Bilirubin

[bobbyn]

you guys know anything about bilirubin levels? mine is 237

bob

 

[T-Bone]

you guys know anything about bilirubin levels? mine is 237

bob

I don't think its 237, if it was you would be dead!. I do know a lot about it, thanks to my time in the hospital and Superdrol. Here is a link to a thread in which I posted my experience,

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/44963-superdrol-sides-4.html?highlight=Superdrol+Sides

My levels were off the charts, indicating that the liver was not working correctly(getting rid of toxins, digestion, and varios other functions).


You will have to scroll down a little bit to see my posts.

 

[bobbyn]

ahhhh yea...that was suposed to be 2.37 on a range of .20 - 1.5

glad i'm still alive )

will read yur story over the weekend...gota hit the rack..early up tommorow... i have quite a story myself....drug induced hep in the 80's. i'll share it next time i get on

bob

 

[hardasnails1973]

Yep your liver is trying to detoxify something. Probably copper or estrogen build up most likely. Check your uric acid levels and that could give you an indication indirect indication of your estrogen metabolsm indierctly. Uric acid reflect homocysteine levels and an indirec meassure of methylation of the liver. Sam-e will help reduce the bilirubin, but you need to look for the initial cause..

 

[jonny21]

What about your Liver Enzymes? GGT?

If you have been cycling Cholestasis is a possibility but hopefully you have a Physician involved at this point and he has ordered further testing, especially considering your PMH. Avoid seeking advice on forums regarding issues like these unless you are just doing it for fun. I love reading some of the responses to questions like these

Probably copper or estrogen build up most likely. Check your uric acid levels and that could give you an indication indirect indication of your estrogen metabolsm indierctly

Estrogen build up? How are uric acid levels an indicator of estrogen levels?

 

[hardasnails1973]

Estrogen build up? How are uric acid levels an indicator of estrogen levels?

In my cases and several others people
low uric acid > low molydneum> impairs sulfur oxidation (need for proper estrogen metabilism) > possible excess copper to build up > decrease homocysteine due to inappropiate estrogen metabolism shutting downt the methione synthase pathway and essential methyation process. Once this is shut down the pathway is redirected to transsulfuration cell. Since methylation of b-12/folate is shut down, as a back up the body begins to break down membranes releasing Arachondonic acid and phosphodyl choline will be choline to betaine via the BHMT pathways (this is what TMG prevents). Why dr john highlt recommends it. By adding TMG it acts as a saftey valve if the methylation process is altered or slowed down. My methyation process is competely shut down and to get the choline it needed it destroyed my cell membranes to get it as last resort. This was back up by several direct and indrect testing through RBC fatty acids to urine tests. If tmg is not used your body releases sarcosine which is the by product of TMG/DMG and that means your pissing away muscle. Ever hear of sarcopenia? . how do you prevent it folinic acid high dosages and b-2 will restabilize the pathways

Most autistc childern are severely undermethyated and have low homocystein levels (mine was at 3.9) which basically means my brain has no serotonin which is true because my
5hiaa metabolites, homocyateine, gaba in urine were not even measurable. Hypomethyation is when DNA replication gets altered and when mutations can occur. So haveing a low homocystein is just as bad as having a high one. 5-9 would be healthy ranges.

Beleive it or not how i gauge my estrogn levels it sounds crazy but when I was taking armidex many months ago I could tolerate gaba and when i stopped the armidex I because gaba senstive like I was before and with 250 mgs og gaba powder I would start hyper ventialiatin, and when i was on armidex i could take it and get no response. Theory being that estrogen lowers gaba production and there fore your sensitivity is increased as well.

 

[jonny21]

In my cases and several others people
low uric acid > low molydneum> impairs sulfur oxidation (need for proper estrogen metabilism) > possible excess copper to build up > decrease homocysteine due to inappropiate estrogen metabolism shutting downt the methione synthase pathway and essential methyation process. Once this is shut down the pathway is redirected to transsulfuration cell. Since methylation of b-12/folate is shut down, as a back up the body begins to break down membranes releasing Arachondonic acid and phosphodyl choline will be choline to betaine via the BHMT pathways (this is what TMG prevents). Why dr john highlt recommends it. By adding TMG it acts as a saftey valve if the methylation process is altered or slowed down. My methyation process is competely shut down and to get the choline it needed it destroyed my cell membranes to get it as last resort. This was back up by several direct and indrect testing through RBC fatty acids to urine tests. If tmg is not used your body releases sarcosine which is the by product of TMG/DMG and that means your pissing away muscle. Ever hear of sarcopenia? . how do you prevent it folinic acid high dosages and b-2 will restabilize the pathways

Most autistc childern are severely undermethyated and have low homocystein levels (mine was at 3.9) which basically means my brain has no serotonin which is true because my
5hiaa metabolites, homocyateine, gaba in urine were not even measurable. Hypomethyation is when DNA replication gets altered and when mutations can occur. So haveing a low homocystein is just as bad as having a high one. 5-9 would be healthy ranges.

Beleive it or not how i gauge my estrogn levels it sounds crazy but when I was taking armidex many months ago I could tolerate gaba and when i stopped the armidex I because gaba senstive like I was before and with 250 mgs og gaba powder I would start hyper ventialiatin, and when i was on armidex i could take it and get no response. Theory being that estrogen lowers gaba production and there fore your sensitivity is increased as well.

That does not answer the question.

 

[bobbyn]

everything else is in range...alt is 33 and ast is 18. i haven't been to my gp yet but wil make an appt this week. he'll probally sent me to a specialist cause he's not too bright....unless i only have a sore throat

bob

 

[bobbyn]

johhny21...

what is Cholestasis, PMH and GGT?

as i mentioned in the above post my alt and ast is ok. i've used some m1t but not since the middle of last summer. i had drug induced hepatitus 25 years ago and at the time billirubin was very high but i don't have any of those labs.

my most recent labs from dr john in jan show 2.39
if i look back at other labs, last summer my billi was only .88 with liver enzimes of ast 25 and alt 55...

in summer of 05 labs show a billi of 1.48 with an ast at 23 and alt at 38.

in spring of 05 labs show a billi of 1.29 with an ast at 60 and alt
at 120....definitly from thr m1t i took. with the enzime so high and the billi in range it looks like there's no connection with the 2??

then i do have an 04 test with a bili of 2.51 but ast/alt are way low

johnny 21...as far as taking advice...theres always alot of contridiction here...as on any forum. if i'm on a hotrod or motorcycle forum it's easy for me to seperate the facts from fiction...but i know very nothing about this stuff so no action will be taken without consulting dr john.. actually dr john refered me to my dr on this matter, i've been dragging my feet but hopefully i'll get to see him this week. thanks for the advice )

what do you think about those labs?

thanks for the input

bob

 

[jaydee]

I have had high billirubin for as far back as I can remember. My previous local GP said it was a sluggish liver. Phase 1 detoxification was overactive probably due to alcohol consumption (I tend to binge drink once a week), and caffeine consumption and so phase 2 was getting "clogged" up. Kind of like a bottle neck effect.

He put me on a few small doses of grapefruit juice daily to slow down phase 1 and Calcium D Glucarate to speed up phase 2. While he said this works on virtually every other patient, it did not work on me much to his frustration (and mine).

So I saw another doctor who is familiar with detoxification and he said straight out "high isolated elevated bilirubin means you are copper toxic". This was later backed up by a hair mineral analysis which showed copper toxicity by the ratios of various minerals in my hair sample.

I am currently on a detox program which is very custiomised and different for each person. So far I havnt noticed any improvement, but ive still got a few months to go before he said any noticeable change will happen.

The highest my Total bilirubin ever got was 70 umol/L with a ref range of 3 -20 while I was detoxing with the first doctor. I got that blood test done in the emergency room at a hospital because at that point I thought I was going to die. The nurse thought I had hepatitus C and sent me home to see my local doctor and then a liver specialist. I did and came back clear on both. My GP (first one) said that I was probably getting rid of a lot of toxins due to the detox and the billirubin is supposed to initialy go up. It has since come back down and the aim is get the billirubin back in range with my new doc and this should drastically improve my liver function and overal health.

So from I have been told, gilberts is not really "nothing to worry about" because it does effect your liver function and means your liver is functioning at less than optimum. And because your liver plays such an important role in your health, I would maybe look into it.

 

[jonny21]

johhny21...

what is Cholestasis, PMH and GGT?

Cholestasis= blockage of bile in liver or biliary tree. Possibly due to sludge or stones.
PMH= Past Medical History
GGT= Gamma-glutamyl transferase, Lab test used to detect liver or bile duct damage/injury.

I would leave further interpretation of your labs to your GI doctors.

 

[bobbyn]

Thanks for the replys...i'll be making an appt with my GP or GI tomorow
bob