Lab Results after 1 month on Androgel

[Rausch]

Hey guys - after being on 5grams/day of Androgel for one month here are my results:

Total Test: 434 on scale of 300-900 (up from 143)
Free Test: 18.97 on scale of 8-27 (up from 7)

So I guess the Androgel has been successful, but I still don't feel 100%. 434 is still quite low for a 24 yr old anyway, I think. The doc says I'm in normal range and refuses to up my dose to 7.5 or even 10 grams, despite how I feel. Also, as I mentioned in a previous thread, since I sweat so much throughout the day, I might be sabotaging myself. Either way I'd rather increase the dose, but she won't budge.

Should I expect my blood levels to rise anymore over time or are they stabilized at 1 month?

I guess this goes back to me finding another endo or another doctor...which frankly, between my work and home responsibilities, is quite hard to do...

What do you guys think?

 

[plymouth city]

E2?

 

[Rausch]

E2?

She didn't want to test anything aside from free and total test. She didn't feel anything else was necessary. So this test is null and void without E2?

 

[plymouth city]

She didn't want to test anything aside from free and total test. She didn't feel anything else was necessary. So this test is null and void without E2?

:toofunny:

 

[plymouth city]

Run from this doctor. Run run run.

She is clueless.

Where are you located?

 

[Rausch]

Run from this doctor. Run run run.

She is clueless.

Where are you located?

I am in Raleigh/Durham, NC...if you can help me find a doctor that will actually listen to me and understand my situation I will found a religion in your honor.

 

[fit4life05]

I am in Raleigh/Durham, NC...if you can help me find a doctor that will actually listen to me and understand my situation I will found a religion in your honor.

Make a trip up to Dr John. It's sounds like a hassle, but in the long run it really is the best way to go...

You only need to see him once...after that you can consult with him over the phone

 

[plymouth city]

I am in Raleigh/Durham, NC...if you can help me find a doctor that will actually listen to me and understand my situation I will found a religion in your honor.

Bro, can you actually give me a challenge?

Take your Pic. Do your research on them first.

The World Health Network - Anti-Aging and Longevity

The World Health Network - Anti-Aging and Longevity

Got these two from here - The World Health Network - Anti-Aging and Longevity

I checked them out a little. From what I read they seem to know a few things. Not Dr John, But you will be much better off than were your at now.

 

[biker340]

Raush,

I have been on the same Androgel doseage as you for the past 4 months..

What you will notice soon if not already that your nut sack will start to get tucked up close to your body. Like jumping into a cold pool. This will mean that that your LH and FSH are suppressed, have them checked. I did and found that they were below normal due to the Androgel shutting down your system. You'll go back to your doctor and you'll ask him/her if they can put you on HCG, per Dr. John's recommendations. Then your doctor will freak and say no because most doctors are clueless beyond giving out Androgel..

Right now I am with an Urologist who is trying to get the LH and FSH numbers up..

 

[Rausch]

Raush,

I have been on the same Androgel doseage as you for the past 4 months..

What you will notice soon if not already that your nut sack will start to get tucked up close to your body. Like jumping into a cold pool. This will mean that that your LH and FSH are suppressed, have them checked. I did and found that they were below normal due to the Androgel shutting down your system. You'll go back to your doctor and you'll ask him/her if they can put you on HCG, per Dr. John's recommendations. Then your doctor will freak and say no because most doctors are clueless beyond giving out Androgel..

Right now I am with an Urologist who is trying to get the LH and FSH numbers up..

My LH and FSH were suppressed pre-TRT...

 

[Rausch]

Bro, can you actually give me a challenge?

Take your Pic. Do your research on them first.

The World Health Network - Anti-Aging and Longevity

The World Health Network - Anti-Aging and Longevity

Got these two from here - The World Health Network - Anti-Aging and Longevity

I checked them out a little. From what I read they seem to know a few things. Not Dr John, But you will be much better off than were your at now.

Unfortunately those locations are in Charlotte, which is a 3 hour drive for me. I guess I'll ask my GP if she knows another endo.

 

[JanSz]

Hey guys - after being on 5grams/day of Androgel for one month here are my results:

Total Test: 434 on scale of 300-900 (up from 143)
Free Test: 18.97 on scale of 8-27 (up from 7)

So I guess the Androgel has been successful, but I still don't feel 100%. 434 is still quite low for a 24 yr old anyway, I think. The doc says I'm in normal range and refuses to up my dose to 7.5 or even 10 grams, despite how I feel. Also, as I mentioned in a previous thread, since I sweat so much throughout the day, I might be sabotaging myself. Either way I'd rather increase the dose, but she won't budge.

Should I expect my blood levels to rise anymore over time or are they stabilized at 1 month?

I guess this goes back to me finding another endo or another doctor...which frankly, between my work and home responsibilities, is quite hard to do...

What do you guys think?

This is first month.
Your testis are probably still working, some.
Expect your TotalT to get down some.
You need at least 7.5gram Androgel and 250IU HCG/day
Try to switch to a Tcream.
The more dense the better. I use 10%, 100mg/1gram.
You could put it on you calfs, they are not sweating that much.
My best on 5gram Androgel was 664.
Make sure you are not spilling anything, do it slowly and in very small amounts, do not wash you hands (and do not touch women and children).

 

[plymouth city]

Unfortunately those locations are in Charlotte, which is a 3 hour drive for me. I guess I'll ask my GP if she knows another endo.

You must be suffering from low T if ya can't drive 3 hours to see a specialist!

Its only 3 hours. Drive it! No problem. People drive from out of state to go see specialists. Im sure Dr J can attest to that. I drive to chicago, 4 hours away, for the fun of it. :drunk:

Muster up what T you got left and do it :run:

 

[Rausch]

You must be suffering from low T if ya can't drive 3 hours to see a specialist!

Its only 3 hours. Drive it! No problem. People drive from out of state to go see specialists. Im sure Dr J can attest to that. I drive to chicago, 4 hours away, for the fun of it. :drunk:

Muster up what T you got left and do it :run:

I appreciate your enthusiasm, and your assistance, but it's just not realistic. I have a job and a very tight budget. I already got another referral from my GP, so I;ll see how that goes I guess.

My fear is that 90% of the specialists out there are idiots about this stuff and there is only that 10% that Dr. John falls into that really understand male hormones...

 

[plymouth city]

I appreciate your enthusiasm, and your assistance, but it's just not realistic. I have a job and a very tight budget. I already got another referral from my GP, so I;ll see how that goes I guess.

My fear is that 90% of the specialists out there are idiots about this stuff and there is only that 10% that Dr. John falls into that really understand male hormones...

More like 1 percent, LOL.

Anyways, if I can help feel free to ask away.

 

[ItsHectic]

if you can help me find a doctor that will actually listen to me and understand my situation I will found a religion in your honor.

LOL, I am making a mental note of that one.

Just curious how your applying your gel? I have heard people suggest not to rub it in too much, well I tested at 760ng/dl on testogel, and the way I apply it is I take out about 2g rub it around on one arm in a circular motion and before it starts getting sticky i wipe the excess to my traps and start rubbing it in there, then repeat for the other side, then take out about 1/2 gram for each flank and do the same, rubbing it in, in a circular motion. During the 1st month I noticed the less I rubbed it in the more frosting I got.

 

[wildfox]

I appreciate your circumstances, but your doctor is ignorant. Perhaps you can find another doctor who contracts with your insurance who is willing to read Dr. John's TRT-A Recipe for Success. I believe he will work on a consult basis with your primary doctor. She obviously has a lot to learn.

Your T is "normal" but not optimal." You need to know what your E2 and other values are because hormones work together in a context. They do not work in isolation. Your doc probably got a C+ in physiology. What a shame.

What you can do is read Dr. John's literature at AllThingsMale.com and scour the archives here.

We can give you info, but sadly we can't prescribe better treatment for you.

 

[fit4life05]

50% of doctors graduated at the bottom half of their class

 

[ItsHectic]

I dont think doctors' inteligence or exam marks is the issue, its there attitude, very unimaginative and conservative by the book dont ask questions type of people, which I guess is what the professors want, and the type of minds you get, to be a doctor you need to retain HUGE amounts of infomation and be able to recall it, so imagination and creativity must be the tradeoff.

 

[plymouth city]

50% of doctors graduated at the bottom half of their class

What do they call the guy who graduated last in his class at Med school?

A doctor. :clap2:

 

[hardasnails1973]

I appreciate your enthusiasm, and your assistance, but it's just not realistic. I have a job and a very tight budget. I already got another referral from my GP, so I;ll see how that goes I guess.

My fear is that 90% of the specialists out there are idiots about this stuff and there is only that 10% that Dr. John falls into that really understand male hormones...

With out your health you do not have your job !!
Thats like saying your a billionaire and but are bed ridden. What good is it going you to do with out ability to enjoy it. You only get one body, you can always find another job !!

 

[aculpep]

Ah this is a question I've been wanting to ask now for awhile! Is this a good way to tell if your not producing enough Testosterone? If your sack is always pulled up tight? I have had this problem for forever and always wondered if something was wrong. My goal is to try to start my body kicking up it's own production before going on TRT.


What you will notice soon if not already that your nut sack will start to get tucked up close to your body.

Raush,

I have been on the same Androgel doseage as you for the past 4 months..

What you will notice soon if not already that your nut sack will start to get tucked up close to your body. Like jumping into a cold pool. This will mean that that your LH and FSH are suppressed, have them checked. I did and found that they were below normal due to the Androgel shutting down your system. You'll go back to your doctor and you'll ask him/her if they can put you on HCG, per Dr. John's recommendations. Then your doctor will freak and say no because most doctors are clueless beyond giving out Androgel..

Right now I am with an Urologist who is trying to get the LH and FSH numbers up..

 

[biker340]

I was giving my situation after being on Androgel for Four months. When I noticed this happening, I went back to my doctor and had him check my FSH and LH levels.
They were,, FSH <.07 (1.6-8.0)
LH 0.3 (1.5-9.3)

 

[JanSz]

I was giving my situation after being on Androgel for Four months. When I noticed this happening, I went back to my doctor and had him check my FSH and LH levels.
They were,, FSH <.07 (1.6-8.0)
LH 0.3 (1.5-9.3)

You basically wasted your money.
Everybody who takes testosterone supplementation have suppressed LH and FSH.
This type of test have a value when you do it before you start t supplementation. It is used to figure out if you are primary or secondary.

 

[pmgamer18]

I appreciate your enthusiasm, and your assistance, but it's just not realistic. I have a job and a very tight budget. I already got another referral from my GP, so I;ll see how that goes I guess.

My fear is that 90% of the specialists out there are idiots about this stuff and there is only that 10% that Dr. John falls into that really understand male hormones...

All you need to do is up your gel to a higher dose your levels are still to low. If you feel you need a new Dr. read the sticky "Finding a new Dr."

 

[JanSz]

I was giving my situation after being on Androgel for Four months. When I noticed this happening, I went back to my doctor and had him check my FSH and LH levels.
They were,, FSH <.07 (1.6-8.0)
LH 0.3 (1.5-9.3)

Usually you will need
Androgel 10grams
if you like to keep your balls add
250IU/day HCG

The thing is, of your balls are capable of producing T then you only need steady HCG.

Testing and more testing, just the proper testing will give you correct way of action.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Applying too little of Androgel makes you worst not better.

 

[JanSz]

Not true.

Good statement,

but I ended my thought with:

"Testing and more testing, just the proper testing will give you correct way of action."

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

I wasn't ranked highly in my class. There is very little correlation between rankings and how we will be later as physicians.

True with most professions.

I know people who where at the top of their class and people at the bottom who were over acheivers.

Funny how the real world tends to kick some asses.

 

[Rausch]

So I am actually scared of my current endo at this point. I tried to confront her about all the B.S. she was throwing my way...it was kinda sad really:

Me: My chest is getting somewhat sensitive. I know you didn't test my estrogen levels yet, but do you prescribe anti-estrogens?

Her: No, we don't normally do that.

Me: but what if my estrogen is getting high?

Her: It shouldn't on 5 grams of androgel. Are you developing breast tissue?

Me: Not yet, but I know hormones well enough to know when it's time to add an anti-estrogen, or at least have my levels checked.

Her: If you started to develop breast tissue, we would take you off the Androgel. We don't prescribe anti-estrogens.

Me: So what happens to my test levels if my estrogen gets too high and you take me off androgel? Doesn't that leave me worse off than before?

Her: Well, that's kind of a gray area. It shouldn't happen.

==================

The conversation just went downhill from there. I asked her why she thinks putting me on Androgel would make my LH and FSH levels come back. She said we had to wait and see, even after I explained that it had been 15+ months since I touched anabolic steroids. Her whole motivation for not letting me increase my test levels into a comfortable range was that if we got into the upper range of normal, we would suppress LH and FSH. That logic is so flawed it's ridiculous--wouldn't they already be supressed? Oh and here's the best part. If my LH and FSH somehow magically come back to normal, she takes me off androgel, cold turkey. I asked her: Won't that just leave me with no natural test? She said no, because 5 grams Androgel will not shut you down....

Kill me now.

I got yet another referral from my GP for another endo, but they can't see me for another month. This is like a bad dream.

 

[engival]

go see Dr. Shippen, its not that far from you or dr. John if you feel like flying

 

[JanSz]

So I am actually scared of my current endo at this point. I tried to confront her about all the B.S. she was throwing my way...it was kinda sad really:

Me: My chest is getting somewhat sensitive. I know you didn't test my estrogen levels yet, but do you prescribe anti-estrogens?

Her: No, we don't normally do that.

Me: but what if my estrogen is getting high?

Her: It shouldn't on 5 grams of androgel. Are you developing breast tissue?

Me: Not yet, but I know hormones well enough to know when it's time to add an anti-estrogen, or at least have my levels checked.

Her: If you started to develop breast tissue, we would take you off the Androgel. We don't prescribe anti-estrogens.

Me: So what happens to my test levels if my estrogen gets too high and you take me off androgel? Doesn't that leave me worse off than before?

Her: Well, that's kind of a gray area. It shouldn't happen.

==================

The conversation just went downhill from there. I asked her why she thinks putting me on Androgel would make my LH and FSH levels come back. She said we had to wait and see, even after I explained that it had been 15+ months since I touched anabolic steroids. Her whole motivation for not letting me increase my test levels into a comfortable range was that if we got into the upper range of normal, we would suppress LH and FSH. That logic is so flawed it's ridiculous--wouldn't they already be supressed? Oh and here's the best part. If my LH and FSH somehow magically come back to normal, she takes me off androgel, cold turkey. I asked her: Won't that just leave me with no natural test? She said no, because 5 grams Androgel will not shut you down....

Kill me now.

I got yet another referral from my GP for another endo, but they can't see me for another month. This is like a bad dream.

When you bang your head against the wall and it hurts you have a choice.

Scratch endos from your doctors list.

Get a list of about 10 doctors and start interviewing by phone.
Talk to their nurses first.
Use this two links to prospect.
American Osteopathic Association

Thyroid Disease Information Source -- Bestselling Books, News, Information on Living Well With Hypothyroidism, Autoimmune Disease, Thyroid Diet, Home Page of Mary Shomon

If you can, see:
Dr John
Dr Shippen
dr Marianco
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line, if you are comfortable or do not have a better choice;
find any easy going doctor who would write script for you when asked.
Usually when you appear as you know about subject it would put your doctor at ease.
---------------------------------------------
My doctor is at ZIP 07410

 

[Rausch]

go see Dr. Shippen, its not that far from you or dr. John if you feel like flying

Who is Dr. Shippen and where is he located?

I've already looked into Dr. John. I can't afford it.

 

[JanSz]

Who is Dr. Shippen and where is he located?

I've already looked into Dr. John. I can't afford it.

Get a second job, your life is worth it.

More expensive:
Shippen Eugene MD
9 E Lancaster Ave
Shillington, PA 19607
(610) 777-7896

 

[plymouth city]

Get a second job, your life is worth it.

More expensive:
Shippen Eugene MD
9 E Lancaster Ave
Shillington, PA 19607
(610) 777-7896

I already found him an antiaging Dr a million times smarter than this idiot endo a mere 3 hour drive away.

Come on Rauch, you can do it. Make appointment. Buckle seatbelt. Drive. You got this. :bruce3:

I will tell you this. Nothing would give me more satisfaction(women not included) then walking into this ladies office as a laymen and giving her a verbal smackdown on HRT.

 

[ohiostate2827]

anyone know a good doc in ohio? im 27yrs old test levels are 189.did a few cycles,took paxil for about 7yrs, low libido and somewhat ed probs need help please

 

[fit4life05]

anyone know a good doc in ohio? im 27yrs old test levels are 189.did a few cycles,took paxil for about 7yrs, low libido and somewhat ed probs need help please

no joke ur close enough to dr john, that is ur best bet otherwise youll be looking for a decent dr for years

it really isnt much of a hassle. u only need to visit him once

 

[engival]

hehe he's inbetween Dr. JOhn and Dr. Shippen : )~

 

[plymouth city]

anyone know a good doc in ohio? im 27yrs old test levels are 189.did a few cycles,took paxil for about 7yrs, low libido and somewhat ed probs need help please

Another guy with low T and depression/SSRI history.

These seem to get more common by the day.

Which came first the chicken or the egg(low T or the depression)

Anyways enough rambling, go see Dr J, your 27 I don't wanna hear any whiny BS excuses :nono: , make a road trip out of it.

allthingsmale.com

 

[engival]

'SRIs (or SSRIs/SNRIs) anti-depression drugs cause chronic excessive prolactin production (called HyperProlactimia, a pituitary functional disorder) to block the brain's dopamine nervous function in the hypothalamus-pituitary axis responsible for emotional and orgasm hormone oxytocin release, and interfere with other neurotransmitter systems and syntheses and hormonal production by overloading the liver P450 detoxification system, and blocks the spinal nervous transmission in the synapses with a flooding of serotonin due to the re-uptaking inhabitation action. It alternates the gene expression of the dopamine D2 receptors, acetylcholine receptors, and 5-HT (Serotonin) 2C receptors. Therefore, it disables the erectile nervous function in the penis/clitoris and G-spot, the seminal production or vaginal lubrication and de-sensitizes the nerves in the penis, prostate, seminal vesicles, clitoris, G-spot, vagina, cervix and uterus for no more sexual orgasm. Particularly, you will never achieve orgasm or produce semen with a a high level of prolactin in your blood stream and the desensitized sensory and blocked parasympathetic and sympathetic nerves. SSRIs will kill your sexual function naturally via the destruction of the pituitary and liver function. SSRIS drugs only inhibit the re-uptaking of serotonin in the nervous synapse, but actually decrease the serotonin synthesis in the nervous terminals due to their destruction effects on the liver P450. Taking SSRIs drugs may reduce the serotonin nervous action on the neuromsucular ending receptors in the guts, bladder, urethra, prostate and anus for incontinence. By the way, excessive prolactin in the bloodstream reduced the testosterone and DHT release from the testicles and ovaries, resulting in bone and muscle weakness, in addition to disabling sexual functions and responses and seminal production. '

 

[ohiostate2827]

no joke ur close enough to dr john, that is ur best bet otherwise youll be looking for a decent dr for years

it really isnt much of a hassle. u only need to visit him once

where is dr john located?

 

[wildfox]

where is dr john located?

AllThingsMale.com

Lansing, MI

 

[Rausch]

When you bang your head against the wall and it hurts you have a choice.

Scratch endos from your doctors list.

Get a list of about 10 doctors and start interviewing by phone.
Talk to their nurses first.
Use this two links to prospect.
American Osteopathic Association

Thyroid Disease Information Source -- Bestselling Books, News, Information on Living Well With Hypothyroidism, Autoimmune Disease, Thyroid Diet, Home Page of Mary Shomon

If you can, see:
Dr John
Dr Shippen
dr Marianco
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line, if you are comfortable or do not have a better choice;
find any easy going doctor who would write script for you when asked.
Usually when you appear as you know about subject it would put your doctor at ease.
---------------------------------------------
My doctor is at ZIP 07410

I already looked into the Osteopathic route, but did not see any viable doctors in my area. Well at least, not that my insurance can cover.

The other problem with these anti-aging clinics, is, I think most insurance companies will not cover them.

It's just so damn frustrating. I'm not privileged enough to be able to afford plane tix to Michigan and a $300 consultation fee. I want to, I REALLY do.

It's just sad when the only way I can receive the right medical help for my condition is if I have a lot of expendable income. I struggle to get through my monthly bills...there's no way I can go out and find a specialist that I have to pay a lot of money up front to.

 

[engival]

my doctor is a DO and doesnt know anything about hormones here are some of his classic quotes
"you dont need LH,FSH, there for women!"
" Free T3 is outdated"
"Your testosterone of 360 is great!"
"Armour is very dangerous, synthyroid is extremely effective"

 

[JanSz]

I already looked into the Osteopathic route, but did not see any viable doctors in my area. Well at least, not that my insurance can cover.

The other problem with these anti-aging clinics, is, I think most insurance companies will not cover them.

It's just so damn frustrating. I'm not privileged enough to be able to afford plane tix to Michigan and a $300 consultation fee. I want to, I REALLY do.

It's just sad when the only way I can receive the right medical help for my condition is if I have a lot of expendable income. I struggle to get through my monthly bills...there's no way I can go out and find a specialist that I have to pay a lot of money up front to.

Money does not bring happiness, but it helps to lease it.

Your minimum, have to find a doctor that would write scripts for blood tests and medicines.
Information may come from this board and similar sources.

Some doctors do public service, may not charge for some services.

My GP, does lot of public service, hi is a zip 07054.
He is good for blood work scripts and Androgel nothing else in this area.

At least you are in USA (I guess) that is a huge head start.

So, go to school get education, then get a job and make some money.
Good education and a good job are even more importanf for people with poor health.
------------------------
I just hope I did not offended you, definitely not my intention.

 

[Rausch]

Money does not bring happiness, but it helps to lease it.

Your minimum, have to find a doctor that would write scripts for blood tests and medicines.
Information may come from this board and similar sources.

Some doctors do public service, may not charge for some services.

My GP, does lot of public service, hi is a zip 07054.
He is good for blood work scripts and Androgel nothing else.

At least you are in USA (I guess) that is a huge head start.

So, go to school get education, then get a job and make some money.
Good education and a good job are even more importanf for people with poor health.

Oh my God...it's so simple. Why didn't I see that? Go to school and get a good job? Wow, that's amazing insight.

Sarcasm aside, you made a lot of bad assumptions in your post; some of which, I find insulting. I did go to school and graduated from an accredited university and I have a decent entry level job at a small startup company. I'm 24 yrs old and I have enough debt (medical bills, car loan, etc.) to keep all the money I earn tied up for years. I'm not some unemployed loser. I work hard for what I have, it's just that there's only so much I can do money-wise right now.

Please stop making assumptions and absolutely do not try to simplify my situation.



EDIT: I realize that you may have been trying to help, but please think and/or ask questions before you make assumptions.

 

[JanSz]

Oh my God...it's so simple. Why didn't I see that? Go to school and get a good job? Wow, that's amazing insight.

Sarcasm aside, you made a lot of bad assumptions in your post; some of which, I find insulting. I did go to school and graduated from an accredited university and I have a decent entry level job at a small startup company. I'm 24 yrs old and I have enough debt (medical bills, car loan, etc.) to keep all the money I earn tied up for years. I'm not some unemployed loser. I work hard for what I have, it's just that there's only so much I can do money-wise right now.

Please stop making assumptions and absolutely do not try to simplify my situation.

Glad to hear that you are not a loser.
Sorry for bad assumptions.
Post you lattest blood tests with units and ranges.
Post your complaints.
Expand on medical bills, why did you incur them, what have you treated?
----------------------
Cut up your credit cards.

 

[biker340]

Here's another one for your list. I was told,,,,
"You do not need to have your E2 tested, you do not have breasts"

And great post about ant-depressants. I had a doctor prescribe me Paxil to cure my sometimes too quick orgasms..
After reading your post, I think my wife will have to settle for Mr. Two Pump Charlie,,,,

my doctor is a DO and doesnt know anything about hormones here are some of his classic quotes
"you dont need LH,FSH, there for women!"
" Free T3 is outdated"
"Your testosterone of 360 is great!"
"Armour is very dangerous, synthyroid is extremely effective"