Does HRT eventually signal the Adrenals to Halt DHEA production?
- 02-17-2007, 09:29 AM
Does HRT eventually signal the Adrenals to Halt DHEA production?
The logic I'm trying to verify is that; since HRT provides the body with Testosterone externally, why would the adrenals keep on producing DHEA at normal levels?? It's obvious that HRT halts LH and FSH production for abvious reasons.. But, isnt' it obvious that DHEA production would follow the same destiny also?
- 02-17-2007, 09:52 AM
02-17-2007, 10:03 AM
For those patients who you do not put on DHEA supp., have you observed any data as to how long term TRT impacted their natural DHEA levels?
02-17-2007, 10:18 AM
Dr. John... I think you may have answered my very question in this post in another thread... Here's what you wrote when someone asked the following question:
02-17-2007, 01:15 PM
02-18-2007, 10:06 AM
02-18-2007, 10:13 AM
02-18-2007, 12:28 PM
I have been on TRT since 1996 and I've never taken DHEA before. My present DHEA Sulfate was 312 (ref 110-370).
02-18-2007, 01:12 PM
02-18-2007, 02:04 PM
02-18-2007, 03:22 PM
I am using massive amount of 350mg daily, divided morning/evening.
I was able to raise my blood DHEAs from 118(apr05) (only) to 369(oct06).
During that time I was on 10grams of Androgel, no HCG.
Recently I made two changes, I use 1gram of Tcream instead of Androgel (same amount of testosterone) and also 250IU HCG (Novarel) every other day.
Should I make changes to my DHEA dose?
What is going to happen to my blood DHEA if I keep my current DHEA intake? How will this affect my Adrenals (overall)?
In the mean time my testicles are 80% back to pre-T state, libido suffers, getting dreams more often.
02-18-2007, 03:41 PM
02-18-2007, 03:51 PM
JanSz, any reason on the 250mg HCG EOD dosing schedule. I am currently on 100mg ED and was wondering if I should change that up. Also on tcream daily, so I never saw much of a 'schedule' for those not doing injections.
02-18-2007, 05:32 PM
and also are you senitive to perfumes, and gasoline fumes and lysol cans? This was a major discover and I went from mt ass dragging to ripping uip the gym in like 24 hours. i was taking taurine and msm to help with constpation but did when i looked back on lab tests and found out that excereting excessive amounts of sulfur amino acids taurine, cysteines and then it just hit me like a brick that perfumes drive me nuts and so does gasoline. I found like to molydebnum and how it is esssential for comverting your amino acids taurine and cysteine in to sulfur with out moly it converts to sulfites which resembles MSG toxicity and elevated glutamate levels in the brain all of which I had on my lab tests. Bacterial infections also produce sulfites as well as cleaming products such as clorax which I can smell miles away when some one is doing the laundry. People with PST problems have a hard time breaking down phenols and have chemical sensitivity to enviorment toxins. Look into PST detoxification and hopefully this might shed some light on things for you. If people have problems in sulfation pathways then you can not detoxify hormones meaning estrogen,enviormental toxins, thyroid, testosterone and so forth. HMMM maybe why mu DHEA-s levels where elevated 10 fold on salvia test because it could not detoxify the dhea so it just reciruclated around clogging up the cortisol receptors sites. Since reducing the MSM and lowering sulfur based foods my body has started to levels and reversing alot of the symptoms first thing that I noticed are stools are no longer light tan but darker brown which means bile production is starting to flow again and I am farting again (feel so good to releive that buily up gass). I t got so bad I did not fart for a week on end at a time..
02-18-2007, 05:56 PM
So much to learn. Only today I see this being discussed.
I am readying for my next (large) blood test sometime end of March or April.
Now this got me to wonder if with my decission on starting HCG I should not drop or lower my DHEA supplementation.
When I did my first DHEA test I was already taking 5grams Androgel for quite some time (but not HCG) and with that my DHEA=118 was low. Also, I did not do anything to adrenals or thyroid.
Other than HCG I am on 15mg Cortef and 2grains of Armour in my new routine.
I may change to that when I get used to poking myself that often.
Per my current understanding, I do not worry much about TotalT.
I just try to get FreeT and BAT into right place, all this because different people have different SHBG levels also Albumin levels, so comparing TT is less usefull.
02-18-2007, 06:26 PM
Now for the first time for 2.5 years I will have an accurate reading of Testosteorne, estrodial, free TTm BA testerone, shbg, dht, prolactin, dhea-s, pregnenolone, progesterone well having the creame on 3 hours priori the test as indicated and just minumal water intake. And all supplements where discountinued for 5 months. it was 5 months of suffering I will tell you that, but I wanted my system complemetly clean of everything so i can get a GOOD fresh reading.
02-18-2007, 07:51 PM
I do, however, feel I was incredibly stupid (and taxing on my adrenals) when I used to use A LOT of No-salt and go low sodium otherwise. (p/s ratio screwy). I also used to eat a lot of cassava, even the skins (another no-no). So they may have really wigged me out on top of everything else we talked about.
But I dont seem to react to sulfa or sulfur foods any worse.
02-18-2007, 07:52 PM
Because after 2 years i fouind out that my PST and Sulfation are under active which is causing a build up of reverse t-3 and hypothyroidism because sulfuration is where rt3 get detoxed !!
To tell you how low my sulfation system is I had an with some vinegar and an apple yestaerday and it set me off reall bad in severe shaking like a slight seizure, First night in almost 3 months I could not sleep and was pacing the floors all night long,
Children with PST deficiency sometimes have red ears, or red cheeks, dark circles under the eyes, tantrums, aggressive behaviors, defiant behaviors, increased laughing, hypotonia (low muscle tone), and stimming behaviors (spinning in circles,toe walking, lining things up),
02-18-2007, 09:28 PM
02-18-2007, 10:14 PM
Speaking of DHEA, Im curious as to how someone like me can have a higher DHEA-S level(520) than total T level(490).
Basically, how come Ive got such a massive amount of DHEA and so so T(especially for my age, 27)?
02-19-2007, 06:43 AM
02-19-2007, 10:31 AM
02-19-2007, 12:39 PM
02-19-2007, 12:55 PM
02-19-2007, 01:10 PM
02-19-2007, 01:33 PM
I take 150 mg of pure DIM and 500mg of TMG in the morning and 150mg of both at night. I just use Vitamin World DIM because i was the only DIM product I could find in my area. The only ingedient is DIM. I'm going to order another product but I want to ask Dr. John what he recommends. Dr. John told me to take DIM and TMG along with Arimidex because my 4-Hydroxyestrodiol. 4-Hydroxyestradiol along with 16e-Hydroxyestrone are harmful estrogen metabolite. Moreover, my liver must be a little clogged because my Total Es were originally high. Since the liver is responsible for excreting hormone metabolites, it would make sense that one needs to have efficient liver function to have a helathy estrogen/testosterone balance. One cannot assume they need to take DIM and TMG unless it is justified by lab results. My case is particular to my results.
Dr. John prescribed Pregnenolone Cream because it is more effective than pills and it has a calming effect (nerves, stress, focus). Also, he indicated that it re-establishes hormonal pathways.
02-19-2007, 01:49 PM
A cut and paste from this site.
Thyroid and adrenal dysfunction: the diagnosis and treatment of an endemic syndrome
Stage I is the stressed phase where, due to illness or other stress, the adrenals mobilise cortisol and DHEA (dehydroepiadrenosterone) to help the body deal with the problem. This is an acute phase; the stress settles and the adrenals settle down.
Stage II, resistance, is where it all goes on and on and the adrenals enlarge and increase their hormone output on a longer-term basis. This can go on for weeks, months, or even years but eventually they canít take it any more and start to regress into exhaustion, stage III. The degree of exhaustion is reflected in their output and balance of their two chief hormones, cortisol and DHEA, which is where the Adrenal Stress Index (ASI) comes in.
02-19-2007, 04:22 PM
Bloodwork done at quest
IGF-1 130 (126 - 382ng)
DHEA 520 (110 - 500)
T-4 FREE 1.5 (.8 - 1.8)
TSH 1.21 (.4 - 5.5)
ESTRADOIL...43 (10 - 50)
T3 FREE 317 (230 - 420)
TEST, TOTAL 490 (245 - 1836)
TEST FREE 18.9 (12 - 40)
TEST, %OF FREE .4 (.2 - .68)
02-19-2007, 04:24 PM
02-19-2007, 04:34 PM
Great stuff Phil thanks. Basically what may be going on is that Im in the beginning stage - Stage one. Im young.
Stressed? I am. Im type A to the bone. Hard charging. Its the only way i know how to be. Im starting Bikram Yoga to help me chill out.
I due believe that my over consumption to caffeine is a problem. Ive already started to work on that problem. Ive cut my dose in half, from 6 cups to 3 a day. I will be dropping that down to zero in the future. I have quit smoking completely as well. I was a social smoker prior. Been smoke free since the new years. I don't drink, havent in a long time, although I used to drink in the past.
Ive come along way though. I cringe to think what these bloodwork numbers were a few years ago.
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