Dr. John what not SERMS for HRT

[Realgains]

Hi Dr. John.

I am wondering why a serm like clomid would not be a good choice for HRT for men that have low T due to lack of LH?
One concern may be the potential visual and vision sides from long term clomid, although I never experienced these with post steroid cycle therapy(when I used androgens).

Several studies, as you know, have documented significant increases in T with as little as 25 mg of clomid per day.
In fact one study showed 1.5 to 2 fold increase in T.




Thanx

 

[JanSz]

Hi Dr. John.

I am wondering why a serm like clomid would not be a good choice for HRT for men that have low T due to lack of LH?
One concern may be the potential visual and vision sides from long term clomid, although I never experienced these with post steroid cycle therapy(when I used androgens).

Several studies, as you know, have documented significant increases in T with as little as 25 mg of clomid per day.
In fact one study showed 1.5 to 2 fold increase in T.

Thanx

Dr John have Clomid in the list of medications for use by his patients.
AllThingsMale.com
http://www.allthingsmale.com/pdfs/clomid.pdf

 

[pmgamer18]

Clomid has some bad sides and one is eyes this is not good for long term TRT.

Hi Dr. John.

I am wondering why a serm like clomid would not be a good choice for HRT for men that have low T due to lack of LH?
One concern may be the potential visual and vision sides from long term clomid, although I never experienced these with post steroid cycle therapy(when I used androgens).

Several studies, as you know, have documented significant increases in T with as little as 25 mg of clomid per day.
In fact one study showed 1.5 to 2 fold increase in T.




Thanx

 

[Realgains]

Clomid has some bad sides and one is eyes this is not good for long term TRT.

Columbia University Health Services Strategic Plan Announcement

 

[biker340]

I am currently on Clomid in an effort to get my LH and FSH numbers up from being suppressed while on Androgel..
Today is day 5 and so far no side effects.

 

[biker340]

Why not just use HCG? It will directly stimulate the LH receptors, and more.

My doctor wanted me to go on Clomid for 4 weeks first, taper off the Androgel, then add in HCG.

 

[JanSz]

Here's a quote from this paper:
"explains Dr. Fisch. The increase in testosterone would then be accomplished without side effects,” he adds. "

This misstatement is pretty typical of those who favor SERM's as "TRT". The same goes for use of an "AI".

Estrogen is an important player in our bodies. We need to leave it alone as much as possible.

No one who is considered a top Thought Leader in my field uses SERM's this way.

Dr. Shippen recently pointed out that they interfere with estrogen alpha and beta receptor in the brain.

I believe the best strategy is to use a pure Testoserone delivery system, always add HCG, along with DHEA and pregnenolone, in order to "backfill" the metabolic pathways.

"

Forget SERM's, what to do when estrogen is high.

Actually, how to look at estrogens, there is so many of them, is E2 really the only one we worry about?

(DHEA, pregnenolone, resveratrol, DIM, I3C, 7,8 benzoflavone, chrysin, Arimidex)
anything else, what proportions how to deliver it?

 

[JanSz]

Different topic=different thread.

I do think we have discussed this topic here numerous times.

I am sure some good soul will bale me out and post numerous links to those discussions.

Prefferalby with relevant quotes.

.

 

[biker340]

Well I just got my blood test results for being on Clomid for 4 weeks at 50mg/d

Total test 95 (250-1100)
Free test 23.8 (46-224)
Bio test 51.0 (110-575)
SHBG 10 (8-46)

Doc did not want to do a LH and FSH test, so no results..

Needless to say, Clomid didn't work for me.
Time for some HCG..

 

[KSman]

Well I just got my blood test results for being on Clomid for 4 weeks at 50mg/d

Total test 95 (250-1100)
Free test 23.8 (46-224)
Bio test 51.0 (110-575)
SHBG 10 (8-46)

Doc did not want to do a LH and FSH test, so no results..

Needless to say, Clomid didn't work for me.
Time for some HCG..

You could try the HCG as a challenge. But the clomid probably should have jacked up your LH which should have showed up as more T. So either the pituitary is not able to release the LH as expected, or the testes are now not responding. The HCG would answer that question nicely. Either via T levels or from observing that your testes are getting bigger and hanging down more as one would expect.

250iu SQ EOD of HCG is what on average will restore the baseline testicular activity of men who have repressed HPTAs from high TRT doses of testosterone. So that might be a good bet.

Part of the health of the testes is determined by DHT levels. Until you get more T, you do not get more DHT. So that is a restraint that could in some cases like this hold back the changes and results. When a guy on TRT only gets put on HCG, the results can be quick. But the guy on TRT has also had his DHT levels restored as well. In your case, you are starting with low TRT and DHT.

If you provoke the testes with HCG and get a good or definite response, then one might need to consider that the pituitary has been damaged by a blow to the head [in the last few years] or from some other process.

 

[biker340]

I believe KSman hit it on the head,, he was thinking that Raising the LH and FSH with clomid would also in turn raise the testosterone levels. but it didn't..

I am going to see the Urologist on Sunday. he said at the last appointment that I would start HCG if I did not respond the Clomid.. He better not tell me to give the Clomid another 4weeks.:sad:

 

[JanSz]

Well I just got my blood test results for being on Clomid for 4 weeks at 50mg/d

Total test 95 (250-1100)
Free test 23.8 (46-224)
Bio test 51.0 (110-575)
SHBG 10 (8-46)

Doc did not want to do a LH and FSH test, so no results..

Needless to say, Clomid didn't work for me.
Time for some HCG..

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