one? How big it is. What do you do with remaining T? Are you storing the whole vial of testosterone in large syringe. I need details.
Is the mess really worth the 29ga convenience.
How hard is it to shut 27ga into belly fat?
2 -- HCG
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30 -- HCG
pull plunger on the 29 gauge to 25 ius
then put rest back in bottle
put plunger back on the 29 gauge
Flip it around let it run back around and push plunger all the way. i use my quad or shoudler or calve, biceps, trceps, rotate sites..
With 1000 ius a desensitize ones nuts ?
HCG has a reasonably long half life of 36 hours which makes the EOD not as hilly as one would expect. And with the T level floor, drops in T will be minimal. I tried injecting T and HCG every days for a month when I switched from weekly T and HCG twice a week. I did that to know what a steady state of things would feel like. I then switched to EOD and things felt the same to me. With the two injections, eliminating 365 injections per year has some merit.
HCG has a longer 1/2 life than LH.
EOD was also used in the research that supports 250iu EOD.
I inject T IM with a .5ml #29 .5" insulin syringe. I fill that directly from the vial and inject... dead simple. I take a #23 syringe and poke a hole in the center of a new vial's stopper, and re-poke several times while rotating the cutting edge of the needle. I do this for the HCG and test cyp vials. Then I am very careful to stick the #29 syringes into the very center. I do not have a problem with needle dulling.
Edit: #29 below changed from typo of #26.
When drawing up T with the #29 .5", the flow is slow and the B alcohol preservative will boil then re-incorporate. As many diabetics have done for years, I fill a syringe and use the syringe for multiple injections. Do not do this if you have a weak immune system or are taking immune suppressing drugs for RA etc. I clean the needle after the injection then recap. I used to clean after and before, but cleaning before the injection can sting. No issues for me with needle dulling between first and last injections.
I draw up .56 ml of test cyp into the .5ml syringes and inject 4 times. I dilute my 10,000iu vials of HCG to 5ml instead of 10ml and load .5ml of that 2000iu/ml for 4 250iu injections. The syringe gets returned to refrigeration until empty.
Drawing up the .56ml of test cyp takes a while, but I only have to do that every 8 days (yielding 98mg/wk). Do not use a syringe larger than .5ml, as the larger piston size will reduce the pressures developed when injecting and it will be slower.
.5" is deep enough for IM for small doses if you have thin skin at the injection site.
My only challenge now is to avoid blood vessels in my quads. I do not have good visible surface veins, so I sometimes hit one and get the blue-dot bruising when that happens. Getting a tan makes seeing the veins even harder.
I inject my T and HCG on the same days as a matter of convenience.
1. 250 ius EOD based upon research
2. 250 ius 2 days prior injection using every 3rd day administration
So then is EOD ok to do with injections or would you get same benefit as doing it days in between shoots
How will doing EOD affect test levels if you inject on day of you do your shot aren;t you going to be spiking all over the place with test/ estrogen levels and not being consistant?
I don't see that injecting HCG EOD in-between T injections is worth having to do injections every day. You could try it, but I doubt that you would notice anything.
Inject T with 29ga
Draw T with 26ga
poke holes with 23ga
what you use for HCG
the 29ga and 26ga must be with detachable needles, right?
Would you mind helping me.
What is the reason for poking? Needle dulling, I use 30gs needle for HCG, it goes right thru, it is not dull afterward, I inject with it, feels ok.
OK, the #26 typo'd and should have read #29, I will edit the post and then this post will seem odd
I use a #23 only to condition the rubber stoppers and to transfer water into the HCG. Yes it has a removable needle. I bought 100 when I was doing deep injections in the gluts.
I use #29, .5ml .5" insulin needles for both T and HCG injections.
You will see posts about drawing up the T in a larger bore needle to transfer into a slin pin with the plunger removed... no need.
Some get very concerned with needle dulling and will draw up with a large bore needle, then replace the needle with a new smaller gauge needle for the injection. That is the only reason why I raised that issue. I have not had problems with that either.
Last edited by KSman; 05-20-2007 at 10:15 PM. Reason: Added response to dulling.
If the 1ml syringe has twice the piston surface area, then for the same force, there will be 1/2 the pressure, which will simply increase injection time. My second box of 100 ReliOn syringes have a design change with a shorter syringe and bigger area bore and I do notice a difference with that even thought they are both .5ml.
ReliOn® syringes are available only at Wal-Mart and Sam's Club pharmacies.
I have located BD Microfine IV U-100 Insulin Syringe 28 Gauge 1/2cc 1/2inch Needle 100/ box
UPC: UPC: 382908465038 $24.99
BD Microfine IV U-100 Insulin Syringe 28 Gauge 1/2cc 1/2inch Needle 100/ box
Possibly it can be a happy medium.
Not sure if they ship to NJ.
Wonder if Walmart is selling this size syringe, I did not find it on ReliOn | Information Center
I am asking my doc and he writes a script with out much to do.
If I decide to switch to T injections I need to know (details) what to ask for.
Please tell me what to write on a script to get T at pharmacy.
Also if you could, please retype the info on your T label.
I am assuming that the one described in Dr John's web site is the one to use, but could use info from your label.
TESTOSTERONE CYPIONATE IM (Watson)
testosterone cypionate injection, USP
1 mL vials NDC 0009-0417-01
10 mL vials NDC 0009-0417-02
Vials should be stored at controlled room temperature 20° to 25°C (68° to 77°F)
How much it cost, where to buy? (Wallmart, Wallgreen??)
The current REliOn syringe is made by tyco/monoject aka Kendall healthcare. Don't know who made the prior.
I have checked out on-line syringe costs and they are always more expensive.
These cost $12.60 something at Sam's Club and the web info suggests the same price at Wal-Mart.
I use that Watson's product (10ml). My doc wrote it up as for a Generic, got first vial at Walgreen's and they charged $100 for that. Walgreen's charged me $1.00 per 3ml #22 1.5" syringe. I moved my script to Sam's Club with my Business membership. The same bottle of Watson's cost me $42 at Sam's. That is a business membership only price. There I also got 100 #23 3ml 1.5" syringes for $18, that is $0.18 compared to $1.00 at Walgreen's. I have had no reason to look for better prices elsewhere. And, I also get 10,000 iu of HCG there for $16.25 <-- not a typo. I do not have insurance to cover these costs, so that is very helpful.
I got my last doctor ordered bloodwork done via lef.org and saved a few hundred collars. To do that, you have to order the BW from lef.org. They will not accept your doctors BW order directly. But I think that they would be glad to assist if you needed help in understanding your doctor's order. LEF.org does not in any way work with your insurance, you have to pay for it. And the BW order will be under their staff or contract doctor's name so insurance would choke on that as well.
I will see my doctor soon to review that BW and will see if he objects to my doing that. If he is ok with that, I will pre-purchase a year's worth of blood work from lef.org while the bloodwork is on sale... till the end of May. The annual membership fee at lef.org is well worth it. (I actually signed up for a 5 year membership two years ago.)
Note that the free subscription to LEF magazine that is available at this site does not convey membership buying privileges.