Looking to start HRT
- 04-04-2007, 01:41 AM
Looking to start HRT
Hello everyone. First I'd like say I'm new to this and I'll appologize in advance for a stupid question.
After ALOT of hours reading and studying low T and HRT online,
I have decided to become a new patient of Dr John's. From everything I've read he seems to be the most knowledegable and understanding Dr. in his field. I'd like to ask a question of his other patients or straight to Dr. John.
I looked through the stickies and countless posts and when the question of cost of blood tests and/or treatment comes up, it was generally answered with "it depends". I ran tests last fall (from LEF) and have come to the conclusion that I have secondary hypogonadism.
Since I don't have any health insurance, I'm wondering about how much cash should I have available before seeing him for tests and prescriptions, etc.? Do I pay for labs threough his office or does the lab bill me? I do understand every case is different. I'm just looking for a rough range of what's typical and worse case scenario. That way I'm not wasting anybody's time walking in with say a grand when I need 2-3 or 10 or whatever.
Any real world info would be greatly appreciated!
- 04-04-2007, 09:59 AM
From his web site:
OFFICE VISIT FEE - Office or Virtual $ 50.00
ANTI-AGING CONSULTATION $300.00
assume 10 consultations the first year ---$500
Medicines bought from his web site:
Anastrozole (Compounded) - Compare to Arimidex $ 2.00 PER TAB 0.25 mg Tab --3per week x 52=$312
HCG - (Novarel - Mixing needle supplied) $ 55.00 PER VIAL 10,000 iu, last 60 days---per year $335
Pregnenolone Cream 10% $ 85.00 60 mL, last 60days--per year $517
Testosterone Gel (Compounded) 5% $ 60.00 60 mL last 60 days -- $365
Thyroid (Armour)(#100) 2 grain $ 40.00 120 mg, 3grains/day-- 219/year
HGH (Somatropin) - Cold Pack S&H $25.00 $ 248.00 10.3 g / 31 iu Vial -- last 15 days?????? -- per year $6034
DHEA, DIM, TMG bought somewhere else ----- say LEF DHEA 300mg/day, DualAction 6 pills/day, TMG 1/day ---- $14.25/30days, $22.2/10days, $11.43/180days -- per year $1009
Blood test from LEF---
Hormone Panel, Male--- $224 -- 2 per year --per year $448
Male Life Extension Panel -- $224 -- 2 per year -- per year -$448
Other blood tests, other supplements, per year $2000
Travel to Dr John's office (my case from Newark NJ) $800
Total yearly cost (approx) =300+500+312+335+517+365+219+6 034+1009+448+448+2000+800=13287
Please add corrections.
Add urine test at Rhein labs $225 2/year $450
Looks little steep, but I did not added yet quite few things.
But look also at the alternative of not doing it.
Money do not buy happiness but whats wrong with renting it??
At 67 and still---
04-04-2007, 01:47 PM
You will be billed by the lab. When I went for the initial office visiting Lansing, he spent more time with me than most doctors would. He was very thorough, answered all my questions (BRING A NOTEBOOK and take good notes).
First labs (if blood) could cost close to $1000. He might have you do a 24-hour urine based lab which is only about $230. Get a credit card that does frequent flyer miles. That's how I pay for this stuff.
04-04-2007, 03:24 PM
Thanks to both of you. I should have mentioned I knew the consultation prices from Dr. John's website. I was wondering more about the blood/saliva tests and treatment costs. I think my questions were answered. I can't afford HGH, WOW!!! If I pay the lab seperate, that reduces the cash I need to have on hand dramatically. The rest of the meds seem reasonably affordable. Plus I'm only about 75 miles from Dr. John's office. Thanks again!
04-04-2007, 03:48 PM
04-04-2007, 05:05 PM
04-04-2007, 07:22 PM
Hello everyone. In searching online for info on the subject I stumbled onto this site and from what I've read so far, I think I'll find some very knowledgeable help here. This may get a bit long winded and I applogize, but I want to cover everything.
I'll start at the beginning. Through my teens and until about 19 things were great. Then around 20-21 things took a SHARP nosedive. Severe ED, less energy & stamina, less muscle mass, trouble concentrating, some gyno, poor memory, hard core depression, small flaccid size, small balls, etc. All of the things associated with low T. Only I didn't know that at the time. I'm 31 now and SICK of living with it. I've asked a couple family doctors in my late 20's and got treated like a hypochondriac nutcase. Last summer, I asked my doctor to do a T test. I never actually saw the results (didn't know at the time he was required to show me), he said I was in the "Normal" range, though he did say JUST BARELY. I then discovered Life Extension and ordered the biggest set of blod tests they offer (LabCorp). I got the results last fall and didn't really know where to go from there. I'll list the ones I think relevant and the scale range listed in patenthesis.
Thyroid 1.700 ( 0.350 - 5.500 )
PSA 0.7 ( 0.0 - 4.0 )
Testosterone 407 ( 241 - 827 )
Free Testosterone 12.4 ( 8.7 - 25.1 )
LH 5.9 ( 1.5 - 9.3 )
FSH 2.1 ( 1.4 - 18.1)
Progesterone 0.8 ( 0.3 - 1.2)
DHEA - Sulfate 178 ( 120 - 520)
Estradiol 27 ( 0 - 53 )
I also heve 30 or so other test results if any of the others are useful let me know and I'll list them. Unfortunately don't have SHBG.
I'd like to mention that I think the results of that test were skewed. I was using T-Bomb II (from GNC with Tribulus among other things) and super Mira Forte (chysin and bioperine). I think these products raised my T & LH and lowered my E2 some. My FSH is rock bottom. The problems I have weren't quite as bad while I was using those products.
I'll just go ahead and be open and honest. I don't get sleeping or morning wood. If I do, it's fairly rare and it's flying at half mast. Being able to have any kind of quality sex without Cialis is extremely rare. Over the last 10 years I've been with 3 different women and never been able to get anyone pregnant. Cialis doesn't work nearly as good as it used to, and Viagra and Levitra, while they worked great for awhile don't do anything anymore. I'm tired of ED to the point of suicide. Very, very serious. I'd also like to be able to be a father in the near future.
I am thinking about HCG. TRT I think would make certain problems worse. I am also thinking about an aromiize inhibitor like Clomid or Arimidex that I read about in other threads. What all should I expect from these products? Do you think they would fix my problems? Create any new ones? Also, my hair is starting to noticably thin out. Would hair loss be aggrivated, reduced or would there be no effect on it?
In one of the threads I read about All Things Male. I cannot open some of the info on their site as I don't have Word. They seem to come highly recommended and they are only a couple hours from me. Before I do I am looking for any advice I can find. I am planning to order more blood tests before I go there and am wondering what all to get.and where is the most economical yet reliable place to get them from?
Another BIG question is an idea of what should I expect for costs of doctor vistis and medications?
Again I appologize for the long post and multiple questions, I'm just desperate for some friendly help & advice.
Thanks to those who took the time to read this.
04-04-2007, 08:27 PM
b4554: Your total and free test levels are almost exactly where mine were when I started on TRT. Don't give up man.....go see Dr. John. Just don't schedule your appointment on 06 Jun. That is when I go see him!
04-04-2007, 08:44 PM
04-04-2007, 09:36 PM
On a side note I am also in the same boat as you on saving up before seeing Dr. John. How much money have you been figuring on to have as a reserve before seeing him?
I called his office around 2 yesterday afternoon and left a message about becoming a new patient. I haven't heard back yet so I don't know how soon I'd be able to get an appointment.
Best of luck to you bro and keep up posted! Todd
04-05-2007, 12:09 PM
04-05-2007, 12:20 PM
Dr. John does not bill your insurance for you. You must pay him his fee, get a receipt and submit your own claim to your insurance. You might need to meet an out-of-network deductible before you get reimbursed. You can also call his office and ask his assistant about this.
04-06-2007, 06:14 PM
Why dont you try to stop smoking weed? Weed lowers Testosterone! If you need to relax get some Phenibut (its works well and its legal)
04-06-2007, 06:46 PM
Weed is good for elevating your estrogen levels.
Stay off all the herbal stuff (T-Bomb, etc...) and get another blood test including E2..
04-06-2007, 06:48 PM
04-06-2007, 07:01 PM
04-06-2007, 07:16 PM
04-06-2007, 07:23 PM
Marijuana extracts possess the effects like the endocrine disrupting chemicals.Watanabe K, Motoya E, Matsuzawa N, Funahashi T, Kimura T, Matsunaga T, Arizono K, Yamamoto I.
Department of Hygienic Chemistry, Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Hokuriku University, Ho-3 Kanagawa-machi, Kanazawa 920-1181, Japan. email@example.com
The progesterone 17alpha-hydroxylase activity, which is one of the steroidogenic enzymes in rat testis microsomes, was significantly inhibited by crude marijuana extracts from Delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinolic acid (THCA)- and cannabidiolic acid (CBDA)-strains. Delta(9)-Tetrahydrocannabinol, cannabidiol and cannabinol also inhibited the enzymatic activity with relatively higher concentration (100-1000 microM). Testosterone 6beta- and 16alpha-hydroxylase activities together with androstenedione formation from testosterone in rat liver microsomes were also significantly inhibited by the crude marijuana extracts and the cannabinoids. Crude marijuana extracts (1 and 10 microg/ml) of THCA strain stimulated the proliferation of MCF-7 cells, although the purified cannabinoids (THC, CBD and CBN) did not show significant effects, such as the extract at the concentration of 0.01-1000 nM. These results indicate that there are some metabolic interactions between cannabinoid and steroid metabolism and that the constituents showing estrogen-like activity exist in marijuana.
PMID: 15588936 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
04-06-2007, 07:27 PM
Also have you ever seen any hippies that act like they have an once of Testosterone? I hate f****** Hippies!
04-06-2007, 07:50 PM
I'm now on 100mgs Test C per week. I've seen improvement, but not as much as I expected. Total test only went from 460 to 487 and free went from 12 to 17.
Before I do anything else, I'm going to go see Dr John. I need an expert as my Urologist said he doesn't have time to work with me.
04-06-2007, 07:56 PM
04-06-2007, 07:58 PM
As for the funds, I already purchased my tickets......I'm going to fly out. Prices are reasonable right now. I also wanted to get a jump on them with the price of gasoline going up again.
The initial office visit is $300, so you will need that as well. I figure another $200 for general expenses and I will be all set. My plan is to see him and discuss what tests he wants to do and the next step. I'll do each as I can afford it. The tests are easy since my insurance will cover that through my Urologist.
04-06-2007, 11:59 PM
On the weed discussion, I'm definately no hippie. I only smoke occasionally when I need to relax and get a little break from my crappy life. I've gone years without touching it and had a couple periods where I went through LARGE quantities and never noticed any difference in my symptoms either way. IMHO since weed isn't really taxable and alcohol is, the powers that be want everyone using man-made alcohol instead of an all natural product that can be grown at home. As a good way to get guys not to use it, just threaten them with shrunken balls, that'll chase off alot of them .
Hyde12, I'm not familar with Phenibut, I'll do some searching and check it out.
04-07-2007, 07:25 AM
04-07-2007, 02:32 PM
04-08-2007, 04:53 PM
TRT is only a part of overal health maintenance.
Will you work with your patient in designing his suplement regime.
Now, since you are officially associated with LEF,
I could use complete evaluation and total supplement advice and management using LEF product.
LEF starts with list of 10 most often used supplements but then what about the other supplements and other health concerns.
I currently use many of their products.
I am sure my list could be greatly improved.
I got a good help from LEF doctors and advisors,
but it was newer comprehensive evaluation.
What say you?
04-08-2007, 08:34 PM
04-09-2007, 04:24 PM
Ive been studying supplements for years. There are good and bad ones out there. One I recommend is fish oil + vit E.
Biotest makes the best fish oil on the market today. Vit E I get from Carlsons.
Next I would go with a ZMA product. Every athlete is taking these. Again, Biotest because its cheap. Zinc and magnesium, two wonderfull minerals.
I have heard some promising stuff about Resveratrol. Again, I trust Biotest.
Another great product that I love is Greens Plus. Its a blend of organic vegetables and a whole list of other substances. It has been put threw testing and is currently the only green supplemental powder that has submitted its products for mandated testing. It has past with flying colors when it comes to purity and quality. Greens Plus - Superfood rich in chlorophyll.. They also make protein powder, which I will be switching over to once my Biotest Whey is all gone.
And I love creatine. Again, Biotest.
Those above are my staples. One must be carefull not to over-antioxident themselves.
I am reading up on new stuff daily. One particular compound that has piqued my interest is selenium. Another is Carlsons vitamin A/C/E selenium combo.
I do not take multi vitamins and I do not recommend anyone to do so. They are all poorly absorbed, compete with eachother and can be dangerous. No company has put one out yet that I feel meets my expectations. A good first start would be to seperate the vitamins from the minerals and to make sure to leave calcium out as it blocks mineral absorbtion. Companies still havent figured this out yet. Oh well. We always have tomorrow right.
All this stuff/products can be googled for further info.
04-09-2007, 04:32 PM
How to save URL for individual post, such as the one you just posted.
I am able to do that for a whole thread, cumbersome.?
On the other site this can easily be accomplished, for example:
MESO-Rx - View Single Post - I am on HRT with DIM...
04-09-2007, 04:37 PM
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