Listen To This Crap!!!

[mikandrea]

I have been on test. cyp HRT for about 8 weeks now (after 2 weeks of failed Androgel ). My GP tried to send me to an endo. for help, but the endo. was not in touch with HRT (actually wanted me to stop after being on it for 5 weeks and had no clue that hCG is used for HRT!!!). My GP and I agreed to have Dr. John act as a consultant and my GP would prescribe the meds. Well, after spending the $300 consultation fee (out-of-pocket) and money on bloodwork, Dr. John wanted to add in hCG and Arimidex (my E2 = 41). While I was heading out the door to pick up my prescriptions on Saturday morning, my GP called my house. He backed out of adding in this treatment for fear that he will lose his license for prescribing a "breast cancer drug for women" for a man. He also said that he couldn't understand why hCG would be prescridbed (obviously, he didn't read the published research I gave him at the end of November). What the f%$k!!! Instead of my doc reading what these meds are used for, he decided to bail on the whole thing. So, I'm now out $300 and have the doses of the 2 meds I need to start feeling better with no sensible way to get them. Now, the only way I may be able to get them is to fly to Michigan to have Dr. John admit me as a patient into his practice, then write out the scripts. This doc screwed me!!! I could've used the $300 to fly out to MI in the first place. Now, instead of spending $400 for the total office visit to Dr. John, I'm going to probably wind up spending 2x that amount now (Dr. John, I'm not questioning the value, only that the expense has now doubled!!!). I emailed my doc the paper on hCG (again), as well as, references on Arimidex
(7 different studies & websites with info.) and its uses for men, but I think its probably a lost cause. So, for all of you out there on hCG and Arimidex, count your blessings because some docs just don't get it (or want to take the time to understand it). Imagine if every doc in the world bailed on something when they were challenged...we'd never advance in our treatment of any ailment!!! It truly was a sad day, because the carrot that was dangling in front of me has been pulled away. Also, because I just lost respect for my GP of 5 years. Faced with the choice of learning about something or running away, he chose to run away. Any thoughts on how to convince my GP to change his mind? Thanks for listening to me vent.

Mike

 

[ItsHectic]

Ive been going through this sort of crap for the past 4 months, not just with HRT treatment but with medical things in general.
Find an anti-aging doctor you will have better luck with them.

 

[jaydee]

Yup. I am having the same issues with my local doctors. I dont have any real advice on what you should do, but I do understand your frustration. Its the price you pay for cutting edge medicine I guess.

Ive never known a doctor that has been pursuaded into prescribing a drug though, once he has firmly said "no". i would cut your loses and take Itshectic's advice and keep looking for an anti-aging doctor that will work with Dr John, or go straight to Dr John himself. Im guessing your in the US?

 

[pmgamer18]

I don't know what kind of Drug care you have but here is what I would do go to the Drug store and ask if HCG and Arimidex is covered for the treatment of low testosterone. You will find out it is ask the guy to call your Dr. and tell him this.

Or just call your Drug care program and ask them if it's coverd.
Phil

 

[spinn]

I would run from this dr....he should be paying you.

Is he?

 

[JanSz]

It's a doggoned rotten shame. Thi sis the first time a physician has agreed ot consult with me, then refused my recommendations. We have to all realize, however, that is his right to do so. But he expressed nothing but appreciation and interest to me. Your disappointment sure is understandable.

I would have been happy to explain everything to him, as I have so many times.

The only expense you actually are out is whatever you paid him. My fees are the same either way--even though it takes me waaaaay more time to serve on a consultations basis.

The number one use for Arimidex in the world today is treating adult males.
Saying "HCG is a for fertility only" is like saying it is only for killing rabbits (get it?).

In both cases, the astute physician must simply consider the mode of action.

They should start making smaller dose pills.

 

[mikandrea]

Dr. John and everyone else that has posted/replied,
I set up an appointment with my doc tomorrow. I sent him quite a bit of research through email. However, I don't want to wait for him to read through it (I gave him the hCG paper in November, so I know that it will NOT be high-priority). So, I scheduled an appointment so he could do it on my dime and I printed out various resources on Arimidex and hCG with the key points highlighted. I'll keep you all posted on the results tomorrow. Hopefully, it'll get settled because I leave for vacation this week for 2 weeks and would like to have my meds in order. Thanks for all advice.

Mike

 

[SoMdHunter]

I'm afraid my Urologist may tell me the same thing your GP told you. I'll find out this Friday when I go to see him.

 

[ItsHectic]

They should start making smaller dose pills.

Its not approved for any other uses other then breast cancer, so although its upto a doctors discretion to prescribe drugs for off-label use, the pharmacutical company doesnt recognise this, and to protect themselves legally they wouldnt recomend it even though they most probly know it works in men.

I think the best thing to do is try get liquidex (imported), I know in Australia you can request special permission from the TGA to import substances such as pregnenelone, DHEA etc, even dianabol and anadrol, as long as you have a script for it.

 

[mikandrea]

The sad part is that Arimidex works to lower serum estradiol in PEOPLE. Although it was approved for women, there are research studies that show it also works for men. I'm bringing one of those references to my doc's office this morning.

Mike

 

[mikandrea]

I had my appointment with my GP this morning (with research articles in hand). After 20 minutes of going back-and-forth, he agreed to let me perform a 1-month "trial" of hCG and Arimidex. I picked up the prescriptions this afternoon. Funny enough, my insurance covered the Arimidex except for a $30 co-pay, but I had to pay $42 per Novarel pack (was not covered). The doc states that he will see what happens in 30-days via bloodwork and he'll have more time to investigate these meds and get all of his questions answered from Dr. John. Thanks to all that responded. It just goes to show that persistence and knowledge on this topic as a patient go a long way (or at least a month's worth of meds )


Mike

 

[hulkster]

yo!

 

[ItsHectic]

Dr. John, Why is it that doctors and even pharmacists are educated in knowledge of drugs and what they do yet they dont even consider the usage of arimidex in males, I have a cousin who is a doctor and I can name any drug or even suppliment which comes up in a google search or off the top of my head by brand name or chemical name and he will tell me what it does how it works, side effects, interactions and dosage, hes like a walking library and he only has a degree in medical science, so I would assume doctors should all know to use arimidex, its baffling.
Doesnt the AACE look over things like this and say "wow look at all the gyno cases from TRT, well I guess we better impliment anastrozole"
Aparently one of my local doctors patients has been on TRT and he had gyno, wich hes had 2 operations for, and my doctor put him on arimidex, and he had seen 10 endos who all did nothing.

 

[JanSz]

The sad part is that Arimidex works to lower serum estradiol in PEOPLE. Although it was approved for women, there are research studies that show it also works for men. I'm bringing one of those references to my doc's office this morning.

Mike

Post links to those references.

 

[JanSz]

I had my appointment with my GP this morning (with research articles in hand). After 20 minutes of going back-and-forth, he agreed to let me perform a 1-month "trial" of hCG and Arimidex. I picked up the prescriptions this afternoon. Funny enough, my insurance covered the Arimidex except for a $30 co-pay, but I had to pay $42 per Novarel pack (was not covered). The doc states that he will see what happens in 30-days via bloodwork and he'll have more time to investigate these meds and get all of his questions answered from Dr. John. Thanks to all that responded. It just goes to show that persistence and knowledge on this topic as a patient go a long way (or at least a month's worth of meds )


Mike

Good price.
Name pharmacy where you got Novarel.

 

[ItsHectic]

Post links to those references.

Treatment of testosterone-induced gynecomastia with the aromatase inhibitor, anastrozole
Entrez PubMed

Prepubertal gynecomastia in Peutz-Jeghers syndrome: incomplete penetrance in a familial case and management with an aromatase inhibitor.
Entrez PubMed

Anastrozole improved testosterone-induced impairment acquisition of spatial learning and memory in the hippocampal CA1 region in adult male rats.
Entrez PubMed

In People and Rats

 

[mikandrea]

JanSZ,
This was the biggest reference. Despite me not fitting into the "elderly" category (I'm 37), my test levels were below that of the inclusion criteria.

Effects of Aromatase Inhibition in Elderly Men with Low or Borderline-Low Serum Testosterone Levels -- Leder et al. 89 (3): 1174 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

The pharmacy was a local pharmacy near Minneapolis owned by Fairview Hospitals.

Mike

 

[cpeil2]

but I had to pay $42 per Novarel pack (was not covered).

If you have the time and the inclination, you might be able to file a grievance to get them to cover the hCG.

The rationale for denying coverage is that hCG is a fertility treatment, and insurance usually excludes such.


However, the package insert specifically says that hCG is also approved for treatment of hypogonadism.


Occasionally, people have gotten their insurance to cover hCG.

 

[KSman]

I had my appointment with my GP this morning (with research articles in hand). After 20 minutes of going back-and-forth, he agreed to let me perform a 1-month "trial" of hCG and Arimidex. I picked up the prescriptions this afternoon. Funny enough, my insurance covered the Arimidex except for a $30 co-pay, but I had to pay $42 per Novarel pack (was not covered). The doc states that he will see what happens in 30-days via bloodwork and he'll have more time to investigate these meds and get all of his questions answered from Dr. John. Thanks to all that responded. It just goes to show that persistence and knowledge on this topic as a patient go a long way (or at least a month's worth of meds )


Mike

How many IUs was that Novarel. non rHCG is $16.25 for 10,000 iu at Sam's Club IF you have a business membership.

 

[KSman]

Saying "HCG is a for fertility only" is like saying it is only for killing rabbits (get it?).

Old school pregnancy tests would inject female rabbits with the urine of [suspected] pregnant women as a pregnancy test. The HCG from the pregnancy is in the urine and the HCG made the ovaries of the rabbit explode. The term "the rabbit died" used to be a way of telling someone that they were pregnant. So rabbits used to be raised and sold for this purpose. Now we have home pregnancy tests and all of the guys on HCG could test positive for pregnancy if they thought that that was a really fun thing to do.

Today, maybe you did not want to know, non-recombinant HGC, as opposed to rHCG, is made from urine of pregnant women. (No they are not pregnant crack whores.) The processing must be quite exotic to extract the HCG peptide and nothing else of potential danger. And they do all of that very cheaply and make a profit too.

 

[ItsHectic]

Now we have home pregnancy tests and all of the guys on HCG could test positive for pregnancy if they thought that that was a really fun thing to do.

That would be a cool party trick.


So what is rHCG?

Isnt there real LH and FSH on the market derived in the same way?

 

[KSman]

That would be a cool party trick.


So what is rHCG?

Isnt there real LH and FSH on the market derived in the same way?

rHCG is HCG made with recombinant technology using yeast or bacterial. This removes any issues of contamination from human/animal sources.

 

[mikandrea]

Cpeil and Dr. John,
Thanks for the tip. Called my insurance co. As it turns out, my doc did not call in a pre-authorization for the hCG. Because of that, it got denied. However, if my doc fills out the pre-auth, it will be covered and I'll only have to pay $10 (much better than $42)!!! Also, I found out that I paid too much for my test cyp. The pharmacist entered it in for infertility (huh?). Therefore, it also was denied. I should have only paid $15 instead of $80. So, again guys, thanks for the tip. It'll take a lot of time and paperwork, but I should be able to recover about $120. Plus, it'll save me in the future (and no, I won't give you a cut, so don't ask ).

Mike