Looking to start HRT

[b4554]

Hello everyone. First I'd like say I'm new to this and I'll appologize in advance for a stupid question.
After ALOT of hours reading and studying low T and HRT online,
I have decided to become a new patient of Dr John's. From everything I've read he seems to be the most knowledegable and understanding Dr. in his field. I'd like to ask a question of his other patients or straight to Dr. John.

I looked through the stickies and countless posts and when the question of cost of blood tests and/or treatment comes up, it was generally answered with "it depends". I ran tests last fall (from LEF) and have come to the conclusion that I have secondary hypogonadism.

Since I don't have any health insurance, I'm wondering about how much cash should I have available before seeing him for tests and prescriptions, etc.? Do I pay for labs threough his office or does the lab bill me? I do understand every case is different. I'm just looking for a rough range of what's typical and worse case scenario. That way I'm not wasting anybody's time walking in with say a grand when I need 2-3 or 10 or whatever.

Any real world info would be greatly appreciated!

[JanSz]

Hello everyone. First I'd like say I'm new to this and I'll appologize in advance for a stupid question.
After ALOT of hours reading and studying low T and HRT online,
I have decided to become a new patient of Dr John's. From everything I've read he seems to be the most knowledegable and understanding Dr. in his field. I'd like to ask a question of his other patients or straight to Dr. John.

I looked through the stickies and countless posts and when the question of cost of blood tests and/or treatment comes up, it was generally answered with "it depends". I ran tests last fall (from LEF) and have come to the conclusion that I have secondary hypogonadism.

Since I don't have any health insurance, I'm wondering about how much cash should I have available before seeing him for tests and prescriptions, etc.? Do I pay for labs threough his office or does the lab bill me? I do understand every case is different. I'm just looking for a rough range of what's typical and worse case scenario. That way I'm not wasting anybody's time walking in with say a grand when I need 2-3 or 10 or whatever.

Any real world info would be greatly appreciated!

I am not Dr John's patient (not yet).
From his web site:
AllThingsMale.com
OFFICE VISIT FEE - Office or Virtual $ 50.00
ANTI-AGING CONSULTATION $300.00
assume 10 consultations the first year ---$500

Medicines bought from his web site:
AllThingsMale.com
Anastrozole (Compounded) - Compare to Arimidex $ 2.00 PER TAB 0.25 mg Tab --3per week x 52=$312

HCG - (Novarel - Mixing needle supplied) $ 55.00 PER VIAL 10,000 iu, last 60 days---per year $335

Pregnenolone Cream 10% $ 85.00 60 mL, last 60days--per year $517

Testosterone Gel (Compounded) 5% $ 60.00 60 mL last 60 days -- $365

Thyroid (Armour)(#100) 2 grain $ 40.00 120 mg, 3grains/day-- 219/year

HGH (Somatropin) - Cold Pack S&H $25.00 $ 248.00 10.3 g / 31 iu Vial -- last 15 days?????? -- per year $6034

DHEA, DIM, TMG bought somewhere else ----- say LEF DHEA 300mg/day, DualAction 6 pills/day, TMG 1/day ---- $14.25/30days, $22.2/10days, $11.43/180days -- per year $1009

Blood test from LEF---
Hormone Panel, Male--- $224 -- 2 per year --per year $448
Male Life Extension Panel -- $224 -- 2 per year -- per year -$448

Other blood tests, other supplements, per year $2000
Travel to Dr John's office (my case from Newark NJ) $800

------------------
Total yearly cost (approx) =300+500+312+335+517+365+219+6 034+1009+448+448+2000+800=13287
Please add corrections.

Add urine test at Rhein labs $225 2/year $450
---------------------
Looks little steep, but I did not added yet quite few things.
But look also at the alternative of not doing it.

Money do not buy happiness but whats wrong with renting it??
At 67 and still---

[wildfox]

Hello everyone. First I'd like say I'm new to this and I'll appologize in advance for a stupid question.
After ALOT of hours reading and studying low T and HRT online,
I have decided to become a new patient of Dr John's.

Wise choice!

From everything I've read he seems to be the most knowledegable and understanding Dr. in his field. I'd like to ask a question of his other patients or straight to Dr. John.

I looked through the stickies and countless posts and when the question of cost of blood tests and/or treatment comes up, it was generally answered with "it depends". I ran tests last fall (from LEF) and have come to the conclusion that I have secondary hypogonadism.

Since I don't have any health insurance, I'm wondering about how much cash should I have available before seeing him for tests and prescriptions, etc.? Do I pay for labs threough his office or does the lab bill me? I do understand every case is different. I'm just looking for a rough range of what's typical and worse case scenario. That way I'm not wasting anybody's time walking in with say a grand when I need 2-3 or 10 or whatever.

Any real world info would be greatly appreciated!

As JanSz posted, his fees are listed on his website. Considering that I have insurance yet have to pay $45 copay for a "specialist" visit, an additional out of pocket $5 is worth it.

You will be billed by the lab. When I went for the initial office visiting Lansing, he spent more time with me than most doctors would. He was very thorough, answered all my questions (BRING A NOTEBOOK and take good notes).

First labs (if blood) could cost close to $1000. He might have you do a 24-hour urine based lab which is only about $230. Get a credit card that does frequent flyer miles. That's how I pay for this stuff.

Good luck!

[b4554]

Thanks to both of you. I should have mentioned I knew the consultation prices from Dr. John's website. I was wondering more about the blood/saliva tests and treatment costs. I think my questions were answered. I can't afford HGH, WOW!!! If I pay the lab seperate, that reduces the cash I need to have on hand dramatically. The rest of the meds seem reasonably affordable. Plus I'm only about 75 miles from Dr. John's office. Thanks again!

[wildfox]

Thanks to both of you. I should have mentioned I knew the consultation prices from Dr. John's website. I was wondering more about the blood/saliva tests and treatment costs. I think my questions were answered. I can't afford HGH, WOW!!! If I pay the lab seperate, that reduces the cash I need to have on hand dramatically. The rest of the meds seem reasonably affordable. Plus I'm only about 75 miles from Dr. John's office. Thanks again!

At least you don't have to buy a plane ticket and hotel room and rental car like some of us :-)

I don't think you'll be disappointed, but be patient too. Dr. John is good, but the therapy does not fix everything overnight.

[Hyde12]

Hello everyone. First I'd like say I'm new to this and I'll appologize in advance for a stupid question.
After ALOT of hours reading and studying low T and HRT online,
I have decided to become a new patient of Dr John's. From everything I've read he seems to be the most knowledegable and understanding Dr. in his field. I'd like to ask a question of his other patients or straight to Dr. John.

I looked through the stickies and countless posts and when the question of cost of blood tests and/or treatment comes up, it was generally answered with "it depends". I ran tests last fall (from LEF) and have come to the conclusion that I have secondary hypogonadism.

Since I don't have any health insurance, I'm wondering about how much cash should I have available before seeing him for tests and prescriptions, etc.? Do I pay for labs threough his office or does the lab bill me? I do understand every case is different. I'm just looking for a rough range of what's typical and worse case scenario. That way I'm not wasting anybody's time walking in with say a grand when I need 2-3 or 10 or whatever.

Any real world info would be greatly appreciated!

What is your age? Have you ever done any steroids? Are you a heavy drinker? Are you stressed at work or home?

[b4554]

What is your age? Have you ever done any steroids? Are you a heavy drinker? Are you stressed at work or home?

Age 31, never done steroids, rarely drink but a little weed once or twice a week, different stresses comes and goes but this problem has plagued me most of my adult life. Here is a cut and paste I posted on the forum at mesomorphosis.com a few days before I found this site. It gives all the main info. The costs question in it has pretty much been answered for me.


Hello everyone. In searching online for info on the subject I stumbled onto this site and from what I've read so far, I think I'll find some very knowledgeable help here. This may get a bit long winded and I applogize, but I want to cover everything.

I'll start at the beginning. Through my teens and until about 19 things were great. Then around 20-21 things took a SHARP nosedive. Severe ED, less energy & stamina, less muscle mass, trouble concentrating, some gyno, poor memory, hard core depression, small flaccid size, small balls, etc. All of the things associated with low T. Only I didn't know that at the time. I'm 31 now and SICK of living with it. I've asked a couple family doctors in my late 20's and got treated like a hypochondriac nutcase. Last summer, I asked my doctor to do a T test. I never actually saw the results (didn't know at the time he was required to show me), he said I was in the "Normal" range, though he did say JUST BARELY. I then discovered Life Extension and ordered the biggest set of blod tests they offer (LabCorp). I got the results last fall and didn't really know where to go from there. I'll list the ones I think relevant and the scale range listed in patenthesis.

Thyroid 1.700 ( 0.350 - 5.500 )
PSA 0.7 ( 0.0 - 4.0 )
Testosterone 407 ( 241 - 827 )
Free Testosterone 12.4 ( 8.7 - 25.1 )
LH 5.9 ( 1.5 - 9.3 )
FSH 2.1 ( 1.4 - 18.1)
Progesterone 0.8 ( 0.3 - 1.2)
DHEA - Sulfate 178 ( 120 - 520)
Estradiol 27 ( 0 - 53 )

I also heve 30 or so other test results if any of the others are useful let me know and I'll list them. Unfortunately don't have SHBG.

I'd like to mention that I think the results of that test were skewed. I was using T-Bomb II (from *** with Tribulus among other things) and super Mira Forte (chysin and bioperine). I think these products raised my T & LH and lowered my E2 some. My FSH is rock bottom. The problems I have weren't quite as bad while I was using those products.

I'll just go ahead and be open and honest. I don't get sleeping or morning wood. If I do, it's fairly rare and it's flying at half mast. Being able to have any kind of quality sex without Cialis is extremely rare. Over the last 10 years I've been with 3 different women and never been able to get anyone pregnant. Cialis doesn't work nearly as good as it used to, and Viagra and Levitra, while they worked great for awhile don't do anything anymore. I'm tired of ED to the point of suicide. Very, very serious. I'd also like to be able to be a father in the near future.

I am thinking about HCG. TRT I think would make certain problems worse. I am also thinking about an aromiize inhibitor like Clomid or Arimidex that I read about in other threads. What all should I expect from these products? Do you think they would fix my problems? Create any new ones? Also, my hair is starting to noticably thin out. Would hair loss be aggrivated, reduced or would there be no effect on it?

In one of the threads I read about All Things Male. I cannot open some of the info on their site as I don't have Word. They seem to come highly recommended and they are only a couple hours from me. Before I do I am looking for any advice I can find. I am planning to order more blood tests before I go there and am wondering what all to get.and where is the most economical yet reliable place to get them from?

Another BIG question is an idea of what should I expect for costs of doctor vistis and medications?

Again I appologize for the long post and multiple questions, I'm just desperate for some friendly help & advice.
Thanks to those who took the time to read this.

[SoMdHunter]

b4554: Your total and free test levels are almost exactly where mine were when I started on TRT. Don't give up man.....go see Dr. John. Just don't schedule your appointment on 06 Jun. That is when I go see him!

[b4554]

b4554: Your total and free test levels are almost exactly where mine were when I started on TRT. Don't give up man.....go see Dr. John. Just don't schedule your appointment on 06 Jun. That is when I go see him!

Hope I'm not prying by asking, but can you give me a brief overview of the treatments you've been on, amount of time on them and how the results have been thus far? Thanks!!!

[b4554]

Hope I'm not prying by asking, but can you give me a brief overview of the treatments you've been on, amount of time on them and how the results have been thus far? Thanks!!!

After my last post I noticed and read your 5 page thread detailing your ordeal. I feel for you man. I know all too well the emotional trauma of unrelenting ED. I've got to say I became more amd more depressed reading your experiences with injecting test. Hopefully seeing Dr. John will work out for both of us in getting all the variables correct to get to the root of the problem. I'm just recently single after being in a 6 year and then a 4 year committed relationships. The first girl didn't really like sex that much so my ED wasn't such a huge deal to me at the time. The second woman liked sex and I felt like much less than a man after awhile. For the first few months of our relationship she didn't even know I had ED because I used HUGE quantities of Viagra then Levitra then Cialis. I now have tolerances built up to them (to the point Viagra and Levitra even at triple doses does nothing). I would like to find myself in a better relationship this summer with a more caring more understanding woman, but am terrified of having to have to explain all this to a new gf. Plus how do you tell a woman in her twenties or early thirties that you can never have kids??? Atleast you had a family and understanding wife before the problems started. I'm hopeful HCG/HMG will allow me some fertility.
On a side note I am also in the same boat as you on saving up before seeing Dr. John. How much money have you been figuring on to have as a reserve before seeing him?
I called his office around 2 yesterday afternoon and left a message about becoming a new patient. I haven't heard back yet so I don't know how soon I'd be able to get an appointment.

Best of luck to you bro and keep up posted! Todd

[christopher]

I am not Dr John's patient (not yet).
From his web site:
AllThingsMale.com
OFFICE VISIT FEE - Office or Virtual $ 50.00
ANTI-AGING CONSULTATION $300.00
assume 10 consultations the first year ---$500

Medicines bought from his web site:
AllThingsMale.com
Anastrozole (Compounded) - Compare to Arimidex $ 2.00 PER TAB 0.25 mg Tab --3per week x 52=$312

HCG - (Novarel - Mixing needle supplied) $ 55.00 PER VIAL 10,000 iu, last 60 days---per year $335

Pregnenolone Cream 10% $ 85.00 60 mL, last 60days--per year $517

Testosterone Gel (Compounded) 5% $ 60.00 60 mL last 60 days -- $365

Thyroid (Armour)(#100) 2 grain $ 40.00 120 mg, 3grains/day-- 219/year

HGH (Somatropin) - Cold Pack S&H $25.00 $ 248.00 10.3 g / 31 iu Vial -- last 15 days?????? -- per year $6034

DHEA, DIM, TMG bought somewhere else ----- say LEF DHEA 300mg/day, DualAction 6 pills/day, TMG 1/day ---- $14.25/30days, $22.2/10days, $11.43/180days -- per year $1009

Blood test from LEF---
Hormone Panel, Male--- $224 -- 2 per year --per year $448
Male Life Extension Panel -- $224 -- 2 per year -- per year -$448

Other blood tests, other supplements, per year $2000
Travel to Dr John's office (my case from Newark NJ) $800

------------------
Total yearly cost (approx) =300+500+312+335+517+365+219+6 034+1009+448+448+2000+800=13287
Please add corrections.

Add urine test at Rhein labs $225 2/year $450
---------------------
Looks little steep, but I did not added yet quite few things.
But look also at the alternative of not doing it.

Money do not buy happiness but whats wrong with renting it??
At 67 and still---

DR J....

Does it cost that much per YR to be a patient.....? with Blue Cross PPO..?

[wildfox]

Dr. John does not bill your insurance for you. You must pay him his fee, get a receipt and submit your own claim to your insurance. You might need to meet an out-of-network deductible before you get reimbursed. You can also call his office and ask his assistant about this.

[Hyde12]

Why dont you try to stop smoking weed? Weed lowers Testosterone! If you need to relax get some Phenibut (its works well and its legal)

[biker340]

Weed is good for elevating your estrogen levels.
Stay off all the herbal stuff (T-Bomb, etc...) and get another blood test including E2..

[plymouth city]

Why dont you try to stop smoking weed? Weed lowers Testosterone! If you need to relax get some Phenibut (its works well and its legal)

Show me the study. Any study directly linking THC and lowered testosterone.

[Hyde12]

Show me the study. Any study directly linking THC and lowered testosterone.

Ok..I could not find any studies that directly linked it and its a topic of debate in the medical community. So, this guy has a problem with Testosterone being on the low side then wouldn't it make sense to stop smoking pot to rule that out as being the culprit instead of jumping on to HRT

[plymouth city]

Ok..I could not find any studies that directly linked it and its a topic of debate in the medical community. So, this guy has a problem with Testosterone being on the low side then wouldn't it make sense to stop smoking pot to rule that out as being the culprit instead of jumping on to HRT

THC has no effect on T or E production. Obviously it isn't healthy and Im not condoning it, but just calling a spade a spade.

[Hyde12]

THC has no effect on T or E production. Obviously it isn't healthy and Im not condoning it, but just calling a spade a spade.

Marijuana extracts possess the effects like the endocrine disrupting chemicals.Watanabe K, Motoya E, Matsuzawa N, Funahashi T, Kimura T, Matsunaga T, Arizono K, Yamamoto I.
Department of Hygienic Chemistry, Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Hokuriku University, Ho-3 Kanagawa-machi, Kanazawa 920-1181, Japan. k-watanabe@hokuriku-u.ac.jp

The progesterone 17alpha-hydroxylase activity, which is one of the steroidogenic enzymes in rat testis microsomes, was significantly inhibited by crude marijuana extracts from Delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinolic acid (THCA)- and cannabidiolic acid (CBDA)-strains. Delta(9)-Tetrahydrocannabinol, cannabidiol and cannabinol also inhibited the enzymatic activity with relatively higher concentration (100-1000 microM). Testosterone 6beta- and 16alpha-hydroxylase activities together with androstenedione formation from testosterone in rat liver microsomes were also significantly inhibited by the crude marijuana extracts and the cannabinoids. Crude marijuana extracts (1 and 10 microg/ml) of THCA strain stimulated the proliferation of MCF-7 cells, although the purified cannabinoids (THC, CBD and CBN) did not show significant effects, such as the extract at the concentration of 0.01-1000 nM. These results indicate that there are some metabolic interactions between cannabinoid and steroid metabolism and that the constituents showing estrogen-like activity exist in marijuana.
PMID: 15588936 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Hyde12]

Also have you ever seen any hippies that act like they have an once of Testosterone? I hate f****** Hippies!

[SoMdHunter]

Hope I'm not prying by asking, but can you give me a brief overview of the treatments you've been on, amount of time on them and how the results have been thus far? Thanks!!!

Sure. I was first put on Andrgel at 5mg per day. After 3 months, I still had severe ED, depressed libido, no morning or nocturnal erections, no increase in strength or stamina, sleepy all the time etc.... Essentially I noticed absolutely no difference.

I'm now on 100mgs Test C per week. I've seen improvement, but not as much as I expected. Total test only went from 460 to 487 and free went from 12 to 17.

Before I do anything else, I'm going to go see Dr John. I need an expert as my Urologist said he doesn't have time to work with me.