Dr. John Please Help! AAS Induced Issues...
- 04-12-2007, 03:37 PM
Dr. John Please Help! AAS Induced Issues...
I know this is somewhat longwinded but here goes….I am 29 years old, 185 lbs, 12%BF. I have done 4 steroid cycles in the past whereby the last one ending in 2004. Since that time my libido has been poor while suffering with ED periodically. I attribute this specifically to my 2nd cycle in 2002 which was a Deca cycle for 10 weeks. A proper HCG/Clomid PCt was done but still 8 weeks after my last shot my Total Test level was 50 ng/dl. Eventually though it returned to 500ng/dl. At this time though my libido was still not back to normal.
I believe my current issues started with my next bonehead decision. I decided to hop back on a test cycle only 6 weeks later and thus I believe that my HPTA was never able to fully recover. Fast forward to 2004 when all cycles have ceased. From 2004 right up to recently I have had numerous blood tests done trying to pinpoint my issues. Through this time my total test hovered around 480-580 ng/dl. However, my Bio-Available test has been stuck at the bottom of the normal range (ranging from 2.8-6 nmol/l in a range of 6-22. E2 had been tested throughout this time as well and it has always been at healthy levels ranging from 50-140pmol/l (range is<200). SHBG levels have been consistent at around 45nmol/l range is 6-65.
The one hormone that did stand out was prolactin. Mine tested out consistently high-normal around 19-20ug/l where the range is <21. At this time I believed for some reason the high normal reading of Prolactin was affecting my SHBG and hence affecting my low Bio-T output. I convinced my doc (who is an internist) to put me on Dostinex and interestingly enough, my Bio-T jumped from around 6 to 10 nmol/l in a range of 6-22. Libido improved somewhat but certainly not to where it was pre-Deca. I have been running the dostinex ever since with a “mediocre” libido. I should also mention that throughout 2004-2006 I ran 2 extra HCG/Nolva/Clomid Protocol in an attempt to "shock" system to produce more test. I have also had an MRI ruling out any pituitary issues (which I do not have). Aside from the bump in Bio-T achieved from the dostinex, once I was able to bump it up a few more notches running some Proviron. I was able to get 12.0nmol/l (range 6-22).
My case seems quite unique as I do not have Primary Hypogonadism (total test is good) nor do I have Secondary (LH levels are also ok ranging from 2.0-4.8, range is <12). So basically my situation can be summed up in that somehow, somewhere, something is causing my body to increase SHBG absorption of my total test, leaving me with a low Bio-T. My albumin has also been tested and came back at 46 g/l (range is 35-50). The only other anomaly has been that my DHEAS has consistently tested low ranging from 1.7-3.1 umol/L (range is 2-16). Just for fun I did supplement with 100mg of DHEA and was able to get the level boosted to the mid range. However, this increase had no affect on my low Bio-Available test readings or on libido. Here in Canada they cannot test DHT. Unfortunately I have no blood testing pre-AAS pertaining to testosterone levels. It is possible that maybe I used to have a higher total test and my current “lower” total test is why my Bio-T is lower. I have been looking into possibly running another PCT this time using HCG in combination of HMG. However, I have yet to find a doc that has any experience and knowledge on this subject.
At any rate I am at the point where if I cannot rectify my low libido/low Bio-T issue, I’d rather be on a proper HRT instead of taking dostinex for the rest of my life (which as mentioned above has a mediocre effect on libido). However, if there was something I could do to restore my HPTA to what it issued to be, I would certainly give it a try. If Dr. John or anyone else has some possible explanation of my situation and/or has any other useful advice to suggest I would be ever so grateful. Thanks in advance.
- 04-12-2007, 08:23 PM
My situation seems very similar to yours. I have taken several cycles including Deca and Tren. My SHBG is also on the high side and my Bioavail T is low, while having a decent total t level. However my e2 is low. Have you thought about going to see Dr. John. I searched the internet for months- hours on end- trying to find the answer. After finding him on this site and reading recommendations about him on some other sites, I knew it was the right choice. Don't waste your time/money seeing docs who don"t know what to do
- 04-12-2007, 11:24 PM
EDITED BY DR. CRISLER: We're not here to offer free advertising. And I do not recommend ZRT Labs.
Last edited by Dr. John; 04-15-2007 at 11:38 AM.
04-13-2007, 12:28 AM
04-13-2007, 02:43 AM
Mod edit: Please no linking to these types of logs/reviews.
Last edited by Dr. John; 04-15-2007 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Dr. Crisler: Ya, what he said.
04-13-2007, 06:46 AM
Perhaps you should continue this discussion in another forum and not on anti aging
Last edited by Jayhawkk; 04-13-2007 at 07:01 AM.
04-13-2007, 07:00 AM
THis forum is for the discussion of Anti-aging and not for directions of using Ph/AAS cycles. There are other sub forums for this purpose. Please help me in keeping Dr.D's forums clear of this. thank you.
04-13-2007, 10:13 AM
04-13-2007, 11:13 AM
04-13-2007, 11:18 AM
I have no problem with you offering him help but when that offers help outside of TRT/HRT types of things that the Doc works with it needs to be done outside this forum. That way there's no chance of anyone trying to accuse him of just being a overpaid steroid pusher, so to speak. I hope you all understand.
04-13-2007, 01:05 PM
This test is used to assess inappropriate lactation and is also useful in the detection of prolactin-secreting pituitary tumors. Elevated prolactin is associated with anovulation and amenorrhea. Prolactin can also be elevated in hypothyroidism when TSH is high. Some studies indicate that elevated prolactin may promote breast and prostate cancer growth.
LE’s Optimal Range: 2.1–5 ng/mL
Last edited by Dr. John; 04-22-2007 at 03:19 PM.
04-13-2007, 04:52 PM
04-13-2007, 05:09 PM
04-14-2007, 12:02 AM
Sorry about all the question marks.
04-14-2007, 04:34 PM
Vitex is very effective at lowring prolactin. Dose with a high potent brand at 300mg once a day.
SHBG is the problem with taking steroids. Once T is driven up extremely high(steroids) even for a brief, short time, E is driven up as well and that leads to SHBG. All the post cycle therapy in the world can restart T production, but it is useless at stopping SHBG.
Yes, AI's can probably help prevent E from getting to high and prevent the SHBG problem from becomming a problem in the first place. I do feel that once that pandoras box has been opened though(steroids), things will never quite be exactly right and the same as before. There are just way to many factors at play that need to be in balance, and trying to play chemist with ones body isn't a good idea.
Last edited by Dr. John; 04-22-2007 at 03:16 PM.
04-14-2007, 05:33 PM
04-15-2007, 02:17 AM
04-15-2007, 11:56 AM
I have heard of one of Dr Shippen's patients on the propeciahelp forum who was having issues post finasteride use, and he recovered his libido by using Danazol to lower his elevated SHBG and raise his Free T. All of his other numbers appeared to be OK from memory.
I know nothing about Danazol except that it lowers SHBG, and im not sure if taking it would cause more problems somewhere else, or if you even need it, but it worked for him.
I read in another section of this forum that DHEA has been known to lower SHBG. Did your SHBG go down at all when you got your DHEA level up?
04-15-2007, 12:53 PM
The hormones of the body all work in harmony, a true work of god. From what Ive seen steroid use seems to permanently alter this delicate balance. We still havent perfected(or probably ever will) and found a safe way to use AAS and not cause some sort of permanent change.
04-15-2007, 02:56 PM
Cultured Sertoli cell-mediated FSH stimulatory effect on Leydig cell steroidogenesis -- Benahmed et al. 248 (2): E176 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism
Leydig cell and extracellular matrix effects on Sertoli cell function: biochemical and morphologic studies -- Reventos et al. 10 (5): 359 -- Journal of Andrology
"Sertoli cells produced an increase in the steroidogenic response of Leydig cells to hCG. Pretreatment of the coculture with pFSH enhanced the steroidogenic capacity of Leydig cells and increased the number of hCG receptors."
04-15-2007, 06:49 PM
04-16-2007, 10:24 AM
04-16-2007, 11:37 AM
04-16-2007, 01:08 PM
I just do not know how to test for that or what to do with that test results.
Background: The mass action law-based calculation
methods for free testosterone (FT) and ‘‘bioavailable’’ testosterone
(BAT) – routinely used for assessing androgen
disorders – rely on the supposition that the sex hormone
binding globulin (SHBG) molecule contains one steroid
binding domain (SBD). However, recent biochemical
investigations revealed that this molecule actually comprises
two SBDs. This necessitates new equations
(Calc2) for FT and BAT calculation.
CalcV was reported to overestimate BAT by a factor of 1.5–2.2 . Moreover, CalcV was first proposed
in 1999 w8x and is, naturally, based on the biochemists’ view of the SHBG molecule in the 1990s; but
the view of this molecule has changed, step by step, in recent years
8. Vermeulen A, Verdonck L, Kaufman JM. A critical evaluation of simple methods for the
estimation of free testosterone in serum. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1999;84:3666–72.
04-23-2007, 01:39 AM
It makes me wonder how many people out there are actually lower than what they were before and dont even realize it and think they have recovered.
04-25-2007, 11:04 AM
04-25-2007, 11:41 AM
04-25-2007, 03:56 PM
Let us not forget that ANYTHING that competes with estrogen at the estrogen receptor site will block estrogenic fat deposition, and those areas that are heavy in particular include the breast and love handle area.
04-25-2007, 04:01 PM
04-26-2007, 12:17 PM
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