Am I alone in feeling embarassment and even worse if I need TRT?

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    Am I alone in feeling embarassment and even worse if I need TRT?


    I'm just gonna lay this out there and see what the guys say: As the reality of my need for eventual TRT and the like sinks in my 43 year old mind can't help but feel much embarassment and no small amount of shame. There is no way I'd talk about this with anyone buy my doctor and my wife--and I talk to her only because the symptoms are kinda obvious.

    While I have no idea what could have caused my secondary hypogonadism (never took drugs, steriods or anything), I can't help but feel like a damned eunuch and less than manly. I can't stand being dependent on anything, especially male hormones. It just doesn't seem fair. Exercise, eating well and more apparently didn't do a damned thing. How am I supposed to feel like a man if I must take shots and more just to avoid seeing my balls shrink into raisins and a stiff penis a thing of the past?

    My question is thus: How do/did other guys deal with these isses, assuming I'm not the only one to have them?

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    Personally, I thank the stars above that there is even an option for TRT. I'll probably need it fairly soon having had a sordid past with steroids.

    In your case, you should keep in mind that it's not your fault nor is it a weakness of any kind that your own test production got screwed by some unknown chemical or other factor. We're all exposed to contaminants everyday and some of those, we are just now finding out, have the ability to disrupt the endocrine system in many ways.

    Manhood is defined by the actions you take in this life..not by how well your junk functions.
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    Well said, Dr John. Thanks. Do you think these issues are on the rise?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    I would not recommend embarrassment as suffering asthma, either. Unless, of ocurse, one knew of the disease, and refused to treat it.
    On an intellectual basis I agree. Emotionally, however, I still have trouble and feel a substantial lack of honor and dignity, but I am working on it, hence my presence here. I am most grateful for the help and contributions of people here like yourself. Helps in getting rid of the "why couldn't I have gotten something more manly like brain cancer?" thoughts.

    Curious, though, about the apparent rise in testosterone and male issues. The more I research, the more I see a rising trend in male issues like global drops in T and sperm counts. Just today there is an article on msnbc.com mentioning a drop in male babies being born as well as lower T and sperm counts. Here is a link: Number of baby boys declining - Kids & Parenting - MSNBC.com

    Any thoughts as to why this may be and what we can do about it? Are we poisoning ourselves without even realizing it?
    •   
       

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    As you know anyman I am having issues as well. I am not looking forward to a lifetime of drug dependenacy either, but it is a health issue. I also work out and eat healthy. Many people depend on drugs for a healthy life, diebetics; high blood pressure, ect. Try to stay postive. Good luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    I'm just gonna lay this out there and see what the guys say: As the reality of my need for eventual TRT and the like sinks in my 43 year old mind can't help but feel much embarassment and no small amount of shame. There is no way I'd talk about this with anyone buy my doctor and my wife--and I talk to her only because the symptoms are kinda obvious.

    While I have no idea what could have caused my secondary hypogonadism (never took drugs, steriods or anything), I can't help but feel like a damned eunuch and less than manly. I can't stand being dependent on anything, especially male hormones. It just doesn't seem fair. Exercise, eating well and more apparently didn't do a damned thing. How am I supposed to feel like a man if I must take shots and more just to avoid seeing my balls shrink into raisins and a stiff penis a thing of the past?

    My question is thus: How do/did other guys deal with these isses, assuming I'm not the only one to have them?
    I felt real bad when I had to extract my first tooth.
    It was a milestone for me. I realized that from then on I will be giving up on pieces of me. Luckily I must have had my testosterone at good level, I was able to get over this quickly.
    My low testosterone was much less obvious. I had depression periods way before I had my ED. Only very recently I have given name to it. I was feeling bad, had a bad thoughts without knowing what was really bothering me. I got over it without making effort to treat my depression. I think that was my good luck. Had I went to a doctor I would still had my ED and be full of antidepressants. All I was missing was a $1.00 a day worth of Testosterone. It took about year and half or so of testosterone levels to be somewhat close to where they should be, before my depression went away. Next step is ED, that requires much more precise tuning.

    I am 67yo now. Had my share of problems. 6 surgeries one cancer. Other than that life is good.

    With out technology I be pushing daisies long time ago.
    Instead my main problem is on how to tame beautiful girls.
    Last night I had a class with this one.
    Starlight Dance Center | Welcome
    Better than daisies.
    Your choice.
    Take advantage of technology or die, either slow or fast.
    If you are an artist the choice is not clear.
    Personal misery often results in better art.
    For every day folks, like me, there is no contest, I choose happy life (as possible), and I do not care that large part of it depends on available technology.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    On an intellectual basis I agree. Emotionally, however, I still have trouble and feel a substantial lack of honor and dignity, but I am working on it, hence my presence here. I am most grateful for the help and contributions of people here like yourself. Helps in getting rid of the "why couldn't I have gotten something more manly like brain cancer?" thoughts.

    Curious, though, about the apparent rise in testosterone and male issues. The more I research, the more I see a rising trend in male issues like global drops in T and sperm counts. Just today there is an article on msnbc.com mentioning a drop in male babies being born as well as lower T and sperm counts. Here is a link: Number of baby boys declining - Kids & Parenting - MSNBC.com

    Any thoughts as to why this may be and what we can do about it? Are we poisoning ourselves without even realizing it?

    Yes, we are poisoning ourselves. Its pretty evident when you educate yourself, turn off the TV and really tune in to whats going on in the world.

    Diet is a big factor. Maybe one of the biggest factors. Wether you believe that we were created in Gods image or have evolved from a simple species, or a combination of the two - the simple and undeniable fact is that we are primarily a carnivorous species designed to eat a diet high in animal protein with some fruit and veggies mixed in. I do believe that the development of agriculture that eventually led to the processed, carb heavy diet that the average american consumes today to be our downfall. I will argue this all day with anyone who thinks we can handle a carb based diet.

    Throw in the xenoestrogens and pollution in the mix, our lack of overall daily energy exposure and presto - the average american of today, a pathetic site to see compared to your typical man of a few hundred years ago. Your average joe of today pales in comparision.
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Yes, we are poisoning ourselves. Its pretty evident when you educate yourself, turn off the TV and really tune in to whats going on in the world.

    Diet is a big factor. Maybe one of the biggest factors. Wether you believe that we were created in Gods image or have evolved from a simple species, or a combination of the two - the simple and undeniable fact is that we are primarily a carnivorous species designed to eat a diet high in animal protein with some fruit and veggies mixed in. I do believe that the development of agriculture that eventually led to the processed, carb heavy diet that the average american consumes today to be our downfall. I will argue this all day with anyone who thinks we can handle a carb based diet.

    Throw in the xenoestrogens and pollution in the mix, our lack of overall daily energy exposure and presto - the average american of today, a pathetic site to see compared to your typical man of a few hundred years ago. Your average joe of today pales in comparision.
    well said
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    Thats an interesting thought.........

    What did the average man of 150 or 200 years ago look like?

    I know life expenctcy is increasing...but from the looks of the old people in my building, quality of life is lagging at best.
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    I agree. People are living longer but not really living in many cases. Many just seem bent on taking up space.

    I am big on the concept of comparing how our early ancestors lived versus how we are living now. IMO, we've enslaved ourselves to the luxury of convenience and we are paying a steep price. So is the planet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    I'm just gonna lay this out there and see what the guys say: As the reality of my need for eventual TRT and the like sinks in my 43 year old mind can't help but feel much embarassment and no small amount of shame. There is no way I'd talk about this with anyone buy my doctor and my wife--and I talk to her only because the symptoms are kinda obvious.

    While I have no idea what could have caused my secondary hypogonadism (never took drugs, steriods or anything), I can't help but feel like a damned eunuch and less than manly. I can't stand being dependent on anything, especially male hormones. It just doesn't seem fair. Exercise, eating well and more apparently didn't do a damned thing. How am I supposed to feel like a man if I must take shots and more just to avoid seeing my balls shrink into raisins and a stiff penis a thing of the past?

    My question is thus: How do/did other guys deal with these isses, assuming I'm not the only one to have them?

    Anytime our bodies fail us it's a hard blow to our self esteem. I have to agree with the others that this is in some ways no different than cancer or heart disease in that it's a problem that needs to be treated and thankfully can be treated.

    With that said if you feel like less of a person because this wierd problem we all share here, you should consider talking to a professional counselor of some sort.

    I suffer from hypogonadism, Depression and Fatigue issues. I personally don't feel like less of a man because my balls don't work. I discuss it openly with whomever shows an interest in talking about it. I kinda feel an obligation to get the word out that hypogonadism is a real problem and it can be treated.

    The depression is a different story. I talk about it, but I do feel a sense of personal failure in this regard. I feel like since the problem is related to how I think, I should be somehow able to control it. My shrink feels differently. Hopefully someday I will be able to come to terms with my feelings on this issue as well.

    Hang in there. Get help and do all you can to try to get better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    I'm just gonna lay this out there and see what the guys say: As the reality of my need for eventual TRT and the like sinks in my 43 year old mind can't help but feel much embarassment and no small amount of shame. There is no way I'd talk about this with anyone buy my doctor and my wife--and I talk to her only because the symptoms are kinda obvious.

    While I have no idea what could have caused my secondary hypogonadism (never took drugs, steriods or anything), I can't help but feel like a damned eunuch and less than manly. I can't stand being dependent on anything, especially male hormones. It just doesn't seem fair. Exercise, eating well and more apparently didn't do a damned thing. How am I supposed to feel like a man if I must take shots and more just to avoid seeing my balls shrink into raisins and a stiff penis a thing of the past?

    My question is thus: How do/did other guys deal with these isses, assuming I'm not the only one to have them?
    Read this article. You're not alone. Testosterone levels have fallen in American men over the past 2 decades

    Most men need it and don't even know.
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    I dont have any problems with taking testosterone. The only problem I have at the moment is depression because its not working yet. I can understand not feeling like a man when its not working, because all the things that make you a man are not balanced. Kind of like when guys get emotional if their estrogen is out of control. It really changes who you are.

    But really, I am thankfull that their is the option of TRT and I think if you do feel less of a man simply because you are relying on a medication, then the issue would be that you are insecure about yourself. I think relying on the medication is somthing you would learn to adapt to anyway, especially once you start seeing results and it would become a non-issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    I agree. People are living longer but not really living in many cases. Many just seem bent on taking up space.

    I am big on the concept of comparing how our early ancestors lived versus how we are living now. IMO, we've enslaved ourselves to the luxury of convenience and we are paying a steep price. So is the planet.
    I am a slave of testosterone, not enough, and estrogene, too much.
    I agree it is luxury to being able to do the required adjustments.
    I hope nobody gets the idea of slapping luxury tax on my testosterone and AI bill.
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    anyman:
    You and your body are not the same. You are not your body. Your body is not you. Your body is a place where you live. The quality of your life is very much influnces by the condition of your body, so it is wise to do everything possable to take care of your body. Some of us were born with better bodies than others, but that becomes the challange to make the best of what we have. Technology has made it possable for us to improve our bodies/health, we would be fools not to take advantage of it. When you see it like this, then there will be no shame in doing everything possable to keep your body functioning the way it should, and we will enjoy being alive.
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    I feel the same way....not to mention 3 of my buddies had accidents last year and got their wifes preggers and I found out not to long ago my count is so low there is almost zero chance of it happening without drastic measures. Plus the fertility urologist just removed me from the test shots and honestly don't what to do.
    If I could actually articulate any better I would post more, but I feel your pain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfish1966 View Post
    I feel the same way....not to mention 3 of my buddies had accidents last year and got their wifes preggers and I found out not to long ago my count is so low there is almost zero chance of it happening without drastic measures. Plus the fertility urologist just removed me from the test shots and honestly don't what to do.
    If I could actually articulate any better I would post more, but I feel your pain.
    What is your test level.
    Did he give you HCG and HMG before he have given up?
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    I don't want to hijack this thred but, test was 286 he (original urologist) measured everything but E2. So I got test cyp 200mg every two weeks, i felt like crap after 8 days so I went to once a week....The new urologist (fertility specialist) didn't even look at my blood work and said no more test and won't refill it. Afer 6 weeks off of test he wants a full panel including e2 testing and said we will probably start with HCG.
    I know, and my wife knows without a doubt that test made a
    %100 diffenerence. Hell I mowed the lawn for the first time since I got married. I do want to have kids but what good will being fertile be if I can't get it up.....The specialist my wife is going to consults with mine which is the only reason I go to this guy. She said she is going to ask about it with her doc since he is an endo.

    6 effing weeks of feeling like this....WTF
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfish1966 View Post
    I don't want to hijack this thred but, test was 286 he (original urologist) measured everything but E2. So I got test cyp 200mg every two weeks, i felt like crap after 8 days so I went to once a week....The new urologist (fertility specialist) didn't even look at my blood work and said no more test and won't refill it. Afer 6 weeks off of test he wants a full panel including e2 testing and said we will probably start with HCG.
    I know, and my wife knows without a doubt that test made a
    %100 diffenerence. Hell I mowed the lawn for the first time since I got married. I do want to have kids but what good will being fertile be if I can't get it up.....The specialist my wife is going to consults with mine which is the only reason I go to this guy. She said she is going to ask about it with her doc since he is an endo.

    6 effing weeks of feeling like this....WTF
    Before you give up on fertility, try this:
    Go to Dr John, get his TRT, after you good and steady, get HMG for couple of months. May take over a year time.

    Or find some doctor who will give you all scripts that you will ask for, then get my long list for blood test, post results here.

    With help of others we will make you a baby, I mean we will make you fertile.

    -------------------
    Last edited by Dr. John; 04-22-2007 at 02:03 PM.
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    I really do feel for these guys on here with doctors that are not innovative and forward looking. I have read countless ohter posts here and it's amazing how long some guys struggle to get this under controll...good to have some support out there. Especially those of us who cannot afford to see doc like Dr. chisler.
    Jansz, thanks for the reply.

    P.S. could you explain what hmg is?
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    I really do feel for these guys on here with doctors that are not innovative and forward looking. I have read countless ohter posts here and it's amazing how long some guys struggle to get this under controll...good to have some support out there. Especially those of us who cannot afford to see doc like Dr. chisler.
    Jansz, thanks for the reply.

    P.S. could you explain what hmg is?
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    Double post. sorry.
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    I very much appreciate all the comments and input here (m)


    I pride myself in being self reliant and free of dependencies. In the end, I rely on myself to get things done. This may be a bit extreme, but much of my reluctance to start TRT arises from the fact that once started it does not end. What if some sort of disaster or other shortage happened that interupted supplies? Not a pleasant thought to contemplate.

    Perhaps it's my old fashioned male pride, but I cannot shake a sense of shame and dishonor. Intellectually I realize there is no foundation for this line of thinking, but I cannot help what pops into my head. The input and comments of people here have helped quite a bit and made me feel not so much of an oddball. I go to the gym and see guys obviously not dealing with this and wonder "why me?" Maybe I should just go the full steroid route and be 500lbs of solid muscle! Just kidding, of course.

    Again, thanks to all for your help, input and more. Makes a really crappy situation easier to deal with, not to mention more informed. Coming here has taught me infinitely more than I learned at my now former Dr's office.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfish1966 View Post
    I really do feel for these guys on here with doctors that are not innovative and forward looking. I have read countless ohter posts here and it's amazing how long some guys struggle to get this under controll...good to have some support out there. Especially those of us who cannot afford to see doc like Dr. chisler.
    Jansz, thanks for the reply.

    P.S. could you explain what hmg is?
    PharmaCare - Fertility Clinical Resource | Infertility Medication: Brand vs. Generic1-00

    In one of the links I posted in previous message you can read the following:
    Infertility Medication
    Brand vs. Generic


    What do FSH, HCG and HMG stand for?

    FSH, HCG, and HMG are abbreviations for three different medications used to treat infertility. The following table summarizes generic and brand names that correspond to each abbreviation:

    Abbreviation Generic Name Brand Name
    FSH Follicle Stimulating Hormone
    Gonal-F®, Follistim®, Fertinex®

    HCG Human Chorionic Gonadotropin
    Pregnyl®, Profasi®, Novarel®

    HMG Human Menopausal Gonadotropins
    Humegon®, Pergonal®, Repronex®


    FSH stands for follicle stimulating hormone, which is contained in Gonal-F®, Follistim®, and Fertinex®. These medications are commonly used in combination with HCG in assisted reproductive technologies (ART). The function of FSH is to stimulate the growth of follicles in the ovaries.

    Pregnyl®, Profasi®, and Novarel® all contain HCG or human chorionic gonadotropin. HCG is a hormone used to induce ovulation in women who are unable to ovulate on their own. It works by helping to release the egg from the follicle, usually following administration of FSH.

    HMG stands for human menopausal gonadotropins, which helps to stimulate follicular growth and maturation. Humegon®, Pergonal®, and Repronex® contain HMG and are typically used in combination with HCG to induce ovulation. These medications are also prescribed for men who have insufficient quantity or quality of sperm due to hormonal abnormalities.



    Why are there several different brand name medications corresponding to each generic name?
    The medications that contain FSH differ by the way they are manufactured. Gonal-F® and Follistim® are both FSH produced through a complex bio-technical engineering process.

    Gonal-F® and Follistim® differ from each other only slightly in regards to their chemical structure, but have the same action in the body. Fertinex®, on the other hand, is highly purified FSH collected from the urine of postmenopausal women.

    The medications that contain either HCG or HMG are all made from identical active ingredients. For example, Pergonal®, released by Serono in 1985, was the first HMG product to be approved in the United States. After the patent expired for Serono to be the sole manufacturer of Pergonal®, Organon Inc. released Humegon® in 1994, and Ferring Labs. released Repronex® in 1997. Although medications containing HCG and HMG have brand names assigned by their manufacturers, they are still generic drugs. The manufacturers gave these drugs "brand names" as a way to differentiate their products from the other generic products. Therefore, all of the medications that contain HCG and all those that contain HMG are identical with the only difference being the manufacturer that produces that medication and the name assigned to their product.



    Are generics less effective than brand name drugs since they are less expensive?

    No, generic medications are made from the identical active ingredients as the corresponding brand medication. To further understand the equivalence of brand and generic medications, it is important to get an understanding of the process by which medications are approved.

    For a new drug to be approved for marketing in the United States, the manufacturer must submit a new drug application (NDA) to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The NDA contains information regarding clinical tests that demonstrate the safety and effectiveness of a given drug in humans. These clinical trials performed with the new drugs can take a number of years.

    In general, it takes millions of dollars for drug manufacturers to discover, research and develop a new drug. In order to recover from this financial investment, the federal government awards the manufacturer a 17-year patent for exclusive research and development (R&D) of the new drug. The patent prohibits other pharmaceutical companies from developing the same drug during that time frame. The purpose of this process is to encourage pharmaceutical manufacturers to continue R&D of new drugs.

    Although 17 years is a long time, some drugs undergo many years of research and development before FDA approval. In 1984, the Drug Price Competition and Patent Term Restoration Act extended the manufactures exclusive marketing of the drugs for up to an additional 5 years, further encouraging new drug development by drug companies.

    When the manufacturer’s patent expires, other drug manufacturers are then permitted to develop similar products that contain the identical active ingredients as the approved brand name drug. These are typically referred to as generic drugs. In order for generic forms of the brand name drug to be approved, they must meet the FDA’s stringent standards for equivalence (i.e., active ingredients, strength, chemical properties, ect.). When all of the standards of equivalence between the generic and the brand name drug are met, the FDA then approves the proposed generic drug for marketing in the United States.

    Because the generic manufacturers did not have to invest heavily into R&D of a drug, they are able to offer their products at a reduced cost to the consumer. This explains why generics are much less expensive than their brand counterparts.
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    Anyman, imagine being in your early 20s and suffering symptoms of low T! I feel like my endocrine system has been completely shut down before life really got started. The shrinkage and ED is horrifying not to mention the weird orgasms when you can beat out an erection and added general feelings of inadequacy and depression.

    I keep reading this is very treatable but in what way, taking T shots for the rest of your life? Not to mention the complications involved with applying external testosterone with your bodys natural rythym etc

    Whatever happened to walking round hung like a horse and feeling hormones constantly pulsating through your ****? If only..
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    I pride myself in being self reliant and free of dependencies. In the end, I rely on myself to get things done. This may be a bit extreme, but much of my reluctance to start TRT arises from the fact that once started it does not end. What if some sort of disaster or other shortage happened that interupted supplies? Not a pleasant thought to contemplate.

    Perhaps it's my old fashioned male pride, but I cannot shake a sense of shame and dishonor. Intellectually I realize there is no foundation for this line of thinking, but I cannot help what pops into my head. The input and comments of people here have helped quite a bit and made me feel not so much of an oddball. I go to the gym and see guys obviously not dealing with this and wonder "why me?" Maybe I should just go the full steroid route and be 500lbs of solid muscle! Just kidding, of course.

    Again, thanks to all for your help, input and more. Makes a really crappy situation easier to deal with, not to mention more informed. Coming here has taught me infinitely more than I learned at my now former Dr's office.

    I do not fear it. Granted, my issues(High estradoil, low GH) aren't as serious as yours, but all this is small potatoes.

    I would suggest you stop by the burn ward, or the childrens cancer ward at your local hospital to help put things in proper prospective. I promise you, your condition won't seem so serious any more. Life is all about challenges and obstacles and overcoming them. Some we can do on our own, some we need help with. Keep up the good fight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjones84 View Post
    Anyman, imagine being in your early 20s and suffering symptoms of low T! I feel like my endocrine system has been completely shut down before life really got started. The shrinkage and ED is horrifying not to mention the weird orgasms when you can beat out an erection and added general feelings of inadequacy and depression.

    I keep reading this is very treatable but in what way, taking T shots for the rest of your life? Not to mention the complications involved with applying external testosterone with your bodys natural rythym etc

    Whatever happened to walking round hung like a horse and feeling hormones constantly pulsating through your ****? If only..

    I'm 51 years old and a couple of years ago I started to notice that my libido was really dropping. Being too embarrassed to go see a doctor about it I order testosterone saliva testing off the internet. To my amazement the lab report indicated that my testosterone was very high for a man my age. I put the reports away and forgot about it. Eight months later still feeling aweful I ordered another saliva test from another lab. This test also came back with a very high testosterone rating . I didn't know what was wrong with me but I was going through a divorce and was very depressed . Finally I went to see my doctor and asked for a blood serum testosterone evaluation. To my surprise my testosterone levels came back very low at 285. I'm not sure why the saliva testing is so wrong but my doctor put me on Testim. I use one tube per day and it helps. I don't feel like my old self but do feel better than before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    I pride myself in being self reliant and free of dependencies. In the end, I rely on myself to get things done. This may be a bit extreme, but much of my reluctance to start TRT arises from the fact that once started it does not end. What if some sort of disaster or other shortage happened that interupted supplies? Not a pleasant thought to contemplate.

    Perhaps it's my old fashioned male pride, but I cannot shake a sense of shame and dishonor. Intellectually I realize there is no foundation for this line of thinking, but I cannot help what pops into my head. The input and comments of people here have helped quite a bit and made me feel not so much of an oddball. I go to the gym and see guys obviously not dealing with this and wonder "why me?" Maybe I should just go the full steroid route and be 500lbs of solid muscle! Just kidding, of course.

    Again, thanks to all for your help, input and more. Makes a really crappy situation easier to deal with, not to mention more informed. Coming here has taught me infinitely more than I learned at my now former Dr's office.
    I fully understand how you feel. But the alternative may eventually become much worse. I went almost 10 years dealing with this crap. I ceased having morning erections so long ago I can't remember the last one. And as for sex? Forget it. The wife and I went 8 months without even touching each other. And I mean not even a kiss. Finally I had enough and am seeking help.

    Not being able to make love to your wife and have an orgasm with her. Now THAT will make one feel like a less of a man. I'll do whatever it takes to return to a normal sex life. I owe it to myself and more importantly, I owe it to my wife.
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    You are correct, SMH. Can't argue with logic, although my pride sure tries! (m)


    I knew I was going out on something of a limb by posting what I did, but I figured I'd just lay it out there and see if I am alone in these thoughts. Hearing the responses has helped quite a bit.

    I guess what really troubles me is "WHY?". Why does this happen? Why is it happening more? Why me, you and a few others instead of those perhaps more deserving of ED, like perverts and the like? What we are doing to ourselves?

    I've said it before: I've learned much here--and not just about medicine.
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    Stress also has a lot to do with it. I have complete confidence in my bodies ability to cure itself. There is a theory about self sabotage that states that once your mind gets in a comfort zone, even if that zone is unhealthy, it is very difficult to break out of.

    Once you convince yourself you are sick, your body will want to stay sick. It is like those people who win the lottery and then blow it all. Their psychology believes that they do not deserve that lifestyle so waste it.

    Your body is always seeking equilibrium in its cycles...even if for some reason that is an unhealthy equilibrium for whatever reason.

    You cant believe you are sick. I have gotten myself into the normal range for most tests and just tell myself that my numbers are normal and I am healthy.

    Once I convince my brain of that...this nightmare will end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post

    I guess what really troubles me is "WHY?". Why does this happen? Why is it happening more? Why me, you and a few others instead of those perhaps more deserving of ED, like perverts and the like? What we are doing to ourselves?

    I've said it before: I've learned much here--and not just about medicine.
    Im kinda glad you bought this up. I wonder this very same thing ALL the time - Why did this happen to ME and not the guy next door? Ive often wondered if Ive done somthing to deserve it. I certainly beleive there is a God and I wonder if its about a higher power setting me straight on somthing. Bit deep yea, but thats what I honestly think sometimes.

    Most people say its just the way the dice rolled, but Im not so sure. It feels very personal and a lot to me like there is somthing to be learnt from the whole experience. Thats just my take on it and in no way am I implying that anyone else here deserves to be where they are, its just what I get from my own situation.....and I am STILL in the process of trying to figure it out.

    For me, im just trying to be a really good boy....."just in case".......
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    Not being able to make love to your wife and have an orgasm with her. Now THAT will make one feel like a less of a man. I'll do whatever it takes to return to a normal sex life. I owe it to myself and more importantly, I owe it to my wife.[/QUOTE]

    I agree. It would me much easier for me to deal with this if I was single. Been married nine years and always had a healthy sex life. Hell, I actually use to joke with married friends who complain about there wives never giving them any sex. I was the 3 to 4 a week guy. Now I am luckly if I get it going once or twice a month. Wife said she understands and is willing to wait. I believe her but the I am man I must please my wife attittude keeps putting pressure on me to perform which leads to ED 9 out of 10 times. If taking drugs gets me back to at least once a week I will be none to happy to keep taking them. Good luck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinn View Post
    Stress also has a lot to do with it. I have complete confidence in my bodies ability to cure itself. There is a theory about self sabotage that states that once your mind gets in a comfort zone, even if that zone is unhealthy, it is very difficult to break out of.

    Once you convince yourself you are sick, your body will want to stay sick. It is like those people who win the lottery and then blow it all. Their psychology believes that they do not deserve that lifestyle so waste it.

    Your body is always seeking equilibrium in its cycles...even if for some reason that is an unhealthy equilibrium for whatever reason.

    You cant believe you are sick. I have gotten myself into the normal range for most tests and just tell myself that my numbers are normal and I am healthy.

    Once I convince my brain of that...this nightmare will end.
    The mind is a very powerful thing. Last night I was not even planning on having sex and still had anxiety attacks. I know I can get an erection, I know I find my wife sexy, but I can not seem to get the mind to understand that.
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    HMG Human Menopausal Gonadotropins, cool thanks for the info, I had a hard time finding info under just hmg...From what I have read that and hcg look pretty good.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    PharmaCare - Fertility Clinical Resource | Infertility Medication: Brand vs. Generic1-00

    In one of the links I posted in previous message you can read the following:
    Infertility Medication
    Brand vs. Generic


    What do FSH, HCG and HMG stand for?

    FSH, HCG, and HMG are abbreviations for three different medications used to treat infertility. The following table summarizes generic and brand names that correspond to each abbreviation:

    Abbreviation Generic Name Brand Name
    FSH Follicle Stimulating Hormone
    Gonal-F®, Follistim®, Fertinex®

    HCG Human Chorionic Gonadotropin
    Pregnyl®, Profasi®, Novarel®

    HMG Human Menopausal Gonadotropins
    Humegon®, Pergonal®, Repronex®


    FSH stands for follicle stimulating hormone, which is contained in Gonal-F®, Follistim®, and Fertinex®. These medications are commonly used in combination with HCG in assisted reproductive technologies (ART). The function of FSH is to stimulate the growth of follicles in the ovaries.

    Pregnyl®, Profasi®, and Novarel® all contain HCG or human chorionic gonadotropin. HCG is a hormone used to induce ovulation in women who are unable to ovulate on their own. It works by helping to release the egg from the follicle, usually following administration of FSH.

    HMG stands for human menopausal gonadotropins, which helps to stimulate follicular growth and maturation. Humegon®, Pergonal®, and Repronex® contain HMG and are typically used in combination with HCG to induce ovulation. These medications are also prescribed for men who have insufficient quantity or quality of sperm due to hormonal abnormalities.



    Why are there several different brand name medications corresponding to each generic name?
    The medications that contain FSH differ by the way they are manufactured. Gonal-F® and Follistim® are both FSH produced through a complex bio-technical engineering process.

    Gonal-F® and Follistim® differ from each other only slightly in regards to their chemical structure, but have the same action in the body. Fertinex®, on the other hand, is highly purified FSH collected from the urine of postmenopausal women.

    The medications that contain either HCG or HMG are all made from identical active ingredients. For example, Pergonal®, released by Serono in 1985, was the first HMG product to be approved in the United States. After the patent expired for Serono to be the sole manufacturer of Pergonal®, Organon Inc. released Humegon® in 1994, and Ferring Labs. released Repronex® in 1997. Although medications containing HCG and HMG have brand names assigned by their manufacturers, they are still generic drugs. The manufacturers gave these drugs "brand names" as a way to differentiate their products from the other generic products. Therefore, all of the medications that contain HCG and all those that contain HMG are identical with the only difference being the manufacturer that produces that medication and the name assigned to their product.



    Are generics less effective than brand name drugs since they are less expensive?

    No, generic medications are made from the identical active ingredients as the corresponding brand medication. To further understand the equivalence of brand and generic medications, it is important to get an understanding of the process by which medications are approved.

    For a new drug to be approved for marketing in the United States, the manufacturer must submit a new drug application (NDA) to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The NDA contains information regarding clinical tests that demonstrate the safety and effectiveness of a given drug in humans. These clinical trials performed with the new drugs can take a number of years.

    In general, it takes millions of dollars for drug manufacturers to discover, research and develop a new drug. In order to recover from this financial investment, the federal government awards the manufacturer a 17-year patent for exclusive research and development (R&D) of the new drug. The patent prohibits other pharmaceutical companies from developing the same drug during that time frame. The purpose of this process is to encourage pharmaceutical manufacturers to continue R&D of new drugs.

    Although 17 years is a long time, some drugs undergo many years of research and development before FDA approval. In 1984, the Drug Price Competition and Patent Term Restoration Act extended the manufactures exclusive marketing of the drugs for up to an additional 5 years, further encouraging new drug development by drug companies.

    When the manufacturer’s patent expires, other drug manufacturers are then permitted to develop similar products that contain the identical active ingredients as the approved brand name drug. These are typically referred to as generic drugs. In order for generic forms of the brand name drug to be approved, they must meet the FDA’s stringent standards for equivalence (i.e., active ingredients, strength, chemical properties, ect.). When all of the standards of equivalence between the generic and the brand name drug are met, the FDA then approves the proposed generic drug for marketing in the United States.

    Because the generic manufacturers did not have to invest heavily into R&D of a drug, they are able to offer their products at a reduced cost to the consumer. This explains why generics are much less expensive than their brand counterparts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by volusia40 View Post
    I'm 51 years old and a couple of years ago I started to notice that my libido was really dropping. Being too embarrassed to go see a doctor about it I order testosterone saliva testing off the internet. To my amazement the lab report indicated that my testosterone was very high for a man my age. I put the reports away and forgot about it. Eight months later still feeling aweful I ordered another saliva test from another lab. This test also came back with a very high testosterone rating . I didn't know what was wrong with me but I was going through a divorce and was very depressed . Finally I went to see my doctor and asked for a blood serum testosterone evaluation. To my surprise my testosterone levels came back very low at 285. I'm not sure why the saliva testing is so wrong but my doctor put me on Testim. I use one tube per day and it helps. I don't feel like my old self but do feel better than before.
    Good that it works.
    Usually with use of external T estrogens rise and need to be addressed.
    Be proactive, save your self possible frustration.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SufferingEd View Post
    The mind is a very powerful thing. Last night I was not even planning on having sex and still had anxiety attacks. I know I can get an erection, I know I find my wife sexy, but I can not seem to get the mind to understand that.
    Proper T/E balance is conducive to emotional stability.
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    I have recently learned about that JanSz. I always read T should be in upper 1/4 and E2 in lower 1/4. I never new that if the ratio was out of wack it could mess you up. I have heard it should be 30. If E2 is 25 then Total T is 750, but again it would depend on the individual.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SufferingEd View Post
    I have recently learned about that JanSz. I always read T should be in upper 1/4 and E2 in lower 1/4. I never new that if the ratio was out of wack it could mess you up. I have heard it should be 30. If E2 is 25 then Total T is 750, but again it would depend on the individual.
    In reality you do not worry about TotalT.
    The money is in BioAvailableT
    Read some of my thoughts here:
    MESO-Rx - View Single Post - Attention all those on Sub-q injections
    read on estrogen management by Dr John (SWALE)
    he does not support Flax anymore.
    MESO-Rx - View Single Post - Attention all those on Sub-q injections
    some posts on this thread I found educational
    Last edited by Dr. John; 04-23-2007 at 02:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SufferingEd View Post
    I agree. It would me much easier for me to deal with this if I was single. Been married nine years and always had a healthy sex life. Hell, I actually use to joke with married friends who complain about there wives never giving them any sex. I was the 3 to 4 a week guy. Now I am luckly if I get it going once or twice a month. Wife said she understands and is willing to wait. I believe her but the I am man I must please my wife attittude keeps putting pressure on me to perform which leads to ED 9 out of 10 times. If taking drugs gets me back to at least once a week I will be none to happy to keep taking them. Good luck!
    I would love to be able to have successful sex with my wife once a month!

    On a very rare occasion, I get an excellent erection so the wife takes advantage of it, even at Wal-Mart! J/K But it doesn't last very long and I can't finish. Sooo, we just keep on trying.
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