My Pathetic Situation and Some Questions

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    My Pathetic Situation and Some Questions


    New member here. I'll give you the abbreviated version of the story.

    I'm a 24 yr old, 240 lb powerlifter and I've been lifting for almost 7 years. Well over a year ago, I ran a cycle that lasted entirely too long. It was basic, 500mg test/week, ramping it up to 750mg/ week about halfway through. The entire cycle lasted about 32 weeks. I knew I was taking a risk by staying on that long, but it didn't stop me. It was a huge mistake that I'll regret for the rest of my life. The worst part about it was that it was my third cycle and I knew better.

    I came off last January (2006). I did my normal PCT - ran HCG for the 2 weeks immediately following my last shot, did Clomid starting at 300mg a day and working my way down to 50mg over the course of several weeks. I started to notice that I didn't "feel" recovered. I continued to run the Clomid for several months. Then I waited a month and went for my blood test. Total test was in the low range of normal, and free test was below normal. I waited another month or so - total test was within normal range and had climbed a bit. Free test still below normal. I thought I simply needed more time. I waited until February of this year before running another blood test at a different doctor's office. Both free and total test had crashed and were below normal. The doctor said to drop other supplements I was using and give it another month. She also told me an OTC supplement like DHEA might help me. I was desperate and ignorant at this point, so I went ahead with the DHEA supplementation at 100mg/day. Now, only after reading a bit, do I know that DHEA is more harmful than helpful. I'm slowly weening myself off at this point.

    I ended up getting referred to an endo and he ran another blood test. My levels were even lower than the last blood test (although free test did go up a smidge). He immediately suggested a brief period of TRT to see how I would react. I asked him to try something lkke HCG+clomid first and he said he thought the TRT would be more helpful in the meantime, especially if he wasn't giving me high doses of it. This worried me because I'm only 24 years old - way to young to be jumping on TRT at this point.

    So in the end, he prescribed me 5g Androgel a day for the next 3 months. I started my Androgel last night. I have a couple questions:

    1) Should my doctor have tried another route first? If so, what?

    2) I'm going to be applying the gel at night, but I keep reading that morning is better. My endo said it doesn't matter as long as there are 24 hour periods b/w applications. What is the best thing to do here?

    3) I shower twice a day: once at night after my workout and once in the AM. Will the second shower in the AM decrease my gel absorption?

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    22 views and no replies...Should I have posted this in another section of the forum?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rausch View Post
    New member here. I'll give you the abbreviated version of the story.

    I'm a 24 yr old, 240 lb powerlifter and I've been lifting for almost 7 years. Well over a year ago, I ran a cycle that lasted entirely too long. It was basic, 500mg test/week, ramping it up to 750mg/ week about halfway through. The entire cycle lasted about 32 weeks. I knew I was taking a risk by staying on that long, but it didn't stop me. It was a huge mistake that I'll regret for the rest of my life. The worst part about it was that it was my third cycle and I knew better.

    I came off last January (2006). I did my normal post cycle therapy - ran HCG for the 2 weeks immediately following my last shot, did Clomid starting at 300mg a day and working my way down to 50mg over the course of several weeks. I started to notice that I didn't "feel" recovered. I continued to run the Clomid for several months. Then I waited a month and went for my blood test. Total test was in the low range of normal, and free test was below normal. I waited another month or so - total test was within normal range and had climbed a bit. Free test still below normal. I thought I simply needed more time. I waited until February of this year before running another blood test at a different doctor's office. Both free and total test had crashed and were below normal. The doctor said to drop other supplements I was using and give it another month. She also told me an OTC supplement like DHEA might help me. I was desperate and ignorant at this point, so I went ahead with the DHEA supplementation at 100mg/day. Now, only after reading a bit, do I know that DHEA is more harmful than helpful. I'm slowly weening myself off at this point.

    I ended up getting referred to an endo and he ran another blood test. My levels were even lower than the last blood test (although free test did go up a smidge). He immediately suggested a brief period of TRT to see how I would react. I asked him to try something lkke HCG+clomid first and he said he thought the TRT would be more helpful in the meantime, especially if he wasn't giving me high doses of it. This worried me because I'm only 24 years old - way to young to be jumping on TRT at this point.

    So in the end, he prescribed me 5g Androgel a day for the next 3 months. I started my Androgel last night. I have a couple questions:

    1) Should my doctor have tried another route first? If so, what?

    2) I'm going to be applying the gel at night, but I keep reading that morning is better. My endo said it doesn't matter as long as there are 24 hour periods b/w applications. What is the best thing to do here?

    3) I shower twice a day: once at night after my workout and once in the AM. Will the second shower in the AM decrease my gel absorption?
    REGRADING YOUR QUESTIONS..

    1. I am not a DR. and especially given your history of Cycling am not qualified to give a serious opinion nor do most on here. Dr. John Crisler or Marianco or other specialist would be qualified. Be careful who you take advice from. Many mean well and many have good ideas and basic knowledge, but only a true specialist can give you advice that is worth following. My personal opinion is Forums such as these are best used as source for further investigation and fodder for you to ask good questions.

    Don't let me sound negative though, without this Forum and others I would be listening to my (former)Endo who says it's all in my head.

    Given your age and history, I would not rely on a PCP or Endo. If you are not able to find a qualified dr in your area, see if you can get an openminded one to contact Dr. John for counsel.

    2. Again, not a DR but as long as you maintain 24hr interval you should be fine. Find the most convenient time.

    3. Assuming you apply right after your evening shower, let dry thoroughly and wait 5-6 hours for your morning shower, you should be fine. My guess is something else is at play.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wondering View Post
    REGRADING YOUR QUESTIONS..

    1. I am not a DR. and especially given your history of Cycling am not qualified to give a serious opinion nor do most on here. Dr. John Crisler or Marianco or other specialist would be qualified. Be careful who you take advice from. Many mean well and many have good ideas and basic knowledge, but only a true specialist can give you advice that is worth following. My personal opinion is Forums such as these are best used as source for further investigation and fodder for you to ask good questions.

    Don't let me sound negative though, without this Forum and others I would be listening to my (former)Endo who says it's all in my head.

    Given your age and history, I would not rely on a PCP or Endo. If you are not able to find a qualified dr in your area, see if you can get an openminded one to contact Dr. John for counsel.

    2. Again, not a DR but as long as you maintain 24hr interval you should be fine. Find the most convenient time.

    3. Assuming you apply right after your evening shower, let dry thoroughly and wait 5-6 hours for your morning shower, you should be fine. My guess is something else is at play.
    Regarding #1 where you said that I needed to find a 'qualified doctor....Is that to say that the decision made by my current endo was a poor decision?


    Aside from that, Dr. John, if you read this, I would thoroughly respect your input before I get too deep in TRT territory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rausch View Post
    New member here. I'll give you the abbreviated version of the story.

    I'm a 24 yr old, 240 lb powerlifter and I've been lifting for almost 7 years. Well over a year ago, I ran a cycle that lasted entirely too long. It was basic, 500mg test/week, ramping it up to 750mg/ week about halfway through. The entire cycle lasted about 32 weeks. I knew I was taking a risk by staying on that long, but it didn't stop me. It was a huge mistake that I'll regret for the rest of my life. The worst part about it was that it was my third cycle and I knew better.

    I came off last January (2006). I did my normal post cycle therapy - ran HCG for the 2 weeks immediately following my last shot, did Clomid starting at 300mg a day and working my way down to 50mg over the course of several weeks. I started to notice that I didn't "feel" recovered. I continued to run the Clomid for several months. Then I waited a month and went for my blood test. Total test was in the low range of normal, and free test was below normal. I waited another month or so - total test was within normal range and had climbed a bit. Free test still below normal. I thought I simply needed more time. I waited until February of this year before running another blood test at a different doctor's office. Both free and total test had crashed and were below normal. The doctor said to drop other supplements I was using and give it another month. She also told me an OTC supplement like DHEA might help me. I was desperate and ignorant at this point, so I went ahead with the DHEA supplementation at 100mg/day. Now, only after reading a bit, do I know that DHEA is more harmful than helpful. I'm slowly weening myself off at this point.

    I ended up getting referred to an endo and he ran another blood test. My levels were even lower than the last blood test (although free test did go up a smidge). He immediately suggested a brief period of TRT to see how I would react. I asked him to try something lkke HCG+clomid first and he said he thought the TRT would be more helpful in the meantime, especially if he wasn't giving me high doses of it. This worried me because I'm only 24 years old - way to young to be jumping on TRT at this point.

    So in the end, he prescribed me 5g Androgel a day for the next 3 months. I started my Androgel last night. I have a couple questions:

    1) Should my doctor have tried another route first? If so, what?

    2) I'm going to be applying the gel at night, but I keep reading that morning is better. My endo said it doesn't matter as long as there are 24 hour periods b/w applications. What is the best thing to do here?

    3) I shower twice a day: once at night after my workout and once in the AM. Will the second shower in the AM decrease my gel absorption?
    Post relevant blood tests.
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    Go to AllThingsMale.com and read the literature. If you feel your doctor will cooperate with Dr. John, bring the literature to your doctor. Dr. John will work on a consultation basis with your doctor.
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    You said your levels were below normal.....what were they BEFORE you did any cycling? Guess what - just because your 24 means NOTHING - Many people that age have borderline low T levels and don't even know it.

    Your levels could have been average or slightly below before. Remember, your cardiovascular system, CNS and GH output are all probably very good given your age and that can definitely overcompensate for having shoddy T levels.
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    Another angle. What's your body fat %? I'm sure as a powerlifter you are very strong, but some PLers don't always eat properly, and so you could have a lot of aromatase sites (peripheral fat cells), which won't help your pituitary get in gear (no pun intended) again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    You said your levels were below normal.....what were they BEFORE you did any cycling? Guess what - just because your 24 means NOTHING - Many people that age have borderline low T levels and don't even know it.

    Your levels could have been average or slightly below before. Remember, your cardiovascular system, CNS and GH output are all probably very good given your age and that can definitely overcompensate for having shoddy T levels.
    I honestly don't know where they were before cycling, but I never had a weight gain or lidido issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildfox View Post
    Another angle. What's your body fat %? I'm sure as a powerlifter you are very strong, but some PLers don't always eat properly, and so you could have a lot of aromatase sites (peripheral fat cells), which won't help your pituitary get in gear (no pun intended) again.
    BF is 17-18% - what impact would this have?
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    Aromatization of Testosterone to Estrogen occurs in peripheral fat, among other places. The point, and the probably for many secondary-hypogonadal men is that due to excess fat, they convert so much T to E that their pituitary glands stop producing LH and FSH. Read up on secondary hypogonadism.

    Your BF is not bad. Blood tests including Total T, free T, estradiol (highly sensitive assay), SHBG, LH and FSH among other things can help paint a clearer picture of what might be going on with you.

    Read the literature at AllThingsMale.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildfox View Post
    Aromatization of Testosterone to Estrogen occurs in peripheral fat, among other places. The point, and the probably for many secondary-hypogonadal men is that due to excess fat, they convert so much T to E that their pituitary glands stop producing LH and FSH. Read up on secondary hypogonadism.

    Your BF is not bad. Blood tests including Total T, free T, estradiol (highly sensitive assay), SHBG, LH and FSH among other things can help paint a clearer picture of what might be going on with you.

    Read the literature at AllThingsMale.com
    I'll get my doc to fax the last test results to me and post them...
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    You mentioned you ran HCG as part of your PCT for 2 weeks. What dosage and how many injections did you do?
  

  
 

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