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test results are in

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    test results are in


    No wonder i been feeling like crap !!
    With 10% testocreme on 3 hours prior before testing placed under the rib cage..

    total testosterone 308 ng/dl (241-827)
    albumin 4.7 ( 3.7 - 5.1)
    testosteorne free and weakly bounded 124 (84-402)
    testosterone free 58 ( 34- 194)
    sbhg 38 ( 5-49)
    estrodial is still not calculated yet
    albumin/globulin ratio 2.1 elevated
    Liporptein A 111 <75 I am concerned on this !!
    Cortisol AM 18.9 (good cortef is working)
    transferrin 193 188-341 (this concerns me since since copper is carried out of body via this and ceruoplasm)

    CRP <.10 lowest it can go
    ferritin 81 (20-345)
    saturation % 54 (0-50)
    inuslin 4 <17
    prolactin 9.9 2.0-18
    Uric acid is a little low (molydenum defiecincy possible from excessive copper, low vitamin C)


    thyroid - pending
    are there any signs of possible estrogen problem in here with out the estrodial being asset yet?

    Since being on cortisol for a while and not supplementing dhea is it possible that i couls have lowered by testosterone by lowering the amouint of DHEA being produced and the excessive ciortisol is eating up the testosterone from the gel ?
    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    No wonder i been feeling like crap !!
    With 10% testocreme on 3 hours prior before testing placed under the rib cage..

    total testosterone 308 ng/dl (241-827)
    albumin 4.7 ( 3.7 - 5.1)
    testosteorne free and weakly bounded 124 (84-402)
    testosterone free 58 ( 34- 194)
    sbhg 38 ( 5-49)

    estrodial is still not calculated yet
    albumin/globulin ratio 2.1 elevated
    Liporptein A 111 <75 I am concerned on this !!
    Cortisol AM 18.9 (good cortef is working)
    transferrin 193 188-341 (this concerns me since since copper is carried out of body via this and ceruoplasm)

    CRP <.10 lowest it can go
    ferritin 81 (20-345)
    saturation % 54 (0-50)
    inuslin 4 <17
    prolactin 9.9 2.0-18
    Uric acid is a little low (molydenum defiecincy possible from excessive copper, low vitamin C)


    thyroid - pending
    are there any signs of possible estrogen problem in here with out the estrodial being asset yet?

    Thanks
    You are high on SHBG(bad), low on T(bad), higher on Albumin (good).
    Double or tripple your does of T cream.
    What Tcream are you using, for how long?
    what is 10% T cream??
    Supposedly 100mg/1gram Tcream from womensintrenational
    is good, I started on it beginning of February.
    I put Tcream on my calf, wait 1/2 hour so it sinks in.
    It is much slower then Androgel, but I like more the application process, hope it works.
    Did not tested yet, but feel so-so, I changed other things so it is hard to say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    You are high on SHBG(bad), low on T(bad), higher on Albumin (good).
    Double or tripple your does of T cream.
    What Tcream are you using, for how long?
    what is 10% T cream??
    Supposedly 100mg/1gram Tcream from womensintrenational
    is good, I started on it beginning of February.
    Did not tested yet, but feel so-so, I changed other things so it is hard to say.
    I am on the same dosage you are
    100 mgs/ 1 gram
    Does elevated sbhg indicate that there could be possible estrogen excess going on or possible low dhea from the cortef I was taking. Dhea-s test are pending yet.

    Log In Problems

    So this would explain why i was so responsive to armidex many months back with hcg and 1.2 grams of t ceame

    Quote from swale

    Also, SHBG preferentially binds androgens over estrogens, with a spread of about 8%. Therefore rising SHBG causes more AND MORE T to be bound up, and a greater proportiuon of E left to do its dirty work. This leads to a condition known as "estrogen dominance", and is a real double-whammy of SHBG negative effects on mens' health.


    Table 3: SHBG levels in disease states
    Elevated:
    anorexia nervosa
    Hyperthyroidism
    Hypogonadism (males)
    Androgen insensitivity/deficiency
    Alcoholic hepatic cirrhosis (males)
    Estrogen dominance

    LDH levels are low and just found out that is needed to help metaboilze copper out of the body in the blood which isa zinc driven enzyme GO FIGURE..


    So it is my understanding if i bring shbg down via reducing estrogen or increasing dhea if indicated by testing results then this should bump up total and free test and bring estrogen back into balance?
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    I am on the same dosage you are
    100 mgs/ 1 gram
    Does elevated sbhg indicate that there could be possible estrogen excess going on or possible low dhea from the cortef I was taking. Dhea-s test are pending yet.

    Log In Problems

    So this would explain why i was so responsive to armidex many months back with hcg and 1.2 grams of t ceame

    Quote from swale

    Also, SHBG preferentially binds androgens over estrogens, with a spread of about 8%. Therefore rising SHBG causes more AND MORE T to be bound up, and a greater proportiuon of E left to do its dirty work. This leads to a condition known as "estrogen dominance", and is a real double-whammy of SHBG negative effects on mens' health.


    Table 3: SHBG levels in disease states
    Elevated:
    anorexia nervosa
    Hyperthyroidism
    Hypogonadism (males)
    Androgen insensitivity/deficiency
    Alcoholic hepatic cirrhosis (males)
    Estrogen dominance

    LDH levels are low and just found out that is needed to help metaboilze copper out of the body in the blood which isa zinc driven enzyme GO FIGURE..


    So it is my understanding if i bring shbg down via reducing estrogen or increasing dhea if indicated by testing results then this should bump up total and free test and bring estrogen back into balance?
    If you have the same Tcream as I do, what is your dose?
    Whatewer it is, increase it 3x
    I use one of their spoons daily, that is 1/4 of tea spoon.
    Actually I scrape sideways over the jar, to approximate 0.75 of that amount. I was taking at first 10gram, two packets of Androgel. That was giving me high TotalT, I felt better when I reduced to 1.5 packets. The amount of Tcream I am using approximate amount of testosterone I was happy with. Now i may be dealing with absorbability issues, but that is for my next blood test to figure.

    I came to conclusion that one just lives with whatewer SHBG it is. If yours is higher, you will need higher level of TotalTestosterone to achieve desired level of FreeT and BAT.
    But increase of TotalT cause increase of SHBG, so expect your SHBG to go even higher.

    Same with Tcream, use as much as you have to to get desired effect and to not over analyze, specially do not go for shots.
    -------------
    I got it somewhere and the link does not work anymore:

    Bodybuilding.com Forums
    RippedUp07-12-2004, 02:12 AM
    Originally posted by raybravo
    taken from mass monsterz :
    Not many options when it comes to trying to lower SHBG levels
    Supplements that lower SHBG:
    =-Proviron
    =-GH
    =-Avena Sativa Extract/Green oat that contains Avenacosidas-supposedly there is none of this product out on the market that shows that it works.
    =-Carao Extract-Theory only-has not been proven yet
    =-Urtica dioica aka Stinging nettle
    =-Muira Puama
    Clomid and Nolvadex increas SHBG levels.
    How good is HGH at lowering SHBG levels? Any idea?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    If you have the same Tcream as I do, what is your dose?
    Whatewer it is, increase it 3x
    I use one of their spoons daily, that is 1/4 of tea spoon.
    Actually I scrape sideways over the jar, to approximate 0.75 of that amount. I was taking at first 10gram, two packets of Androgel. That was giving me high TotalT, I felt better when I reduced to 1.5 packets. The amount of Tcream I am using approximate amount of testosterone I was happy with. Now i may be dealing with absorbability issues, but that is for my next blood test to figure.

    I came to conclusion that one just lives with whatewer SHBG it is. If yours is higher, you will need higher level of TotalTestosterone to achieve desired level of FreeT and BAT.
    But increase of TotalT cause increase of SHBG, so expect your SHBG to go even higher.

    Before experimenting with dim i am going to increase zinc to 100 mgs per day for a few days to see if erections come back. i do not want to expereimnt with DIm, armidex. hcg untill I speak to dr john and my own dr..



    Before experimenting with dim i am going to increase zinc to 100 mgs per day for a few days to see if erections come back. i do not want to expereimnt with DIm, armidex. hcg untill I speak to dr john and my own dr..

    Same with Tcream, use as much as you have to to get desired effect and to not over analyze, specially do not go for shots.
    -------------
    I got it somewhere and the link does not work anymore:

    Bodybuilding.com Forums
    RippedUp07-12-2004, 02:12 AM
    Originally posted by raybravo
    taken from mass monsterz :
    Not many options when it comes to trying to lower SHBG levels
    Supplements that lower SHBG:
    =-Proviron
    =-GH
    =-Avena Sativa Extract/Green oat that contains Avenacosidas-supposedly there is none of this product out on the market that shows that it works.
    =-Carao Extract-Theory only-has not been proven yet
    =-Urtica dioica aka Stinging nettle
    =-Muira Puama
    Clomid and Nolvadex increas SHBG levels.
    How good is HGH at lowering SHBG levels? Any idea?

    Yes they are very good points but again we need to go bad to root cause contaminated food containing 8 different bacterial infections Ecoli being one of them. last year I tested positive for ecoli again and its probably still there, but no dr will listen to me (atleast till this new one)

    food born bacteria infection(scromboid posisoning -> increases histamines from bacterial endotoxins)> increasesd adrenals decreased thyroid conversion t4 to t3 as indicated on labs reports > not treated properly over time adrenals fatigued> copper build up zinc depeltion> lead to undermethylation of the liver> liver can not process estrogen properly > causes elevated shbg /lowered testosterone and free testosterone/ low homocystein leves as well as other indicators for increased stroke (lipoprotein A elevatioin)

    Added cortef to increae cortisol via salvia testing. Over time dr never checked dhea which was low to begin with via blood
    200 ng/dl with extra added cortisol this suppressed immunne system and did not have DHEA to counteract its catabolic effects leading into immune suppression further causing more problems.

    Need to identify the bacteria through stool sampling and treat that this will lower the histmaines and reduce copper and estrogen imbalances and should remove stress off the adrenals/thyroi should be restored and decrease the rt3

    Before experimenting with dim i am going to increase zinc to 100 mgs per day for a few days to see if erections come back. i do not want to expereimnt with DIm, armidex. hcg untill I speak to dr john and my own dr..

    Still need to see the esterone and estrodial, dhea, dht, serum copper, homoccystein lab results

    Lets say if this is just estrogen domiance then no matter what testosterone they give me its only going to increase estrogen even more until the excessive estrogen is identified correct
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    When I add 5mgs 4 x's a day of cortef my total and free T levels went way up. And my DHEA went over the top of the range. I was doing 25mgs of DHEA 2 x's a day we cut back to 1 x's a day. We cut my HCG down from 400 IU's the 2 days each in between my every 3 days T shot to 250 IU's the day before my next shot. When I got my E2 down my Free T went way up near the top of the range and my SHBG went down to about 22.
    I would not change anything with out your Dr. blessings and don't do 100mgs of Zinc.
    Phil
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    I know i am still waiting on the results for dhea, I have been on cortef for a while, but my previous dr never checked my dhea levels. If my hunch is correct I have several indirect indicators of low dhea on other tests and it even mentioned dhea therapy but it was never implimented. My cortisol serum came back 18.9 which is excellent but with out the dhea i was never prtected from the catabolic effects of the cortisol. Muscle wasting, and preventng decline in free testosterone which would possible increase estrogen levels. DAmn weather sucks here !! holding up lab results..
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post

    Before experimenting with dim i am going to increase zinc to 100 mgs per day for a few days to see if erections come back. i do not want to expereimnt with DIm, armidex. hcg untill I speak to dr john and my own dr..
    Still need to see the esterone and estrodial, dhea, dht, serum copper, homoccystein lab results
    I suggest that when you see a doctor you should be able to tell him:
    I did this, this and that (food, drinks, supplements, drugs, injections, pills, creams, tonics, colonics, inhalers, etc.) and nothing else for the last six weeks.
    Every day I was following that protocol to the T.
    So, now I am ready for a blood and other tests to get my base-line. I will not do anything else except what you, doctor, will tell me after you see my blood, urine and other prescribed test results. And I will do this new procedure with out any alteration or second guessing. Plese write it down for me (medicine, supplements, brand names dosages etc) so I can check on it when in doubt.
    Doctor I am giving you six months time, to see if you way is working for me.
    I will figure how I am doing by my personal self assesment.
    I may then say good bye to you but at present time I think you are the best, and I have to give you fair chance to help me.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I suggest that when you see a doctor you should be able to tell him:
    I did this, this and that (food, drinks, supplements, drugs, injections, pills, creams, tonics, colonics, inhalers, etc.) and nothing else for the last six weeks.
    Every day I was following my protocol.
    So, now I am ready for a blood test to get my base-line. I will not do anything else except what you, doctor, will tell me after you see my blood, urine and other prescribed test results. And I will do this new procedure with out any alteration or second guessing. Plese write it down for me so I can check on it when in doubt.
    Doctor I am giving you six months time, to see if you way is working for me.
    ----------------------------------------------------------

    I know this new dr is awesome its just that test come back snail mail and he knows what I went through with drs and not to sound like a ass, but I you have to stay on him or you just fall to the waste side. I went through 6 weeks of hell to get a true baseline reading and in the process almost ended up lossing my gf because of the severe depression I was going though. All varaible have been identical day and day out nothing has changed. Next time I see him we need stool, leaky gut, bacterial breath test done to see if I still have residual ecoli infection in me that could be causing havoc as well as causing estrogen metabolism problems due to lack of good bacteria. MY theory by eradicating the ecoli and rebulding good bacteria it will swtich the estrogen metabolism to more effiency and alleviate alterations in estrogen problems which where hidden untill I started reading about good and bad estrogen, This brings to point that people that respond to DIM are undermethylators and also have some kind of degree of dysbiosis as well despite normal estodial levels..
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    I know i am still waiting on the results for dhea, I have been on cortef for a while, but my previous dr never checked my dhea levels. If my hunch is correct I have several indirect indicators of low dhea on other tests and it even mentioned dhea therapy but it was never implimented. My cortisol serum came back 18.9 which is excellent but with out the dhea i was never prtected from the catabolic effects of the cortisol. Muscle wasting, and preventng decline in free testosterone which would possible increase estrogen levels. DAmn weather sucks here !! holding up lab results..
    You can't get a good test on cortisol when on cortef.
    Phil
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    I know this new dr is awesome its just that test come back snail mail and he knows what I went through with drs and not to sound like a ass, but I you have to stay on him or you just fall to the waste side. I went through 6 weeks of hell to get a true baseline reading and in the process almost ended up lossing my gf because of the severe depression I was going though. All varaible have been identical day and day out nothing has changed. Next time I see him we need stool, leaky gut, bacterial breath test done to see if I still have residual ecoli infection in me that could be causing havoc as well as causing estrogen metabolism problems due to lack of good bacteria. MY theory by eradicating the ecoli and rebulding good bacteria it will swtich the estrogen metabolism to more effiency and alleviate alterations in estrogen problems which where hidden untill I started reading about good and bad estrogen, This brings to point that people that respond to DIM are undermethylators and also have some kind of degree of dysbiosis as well despite normal estodial levels..
    I feel you pain.
    Just remember, you are first, gf is second no mater how good she is.
    ============================== ===============
    One more thing. When really I need surgery for my supraspinatus I was sweet/dum talked (by nice girl) in to seeing holistic doctor who waisted 6 months of my time by massaging and doing accupunctures.

    No mather how sick, you need to have enough common sense to get to the right doctor. If you put a miss matched team of different helpers (MD, osteopath, nature) you are going to get hurt not help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    You can't get a good test on cortisol when on cortef.
    Phil
    I tried to come off it and I completely crash even tapering down slwoly. I did not take it before the test..
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I feel you pain.
    Just remember, you are first, gf is second no mater how good she is.
    ============================== ===============
    One more thing. When really I need surgery for my supraspinatus I was sweet/dum talked (by nice girl) in to seeing holistic doctor who waisted 6 months of my time by massaging and doing accupunctures.

    No mather how sick, you need to have enough common sense to get to the right doctor. If you put a miss matched team of different helpers (MD, osteopath, nature) you are going to get hurt not help.

    i learn to stick with one dr and This one is willing to run what ever test is necessary to find out what is going on. My core of my problem is my dybiosis and has been from the start verfied by stool and urine tests and the dybiosis has altered the estrogen metabolsm due to lacking proper bacterial flora, my bifoobacteria are completely gone and have been for almost 2 years despite no follwoing up when ecoli was identifed +4 on too seperate tests. Drs did not treatment or no follow up and if it was +4 that no telling how high it is because thats the highest it goes and the altered estrogen metabolism caused copper back up. On girl i was with when she kissed me she tasted metal in my salvia. i never made the connection untill trying to raise copper levels and getting results back that copper sreum never even moved on 6 mgs for 40 days with lower zinc content. I know its estrogen because I felt the same way one time before when taking clomid. I was an emotional mess for a week till i figured out what it was ESTROGEN.. I am very intuned with my body becauise give me tribestan and I would put on 15-20 lbs in 8 weeks. I think i am even more estrogen sensitive.

    in order for me to gt better
    1. need to identify the intestial pathogen treat it with what ever means
    2. replenish flora when it has been taken care off
    3. choke off estrogn metabolism till body rebalnces

    I had hidden estrogen domaince due to alteration in the intestinal flora from food born infection never properly treated




    found this statement interesting from marianco

    "He has had difficulty with transdermal testosterone creams. Possibly because of skin type (perhaps having good skin hydration), the initial use of a high potency, 10% PLO-based testosterone cream (which is essentially oil-based), actually reduced testosterone levels, even at high doses (2-4) grams a day. In analyzing the results, it seemed that only a small amount of testosterone was absorbed and was disproportionally transformed to DHT. The DHT gave negative feedback to the hypothalamus and reduced his native testicular testosterone production, resulting in an overall reduction in testosterone level. His libido, as expected, was worse on the cream" Possible people with adrenal fatigue may have skin dehyration and not absorbed the creame in plo gel as effectively as another base !!
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    I found this statement interesting from marianco

    "He has had difficulty with transdermal testosterone creams. Possibly because of skin type (perhaps having good skin hydration), the initial use of a high potency, 10% PLO-based testosterone cream (which is essentially oil-based), actually reduced testosterone levels, even at high doses (2-4) grams a day. In analyzing the results, it seemed that only a small amount of testosterone was absorbed and was disproportionally transformed to DHT. The DHT gave negative feedback to the hypothalamus and reduced his native testicular testosterone production, resulting in an overall reduction in testosterone level. His libido, as expected, was worse on the cream" Possible people with adrenal fatigue may have skin dehyration and not absorbed the creame in plo gel as effectively as another base !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post

    I had hidden estrogen domaince due to alteration in the intestinal flora from food born infection never properly treated!
    I am not sure where you live, if outside of USA this may help you, or at least may be worth investigation.
    At one time LEF had a statements in their TRT for men, stating that the best AI is MEPARTICIN.
    The second choice was Arimidex, never heard them recomending DIM when complaining of estrogen problem, unti I came to this board.
    Meparticin is not available in USA, it is Italian herbal product.
    --------------------------------------
    Cannot locate maufacturer now, but link to read latter
    Stephen Hirsch, MD, PC - Urologist - Rockville Centre, NY - Enlarged Prostate/BPH Treatment
    ============================== ==============
    Entrez PubMed

    The effects induced by oral administration of 0, 5 and 20 mg of meparticin kg(-1)of body weight for 28 days (group 1, 2 and 3, respectively) upon prostatic estrogen, androgen, alpha(1)- and beta-adrenergic receptor concentrations and on estradiol and testosterone serum levels in adult male rats were studied. The effects produced by mepartricin treatments on the weight and dimension of the gland were investigated. Both mepartricin dosages induced significant decreases (P< 0.05) of the absolute and relative weights and of the dimensions of the prostate. A significant dose-dependent decrease (P< 0.05) in estradiol serum levels was observed in treated rats, whereas no significant modifications were found in testosterone serum levels. As far as prostatic steroid receptor concentrations were concerned, a significant (P< 0.05) decrease in estrogen receptor number was observed in both treated groups, whilst a significant increase (P< 0.05) of androgen receptor concentrations was recorded only in rats treated with 20 mg mepartricin kg(-1). Conversely, a dose-dependent up-regulation of both prostatic alpha(1)- and beta-AR was found. Data obtained suggest that the prostatic alpha(1)-AR expression may be strongly influenced by estrogen deprivation (mepartricin treatment), therefore the combination of estrogen suppression (mepartricin) and adrenergic suppression (alpha(1)-AR blockers) may be suggested as a possible pharmacotherapeutic strategy for the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia. Copyright 2001 Academic Press.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I am not sure where you live, if outside of USA this may help you, or at least may be worth investigation.
    At one time LEF had a statements in their TRT for men, stating that the best AI is MEPARTICIN.
    The second choice was Arimidex, never heard them recomending DIM when complaining of estrogen problem, unti I came to this board.
    Meparticin is not available in USA, it is Italian herbal product.
    --------------------------------------
    Cannot locate maufacturer now, but link to read latter
    Stephen Hirsch, MD, PC - Urologist - Rockville Centre, NY - Enlarged Prostate/BPH Treatment
    ============================== ==============
    Entrez PubMed

    The effects induced by oral administration of 0, 5 and 20 mg of meparticin kg(-1)of body weight for 28 days (group 1, 2 and 3, respectively) upon prostatic estrogen, androgen, alpha(1)- and beta-adrenergic receptor concentrations and on estradiol and testosterone serum levels in adult male rats were studied. The effects produced by mepartricin treatments on the weight and dimension of the gland were investigated. Both mepartricin dosages induced significant decreases (P< 0.05) of the absolute and relative weights and of the dimensions of the prostate. A significant dose-dependent decrease (P< 0.05) in estradiol serum levels was observed in treated rats, whereas no significant modifications were found in testosterone serum levels. As far as prostatic steroid receptor concentrations were concerned, a significant (P< 0.05) decrease in estrogen receptor number was observed in both treated groups, whilst a significant increase (P< 0.05) of androgen receptor concentrations was recorded only in rats treated with 20 mg mepartricin kg(-1). Conversely, a dose-dependent up-regulation of both prostatic alpha(1)- and beta-AR was found. Data obtained suggest that the prostatic alpha(1)-AR expression may be strongly influenced by estrogen deprivation (mepartricin treatment), therefore the combination of estrogen suppression (mepartricin) and adrenergic suppression (alpha(1)-AR blockers) may be suggested as a possible pharmacotherapeutic strategy for the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia. Copyright 2001 Academic Press.

    Thanks also if you are sensitive to estrogen if the stuff is in soy bean based would that increase estrogen it self since its going directly into the skin to?
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    This herbal drug is advertised to fight BPH ,
    but it is doing so by lovering estrogen.

    The link contains a picture of the drug.

    ============================== =============
    Ipertrofan 40®

    Brand Ipertrofan® 40 / Iperplasin® 40
    Active Principle Mepartricin
    Indication Treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia. Once a day administration

    Presentations 40 mg x 30 tablets
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    This herbal drug is advertised to fight BPH ,
    but it is doind so by lovering estrogen.

    The link contains a picture of the drug.

    ============================== =============
    Ipertrofan 40®

    Brand Ipertrofan® 40 / Iperplasin® 40
    Active Principle Mepartricin
    Indication Treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia. Once a day administration

    Presentations 40 mg x 30 tablets
    i never knew they have so many drugs if my blood test results come back I can assure a devation in DHT and estrogen I am sure..more so lack of dht would make the shbg increase nearly double from basline reading. Results where not in today said tommorrow UGH
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    I tried to come off it and I completely crash even tapering down slwoly. I did not take it before the test..
    If your on Cortef or HC you need to come off it dam slow so your adrenals can come back on board. So lower there dose 2.5 mgs every 2 or 3 weeks then they need to be off it for 2 weeks before testing.
    Read Safe Uses for Cortisol by Jefferies.
    Phil
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    after 4 weeks the drs finally got off there lazy asses and called quest to get the lab results faxed mean while I have to sit and wonder wtf is going on with me.

    Prengenlone was 20 0-200 no wonder I been a moody SOB and can not remember crap, anxiety. This just tells me my thyroid is still wacked. Can you have elevated estrogen with low pregnenlone levels?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    after 4 weeks the drs finally got off there lazy asses and called quest to get the lab results faxed mean while I have to sit and wonder wtf is going on with me.

    Prengenlone was 20 0-200 no wonder I been a moody SOB and can not remember crap, anxiety. This just tells me my thyroid is still wacked. Can you have elevated estrogen with low pregnenlone levels?
    I think all men tested for Prengenlone are low just can't get a good test on men for this. We stopped testing it and only test Progesterone to be sure it does not go to high on HCG.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I am not sure where you live, if outside of USA this may help you, or at least may be worth investigation.
    At one time LEF had a statements in their TRT for men, stating that the best AI is MEPARTICIN.
    The second choice was Arimidex, never heard them recomending DIM when complaining of estrogen problem, unti I came to this board.
    Meparticin is not available in USA, it is Italian herbal product.
    --------------------------------------
    Cannot locate maufacturer now, but link to read latter
    Stephen Hirsch, MD, PC - Urologist - Rockville Centre, NY - Enlarged Prostate/BPH Treatment
    ============================== ==============
    Entrez PubMed

    The effects induced by oral administration of 0, 5 and 20 mg of meparticin kg(-1)of body weight for 28 days (group 1, 2 and 3, respectively) upon prostatic estrogen, androgen, alpha(1)- and beta-adrenergic receptor concentrations and on estradiol and testosterone serum levels in adult male rats were studied. The effects produced by mepartricin treatments on the weight and dimension of the gland were investigated. Both mepartricin dosages induced significant decreases (P< 0.05) of the absolute and relative weights and of the dimensions of the prostate. A significant dose-dependent decrease (P< 0.05) in estradiol serum levels was observed in treated rats, whereas no significant modifications were found in testosterone serum levels. As far as prostatic steroid receptor concentrations were concerned, a significant (P< 0.05) decrease in estrogen receptor number was observed in both treated groups, whilst a significant increase (P< 0.05) of androgen receptor concentrations was recorded only in rats treated with 20 mg mepartricin kg(-1). Conversely, a dose-dependent up-regulation of both prostatic alpha(1)- and beta-AR was found. Data obtained suggest that the prostatic alpha(1)-AR expression may be strongly influenced by estrogen deprivation (mepartricin treatment), therefore the combination of estrogen suppression (mepartricin) and adrenergic suppression (alpha(1)-AR blockers) may be suggested as a possible pharmacotherapeutic strategy for the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia. Copyright 2001 Academic Press.
    Taking mepartricin on an ongoing basis as an AI could be a problem - it is an antifungal antibiotic. Long-term use of antibiotics is generally a bad idea.
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    Since being off the HCG for 4 months my balls have completely shrug from how full they were. Symptoms of excessive estrogen have been getting worse most likely to due to lack of progesterone that the hcg was giving my body. There was a drastic drop in progesterine from 1.2 to .5 and question is how much of that is really free because estrogen cn be jamming that up as well. Thank God only another week or so then I will know what was going on, Thanks guys I had to drop down the dosage from100 mgs to 50 mgs a day of tcreame because I could not even piss and it hurt so bad. When I went to get the ultra sound on prostrate when she push on it it really was sore. Atleast now I can piss again with no problem of burning sensation or dribbling coming out. Now hopefuly these dr will start to see that it was not even in my head but rather in the estrogen imbalance hidden for 3 years. Having high estrogen/testosterone one thing but not being able to detoxify it is even more dangerous !! and that is what I am wiating to see just how out of balance I am !! Doing the 3 tsp fish oils now and sam-e, TMG till I get the Urine tests. Hopefully if my hypothesis is correct the balancing out the inflammatory fats with the fish oils may all i need to be to bring body estrogen metabolism back to balance. I do not want to mess with DIM till I know what is going on through urine test

    This can not be all in my head after lowering the dose of t creame to 50 mgs I went to call my girlfreind today and she could not recongnize my voice it was so deep? Could this because lowering the dosage reduced the elevated DHT levels and allowed for more testosterine tobe freed up. Also to the area I am applying to is like less then area of a coke can verses the huge area of before. With the T gel do you have to worry about the large area as well as the dht conversion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    Taking mepartricin on an ongoing basis as an AI could be a problem - it is an antifungal antibiotic. Long-term use of antibiotics is generally a bad idea.
    I did not realized that it was antibiotic. I thought it was herbal product. Possibly that was a reason big pharma did not get interested in it, (guessing).

    OTOH the claim is that this product is able to lower the Estradiol and prostate size, I do not think other products are doing this so selectively. Just because of this two claims meparticin looks like priceless product to me.

    Why nobody is pursuing it?
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