New Bloodwork May 04

[Scottyo]

I am currently on 100iu HCG ED, .75ml of 50mg/ml of t-gel a day. Plus 35mg of HC, 1 grain armour (having trouble raising it). 50mg oral pregnenolone, 25 mg dhea 2x daily. 100mg DIM plus morning and dinner.

Testosterone Serum 417 241-827
Estradiol (e2) 10 0-53
Free Testosterone 11.1 9.3-26.5
Albumin 5.1 3.5-5.5
SHBG 27 13-71


Free T4 .98 .61-1.76
Free T3 2.5 2.3-4.2
Reverse T3 192 90-350
TSH 1.086 .350-5.500
Urine Osmolality 668 24h 300-900

ALT (SGPT) 41 0-55

 

[hardasnails1973]

I am currently on 100iu HCG ED, .75ml of 50mg/ml of t-gel a day. Plus 35mg of HC, 1 grain armour (having trouble raising it). 50mg oral pregnenolone, 25 mg dhea 2x daily. 100mg DIM plus morning and dinner.

Testosterone Serum 417 241-827
Estradiol (e2) 10 0-53
Free Testosterone 11.1 9.3-26.5
Albumin 5.1 3.5-5.5
SHBG 27 13-71


Free T4 .98 .61-1.76
Free T3 2.5 2.3-4.2
Reverse T3 192 90-350
TSH 1.086 .350-5.500
Urine Osmolality 668 24h 300-900

ALT (SGPT) 41 0-55

Was blood drawn before or after application of thyroid/ tcreame?
Dht, dhea, might want to be checked
e2 is way too low compared to shbg

are you using DIM based onlab results or just shot in the dark?

might want to look into possible iodine its helping alot of people with problems adjusting to thryoid medication
35 mgs cortisol is a little high this might cause adrenal suppression over time ..you might be getting hypo symptoms and need more armour and with that dosages of HC you should be able to handle increaess nicely

 

[Scottyo]

Was blood drawn before or after application of thyroid/ tcreame?
Dht, dhea, might want to be checked
e2 is way too low compared to shbg

are you using DIM based onlab results or just shot in the dark?

might want to look into possible iodine its helping alot of people with problems adjusting to thryoid medication
35 mgs cortisol is a little high this might cause adrenal suppression over time ..you might be getting hypo symptoms and need more armour and with that dosages of HC you should be able to handle increaess nicely

DIM was because I thought i was high...e2 was never too high, but i had hot flashes so to speak. 35mg cortef is if anything, LOW for me. I had real bad issues even trying to stay (rather than raise) my armour to 1 grain, and these tests show its still quote subpar.

All tests were done 45 minutes after application. Cant remember if i had taken the 25mg dhea yet or not. Tests were done at 830AM

 

[hardasnails1973]

DIM was because I thought i was high...e2 was never too high, but i had hot flashes so to speak. 35mg cortef is if anything, LOW for me. I had real bad issues even trying to stay (rather than raise) my armour to 1 grain, and these tests show its still quote subpar.

All tests were done 45 minutes after application. Cant remember if i had taken the 25mg dhea yet or not. Tests were done at 830AM

Testosteorne creams to my knowledge do not get into blood stream untill 2-4 hours till they peak (dr john please correct me on this). Do you salt your food with celtic seas salt and how many times you eat fish a week..

 

[Scottyo]

dont eat any fish at the moment. love it and would eat it often but besides the summer months and eating out, I get by with carlson's liquid fish oil. I HEAVILY salt everything. every meal, also 1/2tsp am and 5pm.

WHy would my e2 drop from 23 to 10 in 4 weeks? I thought dim didnt supposedly effect e2? what else would? and why would my test DROP (a bit...100 points or so) from slightly INCREASING my t-gel dose?

 

[hardasnails1973]

dont eat any fish at the moment. love it and would eat it often but besides the summer months and eating out, I get by with carlson's liquid fish oil. I HEAVILY salt everything. every meal, also 1/2tsp am and 5pm.

WHy would my e2 drop from 23 to 10 in 4 weeks? I thought dim didnt supposedly effect e2? what else would? and why would my test DROP (a bit...100 points or so) from slightly INCREASING my t-gel dose?

need to find out if its converting to dht. Fish contains iodine its main source. You salt your food at all ?

 

[Scottyo]

need to find out if its converting to dht. Fish contains iodine its main source. You salt your food at all ?

I SALT EVERYTHING. a lot on my food. I use some type of organic french imported sea salt. Stuff is greyish green.

Have never had aldosterone and renin levels checked. asked the doc and he said my pot. and sodium 'seem' normal.

 

[hardasnails1973]

I SALT EVERYTHING. a lot on my food.

what tye of salt celtic or table ? have you looked at aldosterone and renin levels

 

[Scottyo]

Anyone? I thought I would post my old results for comparison. ALso, why would my total and free test DROP while slightly increasing my t-gel dose (from .6ml to .8ml or so).

And why would the e2 drop so much? DIM, DIM or betaine anhydrous?

I thought I would post the old results to compare:

Estradiol 21 (0-53) Looks good?
Testosterone Serum 584 241-827
Albumin, Serum 5.0 3.5-5.5
SHBG Serum 23 13-71


TSH 1.738 .350-5.500
T4 5.4 4.5-12
t3 uptake 37 24-39
Free thyroxine index 2.0 1.2-4.9
Free t3 (about 1.5 weeks later) 2.3


Ive fluctuated my armour levels from .5grains up to 1.25 grains but never been able to hold at 1 grain or more for long. i am finally there now.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Anyone? I thought I would post my old results for comparison. ALso, why would my total and free test DROP while slightly increasing my t-gel dose (from .6ml to .8ml or so).

And why would the e2 drop so much? DIM, DIM or betaine anhydrous?

I thought I would post the old results to compare:

Estradiol 21 (0-53) Looks good?
Testosterone Serum 584 241-827
Albumin, Serum 5.0 3.5-5.5
SHBG Serum 23 13-71


TSH 1.738 .350-5.500
T4 5.4 4.5-12
t3 uptake 37 24-39
Free thyroxine index 2.0 1.2-4.9
Free t3 (about 1.5 weeks later) 2.3


Ive fluctuated my armour levels from .5grains up to 1.25 grains but never been able to hold at 1 grain or more for long. i am finally there now.

Takes time to undo thyroid receptor damage and for cellular changes to take place..how much sunlight you getting a day?

DIM DOES NOT ALTER E2, but it will clog up liver if there are not methyl groups and possible cause due to lack of blood flow from sluggish liver Some people taking time may need 1000 mgs TMG BID or even more depends on how depleted there supply is

 

[pmgamer18]

dont eat any fish at the moment. love it and would eat it often but besides the summer months and eating out, I get by with carlson's liquid fish oil. I HEAVILY salt everything. every meal, also 1/2tsp am and 5pm.

WHy would my e2 drop from 23 to 10 in 4 weeks? I thought dim didnt supposedly effect e2? what else would? and why would my test DROP (a bit...100 points or so) from slightly INCREASING my t-gel dose?

Scottyo who told you DIM does not lower E2 it converts E2 into E"s so the live can wash them out easer.
FAQs about Diindolylmethane
I have seen E2 come down on some good DIM in less then a week. Do you get morning wood or did you at a point in time on the DIM. Most get this back when starting DIM and getting there E2 down in the right zone. Some take to much and miss the zone and just go to low.

I stopped putting on the gels before a blood test after spikiing my tests 3 different times. You don't want to take Armour or DHEA before a blood test it will show high.

 

[JanSz]

Scottyo who told you DIM does not lower E2 it converts E2 into E"s so the live can wash them out easer.FAQs about Diindolylmethane
I have seen E2 come down on some good DIM in less then a week. Do you get morning wood or did you at a point in time on the DIM. Most get this back when starting DIM and getting there E2 down in the right zone. Some take to much and miss the zone and just go to low.

I stopped putting on the gels before a blood test after spikiing my tests 3 different times. You don't want to take Armour or DHEA before a blood test it will show high.

I do not think DIM is doing ANYTHING to E2.
It helps conversion of 2-OH Estradiol(good) and 16a-OH Estrone (bad). Less of bad (Estrone), if anything more of estradiol.
Lately I eat tons of DIM (and I3C+cruciferous concentrate+reveratol+TMG).
My Total Estrogens fall from extremely high to within range, same with Estrone.
My Estradiol (E2) stay put at 27, it did not budge even one digit.
My sex situation improved (but still lot of room for improvement).
I suspect that taking DIM (Indolplex and similar) alone is not a good thing.

Note, do not believe that men do not need to test Total Estrogens because it is always high and nothing can be done about it.

 

[Scottyo]

I have always taken TMG and Sam-e with my DIM. I take 100mg DIM at morning and dinner. 500-1g of tmg same time. I do sam-e 200mg first thing am and pre-dinner.

How is it my e2 has fallen so much? I do not get morning wood or wood at all anymore....except sometimes spontaneously at bedtime (10pm). Feels very similar to morning wood as no real arousal.

Can anyone explain whats going on here? Dr. John? I know i need to increase thyroid, but its so hard just to keep it even at 1 grain now without my adrenals getting blown out. 2 out of the last 3 days ive woken up at 4-5AM. normally I get up at 8am. When I awake, my temp is 96.7ish (at the 4-5am mark). normally i awake and its around 97.5. Will rise to around 98.0 during the day. Also, would some jaw and face tightness signal anything with the thyroid? what about this damn facial flush that is always worse when i feel BAD? i feel like i need to raise cortef again...but im already at 35mg

 

[pmgamer18]

I can't speck for all DIM's but Indolplex/DIM does lower E2 by converting it into E's so if you convert something into something different then there is less.

I do not think DIM is doing ANYTHING to E2.
It helps conversion of 2-OH Estradiol(good) and 16a-OH Estrone (bad). Less of bad (Estrone), if anything more of estradiol.
Lately I eat tons of DIM (and I3C+cruciferous concentrate+reveratol+TMG).
My Total Estrogens fall from extremely high to within range, same with Estrone.
My Estradiol (E2) stay put at 27, it did not budge even one digit.
My sex situation improved (but still lot of room for improvement).
I suspect that taking DIM (Indolplex and similar) alone is not a good thing.

Note, do not believe that men do not need to test Total Estrogens because it is always high and nothing can be done about it.

 

[Scottyo]

Bump for Dr. John.


Anyone else too on the bloodwork?

I think the reason the test dropped (maybe e2 as well) is because of switching from Novarel to APP HCG. NEver again.

 

[wildfox]

Perhaps that DIM is too much for you. Your total T is low, so there isn't as much to aromatize to estrogen as would be the case for someone with twice you levels. So, you don't need so much DIM to convert E2 to other estrogens. Remember DIM does not reduce conversion of T to E, it helps the liver to convert E2 to other stuff, along with the TMG.

I'd cut back on the DIM and ask your doctor about increasing the HCG.

 

[Scottyo]

Perhaps that DIM is too much for you. Your total T is low, so there isn't as much to aromatize to estrogen as would be the case for someone with twice you levels. So, you don't need so much DIM to convert E2 to other estrogens. Remember DIM does not reduce conversion of T to E, it helps the liver to convert E2 to other stuff, along with the TMG.

I'd cut back on the DIM and ask your doctor about increasing the HCG.

Thanks for the update. From the bloodwork, I have actually increased my hcg to 120iu daily (and since its APP crap, im not sure how much that even is) and increased my t-gel to 1ml of the 50mg/ml. And haev felt much better, while also slowly increasing the armour dose...since ive been able to handle it better now.

Still, is DIM the right thing to be on once things normalize? or is it only if my e2 starts creeping up?

 

[1cc]

All tests were done 45 minutes after application. Cant remember if i had taken the 25mg dhea yet or not. Tests were done at 830AM

T labs should be done 3 hours after application. DHEA sulfate labs need to be done 3-4 hours after taking DHEA. DHEA needs to be taken after breakfast with something oily or fatty to aid absorption. If your food is not oily or fatty enough, then take 1 tablespoon olive oil, or take fish oil with DHEA after breakfast.

WHy would my e2 drop from 23 to 10 in 4 weeks? I thought dim didnt supposedly effect e2?

As Phil mentioned, DIM will drop E2, probably converting it to other E’s. Stop DIM and your wood may return as a result.

50mg oral pregnenolone

Check your progesterone. Pregnenolone increases progesterone. It is very likely that your progesterone is over the top of the lab range. I take 10mg pregnenolone per day. Keep your progesterone within the normal range.

Have never had aldosterone and renin levels checked

Aldosterone should increase as a result of pregnenolone supplementation.

ALso, why would my total and free test DROP while slightly increasing my t-gel dose

Your T labs are invalid because they were taken too soon after application.

I think the reason the test dropped (maybe e2 as well) is because of switching from Novarel to APP HCG.

APP brand is fine. I use it and it works, and I have the labs to prove it.

I have actually increased my hcg to 120iu daily

100iu max of HCG per day is all you need. Any more and you may encounter estrogen and progesterone problems.

i feel like i need to raise cortef again...but im already at 35mg

Any more than 20mg per day and you risk shutting down your Adrenals permanently. You are already at 42mg per day, which is way too high.

I highly recommend that you try to find a good doctor that knows what he is doing.
I only know of the following doctors that I would recommend:

Dr. John – Michigan
Dr. Marianco – Northern California
Dr. Philip Miller – Northern California
Dr. Shippen

 

[Scottyo]

thanks for the comments. like i said in the other post....i STILL have low blood pressure and STILL have low pulse and lightheadness until I increased to much higher than 20mg of cortef. It was just too little...all the docs agreed to that.

im now off the tgel and trying 250mg of hcg daily but i dont think thats really helping. i think i need to go back to tgel or switch to shots, but I dont get bloodwork for another week.

I still have all the hypothyroid signs....low temp, constipation, depression, and lack of energy...but even on the high cortef dose I still am very tired in the mornings.

 

[hardasnails1973]

thanks for the comments. like i said in the other post....i STILL have low blood pressure and STILL have low pulse and lightheadness until I increased to much higher than 20mg of cortef. It was just too little...all the docs agreed to that.

im now off the tgel and trying 250mg of hcg daily but i dont think thats really helping. i think i need to go back to tgel or switch to shots, but I dont get bloodwork for another week.

I still have all the hypothyroid signs....low temp, constipation, depression, and lack of energy...but even on the high cortef dose I still am very tired in the mornings.

Look into aldosterone and renin next. If you are still low on blood pressure then you are lossing salt to fast and may need medication for that. Reason you may be getting hypo is because there is not enough thyrooid available to the body because cortisol is increasing the need more it.

 

[Scottyo]

hmm...intersting. My doc has not checked aldosterone or renin although he has me on florinef .1mg which seems to have helped some things. Although other conditions remain, some have gotten better.

What do you mean though by the cortisol increasing the need for more thyroid? im not too familiar with what your suggesting. are you saying that having ENOUGH cortisol will use up thyroid faster? Think i hvae to raise it above 3 grains?

 

[pmgamer18]

What Hardasnails is saying is you need cortisol to carry the thyroid hormone from the blood into the cells. If you have Adrenal Fatigue and treat it with Cortisol or Cortef. Then you can start upping your dose of Armour say 15mgs every 2 weeks up to 3 grains then you need to hold at this for about 6 to 8 weeks. Like 1cc said you on a lot of HC 35 mgs a day if your not feeling better at this high a dose and your on florinef try switching your HC to medrol, read this thread.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=9783&sid=d33c7b2b56eb6c8b3756adc9f6bd597b
Here is a good link to read.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=8562

hmm...intersting. My doc has not checked aldosterone or renin although he has me on florinef .1mg which seems to have helped some things. Although other conditions remain, some have gotten better.

What do you mean though by the cortisol increasing the need for more thyroid? im not too familiar with what your suggesting. are you saying that having ENOUGH cortisol will use up thyroid faster? Think i hvae to raise it above 3 grains?