High progesterone, what does it mean?

[pandasys]

My latest labs showed:

Estradiol, High-Sensitivity pg/mL 14
Progesterone ng/mL 2
Prolactin ng/mL 4.1
Estrone, Serum pg/mL 79
Estriol, Serum ng/mL 0.3

My progesterone and estrone are high. I wonder if that's why my blood pressure is higher than normal - water retention? I also don't really understand the magnitude of "high". Given a desired ranged of 0.3-1.2 for progesterone, 2.0 seems very high, but I don't know how to really read it.

Any suggestions on getting those numbers down?

 

[fit4life05]

Whats your DHT at?

 

[pandasys]

Dihydrotestosterone ng/dL 31

 

[fit4life05]

What is the range?

31 seems pretty low though. My DHT is about the same and my progesterone is also high. What is your Total Testosterone at?

My Testosterone gel I just started on should also up my DHT, which I'm thinking will naturally cause my Progesterone to lower. Are you on or going to be on TRT? Injection likely wont raise DHT as much as T gel will, so you could always try some DHT cream.

There is very little info out there on high progesterone in men. It seems to cause low sex drive and shriveled penis though...

 

[pandasys]

With ranges:

Testosterone, Total ng/dL 700 900 453
Testosterone, Free pg/mL 130 190 70.2
Testosterone, %Free 1 2.7 1.55
Dihydrotestosterone ng/dL 25 75 31

So raising DHT may lower progesterone? They compete for the same receptor, or something like that?

Also, I'm not having sexual sides of which I'm aware.

 

[hardasnails1973]

With ranges:

Testosterone, Total ng/dL 700 900 453
Testosterone, Free pg/mL 130 190 70.2
Testosterone, %Free 1 2.7 1.55
Dihydrotestosterone ng/dL 25 75 31

So raising DHT may lower progesterone? They compete for the same receptor, or something like that?

Also, I'm not having sexual sides of which I'm aware.

Guys with BPH have elevated progesterone levels as well, also to it may be indicated that you are needed higher levels of say cortisol so in order to get more cortisol it may be raising your progesterone level since it is the primary building block.
Check adrenals be next suspcion

 

[JanSz]

My latest labs showed:

Estradiol, High-Sensitivity pg/mL 14
Progesterone ng/mL 2
Prolactin ng/mL 4.1
Estrone, Serum pg/mL 79
Estriol, Serum ng/mL 0.3

My progesterone and estrone are high. I wonder if that's why my blood pressure is higher than normal - water retention? I also don't really understand the magnitude of "high". Given a desired ranged of 0.3-1.2 for progesterone, 2.0 seems very high, but I don't know how to really read it.

Any suggestions on getting those numbers down?

I had my TotalEststrogens=260 and Estrone=78 (oct06)
lowered to 60 and 33 respectively (april13/07).
I think it is because of my increased doses of 6pills of (Dual-Action)+2pills of TMG.
Tmg (Trimethylglycine), 500 Mg 180 Tablets
Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
My Estradiol (E2) did not changed at all, so no worry that DIM reduces it, it just manages the bads and favors the goods.
============================================
The Life Extension Revolution (Paperback)
by Phillip Lee Miller, M.D. with Monica Reinagel
Item Catalog Number: 33696
The Life Extension Revolution (Paperback), By Phillip Lee Miller, M.D. With Monica Reinagel
Progesterone p95 p242--Optimal Range(1500-2500)pg/mL men

So you are within range with progesterone.

What is your pregnenolone level.

Mine was in low range. I was eating pregnenolone pills, no action.
When I switched to prescription 100mg/1gram, 1gram/day cream I got action.
Among other things my DHEA got above range first time in years.

 

[pandasys]

Guys with BPH have elevated progesterone levels as well, also to it may be indicated that you are needed higher levels of say cortisol so in order to get more cortisol it may be raising your progesterone level since it is the primary building block.
Check adrenals be next suspcion

Prostate was OK at a physical in December. PSA is also very low. Cortisol is in range:

Cortisol, AM mcg/dL 8 18 14.2

 

[pandasys]

I had my TotalEststrogens=260 and Estrone=78 (oct06)
lowered to 60 and 33 respectively (april13/07).
I think it is because of my increased doses of 6pills of (Dual-Action)+2pills of TMG.
Tmg (Trimethylglycine), 500 Mg 180 Tablets
Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
My Estradiol (E2) did not changed at all, so no worry that DIM reduces it, it just manages the bads and favors the goods.
============================================
The Life Extension Revolution (Paperback)
by Phillip Lee Miller, M.D. with Monica Reinagel
Item Catalog Number: 33696
The Life Extension Revolution (Paperback), By Phillip Lee Miller, M.D. With Monica Reinagel
Progesterone p95 p242--Optimal Range(1500-2500)pg/mL men

So you are within range with progesterone.

What is your pregnenolone level.

Mine was in low range. I was eating pregnenolone pills, no action.
When I switched to prescription 100mg/1gram, 1gram/day cream I got action.
Among other things my DHEA got above range first time in years.

OK, so given that range my progesterone is OK; mine being 2000pg/mL. The range I specified came with the test results.

Pregnonolone wasn't part of the the test.

MY DHEA is low with the given range:

DHEA Sulfate mcg/dL 350 500 238

Now 238, last December was 90. I currently take 1 50mg DHEA pill every morning. I'll start taking 2 qd, one morning, one late evening.

Thanks for the help everyone. I think I'm within range on the thing I was most worried about - progresterone.

 

[JanSz]

OK, so given that range my progesterone is OK; mine being 2000pg/mL. The range I specified came with the test results.

Pregnonolone wasn't part of the the test.

MY DHEA is low with the given range:

DHEA Sulfate mcg/dL 350 500 238

Now 238, last December was 90. I currently take 1 50mg DHEA pill every morning. I'll start taking 2 qd, one morning, one late evening.

Thanks for the help everyone. I think I'm within range on the thing I was most worried about - progresterone.

If you are like me you will get nowhere with DHEA by taking DHEA pills.
And pregnenolone by taking pregnenolone pills.
If you are like me, do pregnenolone test first. If you low in pregnenolone and DHEA take just pregnenolone cream.
If you good at pregnenolone and low at DHEA take DHEA cream. I am talking prescription strenght not the s**** stuff over the counter.

 

[hardasnails1973]

If you are like me you will get nowhere with DHEA by taking DHEA pills.
And pregnenolone by taking pregnenolone pills.
If you are like me, do pregnenolone test first. If you low in pregnenolone and DHEA take just pregnenolone cream.
If you good at pregnenolone and low at DHEA take DHEA cream. I am talking prescription strenght not the s**** stuff over the counter.

If pregenenolone is low look to hypothyroidism

 

[pandasys]

If you are like me you will get nowhere with DHEA by taking DHEA pills.
And pregnenolone by taking pregnenolone pills.
If you are like me, do pregnenolone test first. If you low in pregnenolone and DHEA take just pregnenolone cream.
If you good at pregnenolone and low at DHEA take DHEA cream. I am talking prescription strenght not the s**** stuff over the counter.

50mg a day got me half way there, a significant increase. I'll see what 50mg more in the evening does. How long to wait for a retest?

 

[JanSz]

If pregenenolone is low look to hypothyroidism

Since my test in oct06 I got to 4grains of Armour thyroid.

Oct/06---T3 Free 2.9pg/mL (2.3-4.2)(LabCorp)

April13/07---T3 Free 486pg/dL(230-420)(Quest)
I backed out to 3grains
---------------------------------------------

 

[JanSz]

50mg a day got me half way there, a significant increase. I'll see what 50mg more in the evening does. How long to wait for a retest?

You may try, it may work.
I was not able to get anywhere with my DHEA taking DHEA pills.
Other than pregnenolone cream (script reqd)
There are pregnenolone creams over the counter I suspect they are not worth the time, money and frustration.
There is DHEA cream, not sure if need script or not.

 

[plymouth city]

I have found that the pregnenolone assay is worthless.

For quest, labcorp, rhein, etc?

 

[hardasnails1973]

For quest, labcorp, rhein, etc?

Serum in blood. Urine you have to pay extra from rheine to get as well as thyroid levels

 

[1cc]

50mg a day got me half way there, a significant increase. I'll see what 50mg more in the evening does. How long to wait for a retest?

DHEA needs to be taken in the morning with food and something oily or fatty to aid absorption. If your food is not oily or fatty enough, take 1 tablespoon olive oil with the DHEA. Try this before increasing your dosage, because 50mg should be sufficient, otherwise you may have estrogen problems. Also, DHEA Sulfate labs needs to be done between 3-4 hours after taking DHEA in the morning. I take 25mg DHEA in the morning, and it is sufficient for me.

 

[plymouth city]

I have only seen it on bloods. And it is ALWAYS high. I think I ran it maybe 50 times, maybe once or twice was in normal range. Dr. Rothenberg told me he has found the same thing, so does not order it anymore.

Thanks Dr John.

I know your not to fond of Labcorp, especially FreeT.

Are they completely useless? Its a bummer because that is the labs that LEF uses and sells in great discount.

 

[aculpep]

Do bioavailable T at labcorp, they send it out.

Thanks Dr John.

I know your not to fond of Labcorp, especially FreeT.

Are they completely useless? Its a bummer because that is the labs that LEF uses and sells in great discount.

 

[KSman]

If pregnenolone is low look to hypothyroidism

Interesting -as my doctor put me on Armour 30mg today. My pregnenolone was low earlier and did not respond to 100mg/day, so I quit trying and stopped. Today I sked if I needed to take it all as my DHEA was now up and my steroid could be made from that as my body [and HCG] required. He stated that pregnenolone is also used in the brain, not as a substrate but as a needed material.

I was a DHEA non-responder. I got a bulk jar [75 grams] of DHEA power and was taking 1/8 teaspoon and DHEA went up past 600.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Interesting -as my doctor put me on Armour 30mg today. My pregnenolone was low earlier and did not respond to 100mg/day, so I quit trying and stopped. Today I sked if I needed to take it all as my DHEA was now up and my steroid could be made from that as my body [and HCG] required. He stated that pregnenolone is also used in the brain, not as a substrate but as a needed material.

I was a DHEA non-responder. I got a bulk jar [75 grams] of DHEA power and was taking 1/8 teaspoon and DHEA went up past 600.

in what time frame did that occure
and hcg will increaes progesterone and dHEA and may also raise esterone in the process..

 

[fit4life05]

I found a post where Dr MArciano says that Progesterone can be released by stress, and that DHEA can be as well (obviously also Cortisol.

I have high DHEA and Progesterone, I wonder if this has anything to do with stress?

 

[KSman]

in what time frame did that occure
and hcg will increaes progesterone and dHEA and may also raise esterone in the process..

I know where you are trying to go. My DHEA-s was low in 2004 when I was taking 50mg. So I had that issue before TRT. With pre-TRT BW it was low and did 100mg/day and it still stayed low. The first on TRT BW showed pregnenolone down and my testes were shrinking and sore at that time, which makes sense.

 

[hardasnails1973]

I know where you are trying to go. My DHEA-s was low in 2004 when I was taking 50mg. So I had that issue before TRT. With pre-TRT BW it was low and did 100mg/day and it still stayed low. The first on TRT BW showed pregnenolone down and my testes were shrinking and sore at that time, which makes sense.

MY main question is how can e2 be low (well atleast according to the range with result of <2 and rangr <29) and esterone be at the high end that makes no sense unless HCG is elevating progesterone causing it to increase and there is a metabolic shift that is occuring for some unknown reason where DIM, TMG would be appropriate modalities to keep the pathway open. And given the fact that esterone has same receptors in the breast and prostrate could this be causing similar effects of elevated e2 (sore breasts, water rention, interal anxiety, insomnia) even though the e2 is in the optimal range (or at least we think it is). Since e3 is the protector and iodine changes the converstion from e1 to e3 (which I am checking on through testing). So the question is this what can be done to lower the esterone with out affecting the e2 (DIM and TMG,), but not starting untill blood test are back. I did 1000 mgs of DIM the other night and My piss stunk to high hell in the morning so could this be telling me that my body needs to flush out the methyl - metabolites before adding more fuel to the fire so to speak with DIM. According to last test my e2 came back less then <2 of ultrasenstive estrodial essay so i stopped the armidex for a week and felt good then i started to loose morning wood and felt like becoming inuslin resitance muscle feel like not getting glycogen to them and flipping back the other way. I have a hunch its not the e2 causing the problem but stopping the DIm and causing the esterone to build up from the HCG and not getting metabolized properly, but I do not want to lower my e2 any more because I do not know where it really is from the testing results.. My dr is good but bery slow, being an undermetylator in the first place tells me methylated estrogen are building up and only test I found to measure that is the genova labs estroessence test which is used for males with BPH.

Then answer me this how come my tits hurt and i have BPH with normal estodial levels?
Things that can be causing
1.Dhea and hcg elevated esterones system is bottle necking where (ned to futher examine)
2. severe undermetylation (homocysteine of 3.9 tells me that and anything under 5 is a possible indicator) possible elevated 4,16 hydroxy not being properly disposed and were the bottle neck could be occuring (urine test would indicate this)
3. too much DIM causing depeltion of methl groups resulting in lowering of gluthione which is already indicated on lab tests.
4. hidden iodine defieincy due to dietary habits for past 25 plus years (elevated esterone and low estriol would idenitfy this on urine test.)

Drop in methylation went from 7.5 to 4.0 after one month of TRT 2 years ago could there have possible been a shift in no e2 but esterone metabolism which was the underlying cause.

Hypothesis
Severe iodine defeincy caused a metabolic shift casuing esterone to elevated and conversion of e1 to e3 (protective estrogen) to be reduced. e3 is protective for the prostrate and also breast tissues. I have always had senisitive nipples even though e2 has been in constant check it has never been above 20 the whole 3 years making me think that elevated esterone was the culprit the whole time and no dr even freaken checked for it.. Further research indicated that breast and prostrate tissue have receptors for esterone as well which could possible mean that if esterone can bind to e2 receptors why could it also bind to oones in hypothalamus or pituitary or ever else in the body. This could possible cause both an e2 defieincy and estrodial excess at the same time. The un used e2 would put undue stress on the liver. Also esterone is an estrogen how the hell can liver distguish between e1, e2? So is it possible that my elevated shbg could be a result of the un used e2 or esterone causing the liver to produce more shbg. Shbg increases with estrogen correct by it does not know what kind (e1,e2,e3).

 

[KSman]

MY main question is how can e2 be low (well atleast according to the range with result of <2 and rangr <29) and esterone be at the high end that makes no sense unless HCG is elevating progesterone causing it to increase and there is a metabolic shift that is occuring for some unknown reason where DIM, TMG would be appropriate modalities to keep the pathway open. And given the fact that esterone has same receptors in the breast and prostrate could this be causing similar effects of elevated e2 (sore breasts, water rention, interal anxiety, insomnia) even though the e2 is in the optimal range (or at least we think it is). Since e3 is the protector and iodine changes the converstion from e1 to e3 (which I am checking on through testing). So the question is this what can be done to lower the esterone with out affecting the e2 (DIM and TMG,), but not starting untill blood test are back. I did 1000 mgs of DIM the other night and My piss stunk to high hell in the morning so could this be telling me that my body needs to flush out the methyl - metabolites before adding more fuel to the fire so to speak with DIM. According to last test my e2 came back less then <2 of ultrasenstive estrodial essay so i stopped the armidex for a week and felt good then i started to loose morning wood and felt like becoming inuslin resitance muscle feel like not getting glycogen to them and flipping back the other way. I have a hunch its not the e2 causing the problem but stopping the DIm and causing the esterone to build up from the HCG and not getting metabolized properly, but I do not want to lower my e2 any more because I do not know where it really is from the testing results.. My dr is good but bery slow, being an undermetylator in the first place tells me methylated estrogen are building up and only test I found to measure that is the genova labs estroessence test which is used for males with BPH.

Then answer me this how come my tits hurt and i have BPH with normal estodial levels?
Things that can be causing
1.Dhea and hcg elevated esterones system is bottle necking where (ned to futher examine)
2. severe undermetylation (homocysteine of 3.9 tells me that and anything under 5 is a possible indicator) possible elevated 4,16 hydroxy not being properly disposed and were the bottle neck could be occuring (urine test would indicate this)
3. too much DIM causing depeltion of methl groups resulting in lowering of gluthione which is already indicated on lab tests.
4. hidden iodine defieincy due to dietary habits for past 25 plus years (elevated esterone and low estriol would idenitfy this on urine test.)

Drop in methylation went from 7.5 to 4.0 after one month of TRT 2 years ago could there have possible been a shift in no e2 but esterone metabolism which was the underlying cause.

Hypothesis
Severe iodine defeincy caused a metabolic shift casuing esterone to elevated and conversion of e1 to e3 (protective estrogen) to be reduced. e3 is protective for the prostrate and also breast tissues. I have always had senisitive nipples even though e2 has been in constant check it has never been above 20 the whole 3 years making me think that elevated esterone was the culprit the whole time and no dr even freaken checked for it.. Further research indicated that breast and prostrate tissue have receptors for esterone as well which could possible mean that if esterone can bind to e2 receptors why could it also bind to oones in hypothalamus or pituitary or ever else in the body. This could possible cause both an e2 defieincy and estrodial excess at the same time. The un used e2 would put undue stress on the liver. Also esterone is an estrogen how the hell can liver distguish between e1, e2? So is it possible that my elevated shbg could be a result of the un used e2 or esterone causing the liver to produce more shbg. Shbg increases with estrogen correct by it does not know what kind (e1,e2,e3).

WOW.....! most of that does leave me in the dust.

I like the idea that the esterone could be hitting E2 receptors in the breast and prostate, as well as hitting the HPTA. I don't know what a trial of a SERM might indicate by how you feel. I have no idea if a SERM impacts the prostate or not. After a few weeks your urine flow might suggest whats going on. As a limited trial, you might learn something interesting even with a SERM being unsuitable as a longer term thing.

 

[plymouth city]

I like alot of what your saying.

But let us not forget some underlying issues.

Estrone(E1) comes from 4 andro. E2 comes from E1 BUT ALSO testosterone. Remember that both Deca and Sus are known to have low testosterone converting to E2 (this is helpfull when injecting huige amounts in anabolic steroids users BTW), but not so much of a good idea for people on HRT as their SOLE and ONLY intake of Testosterone.

So someone like your friend who is using Deca + AI would have an E2 level in the crapper. Who knows also what the long term effects of using Sus + Deca are as sole intake of anabolic action within the body on estradoil - with all the T being produced exogenously and having little T - E conversion, PLUS the added AI action(and throw DIM in to boot) we could very well see a situation were someone becomes E1 dominant and E2 depressed.

 

[hardasnails1973]

I like alot of what your saying.

But let us not forget some underlying issues.

Estrone(E1) comes from 4 andro. E2 comes from E1 BUT ALSO testosterone. Remember that both Deca and Sus are known to have low testosterone converting to E2 (this is helpfull when injecting huige amounts in anabolic steroids users BTW), but not so much of a good idea for people on HRT as their SOLE and ONLY intake of Testosterone.

So someone like your friend who is using Deca + AI would have an E2 level in the crapper. Who knows also what the long term effects of using Sus + Deca are as sole intake of anabolic action within the body on estradoil - with all the T being produced exogenously and having little T - E conversion, PLUS the added AI action(and throw DIM in to boot) we could very well see a situation were someone becomes E1 dominant and E2 depressed.

I can see where you are coming from so techincally swithcing my freind from sust to stable test should bring e2 back in balance and after 5 weeks from the switch with no AI or dim he should be tested for e1 and e2 tested again to make sure the balance is correct and being his progesterone back into balance as well. By him using hcg and sustenon its producing way too much progesterone which is most likely converting to e1 vs e2 and as progesterone increases that will decrease dht and also drop e2 as well which could explain his lympy noodle hes been complaining about too. By him taking DIm it could possible lower his protective estrogens and opeing him up to the nasty side effects of the other estrogen (mainly esterone) Reason he is using sust is that all he had and drs would not do anything and it was getting to the point of severe depression and ED that was starting to affecting his job and relationships. Yes i like how were are really opening the doors and make people wheels really turn LOL

 

[plymouth city]

Great stuff. :study:

I would like to see your buddy frontload that stable ester, preferably CYP(cheaper) with an initial 200mg dose of T to get things going and get E2 up and rolling. Give that 5 or 6 days then

After then we can go with an EOD or E3D protocol with T + hCG.

Make sure we are getting plenty of Flax to help support E2 functioning. Once E gets rechecked in 4-6 weeks, then go from there.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Great stuff. :study:

I would like to see your buddy frontload that stable ester, preferably CYP(cheaper) with an initial 200mg dose of T to get things going and get E2 up and rolling. Give that 5 or 6 days then

After then we can go with an EOD or E3D protocol with T + hCG.

Make sure we are getting plenty of Flax to help support E2 functioning. Once E gets rechecked in 4-6 weeks, then go from there.

i agree and how does excessive progesterone effect inuslin sensitivity. progesterone lowers DHT why he gets noodle dic and dht increases inuslin sensitivity as well? so excessive progesterone causes inuslin resistance make sense? Could explain why he can not get a pump on carbs and gets disposits fats easily even with adquete test levels make sens ?

 

[plymouth city]

i agree and how does excessive progesterone effect inuslin sensitivity. progesterone lowers DHT why he gets noodle dic and dht increases inuslin sensitivity as well? so excessive progesterone causes inuslin resistance make sense? Could explain why he can not get a pump on carbs and gets disposits fats easily even with adquete test levels make sens ?

Estradoil plays a part in insuline sensitivity - http://ep.physoc.org/cgi/content/abstract/expphysiol.2006.035006v1

Another link showing favorable estradoil levels helps with insulin sensitivity - http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/289/4/R1064

This link also shows that progesterone and insulin sensitivity is still a gray area.

I am further amazed at estrogen and how important it is to the body(second link) once you study it. Its a shame how bad of a rap estrogen gets nowadays. This mostly comes from the fact that E2 needs to be kept in a very close sweet spot (I am near certain that number is 20 - 29). Unlike E, with T there is a huge playing field to swing for (500 - 900).

 

[JanSz]

Estradoil plays a part in insuline sensitivity - INSULIN SENSITIVITY IN STREPTOZOTOCIN INDUCED-DIABETIC RATS TREATED WITH DIFFERENT DOSES OF 17{beta}-ESTRADIOL OR PROGESTERONE -- Ordoñez et al., 10.1113/expphysiol.2006.035006 -- Experimental Physiology

Another link showing favorable estradoil levels helps with insulin sensitivity - Chronic estradiol and progesterone treatment in conscious dogs: effects on insulin sensitivity and response to hypoglycemia -- Batista et al. 289 (4): R1064 -- AJP - Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology

This link also shows that progesterone and insulin sensitivity is still a gray area.

I am further amazed at estrogen and how important it is to the body(second link) once you study it. Its a shame how bad of a rap estrogen gets nowadays. This mostly comes from the fact that E2 needs to be kept in a very close sweet spot (I am near certain that number is 20 - 29). Unlike E, with T there is a huge playing field to swing for (500 - 900).

You may be into something.
My E2=27
on my Oct/06 and Apr/07 tests.
So I tried 0.25ml of LiquiDex =1/4Arimidex pill/daily
On end of the week I almost blew my sex session.
Stopped Liquidex, week latter all is well (I am happy to report).
So, in my case E2=27 is what i need.

 

[plymouth city]

You may be into something.
My E2=27
on my Oct/06 and Apr/07 tests.
So I tried 0.25ml of LiquiDex =1/4Arimidex pill/daily
On end of the week I almost blew my sex session.
Stopped Liquidex, week latter all is well (I am happy to report).
So, in my case E2=27 is what i need.

Yep.

From reading your reports JansZ, I am certain your issues with energy and all around QOL stem from not enough T( your last report showed near 500). I think you would be best with a T level in 700's, give or take. I have learned that TD application is best on upper body, specifically upper back, chest, shoulder, arm area. Why? thats were receptors are located in more abundance. I think TD application on calves is not exactly ideal(I do understand you have no choice). Pregnenolone may be able to bypass that hurdle, given it breaks down into several compounds, but T in itself probably is having issues in respects to calf area. I see needles in your future. :whip:

JansZ you need your own log, many will benefit from your knowledge and experience, to much good info you post and report just gets lost in the mix. You can cut and paste all your good info on tests and everything else, etc, experiences, and such, it will be an invaluable tool. :afro:

 

[JanSz]

Yep.

From reading your reports JansZ, I am certain your issues with energy and all around QOL stem from not enough T( your last report showed near 500). I think you would be best with a T level in 700's, give or take. I have learned that TD application is best on upper body, specifically upper back, chest, shoulder, arm area. Why? thats were receptors are located in more abundance. I think TD application on calves is not exactly ideal(I do understand you have no choice). Pregnenolone may be able to bypass that hurdle, given it breaks down into several compounds, but T in itself probably is having issues in respects to calf area. I see needles in your future. :whip:

JansZ you need your own log, many will benefit from your knowledge and experience, to much good info you post and report just gets lost in the mix. You can cut and paste all your good info on tests and everything else, etc, experiences, and such, it will be an invaluable tool. :afro:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13.html#post827550

This may pass as my log.

A am not sure about my desirable T levels.
I oct/06 I had a
T=932ng/dL(241-827)
Free Testosterone=36.5pg/mL(6.6-18.1)

It was done at LabCorp and I was no aware then about Quest's (Free BioAvailable and Total Teststerone) tests.

My energy then was not much different than today.

Now I am on Armour and HCG but have less of T.
I am still searching.