Latest test results...looking better?

[Scottyo]

Ok, here are my latest results. I have talked to my secondary doctor about them but I dont see my primary until APril 12th. Any help would be appreciated.

Right now, I am on 100iu HCG daily. .6ml 50mg/ml test cream. I take 100 DIM at dinner, and sometimes 100mg at breakfast. I am also (just recently switched from 8 pills isocort) on 20mg cortef, which has made me feel a lot better. Also on 1 grain armour thyroid, trying to move it up to 1.5 grains.

I had a couple of other questions. My blood pressure is still quite low, and I get weird leg/calf cramps or what feels like too much or too little blood flow there. Also, I have a real bad FACIAL FLUSH. always in the morning and pretty much throughout the day its still there. Almost like a sunburn or maybe even a niacin-like flush. Any idea the cause or what it means? Ok, onto the tests.

Here are the latest:

Estradiol 21 (0-53) Looks good?
Testosterone Serum 584 241-827
Albumin, Serum 5.0 3.5-5.5
SHBG Serum 23 13-71


TSH 1.738 .350-5.500
T4 5.4 4.5-12
t3 uptake 37 24-39
Free thyroxine index 2.0 1.2-4.9

AST 29 (0-40)
ALT 36 (0-55) First time these two have been normal in years....could it be because I havent worked out before testing?

CBC, Platelet, no differential:

WBC 4.6 (4-10.5) Finally no longer LOW
RBC 4.68 (4.10-5.60)
Hemoglobin 14.8 (12.5-17)
Hematocrit (43.4) (36-50)
MCV 93 (80-98)
MCH 31.7 (27-34)
MCHC 34.2 (32-36)
RDW 14.3 (11.7-15)
Platelets 213 (140-415) STill lower than id like

Homocysteine, Plasma: 4.0 (5-12) I had this checked on a suspicion and its Low.

Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum .2 (0.0-4)

 

[JanSz]

Ok, here are my latest results. I have talked to my secondary doctor about them but I dont see my primary until APril 12th. Any help would be appreciated.

Right now, I am on 100iu HCG daily. .6ml 50mg/ml test cream. I take 100 DIM at dinner, and sometimes 100mg at breakfast. I am also (just recently switched from 8 pills isocort) on 20mg cortef, which has made me feel a lot better. Also on 1 grain armour thyroid, trying to move it up to 1.5 grains.

I had a couple of other questions. My blood pressure is still quite low, and I get weird leg/calf cramps or what feels like too much or too little blood flow there. Also, I have a real bad FACIAL FLUSH. always in the morning and pretty much throughout the day its still there. Almost like a sunburn or maybe even a niacin-like flush. Any idea the cause or what it means? Ok, onto the tests.

Here are the latest:

Estradiol 21 (0-53) Looks good?
Testosterone Serum 584 241-827
Albumin, Serum 5.0 3.5-5.5
SHBG Serum 23 13-71

TSH 1.738 .350-5.500
T4 5.4 4.5-12
t3 uptake 37 24-39
Free thyroxine index 2.0 1.2-4.9

AST 29 (0-40)
ALT 36 (0-55) First time these two have been normal in years....could it be because I havent worked out before testing?

CBC, Platelet, no differential:

WBC 4.6 (4-10.5) Finally no longer LOW
RBC 4.68 (4.10-5.60)
Hemoglobin 14.8 (12.5-17)
Hematocrit (43.4) (36-50)
MCV 93 (80-98)
MCH 31.7 (27-34)
MCHC 34.2 (32-36)
RDW 14.3 (11.7-15)
Platelets 213 (140-415) STill lower than id like

Homocysteine, Plasma: 4.0 (5-12) I had this checked on a suspicion and its Low.

Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum .2 (0.0-4)

Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator
FreeT=137 pg/dL (100-250)
BAT=372 ng/dL (desirable 550)
need more T
get test for
FreeT3
DHEAs
progesterone
TotalE
Estrone

 

[Scottyo]

We tried getting DHT and freet3. For whatever reason, neither showed up in the bloodwork. Im a little frustrated about that.

So your saying Im still on the low end of good? The doctor I saw said my testosterone was HIGH. Not sure what the hell he was thinking if that was true. This wasnt my primary but another doctor.

Anything to say about the low Homocysteine either? Also, where can you look to get a good reference range for test levels? esp. bioavailable?

 

[hardasnails1973]

We tried getting DHT and freet3. For whatever reason, neither showed up in the bloodwork. Im a little frustrated about that.

So your saying Im still on the low end of good? The doctor I saw said my testosterone was HIGH. Not sure what the hell he was thinking if that was true. This wasnt my primary but another doctor.

Anything to say about the low Homocysteine either? Also, where can you look to get a good reference range for test levels? esp. bioavailable?

Yep bank on dhea being in the crapper. Low homocysteine levels means usually you got detoxification problems. 400 mgs sam-e once a day for 2 days then goto 200 in afternnon then 1000 mgs TMG BID, metyl b-12, 5000 mcg, 5000 mcg folionic acid will help raise that up. Low homosyeteine = low methylation and methyl donnors. you numbers are right where mine are !!
low homocystein leads means you got something in you trying to detoxifiy and I bank its copper or estrogen or both !!
Leaky gut and also possible some kind of infection becareful to balance out the Dhea/cortisol ratio and check Lp(A). People with that low of homocystein have tendency to build plaque on arteries

The link between adrenal fatigue and DNA methylation Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients - Find Articles

 

[Scottyo]

Yep bank on dhea being in the crapper. Low homocysteine levels means usually you got detoxification problems. 400 mgs sam-e once a day for 2 days then goto 200 in afternnon then 1000 mgs TMG BID, metyl b-12, 5000 mcg, 5000 mcg folionic acid will help raise that up. Low homosyeteine = low methylation and methyl donnors. you numbers are right where mine are !!
low homocystein leads means you got something in you trying to detoxifiy and I bank its copper or estrogen or both !!
Leaky gut and also possible some kind of infection becareful to balance out the Dhea/cortisol ratio and check Lp(A). People with that low of homocystein have tendency to build plaque on arteries

The link between adrenal fatigue and DNA methylation Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients - Find Articles

ive been on sam-e 400mg since october, plus 500mg tmg 2-3x a day as is.....and those are my numbers. not sure what else to do.

 

[hardasnails1973]

ive been on sam-e 400mg since october, plus 500mg tmg 2-3x a day as is.....and those are my numbers. not sure what else to do.

my bank is your estrogen is elevated at the tissue levels and increasing progesterone with hcg if on TRT may do the trick ..DUH add in 150 mcg chelated molydbenum reason being it will increase metylation from sulfate pathway

 

[legenden1999]

Did you take the test before or after taking HCG/androgel?

JH

 

[hardasnails1973]

scotty with low homocysteine you have fat metabolism problems your body is storing fat in the liver and can not burn it despite normal blood tests.. look at ldh, vldl, ldl i bet they are low normal. watch the fish oils because undermethylators do not tolerate them well. I bet you your arachoncidonic acids are low and your RBC LNA and ALA are also low. molybednum with help u more then anything uric acid are probably low too

 

[Scottyo]

my cholesterol has been VERY low for a long time. even triglycerides were low (didnt know possible), and my vitamin d levels were in the dumps. I have also been on 50mg of pregnenolone because that was low, but its oral so im not sure im absorbing any of it. So how do I improve fat metabolism? Whats with my facial flushing, and my calf cramps?

And im wondering Dr. John's take on the hormones?

 

[cpeil2]

Low homosyeteine = low methylation and methyl donnors. QUOTE]


But the recommended approach for HIGH homocysteine is to take methylating agents and/or methyl donors.

 

[hardasnails1973]

my cholesterol has been VERY low for a long time. even triglycerides were low (didnt know possible), and my vitamin d levels were in the dumps. I have also been on 50mg of pregnenolone because that was low, but its oral so im not sure im absorbing any of it. So how do I improve fat metabolism? Whats with my facial flushing, and my calf cramps?

And im wondering Dr. John's take on the hormones?

Same boat here low triglycerides, low cholesterol, low homocystein levels can be from over abusing fish oils which have caused congestion in your liver from not being oxidixed properly. You need to really examine the phospholipid bi layers to see where the abnormalities occur. If your cell membranes are screwd up you can not get toxins out (estrogen, smog, ect.) you need high dosages of biotin 10-15 mgs with 2000 mgs of b-5 , inostiol, to really start flushing out that liver, but if you did a RBC fatty acid profile I guarrantee you find low arachondic acid, and elevated dha, epa if you have used fish oils in the past. I was doing 2 tsp for 4 months and I had 3 times highest EPA,dha in the cell which was choking off my AA production. With out AA you can not help to trigger the cAMP neceesary for hormone cascade..

Entrez PubMed

 

[cpeil2]

ive been on sam-e 400mg since october, plus 500mg tmg 2-3x a day as is.....and those are my numbers. not sure what else to do.

Just speculating - but maybe you are overdoing on the methyl donors.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Low homosyeteine = low methylation and methyl donnors. QUOTE]


But the recommended approach for HIGH homocysteine is to take methylating agents and/or methyl donors.

if you are low in homocystein you your transulfuration pathway is over loaded and homocysteine is not recycleing back to methione. When it comes to this stuff I understand it fully!! this is indicating that there is some type of toxic exposure and his body is trying to get rid of it by increasing gluthione and bile production and I can pretty much assure you its copper or estrogen. Watch your sulfur intake because that will deplete moly and
i can pretty much guarrantee your zinc levels are low as well due to leaky gut

Why i recommended
methy b-12, folonic acid, TMG, selenium methioinne, zinc mono methionne, 200 mcg they are used for underethyators not over methylation..
if you are taking niacin keep it to 250 mgs or less this will also deplete methy donors.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Just speculating - but maybe you are overdoing on the methyl donors.

Not true the TMG acts as a saftey value if you get the sam-e cycle spinning to fast..And i can guranntee right now his cell membranes since they are not getting enough methyl donors that they are going into aptosis and breaking down the phosphocholine bi lipid layer to get the choline that is not being supplied this is lowering his acteylcholine levels as well which is not good!! ..hence why I can see his arachonic acid being low. Been here before myself..

 

[Scottyo]

They look pretty good to me.

You need a Free T3 assay.

Thanks Dr. John. Now, the question is...why do I still feel so bad so often? I still am unable to work out. When I try, even lightly, the next day my temp is all over the place, I feel light headed/brain fog and my stomach starts acting up all over again. Its been since january where I have been pretty much inactive besides a 40min walk almost every day. I would really like to start back in the gym.
A good example of this abnormality is when I try to use the heart rate monitors (which are generally fairly accurate) at the gym. I have trouble getting the heart rate monitor above 120bpm despite getting to a level that used to have me (easily) at 150-160bpm. Even when I push hard, it still will not raise higher than 140. Yet it seems my thyroid levels are fairly normal, no?

Is it the cortisol issues still? also, any concern about the facial flush or low homocysteine/low cholesterol?

 

[legenden1999]

Did you take the test before or after taking HCG/androgel?

JH

Am I the only one who don't know if these test were taken before or after hcg/gel?

Does that not make a difference on how to interpret the result?

JH

 

[legenden1999]

Yes, how on earth could we see how much medication is getting into the blood if we don't take the drug?!

Well, I read lots of places to test in the morning BEFORE taking androgel/hcg.

If you say to test AFTER applyig androgel and/or taking HCG, I would think its important to know how long after the test was taken, right?

JH

 

[legenden1999]

No one who would say such a thing knows what they are talking about.

OK I see. But then how long after the drugs are taken, should one get the test done?
And how will one know how low the levels go?

Just asking, since neither me or my Doc are experts in this area.

Thanks!

JH

 

[legenden1999]

No one who would say such a thing knows what they are talking about.

I tell my guys to wait two hours prior to their lab draw for T gel, and to have them done the same time each time.

For those on the Crisler HCG Protocol, they do not take their HCG that week, so I can titrate the T by itself.

For those on daily, or QOD HCG, they still take it.

Now, this is great info. Thank you Dr. John.
But I still can't figure out how you determine what the lowest T level is, or maybe that doesn't matter...

JH

 

[hardasnails1973]

Low homocysteine levels are common in autism, diabetes, and genetic mutations in the 5- mthrr, renal disfunction, fatty livers.

Low Total Plasma Homocysteine Concentrations in Patients With Type 1 Diabetes -- Cotellessa et al. 24 (5): 969 -- Diabetes Care

 

[cpeil2]

Low homocysteine levels are common in autism, diabetes, and genetic mutations in the 5- mthrr, renal disfunction, fatty livers.

Low Total Plasma Homocysteine Concentrations in Patients With Type 1 Diabetes -- Cotellessa et al. 24 (5): 969 -- Diabetes Care

There does appear to be a scant body of literature on the condition "hypohomocysteinemia." From a quick read, it seems that the treatment for it is to give sulfur-containing amino acids-cyteine, cystine and methionine.

 

[hardasnails1973]

There does appear to be a scant body of literature on the condition "hypohomocysteinemia." From a quick read, it seems that the treatment for it is to give sulfur-containing amino acids-cyteine, cystine and methionine.

low homocysteine = low gluthione because methione is not recylced = undermethylation and with out proper methylation or cell membranes fall apart due to lack of PC incorportated in the cell membrane. I have been to one of the top drs in the world on this topic and with out proper methyation your cells come unglued, hormones can not bind to the receptors and whole llot of nasty things happen.

TO raise homocystein levels TMG folonic acid and methyl cobaloomin or sam-e

coming up with possible connection that people can not properly metabolise estrogen are undermethylators and have low or normal homocysteine but there pathways are altered from the methylation and over loaded in the transulfuration pathways and over time this will lead to gluthione depletion. My homocystein levels where perfect untill i first went on TRT (estrogen imbalances) and then they dropped to 3.9 but no one picked up on it but dr kane and she jumped right on it with flushing out the liver and having me use methylated forms of folic acid and b-12..

 

[Scottyo]

No one who would say such a thing knows what they are talking about.

I tell my guys to wait two hours prior to their lab draw for T gel, and to have them done the same time each time.

For those on the Crisler HCG Protocol, they do not take their HCG that week, so I can titrate the T by itself.

For those on daily, or QOD HCG, they still take it.

Just another reason that im probably switching to dr. john, once i get back to Michigan for the summer. All those tests were done PRIOR to taking my daily HCG and daily T-gel. I meant to respond to this post earlier in regards to taht. All my doctors previously had told me to do the bloodwork first thing am BEFORE I take anything. Now, this would imply that my TEST levels are going to be significantly higher than they show there....probably too high (id imagine). But that is how I have been testing all along.....

Should I get a new baseline test (or baseline after medications at least) done. this time 2 hours after my hcg and test gel? (im on daily hcg).

 

[hardasnails1973]

Just another reason that im probably switching to dr. john, once i get back to Michigan for the summer. All those tests were done PRIOR to taking my daily HCG and daily T-gel. I meant to respond to this post earlier in regards to taht. All my doctors previously had told me to do the bloodwork first thing am BEFORE I take anything. Now, this would imply that my TEST levels are going to be significantly higher than they show there....probably too high (id imagine). But that is how I have been testing all along.....

Should I get a new baseline test (or baseline after medications at least) done. this time 2 hours after my hcg and test gel? (im on daily hcg).

Also, could you explain a little more Dr. John regarding the too much or too little parasympatic nervous system stuff. any way to check to see which it is?

Would adding daily hcg to a person with low normal test, elevated dht, low LH, estodial 19 (but E/T ratio out of balance), elevated fsh on 5% tcreame help to bring it up to more suitable ranges as well as possible drive down the DHT.

 

[JanSz]

No one who would say such a thing knows what they are talking about.

I tell my guys to wait two hours prior to their lab draw for T gel, and to have them done the same time each time.

For those on the Crisler HCG Protocol, they do not take their HCG that week, so I can titrate the T by itself.

For those on daily, or QOD HCG, they still take it.

Taking a blood sample two hours after Androgel application assures the highest (peak) blood T level is measured. Eybaling chart looks like the mean blood T level any other time is about 100 points lower. Figure 2 on page 5 of:
http://androgel.com/images/ProfessionalInfo.pdf

ie; someone who tested 850ng/dL (on 10grams of Androgel) would actualy have level of about 750 (or less) thruout the rest of the day.

I do not have a data for the 5% gel or other T products.
Consistency of testing is paramount,
are you considering any corrections for the variabilty I just described.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Taking a blood sample two hours after Androgel application assures the highest (peak) blood T level is measured. Eybaling chart looks like the mean blood T level any other time is about 100 points lower. Figure 2 on page 5 of:
http://androgel.com/images/ProfessionalInfo.pdf

ie; someone who tested 850ng/dL (on 10grams of Androgel) would actualy have level of about 750 (or less) thruout the rest of the day.

I do not have a data for the 5% gel or other T products.
Consistency of testing is paramount,
are you considering any corrections for the variabilty I just described.

Alot of factors depends on total testosterone over the 24 hour because I have seen people test at 600 and end up at bottom end of bucket for 24 hour average. Why piss test are so much more accurate.

 

[Scottyo]

I have no idea.

It's almost as though you are either generating insufficient Sympathetic Nervous System response, or too much Parasympathetic System response.

Also, could you explain a little more Dr. John regarding the too much or too little parasympatic nervous system stuff. any way to check to see which it is?

what would cause this. it seems like this has been an issue that nobody ive been to has addressed so far, and i would like to know how i can check it. its very frustrating. I also cant seem to get my heartrate up very well...and i get real bad circulation issues.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Could this be alot of our problems?


The higher the estrogen tissue saturation, the lower the testosterone and the higher the DHT (the hair loss, swollen prostate hormone) This could explain alot what is going on with people with androgel or problems with altered estrogen metabolism. And This is possible where pregenenolone with dhea will help with out using hcg as first resort. People with low LH is probably due to excessive tissue estrogen which is causing retention of copper excretioin of zinc and also depletion of progesterone which Dr john nicely address with use of pregenenlone, dhea and DIM before bringing in the HCG (just a theory). Jansz I think this is where you may have tried to go with but fact that pregenolone cream might be a better route before adding in the HCG, I am starting to see DR. JOhns methods and when you look at them they really make sense and very ingenius. So people with altered estrogen metabolism it would be first to see if one can stabilize the estrogen imbalance by feeding the building blocks to increase progesterone such as the DHEA, and pregenelone cream, DIM, fish oils. DIM can also raise progesterone on its own which in many cases cause excretion of copper, and increase zinc up take into the tissue, using the DIM will also prevent the dhea and pregenelone from taking the wrong pathway with estrogen metabolism. Reason why people crash on the DIM is probably there inability to detoxify the converted estrogen and causing over load to the liver, As Dr John does he corrects this by addding a small amount of tmg as a saftey valve to help ltake burden off liver. My hypothesis is that people have problems with DIm have low glutione levels to begin with and thats why they have erectile problems.. One can also imply mik thistle as well to aid in the detoxifcation. How many of us sit in front of the computer all day long and rarely get out side in the sun creating a melatonin defieincy . I been digging around and found that melatonin imbalances can affect proper estrogen metabolism and by adding in melatonin 1-2 mgs before bed this may help our bodys to over come and detoxify excesive estrogen as well since estrogen does deplete gluthione levels and techniaclly can cause alteration in t4 to t3 by also this mechanism as well, plus also binding to the receptors sites too..

 

[legenden1999]

Taking a blood sample two hours after Androgel application assures the highest (peak) blood T level is measured. Eybaling chart looks like the mean blood T level any other time is about 100 points lower. Figure 2 on page 5 of:
http://androgel.com/images/ProfessionalInfo.pdf

ie; someone who tested 850ng/dL (on 10grams of Androgel) would actualy have level of about 750 (or less) thruout the rest of the day.

I do not have a data for the 5% gel or other T products.
Consistency of testing is paramount,
are you considering any corrections for the variabilty I just described.

GREAT chart, thank you.

Does anyone have one to show how HCG acts on T levels through the day?

JH

 

[Scottyo]

Also, could you explain a little more Dr. John regarding the too much or too little parasympatic nervous system stuff. any way to check to see which it is?

what would cause this. it seems like this has been an issue that nobody ive been to has addressed so far, and i would like to know how i can check it. its very frustrating. I also cant seem to get my heartrate up very well...and i get real bad circulation issues.[/QUOTE\]



Well, today was a good example of my problems. After trying a very light 30 minutes on the elipse yesterday, and feeling good (although very little sweating) during and afterwords, I proceeded to sleep poorly despite using Lunesta. I then woke up at 745 and could not fall back asleep. Went through the usual morning routines feeling like ****. I went to mass at 11, and halfway through almost fell over from passing out/dizziness. Went to a health center and they want me to go to a cardiologist now bc/ of my low pulse rate (40's...despite no real exercise in the last 3 months), and low blood pressure. Mentioned possible AUTONOMIC NEUROPATHY. Looked it up online and it seems almost all of the symptoms fit to a tee. Autonomic neuropathy: Signs and symptoms - MayoClinic.com

anyone?

 

[Scottyo]

Any comments on my "reaction" sunday. I really dont like this about to pass out feeling. dizziness is one thing.

and is a cardiologist really the person to see regarding low pulse low blood pressure?