How to absorb 5% or 10% cream as opposed to 1% also which is best?

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    How to absorb 5% or 10% cream as opposed to 1% also which is best?


    I was on 1% Testim and switched to 5% and thinking about 10%. I cant get the absorbtion on the 5%. Everyone seems to say 5% is better than 1% and 10% is better still. Has anyone switched 1% to 5 0r 10%? what are the benefits and how do you apply it for best absorbtion?

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    some People just do not absorb due to skin hydration problems from adrenal or thyroid problems. If 5% cream does not work be a man and take the shots !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Ainslie View Post
    I was on 1% Testim and switched to 5% and thinking about 10%. I cant get the absorbtion on the 5%. Everyone seems to say 5% is better than 1% and 10% is better still. Has anyone switched 1% to 5 0r 10%? what are the benefits and how do you apply it for best absorbtion?
    Try 10% cream if gell is not working for you, spread over larger area.
    Before I started using Tcream I was for 3.5 years on Androgel.
    Absorbtion vise, totally no problem. Within 1-2 minutes skin was dry. I switched to T cream because:
    1. I have a grandson around
    2. Deductable on my prescription plan was larger than outright cost of the Tcream.
    3. I am using HCG, so I am not really shy of shots. But T shots are last on my list, mostly due to variation of T level in the blood.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Try 10% cream if gell is not working for you, spread over larger area.
    Before I started using Tcream I was for 3.5 years on Androgel.
    Absorbtion vise, totally no problem. Within 1-2 minutes skin was dry. I switched to T cream because:
    1. I have a grandson around
    2. Deductable on my prescription plan was larger than outright cost of the Tcream.
    3. I am using HCG, so I am not really shy of shots. But T shots are last on my list, mostly due to variation of T level in the blood.
    I do not absorb the creame, but I have absorbed the gel in the past, but i do not know. Dht went through the 2 times the highest end, but dr john said that test is invalid, but if the test is converting the DHT becauase of being zinc defieincy which my progesterone did drop from 1.2 to .6 which tells me something is dropping it and estrogen/test is altered causing all. If I do the urine test from rhien then it will be identified fre progesterone will probably come up low wuld explain elevated BHP and adrenal, thyroid imbalances. And that the intestinal infection if identified from the stool sample is the driving force from all of it. If I ask to goto the gel my drs going to get pissed because of changin another precription, but if it is not working then why waste time on it.?
    If i hadded hcg that would boost up the progesterone and dhea which I am really low in to begin with. The HCg when used it I felt like I got more out of it then the testcreame..
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    some People just do not absorb due to skin hydration problems from adrenal or thyroid problems. If 5% cream does not work be a man and take the shots !!
    I tried the shots, feel much better on Gel
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Ainslie View Post
    I tried the shots, feel much better on Gel
    Well if you can not absorb the gel or cream you are left no choice LOL
    DO you thinki should waste my time on the gel then or goto right to shots Programmer or Dr john. Progrmmers going to tell me togoto the shots. Have any of you went from creame to gel and fared better?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Ainslie View Post
    I was on 1% Testim and switched to 5% and thinking about 10%. I cant get the absorbtion on the 5%. Everyone seems to say 5% is better than 1% and 10% is better still. Has anyone switched 1% to 5 0r 10%? what are the benefits and how do you apply it for best absorbtion?
    Where are you currently applying the T Cream?
    Where did you buy your T Cream from and do you know what base they used by any chance?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1cc View Post
    Where are you currently applying the T Cream?
    Where did you buy your T Cream from and do you know what base they used by any chance?
    Appllying cream on forarms and also shoulder, i tried under the flank rib and it was not getting through. I had the plo gel and swtiched to standard base now. My dht went up to 2.5 times highest level on plo gel, but how is this possible if testosterone did not go up proportioinally. Would the injection over ride this. Is it because of it being converted going through the skin. i am on the standard TRT base. My dhea is in the toilet and progesterione drooped to .6 from 1.2 and this was when I was just on the t creame 10% with plo no estrogen blocker. Plus shbg was doubled from base line..
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Appllying cream on forarms and also shoulder, i tried under the flank rib and it was not getting through. I had the plo gel and swtiched to standard base now.
    The cream used should be compounded using a vanishing cream base. The cream needs to be applied on thin hairless skin, such as the inner forearms or inner bicep. Applying the cream to thicker skin as you mentioned above will slow down absorption too much, and you will only feel the T much later in the day or evening. Itís good you switched from PLO, because it is not a good base for HRT.

    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    My dht went up to 2.5 times highest level on plo gel, but how is this possible if testosterone did not go up proportioinally. Would the injection over ride this. Is it because of it being converted going through the skin. i am on the standard TRT base. My dhea is in the toilet and progesterione drooped to .6 from 1.2 and this was when I was just on the t creame 10% with plo no estrogen blocker. Plus shbg was doubled from base line..
    I donít know what your dosage of T Cream was, but it looks like you have a high DHT conversion. The higher DHT will inhibit your LH production via the HPTA, which will cause you to have lower T levels as well as will account for your lower progesterone. LH stimulates the production of pregnenolone and pregnenolone converts to progesterone.

    Since you have a high DHT conversion, you would not be a candidate for doing T Cream solo. What you can do, which is what I do, is to take a very small dosage of T Cream which will give you a nice DHT level, and then use a small dose of HCG (100iu per day every day) to raise your T levels.

    This is what I do:

    100iu HCG subq every day in AM (APP Brand)
    25mg T Cream every day in AM as described above
    10mg pregnenolone every day in AM on empty stomach with salted water
    5mg Hydrocortisone every day in AM on empty stomach with salted water
    25mg DHEA every day in AM after breakfast with something oily

    These labs were done 3 hours after HCG shot and T Cream:

    Total T 611 241-827
    Free T 212 34-194
    Free and weakly bound T 428 84-402
    Albumin 4.4 3.6-5.1
    SHBG 15 8-46
    Estradiol 31 13-54
    Progesterone 1.1 <1.4
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1cc View Post
    The cream used should be compounded using a vanishing cream base. The cream needs to be applied on thin hairless skin, such as the inner forearms or inner bicep. Applying the cream to thicker skin as you mentioned above will slow down absorption too much, and you will only feel the T much later in the day or evening. It’s good you switched from PLO, because it is not a good base for HRT.



    I don’t know what your dosage of T Cream was, but it looks like you have a high DHT conversion. The higher DHT will inhibit your LH production via the HPTA, which will cause you to have lower T levels as well as will account for your lower progesterone. LH stimulates the production of pregnenolone and pregnenolone converts to progesterone.

    Since you have a high DHT conversion, you would not be a candidate for doing T Cream solo. What you can do, which is what I do, is to take a very small dosage of T Cream which will give you a nice DHT level, and then use a small dose of HCG (100iu per day every day) to raise your T levels.

    This is what I do:

    100iu HCG subq every day in AM (APP Brand)
    25mg T Cream every day in AM as described above
    10mg pregnenolone every day in AM on empty stomach with salted water
    5mg Hydrocortisone every day in AM on empty stomach with salted water
    25mg DHEA every day in AM after breakfast with something oily

    These labs were done 3 hours after HCG shot and T Cream:

    Total T 611 241-827
    Free T 212 34-194
    Free and weakly bound T 428 84-402
    Albumin 4.4 3.6-5.1
    SHBG 15 8-46
    Estradiol 31 13-54
    Progesterone 1.1 <1.4
    Results 3 hours after 100 mgs of 10% creame in plo gel I stopped armidex, hcg, dim, for 3 months just the cream so this is "baseline reading" Why my dr had me do it i did not know it was living hell going from

    When I was in my glory !! feeling like a real man
    250 ius of hcg EOD
    .5 armidex m,th
    50 mgs of t creame daily

    results after 3 hours blood drawn
    total test 307
    free test weekly bounded 124 (84-402)
    shbg 38 (5-49)
    albumin 4.7 3.7-5.1
    estrodial 19 10-50
    progesterone .6 <1.4 was 1.2 !!
    dhea-s 97 (110-397)
    lh 2.1 1.9-9.0 THIS IS WHERE I THINK HCG IS WILL HELP
    preg 20 (0-200)
    Lp(a) 112 <75 indication of FISH OILS NEEDED, and e/test, dhea ratio out of wack


    Doing now
    12.5 mgs DHEA sprays
    5 mgs cortef with 1/2 tsp sea salts morning and then 5 mgs lunch, and dinner
    25 mcgs t-3 (wilsons syndrome)
    100 mgs t creame once daily
    NO HCG, TMG 1000 mgs BID,

    I have an idea what needs to be done I did HCG 250 ius EOD, 5 grams t creame, .5 mgs armidex every 3 days with this combo i had morning erections shaving every other day vs once every 2 freaken weeks NOW. gained 15 lbs in 2 weeks of solid muscle and bench shot up from 245 to 315 for 6, but I want dr john to tell me him self .

    So does dht drive progesterone in to the ground and will progesterone keep the dht in check? So hcg can actually lower the dht and free up more testosterone and total T. So the DHT and not estrogen is sending the feed back loop to shut down the LH and to lower the progesterone and could also explain my low pregenolone, and dhea-s levels because the DHT is causing LH to drop causing progesterone and prengenone as well plus my own testosterone production. Does this makes sense?

    I have an idea my 2:16alpha-Hydroxyestrone ratio are out of wack due to decreases consumption of fish oils which could also lower the SHBG as well. I stopped all fish oils because of an imbalance of EPA/AA ratio now i think that needs to be checked. I think I have too much AA and not enough EPA could explain the rise in shbg with normal estrodial levels but the esterone levels are elevates (urine test will pick that up)

    How much fish oils like 1 TSP BID a day?


    I know what needs to be done but I kept things stable even though so when I consult with dr john there are no errors or bumps so to speak. Before consulting with Dr john I am going to get a urine test from rhine so we can have all that data together all proper information is needed


    Here is my theory when first taking the creame I had no problems but at the same time I was only 2-3 months into correcting the low AA levels , but stopping the fish oils for 4 months. I felt really great and on top od the world then about 2 months later I felt like crap no gains and depressed despite all same varaibles. Even though my estrodial has always been in check I think my 2:16alpha-Hydroxyestrone ratio was shifting to more bad:good and that my abiltiy to metabolis estrogen was being altered and i already had improper e/t ratio for the longest time. So due to the altered ratios of 2:16alpha-Hydroxyestrone I was increasing total estrogen and flooding the receptors sites which was driving free progesterone levels into the ground as well as increasing the DHT to test conversion causing suppression of the LH levels resulting in low progesterone/ dhea/ testosterone levels elevated dht/estrogen/shbg So adding fish oils will help to rebalance this 2:16alpha-Hydroxyestrone ratio restabilizing proper estrogen metabolism and lower the DH/estrogen and increasing the progesterioen/dhea/testosterone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1cc View Post
    The cream used should be compounded using a vanishing cream base. The cream needs to be applied on thin hairless skin, such as the inner forearms or inner bicep. Applying the cream to thicker skin as you mentioned above will slow down absorption too much, and you will only feel the T much later in the day or evening. Itís good you switched from PLO, because it is not a good base for HRT.



    I donít know what your dosage of T Cream was, but it looks like you have a high DHT conversion. The higher DHT will inhibit your LH production via the HPTA, which will cause you to have lower T levels as well as will account for your lower progesterone. LH stimulates the production of pregnenolone and pregnenolone converts to progesterone.

    Since you have a high DHT conversion, you would not be a candidate for doing T Cream solo. What you can do, which is what I do, is to take a very small dosage of T Cream which will give you a nice DHT level, and then use a small dose of HCG (100iu per day every day) to raise your T levels.

    This is what I do:

    100iu HCG subq every day in AM (APP Brand)
    25mg T Cream every day in AM as described above
    10mg pregnenolone every day in AM on empty stomach with salted water
    5mg Hydrocortisone every day in AM on empty stomach with salted water
    25mg DHEA every day in AM after breakfast with something oily

    These labs were done 3 hours after HCG shot and T Cream:

    Total T 611 241-827
    Free T 212 34-194
    Free and weakly bound T 428 84-402
    Albumin 4.4 3.6-5.1
    SHBG 15 8-46
    Estradiol 31 13-54
    Progesterone 1.1 <1.4
    1cc, Have you considered using 10% pregnenolone cream instead of pills?
    Pregnenolone Cream 10% $ 85.00 60 mL
    AllThingsMale.com
    Since good doc have it in his aphothecary hi most likely consider it valuable.
    What is the function of salt?
    -------
    There are certain desirable ratios Philip Miller MD mentions in his book Life Extension Revolution, page 245:
    DHEA/cortisol(15-25)
    progesterone/estrogen(I guess it is total)(15-20)
    TotalT/estrogen(I guess it is total)(80-120)
    Estradiol/FreeT(less than 1)
    ====
    Your Estradiol is probably high.
    I do not see DIM+I3C+TMG
    and/or Arimidex in your list of supplements
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    -------
    There are certain desirable ratios Philip Miller MD mentions in his book Life Extension Revolution, page 245:
    DHEA/cortisol(15-25)
    progesterone/estrogen(I guess it is total)(15-20)
    TotalT/estrogen(I guess it is total)(80-120)
    Estradiol/FreeT(less than 1)
    ====
    Your Estradiol is probably high.
    I do not see DIM+I3C+TMG
    and/or Arimidex in your list of supplements[/QUOTE]

    I think theses are very important concepts that are over looked by general drs and are a MUST !!

    So in theory changing the ratio of bad to good estrogen from excesive the Arachonsidonic acid levels and low fish oil intake could in theory help lower the total estrogen and raise the progesterone and lower the DHT levels freeing up the lh hormone and kicking up own testosterone production?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Results 3 hours after 100 mgs of 10% creame in plo gel.
    Since you have a very high DHT conversion, 100mgs T is too high a dose.

    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    I know what needs to be done but I kept things stable even though so when I consult with dr john there are no errors or bumps so to speak. Before consulting with Dr john I am going to get a urine test from rhine so we can have all that data together all proper information is needed
    Iím glad that youíre going to be seeing Dr. John, because you couldnít be in better hands. He will be able to get this all worked out for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    1cc, Have you considered using 10% pregnenolone cream instead of pills?
    Pregnenolone Cream 10% $ 85.00 60 mL
    AllThingsMale.com
    Since good doc have it in his aphothecary hi most likely consider it valuable.
    What is the function of salt?
    Pregnenolone cream would probably be better. Most of the literature Iíve read, the doctors have used oral pregnenolone.

    I have Adrenal Fatigue and one of the symptoms is that my body does not retain salt as well as it should because of lower aldosterone levels. I supplement Ĺ teaspoon of salt with a full glass of water every morning.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    There are certain desirable ratios Philip Miller MD mentions in his book Life Extension Revolution, page 245:
    DHEA/cortisol(15-25)
    progesterone/estrogen(I guess it is total)(15-20)
    TotalT/estrogen(I guess it is total)(80-120)
    Estradiol/FreeT(less than 1)
    ====
    Your Estradiol is probably high.
    I do not see DIM+I3C+TMG
    and/or Arimidex in your list of supplements
    I have not looked at the ratios very much. I go more by how I feel and the lab ranges. What if you have great ratios but feel like crap? I believe Dr. John does not pay much attention to ratios.

    I would have liked to have my Estradiol at about 25 ideally, but at 31 it is by no means high at all. I may look at this at some point to see if an adjustment in my dosages can be made to bring this a little lower.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1cc View Post
    Pregnenolone cream would probably be better. Most of the literature I’ve read, the doctors have used oral pregnenolone.

    I have Adrenal Fatigue and one of the symptoms is that my body does not retain salt as well as it should because of lower aldosterone levels. I supplement Ĺ teaspoon of salt with a full glass of water every morning.



    I have not looked at the ratios very much. I go more by how I feel and the lab ranges. What if you have great ratios but feel like crap? I believe Dr. John does not pay much attention to ratios.

    I would have liked to have my Estradiol at about 25 ideally, but at 31 it is by no means high at all. I may look at this at some point to see if an adjustment in my dosages can be made to bring this a little lower.
    Dr john does look at the ratios he spotted my e/t ratio even though estrodial in normal range (19) it was still too high compared to ratio.

    Going on a strong specualtion of hidden estrogen domaince for past 3 years and no DR ever beleiving me it feels goood that he spotted it right away and made me feel good that I was not crazy and needed paxil. My homocysteine levels took a nose dive from 7 to 3.5 after starting TRT which was telling me that esotrgen was in play, but since estrodial was in normal range 20-30 drs never even looked at the ratio. Problem was that blood test were takin with out the creame being applied first all the time.. After being sent to 3 shrinks and them saying the same thing I am one of the emotional stable people they have met it left dr baffled and the psychiatrist asking why they had offer me antidepressant when there was no clincal need for it. No DO should be able to give out paxil with out a proper psychiastric evaluation. For god sakes since when did a DO become a expert in psychology. If they do not know crap about nutrition what do they know about the workings of the brain (talking about general DO's )

    I Want so bad to go on HCG and lower the dosage back to 50 grams a day, but I do not want to do anything with out consulting dr john first because it sounds right but in my case is it? I know hcg will boost up progesterone, pregnenonllone, dhea, cortisol. testosterone production that is what I need and also feed the LH which is being interrupted by the excessive estrogen, dht and reducing creame will also reduce the DHT taking stress off prostate. I think the best step is suck it up for another week have dr order the Rhine urine test and to go from there and have all the information in hand so dr john has all the data..Do you think that is the right route. The thing is I do not want to self medicate even though I have been hearning the same thing over and over again addin 100 ius every or 200 every other day, its so tempting because I knew how i felt before !! SOO GOOD
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1cc View Post
    Pregnenolone cream would probably be better. Most of the literature Iíve read, the doctors have used oral pregnenolone.

    I have Adrenal Fatigue and one of the symptoms is that my body does not retain salt as well as it should because of lower aldosterone levels. I supplement Ĺ teaspoon of salt with a full glass of water every morning.



    I have not looked at the ratios very much. I go more by how I feel and the lab ranges. What if you have great ratios but feel like crap? I believe Dr. John does not pay much attention to ratios.I would have liked to have my Estradiol at about 25 ideally, but at 31 it is by no means high at all. I may look at this at some point to see if an adjustment in my dosages can be made to bring this a little lower.
    Dr John does look at ratios. He just never (as far as I know) spelled out what he is looking at.
    I just hope that he will let us peek at his "Estrogen Managemant" presentation, long promissed.

    With all that, Kanecore have his TT=900(quite high) and E2=18
    to keep same ratio, someone with lover TT should have E2 lower than 18 to keep same ratio. But I may be all wet, there are other ratios, there is TotalE. I could really use good explanation.

    In that book, I just mentioned, there is a problem or two.
    1. he uses FreeTestosterone as produced by LabCorp test (I think). Not sure how to translate those to the correct ones. Acually, if you believe report I posted many times, there is no corelation, ie; random.
    2. he uses TotalT as produced by LabCorp, but multiplies units 10x

    All together I could use somebody more inteligent than I to decypher this Androgen/Estrogen balance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1cc View Post
    The cream used should be compounded using a vanishing cream base. The cream needs to be applied on thin hairless skin, such as the inner forearms or inner bicep. Applying the cream to thicker skin as you mentioned above will slow down absorption too much, and you will only feel the T much later in the day or evening. It’s good you switched from PLO, because it is not a good base for HRT.



    I don’t know what your dosage of T Cream was, but it looks like you have a high DHT conversion. The higher DHT will inhibit your LH production via the HPTA, which will cause you to have lower T levels as well as will account for your lower progesterone. LH stimulates the production of pregnenolone and pregnenolone converts to progesterone.

    Since you have a high DHT conversion, you would not be a candidate for doing T Cream solo. What you can do, which is what I do, is to take a very small dosage of T Cream which will give you a nice DHT level, and then use a small dose of HCG (100iu per day every day) to raise your T levels.

    This is what I do:

    100iu HCG subq every day in AM (APP Brand)
    25mg T Cream every day in AM as described above
    10mg pregnenolone every day in AM on empty stomach with salted water
    5mg Hydrocortisone every day in AM on empty stomach with salted water
    25mg DHEA every day in AM after breakfast with something oily

    These labs were done 3 hours after HCG shot and T Cream:

    Total T 611 241-827
    Free T 212 34-194
    Free and weakly bound T 428 84-402
    Albumin 4.4 3.6-5.1
    SHBG 15 8-46
    Estradiol 31 13-54
    Progesterone 1.1 <1.4
    I agree 100% the more I am on this 10% tcreame the harder it is to pee or crap tonight getting ultrasound done on prostrate bc of these idiot drs not knowing their ass from a hole in the wall . Plus the 10% creame area is so hard to condense into a small area to absorb that not helping the DHT conversion as well eithe, but like dr john said measureaf 50 mgs from a 10% creame will not really be accurate, i have heard him mention this several time and better going with a 5% creame or gel. The one compunding pharmacy mixed up 50 mgs in to .1 ml and that was so easy to apply and the area was a size of a quater and i was measuring 425 total test the day after creame applied and estrodial was 25 still out of wack ratio, but shbg was 22

    Excessive estrogen and not being able to metabolise it is jaming up thyroid adrenals testosterone and its been for 3 years !! and no DR would freaken listen to me because it was so simple. First endo I went to saif my pituitary was asleep HMMMM how about Estrogen was metaboliclly jamming everything up !!


    Here is my thinking if my bd:good estrogen is out of wack then this is driving progesterone down (actually by serum it did 1.2 to .6) and raising up dht/estrogen (verified) and loweing the LH 9verified) and my own production of total test and by correcting the EPA/AA ratio with fish oils ( ihave not had fish in over 8 months) NONE due to "mercury toxcity" which was never proven but only hypotheisied. So having a baseline reading before I start and by adding in 2-3 tsp of fish oils a day for say 3 months and then retest the RBC fatty acid levels of EPA/AA then this should help in bringing body back to balance with proper estrogen metabolism. Plus doing the urine test will also verufy this as well as even more eveidence and will show if I really do need DIM at all. 2 tsp pf fish oils at once give me diarreah so I will start with 1 tsp BID and increase it over the next 2-3 weeks and I am stopping the EPO at 6 a day (too much AA). on past liver function test i had excessive lipid periodation and also elevated histamines, under methyation which all are estrogen driven UGHHHH and drs ignored it as usual..

    My game plan
    1. indentify the pathogen in gut affecting estrogen metaboilsm stool sample
    2. identify the ratio of bad:good estrogen
    3. 24 hour urine test to give clinical pics to what is going on with hormones in one week
    4. identify how bad prostrate is swollen from excessive estrogen and dht

    Currently
    Going to add in some fish oils reduce the flax seed oil (did 2 weeks ago already) help lower lp(a) as well adding in niacin as well 1500 mgs a day for that as well as 3000 mgs vitamin C
    increase merthylation from estrogen depleting with methy donors
    eat balanced meal
    cardio 4-5 times a week, weight train as well
    No DIm for now becauase of not knowing estrogen metabolism
    pratctice mediation before bed
    get 30-60 minutes of sunlight a day
    Going to call dr and ask if i can reduce the cream because of enlarge prostrate
    Keeping dhea at 25 mgs a day too much can cause estrogen problems even though it is low (having a feeling hcg can really increase this ), but not right now though so tempted
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Well if you can not absorb the gel or cream you are left no choice LOL
    DO you thinki should waste my time on the gel then or goto right to shots Programmer or Dr john. Progrmmers going to tell me togoto the shots. Have any of you went from creame to gel and fared better?
    Give the TD a try first. They are superior to shots. If it doesn't work, THEN go to shots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Give the TD a try first. They are superior to shots. If it doesn't work, THEN go to shots.

    I am trust me but i think that its not the cream that the problem but the altered estrogen metabolism from lack of fish oils (elevated lp(a) ), hidden intestinal infection (orginal problem from the start) that is the real problem driving down the progesterone and increase DHT conversion as well as sucking my body of zinc and magnesium, and other antioxidents.


    THIS IS HOW IT TIES IN TO MY CASE !!! I HAD FOOD POISONING WITH 10 different bacterial infections and here you can see how estrogen can go rampant in that case !!

    thought that would be that, but the problem wasn't that my estrogen was too high in relation to the testosterone, it was too high, period. It turns out that there is a charming little bacteria that lives in our gut that was ripping the estrogen off of its glucuronide escort that it attached to in the liver, and so frees the estrogen to recirulate rather than letting it be escorted out of our bodies through our waste elimination system. (Actually, the unbinding is caused by Ŗ-glucuronidase, a glucuronide-destroying enzyme produced by one or more of the more than 500 species of gut bacteria that inhabit a healthy gut.*) For some reason, my bacteria were running rampant, pillaging the glucuronides, so glucuronidation had essentially stopped. Thus, not only was the new estrogen my body was producing naturally being circulated, but so was the estrogen from my birth control pills AND all the internally manufacturered estrogen that should have been eliminated. Since I was tested after I'd been off the pill for over a month (and had experienced no abatement of the symptoms), the high estrogen test results showed that it was my naturally occurring estrogen - both the new estrogen being made by my body as well as the used estrogen that was being recirculated instead of being glucaronidized that was causing the problem.The gut digestive test that he uses (Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab's Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis) does not look for anaerobic organisms (other than E. coli which, in "normal" amounts, is healthy), so we don't know which are present or in what numbers. Anaerobic organisms, such as E. coli, Bacteriodes, and Clostridia, are known to induce the formation of glucuronidase I HAD ALL OF THEM AND A TON MORE !! and I bet you i still DO !!

    A diet low in fish oil decreases the ratio of 2-(OH)- estrogen to 16-alpha-(OH)-estrogen and thereby increases cancer risk. Intake of fish oil also has been observed to inhibit the formation of human breast cancer cells in laboratory studies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    I think the best step is suck it up for another week have dr order the Rhine urine test and to go from there and have all the information in hand so dr john has all the data..Do you think that is the right route.
    No doubt! That is the best thing to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    The thing is I do not want to self medicate even though I have been hearning the same thing over and over again addin 100 ius every or 200 every other day, its so tempting because I knew how i felt before !! SOO GOOD
    Well, with Dr. John handling your case, hopefully you'll be feeling good again pretty soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Dr John does look at ratios.
    ratio's : E2/T and DHT/T
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1cc View Post
    No doubt! That is the best thing to do.



    Well, with Dr. John handling your case, hopefully you'll be feeling good again pretty soon.
    Thank you I have no doubt at all. When it comes to dr i thoroughly research things out to find out the best and then just let them do their thing..i feel totally confident in dr john and with the proper testing (urine test) alot will show !!) i was feeling good on 5grams t creame and 250 ius hcg with .5 armidex m, th and then i do not know why doctor did not want to test me as is but wanted a base line reading and befor eI could get it My insurance ran out and I had to stick this out for 5 months before knowing how really out of balance I was !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    I am trust me but i think that its not the cream that the problem but the altered estrogen metabolism from lack of fish oils (elevated lp(a) ), hidden intestinal infection (orginal problem from the start) that is the real problem driving down the progesterone and increase DHT conversion as well as sucking my body of zinc and magnesium, and other antioxidents.


    THIS IS HOW IT TIES IN TO MY CASE !!! I HAD FOOD POISONING WITH 10 different bacterial infections and here you can see how estrogen can go rampant in that case !!

    thought that would be that, but the problem wasn't that my estrogen was too high in relation to the testosterone, it was too high, period. It turns out that there is a charming little bacteria that lives in our gut that was ripping the estrogen off of its glucuronide escort that it attached to in the liver, and so frees the estrogen to recirulate rather than letting it be escorted out of our bodies through our waste elimination system. (Actually, the unbinding is caused by Ŗ-glucuronidase, a glucuronide-destroying enzyme produced by one or more of the more than 500 species of gut bacteria that inhabit a healthy gut.*) For some reason, my bacteria were running rampant, pillaging the glucuronides, so glucuronidation had essentially stopped. Thus, not only was the new estrogen my body was producing naturally being circulated, but so was the estrogen from my birth control pills AND all the internally manufacturered estrogen that should have been eliminated. Since I was tested after I'd been off the pill for over a month (and had experienced no abatement of the symptoms), the high estrogen test results showed that it was my naturally occurring estrogen - both the new estrogen being made by my body as well as the used estrogen that was being recirculated instead of being glucaronidized that was causing the problem.The gut digestive test that he uses (Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab's Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis) does not look for anaerobic organisms (other than E. coli which, in "normal" amounts, is healthy), so we don't know which are present or in what numbers. Anaerobic organisms, such as E. coli, Bacteriodes, and Clostridia, are known to induce the formation of glucuronidase I HAD ALL OF THEM AND A TON MORE !! and I bet you i still DO !!

    A diet low in fish oil decreases the ratio of 2-(OH)- estrogen to 16-alpha-(OH)-estrogen and thereby increases cancer risk. Intake of fish oil also has been observed to inhibit the formation of human breast cancer cells in laboratory studies.
    Interesting. Ive been taking fish oil + CLA + Vit E forever and they make a big difference. Ive noticed my skin has a much healthier, fresh glo.

    I had no idea you were a girl! Im very impressed with your knowledge. Most females I speak with know very little of the endocrine system. Kudos to you for taking empowerment over your health/well being. Pretty much every girl I know I try and take time to teach them about the dangers of the birth control pill. Never, ever mess with mother nature

    Best of luck!
    Last edited by plymouth city; 03-20-2007 at 05:28 PM. Reason: none
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Interesting. Ive been taking fish oil + CLA + Vit E forever and they make a big difference. Ive noticed my skin has a much healthier, fresh glo.

    I had no idea you were a girl! Im very impressed with your knowledge. Most females I speak with know very little of the endocrine system. Kudos to you for taking empowerment over your health/well being. Pretty much every girl I know I try and take time to teach them about the dangers of the birth control pill.

    Best of luck!
    Sorry bro I am all man what little testosterone I do have I just posted that for the fact of how the intestinal bacteria can alter the metabolic pathways of estrogen and how it can change the good to bad:ratio and leave estrodial perfectly un touched LOL

    When was last time that dr john had girls wanting to be as patience. I know the "cave" where come from is a male strip club where i used to work before getting sick LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Sorry bro I am all man what little testosterone I do have I just posted that for the fact of how the intestinal bacteria can alter the metabolic pathways of estrogen and how it can change the good to bad:ratio and leave estrodial perfectly un touched LOL

    When was last time that dr john had girls wanting to be as patience. I know the "cave" where come from is a male strip club where i used to work before getting sick LOL
    LOL I seen the part about birth control pills and such. Just put two and two together LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    LOL I seen the part about birth control pills and such. Just put two and two together LOL
    Better up that pregenolone bro a few 100 mgs LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1cc View Post
    Where are you currently applying the T Cream?
    Where did you buy your T Cream from and do you know what base they used by any chance?
    I have Dr Crislers 5% cream and tried some 10% I got from my UK Endo to try. I tried forearms , no absorbtion, read a book by Dr Hertoghe who says forehead and face and neck , all areas where people blush and also on sides, no good so far.
    the 1% gel I apply shoulders and biceps, absorb no problem, maybe I should try the 5% or 10% on shoulders and biceps, although it is supposed to be harder to absorb in thicker skin areas like shoulders?. When you apply your 10% (I think I read you use it) when do you apply it and how often, also when do you feel it kicking in after applying?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Ainslie View Post
    I have Dr Crislers 5% cream and tried some 10% I got from my UK Endo to try. I tried forearms , no absorbtion, read a book by Dr Hertoghe who says forehead and face and neck , all areas where people blush and also on sides, no good so far.
    the 1% gel I apply shoulders and biceps, absorb no problem, maybe I should try the 5% or 10% on shoulders and biceps, although it is supposed to be harder to absorb in thicker skin areas like shoulders?. When you apply your 10% (I think I read you use it) when do you apply it and how often, also when do you feel it kicking in after applying?
    If after 2 weeks and then restest and then increasing the dosages nothing happens goto shoots. May be adding hcg in might give you a boost, but let dr john be the one telling you that he is the dr NOT US..
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Ainslie View Post
    I have Dr Crislers 5% cream and tried some 10% I got from my UK Endo to try. I tried forearms , no absorbtion, read a book by Dr Hertoghe who says forehead and face and neck , all areas where people blush and also on sides, no good so far.
    the 1% gel I apply shoulders and biceps, absorb no problem, maybe I should try the 5% or 10% on shoulders and biceps, although it is supposed to be harder to absorb in thicker skin areas like shoulders?. When you apply your 10% (I think I read you use it) when do you apply it and how often, also when do you feel it kicking in after applying?
    Try the hairless inner bicep area which is what I use, or you can try the hairless inner forearm area. The skin is very thin there. I use a very tiny amount of cream which is easy to apply to the inner bicep of 1 bicep. I alternate biceps every day. I use 1/4 of 1 gram of 100mg per gram T Cream, which works out to 25mg of T. I apply the cream every morning. I can feel the T "kick in" within about 30 minutes. Make sure that the area you will be applying cream to is cleansed the night before, from any previous application.

    If the T Cream you are using has been compounded using a "vanishing" cream base, then you can apply it as I described. If it is compounded using a faster absorbing base, then you would need to find out from the compounder or doctor where it is recommended to be applied.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1cc View Post
    Try the hairless inner bicep area which is what I use, or you can try the hairless inner forearm area. The skin is very thin there. I use a very tiny amount of cream which is easy to apply to the inner bicep of 1 bicep. I alternate biceps every day. I use 1/4 of 1 gram of 100mg per gram T Cream, which works out to 25mg of T. I apply the cream every morning. I can feel the T "kick in" within about 30 minutes. Make sure that the area you will be applying cream to is cleansed the night before, from any previous application.

    If the T Cream you are using has been compounded using a "vanishing" cream base, then you can apply it as I described. If it is compounded using a faster absorbing base, then you would need to find out from the compounder or doctor where it is recommended to be applied.

    Thanks for that view, 25mg is not much is it, I use 75mg or sometimes 100mg of the 1% Gel. I will try the biceps and forearms
  

  
 

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